Engaged to somone who is not pretty...to me

[CarrieT]

OP, I am in a very similar situation as you - however I am just beginning my relationship; almost two months now.

 

I am in my late 40s and have started dating a man who is everything I have ever wanted in a partner. I wake every day incredulous at the amazing connection we have with our intellectual interests and growing emotional bond.

 

And I know that other women find him attractive but physically, he does nothing for me. When we have sex, I mostly close my eyes to not see his face.

 

But I am pushing on and trying to build something because I know that ultimately, a relationship is not about looks. I am building a relationship on all the other factors that are more important to me -- and I know that as we age, we lose our looks anyway.

 

I'm not sure if this helps you at all, but I do want you to know that you are not alone.

[moontiger]

Hello Moontiger,

Thank you for your response and for your opinion.

Some of what you have written sounded very familiar to me......but overall I'd say that i am very different from your ex-boyfriend

 

To clarify, he was my ex-fiance.

 

There are some differences. I am not saying that your physical dissatisfaction with your fiancee comes from the same source as my ex-fiance's did. However, when I read your thread, the fundamental situation of repeated thoughts about your fiancee's lack of physical attraction to you seemed identical, even if the underlying cause of dissatisfaction was different.

 

Basically you keep looking at her, and thinking about how she's such a great wonderful amazing person, but you'd love her more and be happy if only she were physically different. That's what was going on between my ex and me.

 

He had some other unrelated issues, and they manifested in his thinking that if only he could change the way I looked he would be happy. In your case other posters have suggested a similar dynamic.

 

I also don't think that if we break up with my fiancee we will feel about each other the way you're feeling about your ex-boyfriend, sorry to say that.

 

I don't know your fiancee personally. However, most broken relationships/engagements follow a standard template. The dumpee hurts. The dumpee gets angry, remembers mostly the bad things, and feels increasingly negative toward the dumper. The dumpee gets over the dumper. The dumpee eventually meets someone who likes them better, and is glad the dumper left. The odds are your fiancee will follow the same pattern, simply because the pattern is universal.

 

If I understand correctly you say that she will feel no anger or resentment toward you if you leave. I doubt that. If she knew your true feelings about her face and body, and that you were posting threads on Internet forums titled "Engaged to someone who is not pretty...to me," I suspect that she would not remember you with happiness and light, no matter how many good times you've had together. In fact, the more good times you had, and the better/longer/more committed the relationship, the more of a betrayal it will seem like when you suddenly tell her you were never happy and leave.

 

Although you say you have never dishonestly said sweet words to her, you stayed five years with her, proposed to her, and talked about children with her. Whether or not you ever told her she was pretty doesn't matter much, as most people would interpret your actions as the ultimate statement that their partner loved them and was satisfied with them, inside and out. And most people (especially thirtysomething women who hope for kids) would feel pretty upset and angry and betrayed if they suddenly find that wasn't ever the case, and that they wasted five years of their life with someone who privately was feeling lukewarm and ambivalent about them.

 

And yes, I think probably she will look back and realize that you did her a huge favor.

 

Ultimately, she will find someone who doesn't look at her and wish he were with a prettier woman. And she will realize what she was missing with you. When she has sex with him she will think to herself how lousy sex was with a man who was forever straining to hide his dissatisfaction with her body. And she will feel like she was dead, and now she is alive again.

 

Here is my experience--being in a relationship with a partner who is chronically dissatisfied and ambivalent about you is miserable. But it is a low-grade misery, like being in a room with a bad smell in it. If you are in the room for a long time, you get used to it and stop noticing it. It's only when you leave and go into a room with a good smell that you realize how bad the first room smelled, and what a joy it is to breathe again.

 

So, don't worry about your ex--she will (eventually) be fine.

 

If you are for whatever reason unable to appreciate your partner, despite her good qualities and your best effort, then free her to find someone who does. This isn't something unique to physical attraction, it is a general statement. And it is a statement coming from not from a dumper, but from me, who was the one left behind. I wish my ex had thought I was beautiful. But he did not, and he would never have been satisfied with me. And so no matter how much loneliness and pain I have suffered since he left, I am glad that he left, and I only wish that he had left far earlier.

 

or put it differently, it is enough sometimes...but there are moments where it's not...and unfortunately those come often.....too often to live a normal comforable life without having to think about it every second day.

 

Suppose that it were your mother, or your sister, engaged to a man who wrote these things about her--"My fiancee is a nice person, but she just isn't pretty...she's chubby and her hair is greasy and I can't stand looking at her because it makes her depressed," what you would tell her?

 

I think you should leave her ASAP. Few women would want to stay in a relationship where their partner felt this way about them for a prolonged time.

 

But I also think this. You may change women and meet someone thinner and prettier.

 

But you are going to remain you, and if you don't work on solving whatever commitment or emotional issues have caused you to focus on perceived ugliness in someone you yourself say is a wonderful woman (and not ugly), then this same thing is just going to happen again.

Edited November 18, 2011 by moontiger

[Eternal Sunshine]

If I was in her situation, I would want my SO to sit me down and openly tell me about it. I wouldn't mind even if he was brutal. That would help me make an informed decision in wherever I want to continue. Hints don't really work because you probably gave her many "positive" hints as well and it all gets muddled.

 

Tell her that you lack physical attraction and it's making you doubt the relationship and see what she says. She deserves honesty so that she can move on and find someone who is truly in love with her.

[justmeRightnow]

If I was in her situation, I would want my SO to sit me down and openly tell me about it. I wouldn't mind even if he was brutal. That would help me make an informed decision in wherever I want to continue. Hints don't really work because you probably gave her many "positive" hints as well and it all gets muddled.

 

Tell her that you lack physical attraction and it's making you doubt the relationship and see what she says. She deserves honesty so that she can move on and find someone who is truly in love with her.

