Waiting for a Decision

[MissBee]

I may have it wrong but seems that I recall carrie saying that the wife confides the relationship troubles to carrie and carrie lends a supportive ear, meanwhile having an affair with her husband.

 

Affairs are really f'd up.........some more than others.

 

 

I can't even....

 

I have been in some effed up scenarios in my life or have been around others who have been, so I cannot pass judgment, but nonetheless when one says some things out loud it seems a million times worst. With the ex, when I started to speak about our former relationship openly, was when I realized that in my head it was confusing but OUT LOUD it was completely insane....

 

That's my new litmus test for my relationships...as I do think it is easier to sustain distortions in your mind versus when one faces it or says it out loud to others or writes it out in black and white. It is somehow a lot more "real" and "true to life" that way, for me. Kind of like proof reading papers, in my head I know what I want to say, so in proofing my own paper, especially while still writing it, it's hard to pick up the errors as my brain glosses over it, replacing mistakes with what I want it to say. But when I read it out loud, or put it down and come back to it or get others to read it, is when the mistakes are apparent.

[Silly_Girl]

That's my new litmus test for my relationships...as I do think it is easier to sustain distortions in your mind versus when one faces it or says it out loud to others or writes it out in black and white. It is somehow a lot more "real" and "true to life" that way, for me. Kind of like proof reading papers, in my head I know what I want to say, so in proofing my own paper, especially while still writing it, it's hard to pick up the errors as my brain glosses over it, replacing mistakes with what I want it to say. But when I read it out loud, or put it down and come back to it or get others to read it, is when the mistakes are apparent.

 

That's pretty much why I 'blurt' and share. Whilst in an abusive relationship

I would share with a couple of people (best friend and mum) the bare, loose facts. They found it odd that i was prepared to be upfront when the stereotype is to cover up and keep the facade. That was how I stayed in touch with reality. Out loud talking and accepting people questioning my actions and decisions. Lying to myself was, for me, the first significant sign of psychological danger.

 

I think it sounds odd when I say it back but during some very difficult and scary times that helped me stay in control, mentally.

 

No reflection any posters, just that the point made triggered an over-share

[Mimolicious]

Im having a rough day so thought Id give an update and get some feedback.

 

A quick recap of my situation.

 

MM married 19 years, three kids. He and I were best of friends for 6 years, and A has been going on for a year.

 

He told wife about affair about 8 months into the A. From the fallout of that he felt that he needed to give the marriage a last try , so if he ultimately left, he wouldn’t feel guilty. We both have attempted to cut off contact so many times its ridiculous to count. Im hesitant to once again say lets not speak until you’ve made a decision, because I don’t want to say it one more time if im not strong enough to follow through. I really should do that though.

 

So, what I did take to heart from the last round of advice is to set a date which I did. I gave it three months until the end of october for action to be taken. That part I feel good about.

 

He has been consistently saying in this last three weeks that he has decided to leave the marriage and will do so sometime in this next month (August) before the kids go back to school. We have talked so much about how our lives will look once we’re together. So here we are in August. Im trying to not have huge expectations, and am trying to remain neutral, because I know its one thing to say it and a whole other to do it. I also understand this is one of the biggest decisions he will ever make.

 

Why Im struggling so much today is recently he shared with me that he had an odd good day with his wife and felt in moments what they used to have early on and it made him very emotional and sad and threw him back into confusion land. He has been in confusion now for the last few days. I am the lucky one who now gets to hear how confused he is.

 

Listen, I expect him to have moments like that after so many years together. I imagine there will be many more, but its really ridiculously hard to go from hearing him finally sound definitive to go back to uncertainty about his choice.

 

Also, if he leaves his marriage, I’d like it to be because he is clear his marriage is over. Is that realistic, who knows.

 

And I will stick to my timeline, because this is ridiculously hard and not fair to anyone, his wife included. Im sure she’s feeling all the same uncertainty I am.

 

I’m posting today because I’m having a difficult time with all of this. I am clear this is the first and last affair I will ever have in my life, because this is just hellacious.

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand how exactly was trying to "work it out" with his W and you were still in the picture? Can't have it both ways. At the end, it is not going to work because he was never really committed to fixing anything.

