Cheater looking for a solution

[Mr_Confused]

I need to gt through the holidays. I intend to start preparing my wife that it's coming. I need one more visit to the lawyer. I have drafted a list of assets and liabilities and intend to assure my wife she will be fine financially but here they way things are going to look post divorce. She can pick and choose what she wants, the house or the financial equivalent in $, etc. I am not tied to anything that is an object. Take what you want of $ but the division will be fair and equitable. I am in a no-fault state so there is nothing to hang over my head as just cause for anything more than half. I will make child support payments in accordance with state laws - on time and to the cent.

 

I want to work with a therapist. I want our child to be our priority once the emotional reaction subsides. I want find a way, making whatever concessions necessary, to minimize impact to her. I want her to feel loved and know our issues have nothing to do with her. I hope to avoid ever speaking bad about one another and making every reasonable accommodation so that there is continuity, love, and support so she can continue to thrive through high school years and into college knowing we are separate but proud and loving parents.

 

That is my goal, but I have never done this before and I am scared to death and don't know how to get over the fear of consequences that may come from putting my needs first. I just think of how many years I have done this and don't think I can do it for four or five more. I can't accept myself as a cheater and I can't live sexless and I can't re-love my wife like I once did. I think I wld be happier alone provided my child is ok.

 

It sucks but it seems the least bad option of e list of crappy options I am facing. I want to have integrity again and this is the only way I know how.

[whichwayisup]

Mr_Confused, I'm impressed. That is a good plan!

 

Change is hard and there is just isn't a way to know for sure how things will turn out down the road but the key is realizing that things are intolerable the way they are and it seems like they are for you. Have you considered that your wife might be willing to go to mc when you make it clear to her that divorce is the option? If so, will you go this route? If not, do you have future plans with your ow?

 

BTW, I'm a xow, (not by choice as he lied about his marital status) but I'd suggest that you take the ow out of the equation until you get divorced in fairness to all parties.

 

I agree with this. The OW doesn't need to be your shoulder, nor does she need to know details of your divorce etc.. Put her on hold and take time to sort things out, do counselling, family counselling and work with your (ex) wife to make the transition easier for everybody. The last thing you need is to still be heavily involved with the OW during this process.. You have nothing to 'give' to her in a sense, plus, your daughter has to come first.

[Breezy Trousers]

I need to gt through the holidays. I intend to start preparing my wife that it's coming. I need one more visit to the lawyer. I have drafted a list of assets and liabilities and intend to assure my wife she will be fine financially but here they way things are going to look post divorce. She can pick and choose what she wants, the house or the financial equivalent in $, etc. I am not tied to anything that is an object. Take what you want of $ but the division will be fair and equitable. I am in a no-fault state so there is nothing to hang over my head as just cause for anything more than half. I will make child support payments in accordance with state laws - on time and to the cent.

 

I want to work with a therapist. I want our child to be our priority once the emotional reaction subsides. I want find a way, making whatever concessions necessary, to minimize impact to her. I want her to feel loved and know our issues have nothing to do with her. I hope to avoid ever speaking bad about one another and making every reasonable accommodation so that there is continuity, love, and support so she can continue to thrive through high school years and into college knowing we are separate but proud and loving parents.

 

That is my goal, but I have never done this before and I am scared to death and don't know how to get over the fear of consequences that may come from putting my needs first. I just think of how many years I have done this and don't think I can do it for four or five more. I can't accept myself as a cheater and I can't live sexless and I can't re-love my wife like I once did. I think I wld be happier alone provided my child is ok.

 

It sucks but it seems the least bad option of e list of crappy options I am facing. I want to have integrity again and this is the only way I know how.

 

 

Finally!

 

I'm sad to hear that your marriage has ended but it's clear you're already out of it. You're acknowledging this.

 

It's history at this point but, for what it's worth ---

 

Your OW was very relevant to this conversation, IMO. You opened the door and invited her into your marriage, and she willingly stepped in. She will probably be your soft landing when you leave your wife and daughter to deal with the aftermath of this explosion. I'm not judging that, just pointing out the likely reality. (Now that you tell us she is religious, it's obvious she would be the one wearing the halo. ) ..... I felt it was unskillful to ignore some parts of reality -- OW -- while focusing on other parts -- your feelings and BS. You invited us to participate in a balanced conversation about this, so I felt she needed to be included. No ill will was intended, though.