 

Eternal Sunshine....but I did say exactly that a few times..already. anytime we had a crisis in regards to marriage or future..anytime I needed to explain my hesitations...I said it in very clear terms....

and my fiancee responded that nothing in life is ideal...other times she felt really unhappy and devastated...we both felt that way...as soon as I said it...and as soon as she hurt it....we felt both numb....unhappy...and somehow when I sad those things none of us had the energy, the will or the urge to say: okay, we need to finish here....instead as the day went by we tried to find a way to be together again...to be happy....and then it would be fine.....for a few weeks..or sometimes longer....

but then it would come back again...

 

..when I said those things...as soon as they were out...I somehow felt that it was not completely true either.....that as much as they were true, they were also wrong..those words....and I suddenly could not see her that way i just saw her 5 minutes ago.....an emotional rollercoaster that I never wanted to be part of..but which i obviously created myself. This is where the muddling comes into play....as you speak about it. And none of the two feelings were lies....both seemed to co-exist and contradict each other.....I am conflicted person...it's obvious from anything I have said here thus far.........and hence I have come here to seek help help and advice ...

it seems that somehow this message gets lost....that readers sometimes simplify what I have tried to describe in ways which don't feel right or truthful in regards to what the situation might be.

as I said, it's not that simple...it's not either or.....and that's why it's a mess. If it was easy, if it was clear and I would know it to be true, I would made the decision. Some posters suggested above that I can't make decisions, that i am afraid of making decisions, insecurity etc. This might be true in this very instance..but I would not say that it's been true in my life at all.....in fact quite the opposite. I did not use to have problems with decision-making.....and with doing things which were different from others....

I feel that selfishness and confidence played a big part of that too...when you are selfish and confidente you sort of do what you want to do...or what your instinct tells you to do.....now I still have these instincts but probably don't have the selfishness to do what's right for me?.....but then again, non-selfishness can be just a clowd screen for a much bigger selfishness.....it's convoluted!

 

I am realizing that this whole thing is a process of coming to understand it...in fact, that's it's a questoin of emotional adjustment...or dettachment if you will. and people who see simple solutions to this probably don't understand this aspect...though they are not necessarily wrong in the ultimate solution which they propose.

 

this has become clear to me now.....as I am coming back to these pages....

Edited November 18, 2011 by justmeRightnow

[Eternal Sunshine]

I do sympathize with you. I am in a similar situation but on the other side of the coin. I am actually not quite sure what is what anymore. Sorry to vent but I understand feeling conflicted. I have been contemplating leaving my relationship a lot. My emotions on this decision swing wildly from day to day, sometimes hour to hour. I question my own sanity.

 

My problem is primarily that my current relationship doesn't match up to my view of what a relationship should be (a highly passionate connection where you want to rip your partner's clothes off most of the time). I know he doesn't feel that way about me. When questioned directly, he denies not being physically attracted and says that he has low sex drive but is happy with our sex life. He is not a liar (unless perhaps he is lying to himself - I suggested that too and he denied). He makes little comments on my appearance (sometimes positive, sometimes negative). About how it wasn't love at first sight for him etc. How I am closer to his ideal personality match than his ideal physical match (ouch). Yet he never considered leaving and tells me that he is in love with me all the time. Whenever I considered leaving (a few times I have told him) - he cries and begs. He is jealous of my exs to the point of having tears in his eyes when I mention them. He doesn't want me talking about them at all in any context. Even though we live together, he takes me on little date nights couple of times a week, together with romantic candlelit dinners. He holds my hand, gives me little kisses and hugs all the time.

 

And yet....I would often go to bed wearing my sexiest nightie and he would fail to notice and roll over and go to sleep. I shed few tears each time That part really sucks. I suggested a few times that we have more of a best friends or brother/sister relationship, mostly to gauge his reaction. He seemed genuinely shocked and hurt and said that he doesn't feel that way. And yet, he said once that when he was single, he masturbated to porn every day (not indicative of a general low sex drive).

 

I would be willing to deal with low sex drive but not with someone who is not physically attracted to me. Thus I am in conflict and it's hard for me to know what to do. He seems on edge and actually has nightmares of me leaving him. He woke up about 3 times in the middle of the night even though I was right beside him with such nightmares.

 

I partly feel pressured to make the decision now because we are about to buy non-refundable tickets for Europe trip that we are going on in 9 months time. This implies that we will be together in 9 months and I am just so conflicted. I am also not in a financial situation to be able to throw few thousands of dollars away...so I keep making little excuses to delay buying the tickets.

 

Ugh sorry to thread jack

[Ruby_shoes]

Eternal Sunshine....but I did say exactly that a few times..already. anytime we had a crisis in regards to marriage or future..anytime I needed to explain my hesitations...I said it in very clear terms....

and my fiancee responded that nothing in life is ideal...other times she felt really unhappy and devastated...we both felt that way...as soon as I said it...and as soon as she hurt it....we felt both numb....unhappy...and somehow when I sad those things none of us had the energy, the will or the urge to say: okay, we need to finish here....instead as the day went by we tried to find a way to be together again...to be happy....and then it would be fine.....for a few weeks..or sometimes longer....

but then it would come back again...

 

..when I said those things...as soon as they were out...I somehow felt that it was not completely true either.....that as much as they were true, they were also wrong..those words....and I suddenly could not see her that way i just saw her 5 minutes ago.....an emotional rollercoaster that I never wanted to be part of..but which i obviously created myself. This is where the muddling comes into play....as you speak about it. And none of the two feelings were lies....both seemed to co-exist and contradict each other.....I am conflicted person...it's obvious from anything I have said here thus far.........and hence I have come here to seek help help and advice ...

it seems that somehow this message gets lost....that readers sometimes simplify what I have tried to describe in ways which don't feel right or truthful in regards to what the situation might be.

as I said, it's not that simple...it's not either or.....and that's why it's a mess. If it was easy, if it was clear and I would know it to be true, I would made the decision. Some posters suggested above that I can't make decisions, that i am afraid of making decisions, insecurity etc. This might be true in this very instance..but I would not say that it's been true in my life at all.....in fact quite the opposite. I did not use to have problems with decision-making.....and with doing things which were different from others....