 

You know that as an outsider, reading your post and the scenario you are painting this can go both ways. You and his W can be living parallel lives for all you know. The same feelings that he is displaying about his R with her, can be the same way that he feels about your R with him.

This dude should seek some professional help and perhaps find the source of his huge void.

[whichwayisup]

So she has no idea you're the OW? He's told her he had an affair but never pointed his finger your way..? And, you're friendly with her as well?

 

Anyway, this guy is a piece of work. He is playing BOTH of you and you two are BOTH playing her.

[SunsetRed]

He's supposedly moving OUT before the school year begins in the beginning of September - but hasn't TOLD his wife yet??? It's August 10th - he's got 20 days to have "the talk" with his wife, decide how their real property is to be divided, come up with a successful co-parenting plan with his wife, get things reconciled with his 3 kids so they don't hate him or resent him, see a lawyer to get his financial and legal ducks in a row, find a place to live, furnish that place and make it functional, and make that final walk out the door of the marital home - in essence, deserting his family.

 

All in the space of 20 days?????

 

I'm willing to bet my house - and my dog - that the next 'deadline' he gives you will be, "after the holidays." Or his wife will suddenly be "diagnosed with a serious or terminal illness" that will prevent him from leaving for an untold time into the future. Or one of his kids will face some kind of "life-threatening event and he won't be able to leave, because what kind of a father would he BE if he did???"

 

Yup...be on guard - a cheesy excuse about serious/terminal illness or an "I'm going to leave after the holidays" excuse is on it's way.....

 

OP, I wish I could give you a big hug and save you from hurt. I do think Woman in Blue has a point. Anytime a man becomes "confused" or "torn" , it's time to head for the hills. "Confused" is a way to let you down easy or to string you along.

 

There will always be some excuse for why he can't leave. Even when his kids leave home, one of them will have a wedding or a baby or a college crisis and he'll have to be there for that. He'll also use the excuse "well, their mother (remember wife) and I still need to work toward the common goal of raising our kids and our kids will always be our kids.

 

Its all BS. Like Fooled Once said, if a man wants to be with you, he'll move mountains to be with you. When people want to get divorced, they get divorced..pure and simple. Hopefully I haven't sounded too harsh. I wish you the best. I know I've allowed my heart to be sullied around and have lost my dignity a thousand times over and I dont wish that on anyone.

[Anna101]

I don't think he's going to leave. The biggest warning sign you've got is that he has good days with her. He doesn't sound like it's over enough in his head for him to really make a move and he's using you as a sounding board just because he can.

 

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

[carrie999]

OK...I'm totally lost.

 

How can you POSSIBLY be having an affair with her husband...without her knowledge...and "be there for them both"?

 

I just don't see how that could really, honestly be true.

 

You're working in direct opposition to anything "for her" by having an affair with her H, and all that that entails.

 

I don't get it. How can you feel that you're there for them both in the light of this?

 

I'm there for him. I'm also the only person she talks to about anything anymore. She has never had a strong support structure since she relies on her H for everything. She doesn't make plans with her friends (who are now more like distant acquaintances) unless her H has something else to do. Her sister is the closest person to her, and she's basically a superficial, snotty, entitled little brat who has recently transformed into a world-class Bridezilla who has driven everyone away but her.

 

During the most recent of a million catastrophes, Bridezilla forced her to pay for a new dress because the alterations wouldn't work. When MM flipped out and drew the line, his wife burst into tears and said she doesn't have anyone anymore, including him.

 

She doesn't know about the A. She knows there's a clear EA, because I'm the closest person to him. But I'm also the only one who listens to her two hour rants about work and family. He's there, but he's also only home for a few hours every day, and does all of the cooking, gardening, and the bulk of the work around the house, so she follows him around and rants. When she invites me to hang out, I just listen (because I'm not working 60-80 hour weeks) and give her feedback.

 

Hence the fact that I'm there for her, mostly because someone needs to be there, and in their separation, it can't be solely him. Otherwise, she's sitting alone watching reality TV and drinking too much.

