Why wont MW tell it like it is?

[reboot]

Yes you keep saying that Crabbies, but it's just so off topic at this point.

[Crabbies]

should that be prefaced with IMO?

I think it's absolutely relevent...

Sorry if it offends you...

Trying to get a sense of what the OP is dealing with...ok w/you?

[reboot]

According to the OPs last post, he isn't dealing with it (her) anymore.

[Circular]

So we sat on the couch...and I told her how her idea of friendship is anything but. I told her that it sounded like an emotional affair, more hiding, more secrets. and she gave me her standard line that "that's all I'm capable of giving you right now." Wow...guess she was waiting for me to say thanks or something.

 

This is spooky as xMW said this to me many times as well. Interpret that as what it is, a very selfish remark equating to "I give you nothing, but you give me all you can - and don't be surprised when I give you nothing because I told you I wasnt". Nobody asked this and you haven't said anything but does she have kids?

 

Congrats though, it may be hard to move on but it's the right thing for everyone involved - even her, maybe it'll be one of those rare moments that through loss she realizes how childish she is and starts to grow up.

[Crabbies]

apologies, hadn't seen the last one...

OP whatever you say here, I hope you will stay strong...

Bravo for not falling for the tears....

Very old trick....

[confused_88]

This is spooky as xMW said this to me many times as well. Interpret that as what it is, a very selfish remark equating to "I give you nothing, but you give me all you can - and don't be surprised when I give you nothing because I told you I wasnt". Nobody asked this and you haven't said anything but does she have kids?

 

Congrats though, it may be hard to move on but it's the right thing for everyone involved - even her, maybe it'll be one of those rare moments that through loss she realizes how childish she is and starts to grow up.

 

She does have 3 kids...2 with her H. In my previous post I forgot to mention that I pushed her on why she made me a promise about getting a divorce, only to reneg. And she told me that we live in an at-fault state, so she is afraid of losing everything. Fear will keep her in that dead-end, loveless marriage for the rest of her life. Glad I'm not her, or her H...that's for sure.

[Owl]

You did the right thing, confused.

 

Stick with it...and hold your head high.

[reboot]

She does have 3 kids...2 with her H. In my previous post I forgot to mention that I pushed her on why she made me a promise about getting a divorce, only to reneg. And she told me that we live in an at-fault state, so she is afraid of losing everything. Fear will keep her in that dead-end, loveless marriage for the rest of her life. Glad I'm not her, or her H...that's for sure.

 

I hope you realize that's all most likely just more lies. I'll let you in on a fool-proof method of knowing when she's lying.

 

 

 

 

 

When her lips are moving.

[Circular]

She does have 3 kids...2 with her H. In my previous post I forgot to mention that I pushed her on why she made me a promise about getting a divorce, only to reneg. And she told me that we live in an at-fault state, so she is afraid of losing everything. Fear will keep her in that dead-end, loveless marriage for the rest of her life. Glad I'm not her, or her H...that's for sure.

 

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what was her take on the potential impact of all of this on her kids? My xMW had 2 kids and that was something she brought up very often, the impact on them, they are also very young still. Matter of fact it was one of the primary points in deciding to walk away. I wanted to be out of her life so she could focus on her kids as I had this realization that all the time she was putting into the A was taking away from them.

 

You not mentioning them makes me wonder how self-centered she is...

[confused_88]

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what was her take on the potential impact of all of this on her kids? My xMW had 2 kids and that was something she brought up very often, the impact on them, they are also very young still. Matter of fact it was one of the primary points in deciding to walk away. I wanted to be out of her life so she could focus on her kids as I had this realization that all the time she was putting into the A was taking away from them.

 

You not mentioning them makes me wonder how self-centered she is...

 

To be honest, she rarely ever mentioned the impact on her kids. I think she only mentioned the impact on them once. and it was just a casual "the kids are taking this hard"...other than that that's about it

 

What's funny is 30 minutes after returning from lunch, she disappeared. no longer here, didn't tell anyone she left. Maybe the truth hurt and she got a dose of reality she couldn't handle.

[Gentlegirl]

yes, she is. But as cliche as it sounds, beauty is only skin deep. and the reasons I fell in love with her are because we seem to be the exact same person (all the same interests, likes, dislikes, etc). Stop me if you've heard that a 1,000 times before.