I feel that selfishness and confidence played a big part of that too...when you are selfish and confidente you sort of do what you want to do...or what your instinct tells you to do.....now I still have these instincts but probably don't have the selfishness to do what's right for me?.....but then again, non-selfishness can be just a clowd screen for a much bigger selfishness.....it's convoluted!

 

I am realizing that this whole thing is a process of coming to understand it...in fact, that's it's a questoin of emotional adjustment...or dettachment if you will. and people who see simple solutions to this probably don't understand this aspect...though they are not necessarily wrong in the ultimate solution which they propose.

 

this has become clear to me now.....as I am coming back to these pages....

 

JMRN have you been to IC? It's possible to generally feel one thing (such as unafraid of commitment) yet when faced with it to start seeking reasons to not commit - that's what people do, it's all subconscious (just to use as the commitment thing as an example). For the answers you really have to dig around inside. Hold the thoughts in your mind a little and explore them.

 

You say you feel one way and when you say it out loud you feel another - well this is very common and I have done it too! Conflicting feelings and ambivelance need exploration. Maybe you could have a break and see how you feel on your own for a bit? You'd have to be comfortable with her saying she wouldn't wait if you did but it sounds like some time alone would help? To let your feelings level out and explore them by yourself or see a therapist for a few sessions as they are trained to help you explore underlying subconscious fears.

[westrock]

I lost my parents to an ugly disease....

 

How old were you when you lost each of your parents?

 

How did you feel about that at the time?

 

How do you feel about that now?

 

 

..when I said those things...as soon as they were out...I somehow felt that it was not completely true either.....that as much as they were true, they were also wrong..those words....and I suddenly could not see her that way i just saw her 5 minutes ago.....an emotional rollercoaster that I never wanted to be part of..but which i obviously created myself. This is where the muddling comes into play....as you speak about it. And none of the two feelings were lies....both seemed to co-exist and contradict each other.....I am conflicted person...it's obvious from anything I have said here thus far.........and hence I have come here to seek help help and advice ...

 

At the moment, no matter which decision (stay or leave) you make it will cause emotional pain for you. The harder you try to figure out what to do, the more your subconscious will act as a self-defence mechanism and not allow you to proceed either way. It is too painful because you have unresolved emotional issues from your past that you are not acknowledging or addressing. Either choice (stay or leave) that you consider triggers that unresolved emotional pain. As I said before, the issue regarding her face is not the real issue but a subconscious way to allow you to avoid facing the pain being triggered by your unresolved emotional issues. What this means is that you will not be able to sort this out on your own because your subconscious simply won't allow it.

 

Up to now, "avoidance" has been your subconscious' least painful choice of action because making any of the alternative choices would trigger your unresolved emotional issues and cause too much emotional pain for you.

 

As an analogy, when we are faced with a situation where we sense potential physical danger, our adrenalin kicks in and triggers our fight-flight response system -- your subsconscious makes a choice to either stay and fight the source of the danger, or you take flight to get out of there to avoid the danger... Avoidance is the emotional equivalent of the flight response.

 

However, now you are discovering that even "avoidance" is causing you emotional pain too and it is getting more painful as time goes by.

 

You are at a turning point in your life. This is where you have to decide to grow up emotionally and face your past unresolved issues. You have to decide, do you want to continue going down your current path, that is only going to get more painful each day, or do you want to finally face your past unresolved feelings? This is where instead of choosing avoidance (ie. the flight response) you choose to stay and face your unresolved emotional issues (ie. fight response).

 

Posting here and sharing your story is a great start down the path of facing your unresolved issues and I hope you keep posting. You have received a lot of great replies and good advice here from a lot of experienced posters, but as I said in one of my previous posts, it will only get you so far. You need professional therapy from a psychologist to help you heal the pain triggered by your unresolved emotional issues from your past which in turn will help you resolve the conflict you are dealing with now. Until you reach a breaking point where you are prepared to try again with professional therapy, you will not be able to sort out your conflict on your own.

Edited November 18, 2011 by westrock

[justmeRightnow]

Eternal Sunshine,

 

some of what you're saying about your relationship reminds me truly of the mess I am in. As you say, it's the wild swings of moods that are pretty rough....difficult to control that..especially when you don't know what is..and what is not anymore. For people who have not experienced it it's difficult to explain....for those who have there's nothing what needs to be said more.

I used to be a guy who saw things pretty black and white in my life...and felt that I could navigate it well..was probably pretty critical to those who could not, were "lost". Now I am lost....and life has taught me a lesson in this way. It happens to the best, as some would say:)....or put it differenty, it probably is likely to happen to those who are so unaware that it could happen. I definitely was unaware of it.

 

 

But to your problem: the things you are saying...on some level they don't make sense..they seem to be a bit contradictory...the way you describe your boyfriend and your relationship. Some of the things just don't go together (low sex drive but mastrubating frequently...to point this out....this to me makes little sense..if he mastrubated in the past and doesn't do it now..he might have lost his sex drive...if he still keeps doing it..then the low sex drive to me cannot be true...IMHO...also having low sex drive but being horribly jelaous of your ex..somehow it doesn't make sense in my world.....). If I take all your words seriously, as that's what I am trying to do, I'd say you're in a pretty confusing situation. The truth is, and that's the same problem with me, that somewhere there you're making a mistake in your judgement..... or you are not seeing certain things properly.....that's why it's become muddled.....seems to me.So you talking about it and people telling what they think, it might be helpful!

 

The story that I am hearing from you though seems not so bad at all to me....far from it. For one, if he wakes up and has those nightmares....I had such nightmares too...and I was very "physically" in love with that person....something you might be fearing he's not.....jelously...