 

Also, it's probably unfair to paint BS's with the same brush. I am a BS but have peered -- ok, stared -- over the other side of the fence. Many of us here have walked both sides of the fence, so we know that love fog makes us narcissistic and self-deluded .... That's what inspired my questions to you. Not the BS status. The two bastards who helped me the most while I was in love fog were "mean" to me, asking me all sorts of "nasty" questions, so now I try to return the favor to others. Thanks for being such a good sport about it.

 

Keep us posted.

[Lemon Drop]

Mr. Confused,

 

Glad to see you have a plan. You are obviously an intelligent, thoughtful man and I am glad you are not going to be one of those men who lives downstairs on ice cubes and olives howling at the moon once a year.

 

You are going to live fully and breathe fire into your formerly withered heart and soul and every single OW here will think you are a hero if you really do it!

 

I'm teasing you a little, but am glad to see you taking charge of your own life and getting what you need, which is love.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

always there to tell us overgrown, testosterone laden, one-minded males, how pathetic we are.

 

This man has lived through hell because he had a belief in keeping his family together, his finances and family's lifestyle intact.

 

His wife pulled the bait and switch, or the old "I just don't like sex, even though I orgasm" line.

 

I am so tired of these lectures this poor upstanding guy has endured from a bunch of women who can't for one second fathom a gorgeous spouse, who he loved lying beside him for 1800+days, telling him "Don't you dare touch me, I am no longer discussing this, but let's talk about our vacation in Maui or the summer home on the beach"....

 

Mr_Confused, I'm very sorry for your plight and the what looks like a sad ending, but please stop trying to answer these women who have no comprehension of what you have gone through. You sir have taken a much higher road then I and many men could.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Toodamnpragmatic]

That is some twisted logic you have and you pulled a bunch of stuff out of your ___ that wasn't even said or alluded to.

 

He doesn't deserve your pats on the back for his past behavior because he is just another man who cheated instead of directly confronting his wife with the problem and saying either fix it or I'm outta here. However if he enacts his plan, no doubt he will be better for it. So will his daughter.

 

to stop having sex or care about the marriage, beyond their daughter and her lifestyle is perfectly fine for you... Well now you're proud of him, because he'll pay to extricate himself from this untenable situation.

 

He explained the extent he went though, what he begged and hoped for, to have a semblance of a happy fulfilled life. And what did she do? Laughed, figuratively spat in his face and worried about the affect on their (most likely her) standard of living on a paltry 6 figures.....

 

BTW what exactly did I say that hasn't been said in this thread? Everything I alluded to has been written in various posts. And as for twisted logic, he begged for sex, bawled like a baby when he understood it was off the table and went 5 YEARS WITHOUT!!!!

Edited November 18, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Lemon Drop]

too Damn,

 

I'm not a man. Or did you just read this one page? We women cannot be all painted by the same brush, just like you men can't. Have a nice evening.

 

No kidding? Yes, I know all of this. My point was that if he wanted a change, he would not have to behead someone or invent a new religion to do it, they have this new thing now called divorce.

 

Why is everyone so worried about what his wife wants? Why put everyone through IC and MC? She doesn't want to go. So is he supposed to put his life in a mayonnaise jar (along with his nuts) and wait for her to tell him she wants to love him again? Some BS seem to forget there are reasons why WS wander, and yes, the BS is to blame. Before you impale and roast me, I've been the BS but never the WS, but let's just use our good brains. That horse is dead, everyone can stop beating it. Mr. Confused, you don't need anyone's permission, not even your wife's. Just do what will make YOU happy. A brain tumor could be around the corner and you will have wished you had lived. Trust me, I know this.

[bentnotbroken]

Maybe his d*ck wasn't worth the effort....just sayin. Since we are throwing out bullshyt...might as well go for the gold cowpie. Again, sarcasm intended.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

too Damn,

 

I'm not a man. Or did you just read this one page? We women cannot be all painted by the same brush, just like you men can't. Have a nice evening.

 

I didn't say all women..... I just noted that those coming down hardest on Mr_Confused are all women. Yes there is a female or two that have not lectured him, you being one. Sorry for the miscommunication.

[Mr_Confused]

Wow what a thread. Interesting to say the least. Praise or condemnation is fine, I cam here seeking neither.....just perspective. I got more than I bargained for.