 

It's funny when I read everyone's posts, and talk to people in my life with similar experience, everyone is on the same page. But part of me refuses to believe that everyone operates the same way. Aren't we all individuals? No 2 scenarios can be alike, can they? Or am I just deluding myself? haha

 

Yep, you are delusional but you aren't alone. I guess all Ow/Om probably have been to some extent.

 

I found the xMM did a number on me..... he said he liked everything I liked etc..."we are the same" was one of his favourite sayings.

 

You are being kept warm until she needs you again. She is throwing you curmbs with the friendship thing. She is keeping your motor running .

 

When she gets you alone for coffee or lunch orwhatever it will be, she will have you all hooked up again.... I fell for that many times'

 

I agree that you should cancel the whole damned date. Tell her to go home to her husband and stop playing games. It's mean and selfish. You will be like a discarded toy when she has finished with you.... left somewhere out in the cold.

 

Gentlegirl.

[East7]

To be honest, she rarely ever mentioned the impact on her kids. I think she only mentioned the impact on them once. and it was just a casual "the kids are taking this hard"...other than that that's about it.

 

She didn't talk much about the kids because you were her lover and the kids were not relevant to the interaction you had with her.

 

But I would ask instead, lets suppose she moved out to be wth you. Have you thought whether you can handle 3 kids as step dad ? What if you wanted another kid with her? Just to be realistic.

 

What's funny is 30 minutes after returning from lunch, she disappeared. no longer here, didn't tell anyone she left. Maybe the truth hurt and she got a dose of reality she couldn't handle.

 

Yes, she must be pretty much upset, but let her deal with her choices.

[Circular]

The reason I brought up the question about kids is two-fold. One is that if she's not ever talking about her kids then this relationship is really a 'fantasy' for her being just her and Confused, not talking about the kids means she's escaping her reality; the H, the kids, the clean up, etc.. etc... I found it very wise with my xMW to pay attention to what she didn't say as much as what she did say.

 

The second piece is if she's not talking about her kids but she's telling Confused "I'll leave my H" then that's even more contradictory. What happens with the kids? Has she not thought that through? Or was she just lying to Confused to keep him stringing along? Because as East says, how is Confused going to feel about having 3 kids??

 

Just buckle your seatbelt Confused because the ride isn't over yet and it's guaranteed to get bumpy as you find within yourself the desire to want to compromise to satiate the addiction/bond you've created with her. Fight it tooth and nail, journal, do whatever is necessary to process it BUT do it without her.

 

Oh, and word to the wise for any future relationships, starting a relationship at work is the WORST thing possible, not only can it cost you your job but it's just messy because you can't get away from the other person if things don't work out, which equates to low productivity, etc... starting an A at work is 10x worse; lawsuits, firings, a ranting BS showing up there... ugly...

[confused_88]

I learned a lot today...about her, and about myself. I learned that she is determined to have her cake and eat it too. It's easy not to have to truly deal with working on her marriage if she can come to work and get an ego boost from me. It makes it easier to go back to her H at the end of the day. But now that I have removed myself from the equation, all she has left is her life with her H. Now it's time for her to be in the here and now. No more fantasy world where I pine for her, and it makes it easier for her to try and put her joke of a marriage together.

 

I also learned a lot by her statement that "I'm still my own person." And yes, I agree we are all individuals...no one can render that from us. But if she is truly committed to working it out with her H, she has to face facts. She made a mistake...and if he wants her to go NC with me, and she wants to truly work on the marriage, than she would honor that. Not say that "well I'm still my own person"...I don't even know how to begin to process that.

 

But I ultimately learned, and this may sound narcissistic, that I don't want to be #2. When things were great between us, I knew I was her #1. But over the last month, I realized that I had become #2. And that just made her unattractive to me. I starred at her when she was sitting next to me, and the butterflies were gone. I kissed her to prove a point to myself, and sure enough, I was right. Too much hurt and pain over the last month has poisoned what once was. I felt nothing. And it was the final nail in the coffin.

 

The questions about me and her kids are meaningless now. Before I would have said that I would be a great step-dad...I enjoy kids, and feel a close connection to my childhood, and can relate well. But these questions and answers belong to the ether now...where this relationship exists.