Anytime I was jelous it was with a women whose "body" I wanted to posses...to be mine and only mine (as it happens with men...simple animal instinct in many ways). Also those little dinners and the fact that you don't think he lies..those are very good signs. It actually sounds to me more like he is truly a man with a lower sex drive, who likes you, is worried that your sex drive is such that he can't handle and that other men might...that he feels that part in you, is jelaous because of that.....that would all make sense to me from what you're saying...

but again..I have never met you neither him...i don't know who you are...all this is just a shot into the dark.

hope some of this can be helpful to you!

Edited November 18, 2011 by justmeRightnow

[justmeRightnow]

JMRN have you been to IC?

 

Ruby, what is an IC?

The chances I have not been there...if it's some mental clinic or something related to health issues then I have not. I have been, thus far, luckily able to avoid any clinics etc.

 

You say you feel one way and when you say it out loud you feel another - well this is very common and I have done it too! Conflicting feelings and ambivelance need exploration.

 

hm... it's common?

Yeah, ambivelance......conflicting feelings...they need exploration and in this way I agree with you and Westock and others.

I do get a feeling that somewhere there I am not making any sense....and any sense to people who are reading this thred.

I know when I meet people like that what I think: there's a problem..and they don't see it...and I love to make sense of that for other people....organize it for them. But when it comes to myself...totally helpless.

 

I think it's clear to me that somehwere I am making a mistake...have not explored and acknowledged a problem....a truth....I don't think that I am a person who is generally bound to be unhappy...at least was not always that way in the past.

 

Maybe you could have a break and see how you feel on your own for a bit? You'd have to be comfortable with her saying she wouldn't wait if you did but it sounds like some time alone would help? To let your feelings level out and explore them by yourself or see a therapist for a few sessions as they are trained to help you explore underlying subconscious fears.

 

okay, I just hope no one who knows me will ever read this..for from what I have written it would be so easy to tell who I am. So to tell you the truth...as I am writing this we have been separated from each other for a while...a long while in fact! ...i am doing my work now in a different place than where my fiancee is right now.and I will be soon returning...we managed to hang in there...there was no other way....strangely enough my feelings are similar to those when were together..it has not helped me to get any clarity.....and sometimes I get somehow hoplessly depressed when we talk over the net, I see her and don't feel the way I should feel as her fiancee...and even after a long time of separation, when we have been away for months..I don't feel like making love. This is probably a huge RED sign....

[Ruby_shoes]

Ruby, what is an IC?

The chances I have not been there...if it's some mental clinic or something related to health issues then I have not. I have been, thus far, luckily able to avoid any clinics etc.

 

 

 

hm... it's common?

Yeah, ambivelance......conflicting feelings...they need exploration and in this way I agree with you and Westock and others.

I do get a feeling that somewhere there I am not making any sense....and any sense to people who are reading this thred.

I know when I meet people like that what I think: there's a problem..and they don't see it...and I love to make sense of that for other people....organize it for them. But when it comes to myself...totally helpless.

 

I think it's clear to me that somehwere I am making a mistake...have not explored and acknowledged a problem....a truth....I don't think that I am a person who is generally bound to be unhappy...at least was not always that way in the past.

 

 

 

okay, I just hope no one who knows me will ever read this..for from what I have written it would be so easy to tell who I am. So to tell you the truth...as I am writing this we have been separated from each other for a while...a long while in fact! ...i am doing my work now in a different place than where my fiancee is right now.and I will be soon returning...we managed to hang in there...there was no other way....strangely enough my feelings are similar to those when were together..it has not helped me to get any clarity.....and sometimes I get somehow hoplessly depressed when we talk over the net, I see her and don't feel the way I should feel as her fiancee...and even after a long time of separation, when we have been away for months..I don't feel like making love. This is probably a huge RED sign....

 

Yes it's common. Common to question and common to want to seek answers, common to be conflicted. Sometimes it's over something trivial and sometimes it's over something bigger like this.

 

It's easier to answer other people's questions than you're own (that's why we're all here right!?) but at some point someone will say something that rings bells with you and you'll explore it more in your mind.

 

IC is individual counselling - it's no shame at all to go to IC and will help you make sense of your emotions. I would definitely recommend you explore your feelings with a therapist (someone you click with, sometimes people have to try a few before they find someone comfortable, many will give you a free consult so use it to find one you like! It's very important), all they will do is give you space to discuss and impartial feedback and ask questions they feel will lead you into further insights into yourself.

 

Actually, look on the divorce section of LS, there's a man going through an awful divorce, look for the thread started by Surfer08 - it's first page of that forum and about 26 pages long now! He married a woman he felt was drop dead gorgeous and he's in a real pickle now. That said, I've read threads where 'the chemistry just wasn't there' on the Infidelity forum and others have sought that elsewhere.

 

At the end of the day sexual chemistry and that 'spark' is only one aspect of a R and you can guarantee no R will maintain it long term. It's only designed to be active in the brain for a short while.

 

There is only one person who can truly decide what is best for you and that is you! Of course we all like to help and advise if we can but you will have to make this decision at some point. To that end I feel if this woman has everything else you are looking for just not that 'oomph' I think it is worth exploring to see if there are other reasons you feel this way, subconsciously. You haven't left her yet so to me that says you're still not sure leaving is right.

 

Begin by telling her you are lacking chemistry and you want to get it there. You could even go to see a therapist together but I'd do the work on you first! Get your head in order before you confuse her too.

 

Love that starts in full blown lust and head over heels attraction is responsible for some horrific R's years later, but also some good ones too, however some people stay in bad R's for chemistry whilst others negate good ones for the lack thereof.

 

Do you know what you want in life? And in a R? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Or 10? Your GF aside, what do YOU want? If you can answer those questions then bring your GF back into the equation and answer them again. Then share with your GF your dreams and visions. You have to be true to you first and foremost.

 

BTW, do you study in a scientific field? My father was a scientist and has difficulty with his 'own' feelings at times as he has to be impartial and analytic and it's hard to analyse whilst you experience, I have inherited this gene. Just wondering!