 

I'm not there for her in the way that she needs...she needs IC, friends who aren't primarily his (forget the A...I'm his friend first and foremost), and probably AA. I am a lifeline for her. I'm someone outside of their marriage that does care about her enough to listen and keep pushing her towards real help.

 

OWL, I know you'll never understand this given all your posts, but I'm not an evil person, and I really want her to be okay. This marriage has been over for years. Demonize him and me all you want, but nothing would be different if we weren't having the affair. I'd still be his friend first, and want to help her however I could, for her sake and for his.

[woinlove]

I'm there for him. I'm also the only person she talks to about anything anymore. She has never had a strong support structure since she relies on her H for everything. She doesn't make plans with her friends (who are now more like distant acquaintances) unless her H has something else to do. Her sister is the closest person to her, and she's basically a superficial, snotty, entitled little brat who has recently transformed into a world-class Bridezilla who has driven everyone away but her.

 

During the most recent of a million catastrophes, Bridezilla forced her to pay for a new dress because the alterations wouldn't work. When MM flipped out and drew the line, his wife burst into tears and said she doesn't have anyone anymore, including him.

 

She doesn't know about the A. She knows there's a clear EA, because I'm the closest person to him. But I'm also the only one who listens to her two hour rants about work and family. He's there, but he's also only home for a few hours every day, and does all of the cooking, gardening, and the bulk of the work around the house, so she follows him around and rants. When she invites me to hang out, I just listen (because I'm not working 60-80 hour weeks) and give her feedback.

 

Hence the fact that I'm there for her, mostly because someone needs to be there, and in their separation, it can't be solely him. Otherwise, she's sitting alone watching reality TV and drinking too much.

 

I'm not there for her in the way that she needs...she needs IC, friends who aren't primarily his (forget the A...I'm his friend first and foremost), and probably AA. I am a lifeline for her. I'm someone outside of their marriage that does care about her enough to listen and keep pushing her towards real help.

 

OWL, I know you'll never understand this given all your posts, but I'm not an evil person, and I really want her to be okay. This marriage has been over for years. Demonize him and me all you want, but nothing would be different if we weren't having the affair. I'd still be his friend first, and want to help her however I could, for her sake and for his.

 

In general, you didn't address the point that Owl and I were wondering about - how do you reconcile deceiving her and having a secret A with her H behind her back with being there for her. You seem to have no respect for her, she doesn't even deserve to know what reality she lives. However, I know you are decided on how to treat others, so I'm not going to delve into this further. But I'll comment on the bolded:

 

In your earlier posts you talked about how MM loved his W, was "really happy" in his M, didn't want to leave his W,... but now you are saying his M was actually dead when you and he were saying those things and had been dead for years? If both spouses say they are happy, love each other, and want to stay married, how exactly is that a dead M? I understand that his M is dead now (even if his W is being kept in the dark about this), I'm just curious why he felt he had a happy M prior to and at the start of your A when it was actually a dead M.

 

Do you think MM was deluding himself before when he was faithful and didn't have to lie, but by having a secret A and leading a double life, he is now able to think more clearly and recognize that what he thought was a good M that he didn't want to end was actually a dead M? Doesn't seem plausible to me. I wonder if the A and all the deception that goes along with it did not change his feelings about his M and his W and cause what they shared together to die.

[whichwayisup]

OWL, I know you'll never understand this given all your posts, but I'm not an evil person, and I really want her to be okay. This marriage has been over for years. Demonize him and me all you want, but nothing would be different if we weren't having the affair. I'd still be his friend first, and want to help her however I could, for her sake and for his.

 

And what you don't seem to get understand is, both you and her husband are making a total FOOL of her, right under her nose! This situation is awful and it does have the receipe for disaster! This is the type of affair triangle that ends up on the news and someone dies.

 

You think and believe you are her friend but on such a false pretense! It's all built on lies, manipulation and selfishness. Because you're smack in the midst of this, you just cannot see how unhealthy and actually sick this situation truly is.

 

Oh and before anybody jumps at me for being judgemental, I'm not at all.

[TigerCub]

carrie

not to be rude or anything, but you seem to have a lot of information about he and their marriage, yet have you ever even met her? is it at all possible that he may be exaggerating or outright lying about how things are at home?

