Author Chinook Posted August 27, 2011 Author Posted August 27, 2011 Chinook, I hear the panic in your voice. Try to calm down. I don't think this is the end of your marriage. I am quite sure he will be back in no time. The question is: if he does come back, will the crux problems of your marriage find a viable solution? How long are you willing to put up with being the sole breadwinner in the family? Well, I see it that when you're in a partnership that you both do what it takes to make it work and I saw it and still do that he couldn't work so it would be fine for me to do so... and it worked out okay because me being at home would actually drive me bonkers - but he enjoyed it and enjoyed doing his own thing. He enjoyed not having to conform to the rat race, whereas I thrive on it. I agree that your husband is most likely feeling like a failure as well as all the shame and self-loathing that are associated with this state of mind. When people are down on themselves, they do often tend to lash out at the people closest to them. Not fair, I know, but that's how it often is. I know, I can see this now. I just don't see how I can do anything to help sort it out. I guess it's not my place and I have to step back Is there any way he could land another job perhaps? Do something to boost his self-image and reinforce his confidence? When he was working, were things better? Well, I don't think there's anything he can do about the job situ now - things are pretty bad in the UK at the moment. I don't think his self-confidence is helping. I would prefer him to do something totally different based around his hobbies and interests but I am not sure that he thinks that is worthwhile either. Try to gain your self-control and think positive. I am sure this is not over. Marriages don;t end that easily. When you both calm down enough, ask to speak to him and see where that goes. MI'm trying, thank you for being so understanding.
Author Chinook Posted August 27, 2011 Author Posted August 27, 2011 I also agree with Trimmer & Marlena's second post there. It's just hard not to panic when things look so bad. He's taken all his things, left his wedding ring and changed his post and bills. I just am losing hope by the second. He seems in such a bad way and I feel crap that I can't help him and I know I have tried. But at the same time, I also know that I need to take care of me too. All I can do now is wait it out either way
dreamingoftigers Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 I read in After the Affair how we often trigger the same relationship patterns over and over, often parental relation patterns as well. He could have easily triggered a similar frustrated response from the ex-wife by taking similar actions. Regardless of the personality differences between the two of you. Kind of wonder if he'll figure out: if I don't make a decision, eventually someone else will and I may not like it.
Author Chinook Posted August 27, 2011 Author Posted August 27, 2011 I read in After the Affair how we often trigger the same relationship patterns over and over, often parental relation patterns as well. He could have easily triggered a similar frustrated response from the ex-wife by taking similar actions. Regardless of the personality differences between the two of you. Kind of wonder if he'll figure out: if I don't make a decision, eventually someone else will and I may not like it.He doesn't seem to get it that I can only go on the info he has presented to me and thus far, as far as I know he's moved out and intends to divorce. I don't have any other information right now and whilst I'm trying to give him space, the risk with that is that sooner or later, someone will move on because they have no choice but to do so. He can't seem to see this. But I feel a little better talking things out and I slept a little better last night even if my eyes are sore as hell from all the weeping.
Author Chinook Posted August 27, 2011 Author Posted August 27, 2011 Uhm I just had a bad thought. I don't know why but maybe there is someone else...? Maybe that's why this was so sudden..? I hate LNC and the mind-games it plays
sadhubby Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 is he having some kinda second thoughts of his ex? intentional fight picking? does he still love her and just using you and the situation?
climbergirl Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Chinook, I've been were you are. If you can talk him through (not out of) this, at least for peace of mind...please try. I will not go into my past as this is your thread, put one thing that made me feel better (in the long run) is that I did every thing I could to salvage what I could.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Uhm I just had a bad thought. I don't know why but maybe there is someone else...? Maybe that's why this was so sudden..? I hate LNC and the mind-games it plays Seems very odd. Mine could run at the drop of a hat though. When there was no OW.
Author Chinook Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 is he having some kinda second thoughts of his ex? intentional fight picking? does he still love her and just using you and the situation? You know, I've asked myself & him this a few times recently. He says he doesn't love her & would never go back - but I'm not so sure. On occasion the denial has come across as empty. I've only asked him a couple of times but I dunno, call it spidey senses or whatever but I've always thought if anything happened to us, he would go back. I'm not sure a lot of that is to do with love though, more like a ship returning to a familiar port..?!
Author Chinook Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 Chinook, I've been were you are. If you can talk him through (not out of) this, at least for peace of mind...please try. I will not go into my past as this is your thread, put one thing that made me feel better (in the long run) is that I did every thing I could to salvage what I could. I know. I'm finding it hard to even type at the moment though. He emailed me yesterday to say he wants to talk about things. He didn't say what his plans are for that. But I'm in the position now that I'm not sure I can talk just yet. He's hurt me so badly I can't actually physically talk with him. I replied that I'd be happy to talk when he has taken some time & sorted himself out, but with the scale of the devastation right now is possibly too soon & he agreed. I think right now it feels the worst thing we can do is to rush into 'fixing things' without examining why it happened. I don't want to be here again in a few weeks time!