[Ruby_shoes]

Actually. you say you don't feel how you should .... that is a lot of pressure! If you're analysing how you feel, and how you should feel you won't ever be in the moment and feeling properly. You're stuck in a rut there. Overthinking maybe? If you can't give her the full benefit of you being in the moment you can't really get a good idea of how you actually feel (make sense? Haha). I still feel if you're at this stage something kept you together this long. If you walk away you'll find love again one day. Fact. But if there's something deeper going on you need to face it at some point whether it's in this R or alone or in another R! It sounds like you have had a traumatic life at times (did I read you lost both your parents?). That is bound to leave scars. Be honest with her nicely, do the work on you to make sure you have an answer you're sure with and keep communicating, keep searching and your answer will become clear. If it doesn't bring you together, then you know!

[Mme. Chaucer]

it's not that simple...it's not either or.

 

I realize that what you are feeling is complicated.

 

But it does come down to "either or." Since you ARE engaged, but you ARE having extreme second thoughts, you are going to ultimately marry her, or you are not.

 

I DO NOT agree with the advice to talk with your fiance at length about how you don't find her attractive. You have already done that enough. She is who she is. You can do irreparable damage to her self esteem as she tries to go forward after you break up, OR as she tries to be "happily" married to a man she KNOWS does not find her physically attractive.

 

I don't think that all of your equivocating is doing you or her any good, either. Certainly it's complicated and painful, and it might have come to this point with ANY woman you were on the threshold of marrying even if she was very beautiful to you.

 

After all is said and done, I think you need a "break" from your relationship (not break up, but a period of breathing room). No dating other people during the "break." Just submit to having therapy and try to work through some of your personal issues, which really do seem to be based in fear of commitment. You seem to need to figure out 1) whether you are in a place where it is a good idea to start a marriage with anyone, and 2) whether your relationship with your fiance is marriage material.

 

Good luck with all of it.

[justmeRightnow]

How old were you when you lost each of your parents?

 

How did you feel about that at the time?

 

How do you feel about that now?

 

 

Westrock, I probably don't agree with some of your analysis...it just feels different on this side...that said, I don't exclude that you might be right....i just don't feel there are issues from the past that are hunting me...I loved a very blessed very happy childhood and the same goes for my university studies...I had been for a very long time very successful.

There's not much in my past that would cause me any trauma....really.

There's just not much hidden in my closet in this way.

The problem might be with the person that I have become as an adult in the last few years.

 

Posting here and sharing your story is a great start down the path of facing your unresolved issues and I hope you keep posting. You have received a lot of great replies and good advice here from a lot of experienced posters, but as I said in one of my previous posts, it will only get you so far. You need professional therapy from a psychologist to help you heal the pain triggered by your unresolved emotional issues from your past which in turn will help you resolve the conflict you are dealing with now.

 

with the exception of the past...I totally agree with you here. I have received a lot of good replies..and I am happily surprised that there are people who are very reasonable here.

Again, of all the places, one can find help where one would expect it least.

As for therapy...

many people told me I need one by now.

And I think I have been persuaded.....never thought I would be a guy who would need anything like that.....but I am in a mess and obviously unable to solve it myself. If a therapist will help, I will seek a therapist out.

[justmeRightnow]

OP, I am in a very similar situation as you - however I am just beginning my relationship; almost two months now.

 

I am in my late 40s and have started dating a man who is everything I have ever wanted in a partner. I wake every day incredulous at the amazing connection we have with our intellectual interests and growing emotional bond.

 

And I know that other women find him attractive but physically, he does nothing for me. When we have sex, I mostly close my eyes to not see his face.

 

But I am pushing on and trying to build something because I know that ultimately, a relationship is not about looks. I am building a relationship on all the other factors that are more important to me -- and I know that as we age, we lose our looks anyway.

 

I'm not sure if this helps you at all, but I do want you to know that you are not alone.

 

Carrie, thank you for sharing your story with me! I have to say that in my case I don't need to go that far...close my eyes....nothing like that..I am simply not attracted in the way I know i can be to women.

You said that you are in your late 40s...I think the way you look at life changes also with age...I think that your approach makes way more sense in some way than in my case. Good luck!

[justmeRightnow]

I realize that what you are feeling is complicated.

 

I DO NOT agree with the advice to talk with your fiance at length about how you don't find her attractive. You have already done that enough. She is who she is. You can do irreparable damage to her self esteem as she tries to go forward after you break up, OR as she tries to be "happily" married to a man she KNOWS does not find her physically attractive.

 

I could not agree with you more....I feel that I am doing damage in either way....talking about it...honestly I feel it's just killing something between us...anytime I articulate my thoughts the way I am articulating them here....I feel I am killing something...something we share amognst ourselves...maybe you might not call our relationship "love in the true sense" knowing what I am feeling...but I do feel that we have love..and that I am killing it anytime I formulate things like that with my finacee.

It's a fine line...you need to sometimes take the hits...solve issues which are not uncomfortable and can be hurtful..that should be part of an adult life..and talking about them is importnat...hiding one's hand into sand is not. In this way one would say I should talk with my fiancee....even more.

But then there's the other side of story..part of an adult life too....there are things which just don't need to be sad..for they do more damage then good...honesty exists in a short-term and long-term..often contradicting each other depending how one looks at it.....there are things which one just doesn't need to say..but learn how to accept them.....

it's a fine line....but I agree with you...I don't want to talk about these issues..I think that my fiancee truly doesn't deserve to be hearing any of this in many ways.

 

I don't think that all of your equivocating is doing you or her any good, either. Certainly it's complicated and painful, and it might have come to this point with ANY woman you were on the threshold of marrying even if she was very beautiful to you.

 

I wish I knew the answer to this...