 

Please take some time to really think about this. He wouldn't be the first guy to exaggerate or lie to rationalize his being in an affair both to himself and to the person he's having the affair with. It may be a way for him to rationalize his behavior so he doesn't feel guilty. Also, you may be less likely to stay in the affair were he to tell you that she is a kind, decent nice person who was actually pretty good to him.

 

One word of advice... take it for what it is worth. he idea that you want to "help" her is ludicrous. Right now, you are , for lack of a better term, her enemy as you are participating in a relationship that is causing her pain and will most likely continue to do so. You are not her friend, you are not her helper or supporter. Your actions are hurting her. I'm not saying you are a horrible, bad person, just that i think you need to be a bit more realistic here and see things for what they really are. Your husband is cheating on her with you. He is taking time and energy away from his marriage and spending it on you. Should he decide to end his marriage to be with you, she will very likely be devastated.

 

Own your actions and choices and don't rationalize them away.

 

Carrie knows her - from what it sounds like, Carrie is the woman's only "friend" and confidant .

[woinlove]

carrie

not to be rude or anything, but you seem to have a lot of information about he and their marriage, yet have you ever even met her? is it at all possible that he may be exaggerating or outright lying about how things are at home?

 

Please take some time to really think about this. He wouldn't be the first guy to exaggerate or lie to rationalize his being in an affair both to himself and to the person he's having the affair with. It may be a way for him to rationalize his behavior so he doesn't feel guilty. Also, you may be less likely to stay in the affair were he to tell you that she is a kind, decent nice person who was actually pretty good to him.

 

One word of advice... take it for what it is worth. he idea that you want to "help" her is ludicrous. Right now, you are , for lack of a better term, her enemy as you are participating in a relationship that is causing her pain and will most likely continue to do so. You are not her friend, you are not her helper or supporter. Your actions are hurting her. I'm not saying you are a horrible, bad person, just that i think you need to be a bit more realistic here and see things for what they really are. Your husband is cheating on her with you. He is taking time and energy away from his marriage and spending it on you. Should he decide to end his marriage to be with you, she will very likely be devastated.

 

Own your actions and choices and don't rationalize them away.

 

Carrie and MM and their respective original partner/spouse were all friends when Carrie and MM got together, so she definitely knows the BW.

 

Actually, I don't think either Carrie or MM is saying the BW is not kind or decent. Early in the A the BW was described in extremely favorable terms, even as an "amazing person", although admittedly now Carrie's description of her doesn't sound so amazing - more like a clingy, mindless, do-nothing, alcoholic with no real friends.

[xxoo]

I'm not there for her in the way that she needs...she needs IC, friends who aren't primarily his (forget the A...I'm his friend first and foremost), and probably AA. I am a lifeline for her. I'm someone outside of their marriage that does care about her enough to listen and keep pushing her towards real help.

 

 

You know the depth of her problems, and, through poor boundaries on your part, you've allowed her to come to depend on you and trust you.

 

This is codependence to the extreme--not only rescuing the helpless MM, but also his alcoholic wife!

 

Have you considered that your willingness to listen to her rant for hours (after all the others that care about her have cut her off--STOPPED enabling) meets her needs and prevents her from being forced to seek true help? And your willingness to be with MM does the same for him?

 

You see yourself as her lifeline....but your actions could be her undoing...

Edited August 25, 2011 by xxoo

[Owl]

You see yourself as her lifeline....but your actions could be her undoing...

 

This is the breakdown that I don't get.

 

How can you truly be her friend..."be there for her"...while at the same time carrying on an emotional/physical affair with her husband, and hoping that he'll leave at some point?

 

Those two roles...her friend and his lover...are in direct conflict with each other.

 

I'm not demonizing you. What I AM trying to do is to point this "break" out to you...I'm trying to get you to understand where you're deceiving yourself in all of this.

 

You can't be both her best friend, and the person actively working to destroy her relationship with her H.

 

Be honest with yourself at least. Recognize that what you're doing is NOT in her best interests, it's not being her friend. You lie to her everyday, every moment that you spend with her letting her believe that you're truly her friend and there to support her.