 

I guess we all come with baggage, either as a disgruntled spouse, a betrayed spouse, or a wayward spouse. Funny how we see the same thing so differently. I don't know right from wrong or if there is such a thing anyway.

 

I know I married a woman believing she was the woman I would love forever. I believed she would love me in return....it didn't turn out that way. I tried to recap my experience the best I could absent of my opinion just the event as they unfolded. It strikes me as ironic our insistence on determining fault. Someone must be to blame, her or me. Someone did this. I don't see it that way, I don't think my wife does either. Yet people seem compelled to judge.....to blame....to determine who was wronged.

 

I view it as a failure by us.....as a couple. I don't blame her for losing interest in me sexually and she doesn't blame me for seeking intimacy outside our marriage, only outsiders do....and they do so with strong passion.

 

Sexless existence is terrible. Cheating is equally terrible. Both are a betrayal of a commitment we made in our marriage. My action are reprehensible, as are hers. Now.....I could spend a lot of energy trying to assess fault and come out on top of this debate, but to what end? She could do the same, and what would be gained? It doesn't change where we are, it doesn't change the outlook, it just enables us to feel righteous. We aren't that way, my wife and I.

 

I never started this thread to be right or wrong. I wanted perspective on how to get from here to place I call "happy". In trying to do so I have found support, I have been blasted for my actions, I have been annoyed, and found myself defending ,y actions. They are all side shows from the main act and objective.

 

I said it earlier in this thread I think, I certainly said it to my my wife, blame me if you want. I can carry that load it's no burden for me. I know who I am and my aim was never malicious. Cake eater, fog, cheater, deviant - label me whatever you want, these things don't define me. Call my wife whatever you want, I know she is a good person, a good woman, a good mother - personally I think she lost interest in me - that doesn't make her a bad person - he'll she probably wants sex but stuck with me because she is decent trying to do the supposed right thing.

 

All I sought here was opinions of what do you do from here. It's less about money and sex than just an average guy looking for the basic things that make humans content, a companion in life with whom you can be close, love, cherish, and share - in my opinion one of life greatest pleasures - sexual intimacy.

 

Now that may seem like a bunch of poetic bs, fog riddled rambling, or just plain old crap.......but that's really how I see it......

 

Post all the blame you want, to me or my wife, in the end none of it matters....it really serves no purpose towards the end most of us seek which is just happiness and being content with someone we love.

 

Sorry to ramble......maybe it's just the wine and long week of travel and work.

[bentnotbroken]

Sexless existence is terrible. Cheating is equally terrible. Both are a betrayal of a commitment we made in our marriage. My action are reprehensible, as are hers..

 

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[frozensprouts]

it sounds like you have decided to end things, and if that is what yu feel is best for all concerned, that is good...at least you will end your marraige before cheating again and causing even more heartache.

 

I expect is was a difficult decision to come to...do you think that you and your wife will be able to have an levelheaded discussion about how you will proceed from here? I hope so... it also sounds like you will be more than willing to present a "united front" for the sake of your daughter...that will make things much easier for her. Have you considered maybe getting some family counseling to make the split as easy as possible on your daughter? maybe it's too early on to think about that...

 

when my brother's first marriage ended , his kid took it pretty hard...he and his soon to be ex sat down together and came up with a plan that they felt would make it as easy as possible on their kids...family counseling helped them get through some tough spots, and the two of them also were willing to "give and take" , as this would make it less stressful for their kids.

 

After the divorce was final, they didn't speak except if there were kid related issues to deal with, but, over time, that changed and they have become more friendly...they atended my nephews graduation togther, which was really good for him- they were both there and able to be friendly to each other.

 

I hope for all of you, that you are able to end up that way yourselves, even if you don't stay together

[Breezy Trousers]

Wow what a thread. Interesting to say the least. Praise or condemnation is fine, I cam here seeking neither.....just perspective. I got more than I bargained for.

 

I guess we all come with baggage, either as a disgruntled spouse, a betrayed spouse, or a wayward spouse. Funny how we see the same thing so differently. I don't know right from wrong or if there is such a thing anyway.