 

After all is said and done, I think you need a "break" from your relationship (not break up, but a period of breathing room). No dating other people during the "break." Just submit to having therapy and try to work through some of your personal issues, which really do seem to be based in fear of commitment. You seem to need to figure out 1) whether you are in a place where it is a good idea to start a marriage with anyone, and 2) whether your relationship with your fiance is marriage material.

 

yes, I think I have been persuaded here...I will seek out professional help and see what I can learn from that..or how to move forward. As for a "break"...as I tried to suggest above...we just have had a physical break due to work commitments for a long time...really long..not talking weeks here...

 

Good luck with all of it.

[justmeRightnow]

 

It's easier to answer other people's questions than you're own (that's why we're all here right!?) but at some point someone will say something that rings bells with you and you'll explore it more in your mind.

 

some of that has been already happening...some things people have said made sense to me

 

IC is individual counselling - it's no shame at all to go to IC and will help you make sense of your emotions. I would definitely recommend you explore your feelings with a therapist (someone you click with, sometimes people have to try a few before they find someone comfortable, many will give you a free consult so use it to find one you like! It's very important), all they will do is give you space to discuss and impartial feedback and ask questions they feel will lead you into further insights into yourself.

 

no I have never done that.....I will try to seek out help as soon as I can...it will have to wait for a while ..I am in a place where this is not easy for logistical reasons.

 

Actually, look on the divorce section of LS, there's a man going through an awful divorce, look for the thread started by Surfer08 - it's first page of that forum and about 26 pages long now! He married a woman he felt was drop dead gorgeous and he's in a real pickle now. That said, I've read threads where 'the chemistry just wasn't there' on the Infidelity forum and others have sought that elsewhere.

 

Surfer08...I will try to have a look.

Infidelity....as I have said before I come from a culture where this is, I'd say, pretty common. My take is probably much more liberal on this than of many members on this board.....that said I don't believe that it's a solution to my problems...because infidelity is like living with a constant lie....and it haunts one down...if it was a workable concept for a happy life....i wouldn't refuse it..not religious here....but it just seems to me that it's a strategy with a loss-loss in the long term.

 

 

At the end of the day sexual chemistry and that 'spark' is only one aspect of a R and you can guarantee no R will maintain it long term. It's only designed to be active in the brain for a short while.

 

Actually this is one of the feelings that I have too......and that's how I have for a quite a while reasoned about us...tried to ignore that one issue we have..but as you see, i am here on this forum writing now...so it's not probably a strategy that has worked for me.

 

 

There is only one person who can truly decide what is best for you and that is you! Of course we all like to help and advise if we can but you will have to make this decision at some point. To that end I feel if this woman has everything else you are looking for just not that 'oomph' I think it is worth exploring to see if there are other reasons you feel this way, subconsciously. You haven't left her yet so to me that says you're still not sure leaving is right.

 

yes that is true...

 

Begin by telling her you are lacking chemistry and you want to get it there. You could even go to see a therapist together but I'd do the work on you first! Get your head in order before you confuse her too.

 

Love that starts in full blown lust and head over heels attraction is responsible for some horrific R's years later, but also some good ones too, however some people stay in bad R's for chemistry whilst others negate good ones for the lack thereof.

 

This is one of the best statements here...on this thread, at least to me.

Anyway I look at it...I see exactly this....for some, lust is important and it starts with lust .but it ends in a disaster...and I felt that with the women I felt strong lust for..that our relationship would be a disaster if we tried to get married or stay together for a long time.....and other relationships..they don't have lust but last long and are very good relationships...and that's how I feel about my fiancee...that she's a person who you can be for a long time and have a very stable, very good relationship...and then there are relationships that have both: and I see that those people are very happy with each other, truly happy...it's a mixed bag...and it probably depends on the individuals..and on a certain "luck" that comes with it....on the combination of those factors and all...

 

my problem is that I probably want to have it "all".......in order to feel happy.

Is it idiotic to feel that way? without a doubt...

Do I deserve to feel that way? Am I a person who should ask for it "all"....do I offer all of that myself?

Probably not...I can't answer that question about myself..

 

But I am trying to do what I would advise others to do: just realize that you are one little ant on this planet of millions of ants...and don't behave like it's all about you....learn to be happy, appreciate the happiness and the luck you've been already given.....just get over yourself....

 

so I am trying to be a man like that.....but the trouble is that it seems it's not working either.....if it was, I would probably be writing a nice a beautiful email to my fiancee instead of trying to live in a cyberspace.

...and it's probably not working for my holding back is hurting my fiancee...in some ways it is...!

 

Do you know what you want in life? And in a R? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Or 10? Your GF aside, what do YOU want? If you can answer those questions then bring your GF back into the equation and answer them again. Then share with your GF your dreams and visions. You have to be true to you first and foremost.

 

I do that a lot...think of the future....and that's when it becomes problematic as well...I don't see one future but a few futures...and they have some pro's and con's...and they are in some ways totally realistic and in some ways they aren't not...

 

BTW, do you study in a scientific field? My father was a scientist and has difficulty with his 'own' feelings at times as he has to be impartial and analytic and it's hard to analyse whilst you experience, I have inherited this gene. Just wondering!

 

I don't want to tell you exactly but let's say I am in a field where logic is important. and some people say about me that I am overly analytical as an individual.....which is weird because I think I am extremely emotional as an individual.

in fact it seems to me that people who are conflicted that way I am must be on some level very emotional....very emotional.

I have always thought about this and it' s something I have never solved with myself: there are emotions in my case and they are extremely strong...but I also rely very strongly on logic or analytical thinking when solving problems.....and hence you have this schizophrenic personality as emotions and logic love to contradic themselves.

if there's a real deep-seated problem in my personality...it's not because of some trauma in the past..but probably exactly because of this.....a conflict between two equally competitive and persuasive ways of living and thinking about life: the logical and the emotional.