 

You said that she's got to be aware of the EA side of this...that's not always true. She may TRUST you because of your friendship, because you're the one person she counts as a friend...just as she trusts him. She may not want to believe that you'd truly be capable of/willing to do this to her.

 

The bottom line is that you are. Knowingly, intentionally, willfully doing so.

 

So is he.

 

It's not "demonizing" either of you to say this. It's a simple summary of the situation.

 

It's where you've chosen to be. Own that.

 

And either do something about it, or accept it as where you want to be.

[cavedweller]

carrie,

 

So, you are his wife's best friend..Am I right here?

[xxoo]

Carrie, a suggestion:

 

"I'm sorry. I can't be the person who helps you with these problems. I know you need someone to talk to, but I can't do that anymore. Here's the number for a good counselor, and here's information about AA."

 

If she calls and seems on the edge, call 911. Otherwise, repeat the above as needed, and end the conversation.

[phillyfan]

Thanks for the feedback. As for the bolded sentence, Im just saying that Im hoping he leaves because the marriage is over, and am wondering if thats possible, because after an affair his feelings for me will most likely impact that choice. Im just hoping it is because the marriage is over.

 

I believe I will stick to the timeline, because this needs resolution. As for you saying this will be a very difficult road for both he and I regardless of the outcome, I couldn't agree more with you. We have both talked about that often how whatever path is chosen it will involve a great deal of pain.

 

Dude i think he is a family man, who is goin thru the normal ups n downs of married life, it aint really possible 2 feel passion for a wife afta 19 yrs, but u can feel love. So mayb he loved bein reminded of that feelin wen he was wit u. I bet he loves u in his own way, no dont want 2 hurt u, but i think he wants to stay, good on u for the deadline, walk away girl if he dont meet it and dont look back.

 

I am not suprised he is findin this hard, he is gona have 2 face the tuff decision soon.

[woinlove]

Carrie herself said that mm's wife is aware there is a ea, but yet what I don't get is how Carrie doesn't see the correlation between the affair and the downward spiral that his wife is on. Well duh......no wonder the poor woman is going crazy. She probably suspects there is more than a ea and it's driving her nuts and carrie and mm are gaslighting her. I feel so sorry for the wife, no one deserves what carrie and the mm are doing to her. Pretending to be her friend, yet having an affair with her husband............where is my puke bucket???

 

Also no one needs to demonize carrie, its's all right there in black and white.

 

I agree that no one deserves to be treated how Carrie and MM and treated his BW and, of course, one would feel sorry for her. Strangely, if I had to choose, I would choose to be in the BW's shoes rather than in Carrie's.

 

Carrie came to LS first saying she was behaving badly by cheating on a wonderful man, who she loved, and the BW was also a wonderful woman who MM loved, but they were sure their A would never affect their marriages so it wasn't so bad. Once she even decided it was wrong enough that she said she was ending the A.

 

Now she writes these soulless posts that would make most people flinch, while she seems completely oblivious to it all. It is almost a fascinating transformation to watch - except that it involves real people and their real lives, their loves, their trust, their friendships. One has to wonder how a soul heals after all this - and I am thinking of Carrie as much as the BW.

 

Sorry to be writing this synopsis of what I see in your posts, Carrie, but to an outside observer, it is mind-bending (and not in any good way) reading some of your recent posts. In another post today you described yourself as "very honest". May I suggest next time you are "supporting" the BW and you look into her eyes, repeat that to yourself "I am very honest" and see if your heart has any reaction to the words. You might learn something. Or maybe not.

[phillyfan]

DUDE I just read the post back - u r the wifes BEST FRIEND? Dude WTF. U r doin crazy things 4 this affair, thats real bad, if she found out she mite do somethin pretty bad 2 herself, that is 1 big betrayal, it dont get worse than wat u n the dude r doin 2 her.

 

Does the dude know u 2 r friends? He aint no good if he sits by n sees that typa friendship - he is destroyin his wife. I wudnt trust a dude who sat bak n saw that happenin 2 his wife, he aint rite in the head.