 

I know I married a woman believing she was the woman I would love forever. I believed she would love me in return....it didn't turn out that way. I tried to recap my experience the best I could absent of my opinion just the event as they unfolded. It strikes me as ironic our insistence on determining fault. Someone must be to blame, her or me. Someone did this. I don't see it that way, I don't think my wife does either. Yet people seem compelled to judge.....to blame....to determine who was wronged.

 

I view it as a failure by us.....as a couple. I don't blame her for losing interest in me sexually and she doesn't blame me for seeking intimacy outside our marriage, only outsiders do....and they do so with strong passion.

 

Sexless existence is terrible. Cheating is equally terrible. Both are a betrayal of a commitment we made in our marriage. My action are reprehensible, as are hers. Now.....I could spend a lot of energy trying to assess fault and come out on top of this debate, but to what end? She could do the same, and what would be gained? It doesn't change where we are, it doesn't change the outlook, it just enables us to feel righteous. We aren't that way, my wife and I.

 

I never started this thread to be right or wrong. I wanted perspective on how to get from here to place I call "happy". In trying to do so I have found support, I have been blasted for my actions, I have been annoyed, and found myself defending ,y actions. They are all side shows from the main act and objective.

 

I said it earlier in this thread I think, I certainly said it to my my wife, blame me if you want. I can carry that load it's no burden for me. I know who I am and my aim was never malicious. Cake eater, fog, cheater, deviant - label me whatever you want, these things don't define me. Call my wife whatever you want, I know she is a good person, a good woman, a good mother - personally I think she lost interest in me - that doesn't make her a bad person - he'll she probably wants sex but stuck with me because she is decent trying to do the supposed right thing.

 

All I sought here was opinions of what do you do from here. It's less about money and sex than just an average guy looking for the basic things that make humans content, a companion in life with whom you can be close, love, cherish, and share - in my opinion one of life greatest pleasures - sexual intimacy.

 

Now that may seem like a bunch of poetic bs, fog riddled rambling, or just plain old crap.......but that's really how I see it......

 

Post all the blame you want, to me or my wife, in the end none of it matters....it really serves no purpose towards the end most of us seek which is just happiness and being content with someone we love.

 

Sorry to ramble......maybe it's just the wine and long week of travel and work.

 

I don't blame anyone here. Human beings are conflicted so we get ourselves in messy situations. It happens and is understandable. Blaming people just allows us to avoid looking more deeply at ourselves.

 

I do hear you blaming your wife -- very normal - but putting your OW on a pedestal. That could be dangerous.

 

Some thoughts --

 

You're in the pink cloud of love fog right now. You need to acknowledge that it's got to be a huge testosterone rush to play the knight in shining armor to her single-mom-with-2 kids scenario (damsel in distress). (I don't care how much money she's making. She's making a lot less than you and is a single mom with two kids on that income.) There's always got to be a halo-wearing madonna for every horn-wearing whore in these scenarios .....OW will clearly benefit from her association from you, love or not ..... Also, you've had plenty of years to "learn" to judge your wife but comparatively little time to "learn" to judge your new partner. That's part of her attraction right now -- not her but your lack of judgment and openness. Affairs really do open our hearts in a huge way, which is why they are so intoxicating, but all affairs must eventually end or turn into real relationship. Real relationship always involves navigating judgment of some kind..... Your OW may be religious but we all know that remorseful talk is easy and cheap. Consistent action shows us the true inner landscape of people...... Be careful not to flatter yourself with self talk that you must be very special to OW for her to cross her religious boundaries for you. Telling ourselves self-flattering stories about AP's actions toward us is a real danger in affairs. I'm not suggesting you are here, just pointing out the danger.

 

You are going to want to protect "her" (OW) from comments like this. In truth, it's not "her" you are protecting but your attachment to love fog. It's nearly impossible to see love fog when you're in it, even if you repeatedly acknowledge its existence to yourself. I'm speaking from direct experience here.

 

It's great your proposed actions are in alignment with your values. I'm happy for you in that regard. I still felt it necessary to add this, though. Take it or leave it, of course.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You're a better man then me. I would/could not be so level headed (and certainly could not go 5 years without). I commend you and hope the best for you. I still wonder if one attempt at MC, with the hope that it leads to her getting IC should not be pursued. If it does not save the marriage, I hope it helps her. There is a lot of resentment (and mostly from you and I expect it) that needs to be discussed somewhere.