Author Chinook Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 Seems very odd. Mine could run at the drop of a hat though. When there was no OW. I just don't know. At one time I would have said H would never have run away... but here we are with him at his Mum's place. I just feel uncomfortable at the speed that this happened with. It feels like the situation is bring used as an excuse... but whether that's because of a OW or he just wanted out, I've really no idea.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Definitely put off talking for another few days. Impulsively out, impulsively trying to push back in is no way to live. Granted the situation in our marriage was ridiculously stressful (of his own making I might add) but as soon as he figured out how to yank that chain and that I would take him back relatively easily, he yanked that chain and took off a lot. Really try to nip this in the bud if you want him back. Maybe even suggest staying apart for a bit until he is willing to go to counseling about it.
Author Chinook Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 Definitely put off talking for another few days. Impulsively out, impulsively trying to push back in is no way to live. Granted the situation in our marriage was ridiculously stressful (of his own making I might add) but as soon as he figured out how to yank that chain and that I would take him back relatively easily, he yanked that chain and took off a lot. Really try to nip this in the bud if you want him back. Maybe even suggest staying apart for a bit until he is willing to go to counseling about it. That thing of it being of their own making - I've been thinking about that today a lot. You know this malarkey about him losing his job...? Well he was the manager and wrote a report recommending down-sizing and moving the operations to a central location. He recommended his own job being made redundant! And now wtf is this with me dealing with 'I lost my job' poor-me-boo-feckin-hoo! Sorry but I bet he's not told his Mom that when he's telling her that I was a cruel b!tch kicking him when he was down. I definitely can't see him yet - I got a text and email this morning asking was I okay and to let him know, even if it was a blank mail. On the iPhone it does conversation bubbles for each person - so I sent an empty bubble back. I know I probably responded when I shouldn't have - but I was worried that if I didn't he'd end up coming over and I definitely don't need that right now. On a lighter note... my house is gleaming clean and I got an email telling me puppy is doing okay.
Seraph1 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 That thing of it being of their own making - I've been thinking about that today a lot. You know this malarkey about him losing his job...? Well he was the manager and wrote a report recommending down-sizing and moving the operations to a central location. He recommended his own job being made redundant! And now wtf is this with me dealing with 'I lost my job' poor-me-boo-feckin-hoo! Sorry but I bet he's not told his Mom that when he's telling her that I was a cruel b!tch kicking him when he was down. This screams at me like nothing else. This man is a professional victim. He LIKES the idea that the world is against him and he seeks out strong women because he is attracted to the traits that he doesn't have... and oddly enough it is those very traits which he later complains about in order to become the victim once more. He is checking up on you to see if you are still there. He had no intention of letting go of the marriage...merely to regain some control in the relationship. That sort of power will be buoying him up through his feelings of inadequacy and shame. Cutting contact with him will force him to have to confront his demons by himself which is something this man has never really done. Looks like a repeat of his first LTR with the same patterns popping up... you, yourself have identified them! Keep your head and maintain a calm and non-threatening attitude towards him. This is something that you are already doing even though you are very upset! Keep following it and you will start to get more clarity. I know that you are hurting and I feel for you. This crappy situation isn't something that you deserved. Hugs.