[reboot]

it aint really possible 2 feel passion for a wife afta 19 yrs

 

Did you figure this out all on your own or did someone tell you this? By the way, it isn't true.

 

Dude.

[Silly_Girl]

Pretending to be her friend, yet having an affair with her husband............where is my puke bucket???

 

 

Where indeed?

 

[woinlove]

Carrie, a suggestion:

 

"I'm sorry. I can't be the person who helps you with these problems. I know you need someone to talk to, but I can't do that anymore. Here's the number for a good counselor, and here's information about AA."

 

If she calls and seems on the edge, call 911. Otherwise, repeat the above as needed, and end the conversation.

 

That would be excellent advice in general, but Carrie has written in the past about how she felt compelled to continue spending a lot of time with MM and his W so that no one would get suspicious about their A. I get the impression Carrie thinks a change in her interactions with the BW could blow the cover on their A. Continuing to hide the A seems like the highest priority.

[carrie999]

carrie

not to be rude or anything, but you seem to have a lot of information about he and their marriage, yet have you ever even met her? is it at all possible that he may be exaggerating or outright lying about how things are at home?

 

I'm sorry, frozensprouts, but I can't respond to anything beyond your first few sentences. Did you even read through my post before quoting the whole thing and responding to it? I explained very clearly that she turns to me for support, so yes, I know her well. And I'm around them most of the time they're together. And her husband and I are together more often than she is with him at all. Huh?

[carrie999]

Also no one needs to demonize carrie, its's all right there in black and white.

 

Uh huh. And THAT is why there is no point posting here.

[carrie999]

In general, you didn't address the point that Owl and I were wondering about - how do you reconcile deceiving her and having a secret A with her H behind her back with being there for her. You seem to have no respect for her, she doesn't even deserve to know what reality she lives.

 

I don't consider her a friend, because I'm in no position to be her friend. But she has isolated herself to the point where MM was her only lifeline. Due to my presence in their lives, she has started leaning on me more than him. It sucks, but I won't shut her out, either. I've been trying to get her to reconnect with her friends. Long story. I've only updated here once in a while. It became exhausting trying to be honest, knowing that I'd spend hours defending myself, too.

 

In your earlier posts you talked about how MM loved his W, was "really happy" in his M, didn't want to leave his W,... but now you are saying his M was actually dead when you and he were saying those things and had been dead for years? If both spouses say they are happy, love each other, and want to stay married, how exactly is that a dead M? I understand that his M is dead now (even if his W is being kept in the dark about this), I'm just curious why he felt he had a happy M prior to and at the start of your A when it was actually a dead M.

 

Yes, I said all that for the first few months. He was deluding himself early on, and it worked for a while. He is very tied to family, and to very old-school religious beliefs. He's been struggling with it for years in ways I won't get into here. But he entered into marriage very seriously, and had no intentions of ever leaving, no matter how unhappy he was. So he kept the marriage alive by being spontaneous and romantic and sweet. He planned small trips, gave her random gifts, and just tried to keep it alive, even in the months leading up to our affair.

 

What I didn't know then was that he did so not only because it's in his nature, but because he felt the relationship slipping away at a time when everything else was, too. He's been in a family crisis that has changed him in many ways over the course of more than five years. Every time he's brought up the pain he's feeling, she's broken down and he's ended up comforting her. I've said this before on this forum...he ended up being the sole source of emotional support for his whole family, including her, and had nobody to talk to himself. He wouldn't seek professional help given what his family dealt with in that way. So he was truly alone.

 

At least six months ago, he finally told her how much he'd changed. This was while he was doing some household project, and she was just hanging out, and she finally just listened. He outlined how his entire belief system had been shattered, including his faith and views about everything. He told her this over the course of 2-3 hours. He said he never blamed her for not being there because she has her own stuff to deal with, but that he finally understood how much he'd changed on a fundamental level. He told her I was the first person he could confide in because I wasn't in the situation. (Really, she's in it, but not even close to how much he is, and should have been there for him. She NEVER helped him through any part of it, but he didn't want her to feel guilty, since he was already halfway out the door, so to speak).