 

Finally as to the OW. Nothing you have written indicates a fog. You have feelings for her and that is wonderful, you deserve this after 5 YEARS!!!!! You've been honest in describing a woman you have a great fondness for and nothing more. I also get offended that some here seem resentful that you may have a soft landing should you divorce. YOU DESERVE IT!!!!!

 

Then I read this on another thread and am flabbergasted....

 

"Married 15 years, I'm 46 and she is 42.

Lots of sex for the first 5 years ( 4 - 6 times per week)

none for the last 11 years - not once since December 31st 1999.

Just separated a few months ago. Loved her dearly but finally couldn't live without intimacy anymore - saddest day of my life when i left."

 

This coming from a poster (me) who complains about bi-weekly or less sex. I guess I should consider myself a lucky one?

 

Again I wish the best for you.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Mr_Confused]

You're in the pink cloud of love fog right now. You need to acknowledge that it's got to be a huge testosterone rush to play the knight in shining armor to her single-mom-with-2 kids scenario (damsel in distress). (I don't care how much money she's making. She's making a lot less than you and is a single mom with two kids on that income.) There's always got to be a halo-wearing madonna for every horn-wearing whore in these scenarios .....OW will clearly benefit from her association from you, love or not ..... Also, you've had plenty of years to "learn" to judge your wife but comparatively little time to "learn" to judge your new partner. That's part of her attraction right now -- not her but your lack of judgment and openness. Affairs really do open our hearts in a huge way, which is why they are so intoxicating, but all affairs must eventually end or turn into real relationship. Real relationship always involves navigating judgment of some kind..... Your OW may be religious but we all know that remorseful talk is easy and cheap. Consistent action shows us the true inner landscape of people...... Be careful not to flatter yourself with self talk that you must be very special to OW for her to cross her religious boundaries for you. Telling ourselves self-flattering stories about AP's actions toward us is a real danger in affairs. I'm not suggesting you are here, just pointing out the danger.

 

You are going to want to protect "her" (OW) from comments like this. In truth, it's not "her" you are protecting but your attachment to love fog. It's nearly impossible to see love fog when you're in it, even if you repeatedly acknowledge its existence to yourself. I'm speaking from direct experience here.

 

It's great your proposed actions are in alignment with your values. I'm happy for you in that regard. I still felt it necessary to add this, though. Take it or leave it, of course.

 

Ooooh the fog . You know I believe in fog. One thing we never discussed is the duration of my affair - which is ~2years. So how long does fog last? I don't know. I don't know when the euphoria was high I governed myself - assuming it was fog - but it has never passed. How long is it fog, and when does it just become the way it is?

 

I do have to chuckle about the comment of my "damsel in distress". My OW is in no distress. She is a fully empowered, successful, women in charge. I'm not attracted to "distress". She is 6' of kick ass, she whips boys asses on a regular basis in the corporate world. Now, I may be infatuated with her confidence and self assured nature, but I am no knight in shining armor. She is my savior, not vice versa. I'm not high on the sense being her hero, she is mine.

 

My fog, the way I see it, was living so long convincing myself that this is what a marriage is, a concession, compromise, settling, honoring commitment at the expense of self actualization and happiness. I adopted a different view years ago - it was a viewpoint that marriage is symbiotic relationship - it's give and take. It's not give and give. It's mutually beneficial. I'm not a servant to my wife, I am a servant and a beneficiary or her servitude. If there is no benefit there is no purpose.

 

My child, that is obligation. It's not required to be mutually beneficial - mine is - but my commitment to her has no bounds until adulthood. I will stand by her through anything, I will never fail her, I will never abandon her - I have an unconditional obligation as her father. She is what kept me in this marriage.

 

Regarding her crossing her religious boundaries, that's not a source of validation of her feelings for me, it's a source of guilt and remorse that I am part of it. There is no pride in being part of what makes someone compromise their values. I am ashamed of that.

[carrie999]

I am having an affair.

 

It started as perhaps a poor method to deal with my sexless marriage (and by sexless I mean ZERO sex going on year 5).

 

It's been months since my wife discovered the affair, we don't discuss it and it has not ended, we just continue to co-exist like amicable roommates.

 

What would you do?

 

End your marriage. It's not fair to either of you to keep playing this game, whether it's for the kids or financial reasons.

 

Five years without intimacy indicates a problem that probably isn't going to be fixed, unless there is a health issue you haven't mentioned.