[spice4life]

I learned a lot today...about her, and about myself. I learned that she is determined to have her cake and eat it too. It's easy not to have to truly deal with working on her marriage if she can come to work and get an ego boost from me. It makes it easier to go back to her H at the end of the day. But now that I have removed myself from the equation, all she has left is her life with her H. Now it's time for her to be in the here and now. No more fantasy world where I pine for her, and it makes it easier for her to try and put her joke of a marriage together.

 

I also learned a lot by her statement that "I'm still my own person." And yes, I agree we are all individuals...no one can render that from us. But if she is truly committed to working it out with her H, she has to face facts. She made a mistake...and if he wants her to go NC with me, and she wants to truly work on the marriage, than she would honor that. Not say that "well I'm still my own person"...I don't even know how to begin to process that.

 

But I ultimately learned, and this may sound narcissistic, that I don't want to be #2. When things were great between us, I knew I was her #1. But over the last month, I realized that I had become #2. And that just made her unattractive to me. I starred at her when she was sitting next to me, and the butterflies were gone. I kissed her to prove a point to myself, and sure enough, I was right. Too much hurt and pain over the last month has poisoned what once was. I felt nothing. And it was the final nail in the coffin.

 

The questions about me and her kids are meaningless now. Before I would have said that I would be a great step-dad...I enjoy kids, and feel a close connection to my childhood, and can relate well. But these questions and answers belong to the ether now...where this relationship exists.

 

Wow confused88..that's awesome! If I run into difficulties again I'm following your example! Thanks for the update. It was very helpful!

Edited August 20, 2011 by spice4life

[MorningCoffee]

I learned a lot today...about her, and about myself. I learned that she is determined to have her cake and eat it too. It's easy not to have to truly deal with working on her marriage if she can come to work and get an ego boost from me. It makes it easier to go back to her H at the end of the day. But now that I have removed myself from the equation, all she has left is her life with her H. Now it's time for her to be in the here and now. No more fantasy world where I pine for her, and it makes it easier for her to try and put her joke of a marriage together.

 

I also learned a lot by her statement that "I'm still my own person." And yes, I agree we are all individuals...no one can render that from us. But if she is truly committed to working it out with her H, she has to face facts. She made a mistake...and if he wants her to go NC with me, and she wants to truly work on the marriage, than she would honor that. Not say that "well I'm still my own person"...I don't even know how to begin to process that.

 

But I ultimately learned, and this may sound narcissistic, that I don't want to be #2. When things were great between us, I knew I was her #1. But over the last month, I realized that I had become #2. And that just made her unattractive to me. I starred at her when she was sitting next to me, and the butterflies were gone. I kissed her to prove a point to myself, and sure enough, I was right. Too much hurt and pain over the last month has poisoned what once was. I felt nothing. And it was the final nail in the coffin.

 

The questions about me and her kids are meaningless now. Before I would have said that I would be a great step-dad...I enjoy kids, and feel a close connection to my childhood, and can relate well. But these questions and answers belong to the ether now...where this relationship exists.

 

 

Confused, if there were a way to change your LS name, this seems a good time to do it! You have caught on and very quickly, too, at least compared to me!

 

So much familiar in your story, similar to the MW I was involved with. I heard the same things, such as, "this is all I can give you right now, wish it was more," and the bolded "I'm my own person" line. While I have no doubt in my case that MW did not mean to be manipulative or cruel, the truth I finally figured out was that the "all I can give" line is meant to condition you (and me) to accept less in the A than any self-respecting man would in a "normal" relationship.

 

The second, bolded statement is a reflection of the fact that the MWomen who use this particular communication style, are letting us know that there will always be a #1 . . . and it ain't you or me, or their H! So incredibly selfish. MW in my case actually told me, in low contact nearly a year after D-Day, that she was working on her husband to agree that she could have a certain amount of contact with me. I don't know, but I would wager she offered a pledge there'd be no physical contact. And of course, from past experience, I have no doubt that, in her drive to satisfy her own indelible itch, she intended to use such an agreement, if she could get it, as a subterfuge to create situations where, if I followed my inclination, voila! we'd be right back in it.

 

But like you, when I finally got to the realization that I could no longer tolerate being in second place, I broke it off, telling her I want a relationship, not an affair.

 

You're standing up for yourself. Way to go. But you have not heard the last of her, Confused. Guard your heart.

 

Best wishes.

[East7]

Just buckle your seatbelt Confused because the ride isn't over yet and it's guaranteed to get bumpy as you find within yourself the desire to want to compromise to satiate the addiction/bond you've created with her. Fight it tooth and nail, journal, do whatever is necessary to process it BUT do it without her.