Stella44 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Hi Chinook. Okay, I could be completely wrong here but I am also wondering if it is shame that has caused this or if he realized that he will have to do something about where he is at and copped out of it by going to his mother's. I also was with someone who struggled to find/keep work and I supported him for years. He was continually late and/or absent and I kept making excuses for him. He just needed the right job, he just needed me to love and support him more blah blah blah. And finally I could give no more. I was utterly drained emotionally and financially. He was a decent guy in many ways which made it harder to split up with him as I always could see the potential. But ultimately, he dragged me down to such an extent that I had to let him go. I am not saying this is happening for you. Only you know what is happening for you. And even then it may take you a long time to really see things as they are now. It's taken me a year to see past my guilt and sadness and really get a good grip on what was happening. Take this time apart to figure out if this is where you want to be and if this is what you want. It does take two people to make a relationship work and the fact that he has cut and run when you start to make some demands of him to sort himself out is not a good sign. It is his responsibility to contribute to your partnership emotionally and financially. If he cannot then the very least he can do is stay and try to work on it with you. Look at this from your own point of view not his. Otherwise you will never figure out if this is what you want or need for your future. Take care
Author Chinook Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 The last two posts have kinda hammered home this is not just me. I'm a very introspective person - I didn't use to be. But becoming ill with a serious illness forces you to be so. Over the last few days I have looked inwards, 'what was my role in this?' and 'what could I have done differently?'. I always examine my motivations & interests in any situation that crops up. Being totally honest, I could have not reacted angrily towards him on Tues during the major fight that kicked this off. But, here's the thing, I find myself reacting in certain ways when certain buttons are pushed... so I know I could have stopped this. But I don't blame myself exactly - I feel disappointed & angry with myself because I find myself in a situation I never wanted to be in. A good example: it is 07:15 here right now, he is downstairs asleep on the sofa. Last night I was swinging from despair to anger. I received the email about the puppy & how well she was doing (she is JUST clean now) and, they had changed her name. She had a name that he & I chose. Something inside me snapped because he wasn't here to hand her over, he didn't take the responsibility to ensure her safety. So I forwarded him the email & said that he needed to REALLY look at who is the one who has been cruel! An email came back saying 'I this' and 'I that' and he wanted to talk. This is how good he is "we need to talk, only you aren't ready" - making it my fault again. In the end I gave in. He came over & we talked. Or rather he talked, I defended my corner. I knew that's what would happen. I knew there would be a lot of what I did wrong & not a lot of what his role is/was in things. I didn't want to autopsy things but apparently for us to work, I need to change a lot of things. Recently whenever an argument or situation has arisen I have often not reacted immediately, taken some time & then written things down & emailed him my thoughts. I hate doing this - but I found it's the only real way I am 'heard' because in the thick of things I don't/can't think straight & I don't like being pushed to say things I don't want to say. Last night he said I have to change this - he can't enter a discussion by email. I have never asked him to, just to read what I think!! In the next breath he said I was too insular, self-contained & don't let him in (yet I tell him what I think using a medium he doesn't like!) Also I have no empathy & my timing for the kick up the butt was wrong. This was all about me escalating a situation when I could have just accepted it, supported him & moved on. Really not kidding he said this stuff! He also said I need to let some things go as they're not that important - OMG I wanted to slap him for this one because I have let a LOT go in the last 12 months & I have dealt with a LOT of his baggage from his previous LTR. A LOT! So at 02.30am he asked could he stay over. He wasn't stupid enough to think I wanted to be close to him but he asked in a manner that said it was MY decision & MY fault if he stayed or went. I reasoned it was unfair for him to wake his parents up so late! So he stayed ... on the sofa. But again I find myself in yet another situ with him that I didn't want to be in. If I'd said no - that's not me needing some time, that's me being a bitch. If I'd said no to talking, that's not me needing some clarity & space, that's me ratcheting up the situ into something it isn't ... You see the warped perspective I have to deal with..?! I'm kinda exhausted mentally with it. During our talk, despite my asking, there wasn't a lot of the things HE needed to do. Sadly, I can see what will happen now is he will come home, things will move on until the next time this happens & he does it again & eventually, mentally I will walk away because nothing will change. Just like the next to last post has indicated might happen. I fought hard for my life during cancer treatment - I was very sick & close to dying at one point & I don't know whether one day it might return (I've been told that by my medics). So I already know I don't want to spend my life fighting
dreamingoftigers Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 If this pattern continues, it will take a toll on your health. I am 29, it has already taken a toll on mine.
Author Chinook Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Also when I tried to convey the impact of the devastation he has caused by walking out - it didn't really seem to hit home. Like I said there were a lot of "you" words & not a lot of "I". He says he has told his Mom a lot & she thinks he's being petty & has trouble holding a relationship down (no kidding!) He also said she wanted to come & talk to me, but she didn't - he didn't say he asked her not to do so but that's what happened. Makes me wonder whether that's because it would risk her knowing the real truth about things & his victim mentality. See if she gets some REAL balanced views of what's REALLY happening, she'd kick him up the butt too! He says he's not welcome at his parents house really... OMG I so want to slap him for that! How dare he inflict himself upon them like this, impose on them & then say he's not welcome!! He really really doesn't see how selfish this all is
Author Chinook Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 If this pattern continues, it will take a toll on your health. I am 29, it has already taken a toll on mine. I know & that worries me. I'm a healthcare professional - so I already have an idea what the long term effects of the stress hormones being dumped around my system are
dreamingoftigers Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 There almost seems to be a connection missing somewhere in their logic circuits. Some rather traumatic things have happened in my marriage with the runner, and trying to address those today, even on a completely even keel sparked a huge problem. Things that DIRELY needed to be addressed and have been affecting us for just over six months. It literally took an hour of calming him down, pinning it, cutting through the crap and people-pleasing stuff that he does to get to a very very simple point about it all and explaining that the conditions I had set to govern my own space were a) not an attack b) not meant to bash him in any way c) not an attempt to control him in any way d) not meant to create a problem in his future and that he had the full choice on what to do with his life. Keee-rist! But it did get done eventually. There is a huge difference between them when they are just parroting back to you "what you want to hear" to get back in the door or avoid the conversation AND when they actually GET IT. Regular boundaries are very hard. I find email to be the most non-threatening and effective way to deliver them in my case. Sometimes he assigns a "tone" to the written word that isn't there though. Frustrating. I would check out The New Codependency for some communication/boundary-setting help (not suggesting that this is your issue, just found the communication bits etc. to be wonderful at explaining things.) It's tough with runners. I also found that pulling back, waiting and NOT talking seemed to foster a lot more trust with them. Especially if you do it for about a month (oh jeez it's tough but worth it). It just seems to settle them down for some reason. Like they can relate to the "bottle it up then bring it out" idea. No clue why. Just seems to work better.