 

And she never brought it up again. She pretended the next day that everything was just fine. That was when he truly decided it was over, though he knew it a few months before that talk. She is seriously deluded. I equate her to Brie on Desperate Housewives...not because she's the homemaker (far from it), but because she's that unwilling to confront any problems head-on. They had a huge blow-out a month ago in which they both recognized that the marriage was failing or already failed, and the same night, she was smiling and being sweet and pretending it never happened. She is in complete denial. And I haven't even gotten into their sexual problems, which he addressed years ago and nothing happened.

 

So yes, their marriage has been dead or dying since the first year. Our affair didn't change it, but definitely woke him up to it. My questions when I last posted about myself were related to the fact that he did finally realize it, but I was fearful that he'd leave me regardless.

 

Do you think MM was deluding himself before when he was faithful and didn't have to lie, but by having a secret A and leading a double life, he is now able to think more clearly and recognize that what he thought was a good M that he didn't want to end was actually a dead M? Doesn't seem plausible to me. I wonder if the A and all the deception that goes along with it did not change his feelings about his M and his W and cause what they shared together to die.

 

I think I've answered that. He WAS deluding himself for years. Now that it's ending, I've asked him repeatedly to take whatever time alone he needs. I know that our affair didn't cause this, but I want him to know that he should be sure that there was no cause and effect here. He's already grieved, and is still mourning the loss in spurts, but he's sure that it was already over. If they stayed together, they'd be the couple in American Beauty who had a seemingly perfect life but were internally self-destructing.

 

And he's past questioning it now. Now, his only concern is for her well-being...mine too. She's the classic Stepford wife who won't be honest with anyone, even herself, about her deepest and darkest fears and feelings. She'll drink too much, eat too much, and exhibit a wide array of self-destructive behaviors, but still pretend she's just fine and deny any questions to the contrary.

[woinlove]

I think I've answered that. He WAS deluding himself for years. Now that it's ending, I've asked him repeatedly to take whatever time alone he needs. I know that our affair didn't cause this, but I want him to know that he should be sure that there was no cause and effect here. He's already grieved, and is still mourning the loss in spurts, but he's sure that it was already over. If they stayed together, they'd be the couple in American Beauty who had a seemingly perfect life but were internally self-destructing.

 

And he's past questioning it now. Now, his only concern is for her well-being...mine too. She's the classic Stepford wife who won't be honest with anyone, even herself, about her deepest and darkest fears and feelings. She'll drink too much, eat too much, and exhibit a wide array of self-destructive behaviors, but still pretend she's just fine and deny any questions to the contrary.

 

What BB meant when she said it was all here in black and white is that anyone can read your sequence of posts here over the past year. Some day, you might be able to read them and see what they actually say too.

 

I know you believe MM was delusional, when at the start of the A he said he was happy and didn't want to leave his W and you were delusional when you said the same thing and you both were delusional when you described the BW as wonderful and amazing. And you believe you now have stopped being delusional, you know what happy really is now and what the BW is really like.

 

Now that the delusion has passed, you know BW is actually as pathetic as you describe and she "won't be honest with anyone" unlike you who, in your own words, is "very honest". How could she deny the reality of her life - it's not like you two have worked hard to hide from her what is really going on. Oh wait, go back and read your posts about how hard you've been working at that month after month, just how devious you two were, arranging nice shared couple time so she wouldn't suspect a thing. It's all there in black and white. Oh well, her fault anyway, that she denies - she is just so pathetic in her denial.

 

And, thank the heavens her WS's only concern is for her anyway, despite how pathetic she is. The BW is just so amazingly fortunate to have the two of you, so honest and caring, looking out for her well-being. And, if MM is still delusional in thinking his long, ongoing A could have any cause and effect, hopefully, with your guidance, his mind will clear soon and he'll realize he's had the perfect no-effect affair.

 

Honestly, I don't think there is anything that I can say to you in your current state that would make any difference at all. I do hope you and MM manage to extricate yourself from BW's life very soon, as I am not sure when the accumulating damage to all of you will heal. As much as you believe you are helping, you are actually harming. Really harming. People are fragile. Harm them enough and horrible, horrible things can happen. Some things don't ever heal.