[eerie_reverie]

I've got a few simple questions that are some food for thought:

 

1. Are you happy? Do you feel blessed? This is a simple question tht shouldn't require much thought... Don't overanalyze it

 

2. How do you think this scenario will unfold?

 

You marry her and your relationship continues in much the same way. You finish your phd program and your career starts to take off. You meet a smart woman at work you're highly attracted to. She likes you too. Its a shot at true love, real happiness... But you are married.

 

 

With your op you are essentially asking us if we think you should settle. Certainly, I believe some people should settle, and what you have is pretty good. But based on your age and educational background, I think there is a high chance you will eventually run into something much better. A woman whom you respect who can be your best friend, that you would like to have sex more often than a couple of times a month with. There is absolutely no guarantee that it will work out but I feel like condemning yourself to a life devoid of passion in your case is not a great idea.

 

I feel like marriage is too difficult an endeavor to go into wih all these doubts.

Edited November 18, 2011 by eerie_reverie

[westrock]

Westrock, I probably don't agree with some of your analysis...it just feels different on this side...that said, I don't exclude that you might be right....

 

JMRW it's ok that you don't agree with me, but it's good that you seem you to be opening up to consider the opinions of other posters on here. That's good. That's progress.

 

i just don't feel there are issues from the past that are hunting me...I loved a very blessed very happy childhood and the same goes for my university studies...I had been for a very long time very successful.

There's not much in my past that would cause me any trauma....really.

There's just not much hidden in my closet in this way.

The problem might be with the person that I have become as an adult in the last few years.

 

What about the loss of your parents? Anyone who lost their parents the way you described would be greatly affected emotionally, so you are probably no exception.

 

When someone loses both their parents that way, it would not be unusual for their child (even if the child is an adult) to try to make things perfect in their life and try to control things, in an attempt to ensure that such a tragedy doesn't happen again in their life and more importantly to ensure they don't have to face those feelings again. The reasoning is simple, we endure an experience that causes us pain, and we will do everything we can to avoid the pain in the future. This leads to the perfection, control, indecision that I was writing about before and that you seem to be experiencing now. When you lost your parents, you may have put on a brave face, but that doesn't mean you weren't emotionally in pain on a subconscious level.

 

The loss of your parents may be the unresolved emotional feelings from your past that I have previously mentioned to you. This may be what's happening to you on a subconscious level, but you haven't given us enough information about how you feel about the loss of your parents.

 

I bring this up because I noticed you conveniently avoided my questions in my prior post about how you felt about the loss of your parents. It is something worth exploring further because there is likely a link from the tragic loss of your relationship with your parents to the relationship issues you are currently facing. You may not see the connection, but there most likely is a connection and you are the common link.

 

And I think I have been persuaded.....never thought I would be a guy who would need anything like that.....but I am in a mess and obviously unable to solve it myself. If a therapist will help, I will seek a therapist out.

 

This is an excellent decision you have made. I hope things work out for you.

[hoping2heal]

Hello,

The title of my thread says it all.......in fact it doesn't. But if I was to reduce all those 5 years of our wonderful relationship into one single line that was to explain why I am worried about getting married, it would probably be that horrible line above.

 

I need help with something that I don't know how to solve myself...and that I can't share with my friends, my relatives and most of all, with my fiancee...

 

We have been together for 5 years...and overall it has been very very nice. We are both pursuing academic careers (at one of the top universities) and this is where we understand each other really well: we can speak for hours about literature, politics, sports, music or any other topic while enjoying each other's company. When we travel and when we are together in our apartment, we do really well as well....I think.

 

I respect her very much...I have not had greater respect for any other woman that I dated before. She has a wonderful personality: trustworthy, gentle, kind and smart..someone who would be a wonderful mother to our children - a topic we talk about often these days.

We are in our early 30s and my fiancee has no doubts about her feelings - she wants to get married and plan a life together.

 

And here comes the "but". There probably always is one. I don't feel it....I don't simply feel it in my heart....I don't feel that I want to get married and there's one rather simple reason for that: sometimes I just don't find my fiancee attractive.....and that "sometimes" has become now "quite often". I am not attracted and it pains me....when we make love it costs me lot of emotional energy to be a good and caring lover (it is almost never natural to me). And it pains me that I cannot give her that sort of physical love that she would deserve for the wonderful being she is......But the biggest problem (and many will not believe me here) is that I feel even more pain when I look at her don't find her face pretty.....I wish I would and sometimes try to force myself into seeing her as somone I enjoy looking at...but it often doesn't work and so I look away...wait for the moment when it such feelings go away...wait for her to have a better day, to be more rested....to look better.

I try to supress such thoughts of her not being "pretty to me"......but when we go out together for dinner and accidently come across someone in the street,or in the restaurant whose face I find pretty to look at, I feel almost a physical pain... for I wish that I could look at my fiancee that way too.

 

I want to tell you that this is more than about sex. I know that sex becomes old with almost anyone after a few years ...I can do without it, mastrubate or find a way how to solve it together. This is about the emotions that I want to feel for my finacee.....it is about being truly able to tell here that she is "beautiful today" and feel it that way too. Often I feel that I need to lie. Hence,I feel unhappy...unhappy for she deserves more than lies and because I want to live a life where I don't need to lie either. I want to give her the honest feeling of admiration (something which one cannot fake). I want to adore her not just for the person that she is, but also for the woman that she is....... I think that every woman deserves to be loved in both ways...

 

...but I don't know how to will myself into seeing her face and feeling joy sometimes. I want to walk along side with her and look at her face and feel joy...enjoy watching her...finding it pretty again and again..instead I have to avoid our eye contact for I am worried she would see what my eyes are seeing....i.e that they are looking for beauty and cannot find it.

 

In the past I never had trouble breaking up..I could be very decisive...and go with my gut feelings.

Not this time...I have been feeling this for a while now (a few years?)..but I am not even sure what my gut feelings are anymore..they fluctuate..sometimes I see her and find her pretty and everything is fine. Sometimes it just hits me so badly that I cannot move....and this kind of feeling comes back and back, it never goes away forever.