Author Chinook Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 I think I will look that book up because although I'm very aware I cannot fix him & help him, I also find myself often in a situation where he expects it!!! I often find myself trying to patch him up so he stays 'up'... when I know the reality is he needs to sink & find his own way up. He doesn't realise how controlling all this is & you'd be correct to ask why I buy into it with him..?! Why enable him..?! Because I'm married to him & you're supposed to work things out. Like you said dot, maybe this time I actually have to step back & make him go away & learn things for himself about himself. I'm not sure he can do that.
robf1971 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 situ with him that I didn't want to be in Or a situation that you allowed yourself to be in. Why do you care what he thinks of you anymore?
Author Chinook Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Or a situation that you allowed yourself to be in. Why do you care what he thinks of you anymore? That's a good question, but not one with a straight forward answer. When I said I find myself in a situation I didn't want to be in, I meant I wasn't ready to talk... yet here I was talking. Actually, I do care what he thinks & I care what I think too. I'm not the one who walked away & I want to save it if it can be saved but not at the cost of enabling a repetitive pattern of behaviours. He has the advantage of knowing I love him, don't want to lose him & would never walk away. Right now, I don't have those things & it's a good question to make me sit back & think why would I do this to myself..?! But the reality is I don't want it to fail & all of the above taken into consideration, he does also have a lot of good qualities.
climbergirl Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Chinook, Was your husband battling depression before he was unemployed or vice versa? I would suspect that he would feel, at least somewhat, emasculated that you are carrying most of the responsibilities of the household. In my house I was doing the same thing, but when I lost my cool I think I reaffirmed all those negative feelings he had about himself. He left partly because I was just another reminder of what he had become. We were married for 8 months. I have no doubt that his mother thinks he's being petty, and I'm curious as to how much he has told her. But I bet she does know this; her son is throwing in the towel before he even puts his gloves on to fight for the marriage. When you have talked to him recently has the subject of MC come up at all? What worries me especially is that he may be using this as a way to manipulate you and punish you for holding up that mirror. Is this a possiblity? If so, it's a cruel tactic that will make you walk on eggshells and unable to confront any conflicts for fear that he will walk away. Sorry this is all over the place, but your situation gets my mind reeling. And one more question, what does he do for you (generally) that makes you feel loved and cared for?
dreamingoftigers Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 He doesn't necessarily have to "go away." If you are wickedly good at putting up those boundaries, you can really set it up kinda well. In this state though, you are going to end up talking a lot of to him and trying to get answers etc. Just totally resist that. When he comes to you like: "my shoelace won't tie up, I can't do my job search, my piano lessons aren't going so well and I want some pizza and the phone is over there...." Something along the lines of: "Well you'll figure something out." Really positive upbeat tone. (which absolutely no sarcasm or any other disclaimer like "you're an adult blah blah" or "I can't be expected to blah blah blah all the time.") If he wants the help, it forces him to ask for it. You can put it off or choose what you want. At first it might piss him off slightly but a lot of them really do crave the faith in them and the backup. Often they come to you with xyz task and then you rescue them from it, just take yourself out of the role of middleman and things might be a little cranky for a few days-week, but they tend to correct themselves. I found that my husband made himself a little more helpless for a bit. I refused to pitch where he was responsible and he picked himself up and then felt better about himself. Let them crash into walls. They don't see action -----> consequence otherwise. Often we feel that showing them we love them means protecting them from their self-imposed consequences. The opposite is actually quite true. We have to step back and let them manage their own lives. And we manage ours, that includes a lot of our emotional framework. I knew that your dude would pop back. I wasn't expecting this quick, but mine always comes back 10x quicker then I expect. Easy run, easy return. I practically guarantee that he will repeat this and test and test. If you get really strong emotionally, like really build up that internal fortitude, you just reframe the running thing as his stress and avoidant reaction. That's all it really is. The more he does not get the reaction he is looking for from you and realizes that he risks losing you over it, the more he will likely smarten up. And no, telling him that "you're gonna lose me if you blah blah blah" just simply doesn't work with these guys. Verbal is just, ugh, unless your words match your actions to a T.
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