[Steadfast]

Other than writing drawn out commentary about how no one is at fault and everyone's actions are understandable, what are you trying to achieve here? Have you read anything that's enlightened you? Changed your focus? By my count, you've politely discarded the nay and embraced the yay.

 

That basically makes you like everyone else who's living a lie.

 

IMO, there are radically big chunks of information missing here, and more than a few eyebrow raisers. Your 'gorgeous', loving, understanding but sexless wife for one. I can all but promise that unless she has a medical condition that's keeping her from being intimate, then she is. With someone. And your OW? No matter how much glitter you toss in her makeup kit, she's a home wrecker. Fact: decent women DO NOT engage in long (or short) term affairs with married men. You may brush that off as closed-minded and judgmental, but there are definitions for decency. Look it up.

 

I see no relationship between fidelity and infidelity and how good of a parent you are.

 

I cut and pasted this from another topic, because I feel it illustrates your lack of judgement. One would need (at least) three-Master's to not understand the long term, devastating effects of infidelity on children.

 

I get the feeling you're comfortable painting life with a wide brush.

[Mr_Confused]

steadfast - I'm not comfortable, in fact I am here because I am uncomfortable.

 

I want out of my marriage and have come here and elsewhere to see if I am overlooking anything.

 

You look one small excerpt from me posting on infidelity and being a good parent and did not represent the point of my post.

 

The point was that I think there are terrible faithful parents, and good parents in affair and that being faithful or not, by itself is not correlated to how good of a parent a person is.

 

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, just be fair in how you represent my perspective.

[Steadfast]

The point was that I think there are terrible faithful parents, and good parents in affair and that being faithful or not, by itself is not correlated to how good of a parent a person is.

 

The question didn't ask if being faithful automatically makes you a good parent. That's a cop out and you know it. And, after reading your response, I think I represented your angle on the subject accurately. You disagree, but you have to, don't you? Therein lies my point. If one lays with the dogs, he can't be sensitive to being told he smells like one.

 

And yeah, you're missing a lot but after reading your posts, it seems you are choosing to miss them. The wrongs are obvious...like trying to hide a basketball in your bed. Speaking of that, you've made yours. Deal with it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

time to pile on..... Make sure he knows there is no excuse for his actions.....

 

Mr_Confused, as a male, who has never cheated or been cheated upon, I may either have no business saying what I do or be in the best position to make my points (will let others decide), but will reiterate that I never wish to be in your position, but know that if I was, I could never handle it as well as you have and been so understanding and magnanimous about it. Yes, money, family, daughter, lifestyle, family obligations and societal repercussions all play a part in how this is playing out.

 

I am 95% sure you have been honest and open as to what you wrote and am amazed you still honour and respect your wife, that you have not denigrated her and stated anything negative outside NO SEX FOR 5 YEARS. Yet that is not enough for some, as they are convinced that you are to blame for it and have not come clean.

 

Finally you have been very forthcoming and patient in answering each and every female who has challenged you, and interestingly have not at all acknowledged or answered a single poster who has supported (or understood) your actions. In addition when your spouse confronted you, you did not hide, came clean and were confused and bothered at her reaction, expecting more or hoping that it would result in that deep discussion that you've needed for 5 years.

 

That to me again shows the character in which you've handled the situation.

[Steadfast]

time to pile on..... Make sure he knows there is no excuse for his actions.....

 

There are plenty of excuses for cheating prag...just no good ones. What's the old saying about two wrong's not making a right? It is true. The best way out of a hole is straight up; not sideways or down. Cheating on your spouse -even cloaked under the umbrella of 'good intentions'- is not justifiable.

 

Many try...so hard, and for so long they begin to believe the lie. And that's when you know you're in deep; when wrong and right become 'subjective.'

 

This poster, his wife and family are not hopeless, but keep adding subjective reasoning and selfishness into the equation and they someday will be.

[StoneCold]

What's the old saying about two wrong's not making a right? It is true.

 

 

It depends what angle you look at it from and how "right" is defined

[Mr_Confused]

Well i am not sure i can be any clearer....but about every third post i guess i shld reiterate:

 

My affair was erong....no affair is justified...my actions are inexcusible and i am soley responsible for - and accept - the consequences.

 

Having said that i did not post here for reassurance or support. There are a handful of people whose judgment matters to me and they arent on this board.