.

 

This is another great advice Confused. Momentally you have been very strong and took back your self-respect, but as Circular said be aware that it might be not over..

 

I had this moment too after we ended the A with xMW. Anger is a great protecting instinct and - as you- I thought it was really over but the emotional bond and addiction was still present. It took me several months (almost 1 year) to gradually be over emotionally. Like you I thought I was strong enough to deal with it but feelings don't dissipate that quick. The affairs create a very strong emotional addiction, much more than a normal relationship. It takes a LOT of hurt and deception to kill those lingering feelings.

 

One thing I am sure of, she will be back ! She is as much addicted as you are and she can't be over you right now. The loss of an OM is very painful for most of MWomen.

 

She has shown that she is not remorseful and not committed in her choice. She wants you (H/OM) both as she has never clearly rejected you. She has merely avoided conflict with her silence. Right now she is busy with keeping her H from walking away, but once she will comforted with him staying, she will direct that energy into getting you back. She will be sweet and test your will to respond to her need for attention - Expect innocent "how are you-s" and "would you get a coffee with me" kind of things.

 

That might be very misleading and the mistake most OM make at this stage (me included) is to think "if she is so persistent she still loves me..":rolleyes: In fact she has no intention to give you a normal relationship, it is only a selfish action to get back what she lost, your attention, love, connection..whatever she enjoyed in the A. If you let this happen, she will call it "friendship" and you will be even more confused and wondering what she wants to do. You will comfort her in the cake-eating mode and eventually reinforce her choice to stay with her H.

 

Others before you have learned it the hard way - We are making you save $$$ in counseling

[confused_88]

I agree with what you are all saying. I don't expect that my feelings for her will dissipate rapidly. I know they wont. Unfortunately, when I woke up this morning, I thought about her, as I have every other morning since this dreaded A started. And you're right, you can only ride the anger wave so far.

 

But for the first time since this all started, I finally found what I want. I want a healthy relationship...or at least a normal one. One where I am free of hiding, looking over my shoulder, worrying about will someone see us. Hell well I look back on it I feel like I was a fugitive, waiting for the Marshals to find me. That's no way to live.

 

I've had to view this as a drug addiction now. Sure, the withdrawals are god awful...painful, make me want to puke, curl up in a corner, and hide from the world. And I know if I continued the A, I'd feel better, short term. But I also know that nothing would ever change. She'd still have her cake and eat it too...and I'd be strung out on whatever love she felt like giving me. And like any addiction, the longer you stay addicted, the harder it becomes to get clean...and if you finally do, the cost has been tremendous.

 

So at this point I say no more, flush the pills down the drain...if you're going through hell, keep going.

[Heart On]

I could have written the same thing in regards to my xMM years ago,not to mention my Betrayal bond to my xH.

 

http://www.sexhelp.com/betrayal_bond.cfm

 

I just wanted to offer you a ray of hope...it DOES get better and easier the farther you get away from her.

 

I promise.

 

Love addiction(which is in effect no different than codendency,betrayal bonding or trama bonds) and healthy love are two very different animals.

 

One is healthy,one is not....and will leave you feeling gutted if you have put your entire being into someone who can't or won't reciprocate!

 

This helped me recognize my xMM addiction for what it was....codependency to a Narcissist.

 

http://loveaddicts.org/kindsofloveaddicts.html

 

Peace be with you..............And know,time heals all wounds,but finding the core issue within you that helped create and perpetuate this triangulated relationship is the only way you won't wind up in another one.

 

Be gentle with yourself and know...you are far from alone in your pain.

[confused_88]

so more than one of you has mentioned that this isn't over yet, and I haven't heard the last from her. I'm wondering, did I inadvertently say or not say something which would make this not over? And if I did, how can I ensure that she wont contact me again?

[stillafool]

I think it is over between the two of you, however I don't think this is the end of your MW having affairs. She will have an affair again with someone else. Why? Because she was over at your house kissing you when she had clearly told her husband it was over. The crap about "I am my own person" is saying she will tell her husband whatever he needs to hear to shut him up and get him off her scent, while she does what she wants to do anyway, behind his back. You are lucky to be on your way to getting over her. She will not change until she gets too old and ugly for anyoneto want to play with her except her husband.