I have not breaken up because I am unsure about it - I don't feel I would be any more relieved......but I won't be relieved if we get married either.. I am stuck!

 

I am worried to get married because I know that I can be a better lover than I am now.... I don't want to get married for I am not feeling entirely happy...and I worry for her and our own sake...what do these emotions mean?

 

P.S. I hope you will not misunderstand what I am trying to tell you here: my finacee is generally a pretty person - there are quite a few men who find her attractive. And I am not looking for a "model"..have never dated anyone like that and don't need anyone like that. I just want to look at her and feel: my wife is pretty to me!

 

I haven't read through all the posts but some of them, I'm pretty sure the problem is your g/f is only perfect on paper. There is no real chemistry and you're missing it and the more you try to force yourself to like this woman who has a great personality and wonderful qualities, good conversation etc. the more you are making yourself turned off by her because you are trying to force it.

 

Chemistry isn't always about physical beauty or handsomeness either but it is pretty clear that the two of you don't have it - you just wish you did because there are so many other great things you admire about this person.

 

I don't think this will get any better in time just worse for you and eventually her too as she starts to realize it.

[PinkInTheLimo]

You use the word "nice" too often.

 

A relationship being "nice" is not good enough to get married. Among other things, there has to be some primal attraction. Something whereby the idea of your partner making love with someone else turns you into the Hulk, something which tells you that if you would ever lose this person you would be totally devastated.

 

You don't have this feeling and you know it since a long time. There is only one option: break up with her. You should have done it a long time ago (as you have already been to a shrink 2 years ago about this issue).

 

And yes, you will have to tell your girlfriend to some extent why you don't want to marry her. And it will hurt her but what will hurt her most is that you did not tell her before and wasted her time that way. You should emphasise that it is you not her.

[Horseshoe]

I get what you're saying... But I guess I don't understand how severe your feelings are. I've been married for almost a year. My husband is awesome and I love him dearly. Sometimes he looks unkept. Also, he's always telling me how beautiful I am, even though I don't dress up nearly as much as I used to and I only shave my legs for special occassions. My point is, if you're unahppy with her appearance now, it's only going to get worse. My husband has had to hold my hair while I vomit (flu), wipe mascara from my cheeks when I cry (funural), help me pull out a nuva ring that got stuck...you name it. I've had to bath him when he pooped himself (flu), clean wax out of his ears, trim his nose hair (for our wedding), and make him shower before I'll have sex. I still think he's the most handsome man and I love him and I'm attracted to him. You have to be able to accept someone at their worst to marry them. If you're unhappy because she doesn't take care of herself now, how will you feel when she's really struggling??

[justmeRightnow]

I get what you're saying... But I guess I don't understand how severe your feelings are. I've been married for almost a year. My husband is awesome and I love him dearly. Sometimes he looks unkept. Also, he's always telling me how beautiful I am, even though I don't dress up nearly as much as I used to and I only shave my legs for special occassions. My point is, if you're unahppy with her appearance now, it's only going to get worse. My husband has had to hold my hair while I vomit (flu), wipe mascara from my cheeks when I cry (funural), help me pull out a nuva ring that got stuck...you name it. I've had to bath him when he pooped himself (flu), clean wax out of his ears, trim his nose hair (for our wedding), and make him shower before I'll have sex. I still think he's the most handsome man and I love him and I'm attracted to him. You have to be able to accept someone at their worst to marry them. If you're unhappy because she doesn't take care of herself now, how will you feel when she's really struggling??

 

I get what you're saying... But I guess I don't understand how severe your feelings are.

 

Yeah, this is something I don't know myself. Am I just experiencing something which is inevitable? Or is it simply something more than this? I guess I am here to try to find out myself.

 

As to your question:

 

I don't know, I have never experienced what you have described above: neither the so-called "unappealing moments" that you mention above (we just have not had much of that...) nor the other emotion: loving someone despite having objections...ie. accepting faults and still loving unconditoinally? I am not sure I know that kind of feeling - have probably never felt any love of that sort - not for myself and neither for others. I don't think that I am a person who experiences a sort of "unconditional love" for anything over long periods of time..for various reasons. So I can't truly answer your question.

What I know is that my respect in many ways has been growing for my partner...and I have always thought that to be a good sign. But with it, also my doubts that I have been describing in this thread..and this is truly a bad sign.

[LostInTurn]

There's an additional level of depth here since you're now engaged.

 

However, that being said, I think you've found your answer. You cannot make yourself see someone a way you truly do not see them. You cannot marry someone you find yourself saying you'll resolve the lack of sex in others ways, or your longing to look at her the way you look at other females. That just is not fair to either of you.

 

Quite honestly, I think it's time to sit her down and come to a calm resolve and end it. Prolonging this is not going to do anyone any good.

 

I understand you're here because you're seeking advice, but I think you've found it. Therapy may be good to discuss the issues, but it won't change what you see. You don;t care for her pony tails and her hair doesn't look clean. You're looking for something she cannot give you. You've tried discussing it, nothing.

[blugirl]

Leave her now or you will eventually cheat on her.

 

A rlship is like puzzles, there are many different pieces which have to match, even if one of them is missing, it can't work out.

[setsenia]

Not everyone is going to look like a supermodel and everyone has their own tastes. Beauty isn't everything, but it's important that YOU find her attractive otherwise how will you be able to have a physical relationship. For a good relationship, you need both a good physical and emotional relationship. It sounds like you respect her very much, but if you do not find her attractive, break off the engagement. I don't know many happily married couples who don't find their spouse attractive. Find someone you connect to emotionally and physically, otherwise this may lead to divorce and resentment later down the line. Although my husband isn't model material, the important thing is that I find him attractive. Every time I see him, he brings a smile to my face. Sometimes he has these goofy expressions, but I love his every feature. We've been together 6 years and married for 4. If you do not feel those things before a marriage, it will only get worse later on. It sounds like you connect very well, but I advise to remain friends if possible, rather than getting married.