 

What i do value is your opinion of how to resolve this issue. Again....for simplicity sake i am perfectly fin with being the wrong doer in everything troubling my marriage. Fault is irrelevant both in the context of moving forward and in my state laws. My wife and i concur and dont blame each other - but perhaps that is too much to ask, especially from a betrayed spouse.

 

I dnt mind blaming me if it serve a respo.der some value....but if you could also offer thoughts on getting out of this mess, recognizong the issues i tried to summarize, it wld be much more valuable.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Well i am not sure i can be any clearer....but about every third post i guess i shld reiterate:

 

My affair was erong....no affair is justified...my actions are inexcusible and i am soley responsible for - and accept - the consequences.

 

Having said that i did not post here for reassurance or support. There are a handful of people whose judgment matters to me and they arent on this board.

 

What i do value is your opinion of how to resolve this issue. Again....for simplicity sake i am perfectly fin with being the wrong doer in everything troubling my marriage. Fault is irrelevant both in the context of moving forward and in my state laws. My wife and i concur and dont blame each other - but perhaps that is too much to ask, especially from a betrayed spouse.

 

I dnt mind blaming me if it serve a respo.der some value....but if you could also offer thoughts on getting out of this mess, recognizong the issues i tried to summarize, it wld be much more valuable.

 

Give MC a chance and see if she just goes through the motions. Discuss IC, demand it over and over, and ask HER what she wants from you, not monetarily. And see a lawyer.

 

Again quit beating yourself up. You made the choice to have an affair, because you were pushed into it and wanted to preserve your family, your daughter, your community (friends and family) standing and yes YOUR MONEY.

 

Your wife would have been happy to stick her head in the stand for years to come, if she was not told something MAY BE happening.

 

You too could have sloughed it off and told her she was wrong or that whatever she heard was nothing more then malicious gossip.

 

Even now your wife may be okay with the affair and tell others that they were worng and all is well. Doesn't answer the problem though.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Mr_Confused]

Thanks TDP.

 

I read a thread oyu started long ago on this sexless topic:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253335

 

Guess it too old to reply, but I think it sort of summarized hte divde that exists regarding sexless marriage and how people feel one should respond to it. The common stance is logical - fix it or get out.

 

I agree it is the honorable thing to do. I know where my problem arose is that my marriage is more than my relationship with my wife - obviously that's the core of it, but it is also a family, a financial arrangement, a circle of friends and extended family.

 

Now I understand a BS and how strong their sentiments are with respect tot an affair - makes perfect sense. To be wronged to such an extent is surely terrible. I really think this is why my wife was so seemingly indifferent about my affair - she understand why. Reasons don't make it right - I fully get it - but she knows why. I think she recognizes if it weren't an affair the alternatives are a divorce OR I continue to live sexless which I made abundantly clear along the way was not a life I was willing to live.

 

So, here's the rub, and where I will certainly ruffle feathers. Two wrongs don't make a right - I'll just get that out of the way. However, in my bitterness about all of this crap I have been through I do feel she broke our vows. She refused, literally, to "love and cherish me". I chose to not "forsake all others". So how can I be more wrong. I'm not declaring to be right, but I'm not taking any blame either.

 

Now regarding your advice, I do think we need a therapist, but I want one to help guide us through a divorce. I want someone that deals with this stuff on a regular basis to help us recognize what went wrong, learn from it to prevent repeating it in our next relationship, try to preserve some semblance of a friendship, and lastly - and most importantly - do whatever we must through our divorce to make it as easy as possible for our daughter - the ONLY innocent victim in any of this.

 

There is no going back for me. My affair may be love, it may be fog, we can call it whatever we want - but what it IS unquestionably to me is proof that there are kind, attractive, intelligent, and caring people with whom I can enjoy my time and that hold promise for something much better than what I have been through for the better part of a decade.

 

Rake me over the coals repeatedly. This is not about sex. I can get laid. Hell, I have plenty of $ and could covertly hire the hottest escorts if my ambition was to run around cramming my manhood in sexy and willing women. I don't want that, I just want a decent woman with whom I can connect emotionally and physically and I know I can get it. I just can't find the desire or belief that inspires me to invest more time and energy going to back to the same dry well - my marriage - and sending the bucket down in hopes it will finally return with water. I just can't.....