[spice4life]

so more than one of you has mentioned that this isn't over yet, and I haven't heard the last from her. I'm wondering, did I inadvertently say or not say something which would make this not over? And if I did, how can I ensure that she wont contact me again?

 

If she contacts you, tell her to please stop and that you are no longer romantically attracted to her. That should do it. Only do this if she contacts you though. Don't break NC!

[Circular]

I'll just tell it like it was for me an A that lasted almost 3 years with someone that had been a friend and I had known for 7 years.

 

The day I walked away from the relationship with xMW I had all the similar thoughts you did. I was mad, felt used, felt dismissed, saw how selfish she was being was tired of the 'all I can give' statements, was glad to give her the boot. Matter of fact I even think I was easy on her but circumstances made it difficult to use both barrels. I figured she'd never come back, why would she? She'd been cold/distant for awhile, uncaring, not forthcoming but in the back of my head I knew she'd recommitted to her H for the sake of her kids - she was done, I was done. Out of my life, clean my hands, GOODBYE!

 

I was angry and strong for a good few weeks. Then the first email came, then the phone call, then the text message. I DIDNT respond. BUT, I had begun suffering, matter of fact I was completely blindsided by how attached I was to her. The anger started to wane, 'did I over react?' - what happened to the good ole days? Suddenly a lot of doubt set in, even though I knew deep down I was doing the right thing and I was struggling to find strength in that. I have no doubt if we'd been working together my mind would have started creating all these excuses to reconnect and contact her and slowly rebuild the A all over again - fortunately I didn't have anyway to see her and I forced myself not to respond to her.... that lasted about six weeks. Then I responded to something that seemed innocent enough, back and forth... then no communication back to NC, then i wound up seeing her at a party for a shared group of friends we have. And, well, that's been going on for about a year now. Periods of NC then some contact, almost always instigated by her.

 

I suppose my point is that you can't underestimate the connection you've created, additionally the relationship is ending on uncertain terms. Is it her? is that the reason? or is it the situation? It becomes very difficult to find closure externally or internally. I found even at my best times in the last year, where I was CERTAIN I was indifferent and 'over it' that when we exchanged just a simple email I was completely flabbergasted by what came up for me... OH it's still there and you'll be startled by how those feelings can raise their head up out of nowhere.

 

I'm back to NC now.. plan on staying there.

[confused_88]

I definitely hear what you are saying circular. I too did not give her both barrels yesterday, even though I wanted to. But I didn't see much point in it. I wanted to exit on the high ground. Let her look up at where I stand, and realize what she did, if she's even capable of that.

 

I suppose when the A was full bore, and life was great, the rose colored glasses were truly on. It was easy to ignore, or not pay attention to, a negative qualities of her. I mean after all, this was fantasy land, and life is great in fantasies. Plus with the limited time you ever really get in an A, both parties tend to put on their best faces. It was odd though, we did spend the better part of 9 days/nights together in Europe during our business trip. It really felt like a honeymoon of sorts, but it was just more of the fantasy. Never in all of this did I see the real world. Where she is a Mother of 3. Only when she started to disappear, and then started giving me these crumbs, did I finally start to see the real world...and moreover, the real person she is. She was not this selfless person that loved me unconditionally and would do anything for me. She never was. Not that she had to be, mind you. But what I ultimately saw was the selfishness that resides inside her. And I don't care how attractive or gorgeous you are, that makes you ugly, fast.

 

I'll admit, I still think about the good times we had together...but I see them in a whole new light. I don't see them through the rose colored glasses. I seem them in this haze, a fog if you will. I was in love with someone who didn't exist. If that was really truly who she was, I would still be in this, fighting for her no matter what the cost. But now that I realize who she really is, it makes it a lot easier for the love to wane a little bit more each day.

[confused_88]

 

I suppose my point is that you can't underestimate the connection you've created, additionally the relationship is ending on uncertain terms. Is it her? is that the reason? or is it the situation? It becomes very difficult to find closure externally or internally.

 

This is an exceptionally valid point. How do you find closure in a relationship (and I use that term loosely) that had no definition. You can't be certain how it started, it existed in a world that doesn't exist...so how can you ever expect rational closure. I don't think it's possible.

 

It's funny how you mentioned about being felt used. I actually told her that I felt like she used me. And oh man I must have pushed the right button, cause she got highly offended by it. It was funny to watch all the color evaporate out of her face when I said it.