the sex / relationship question

[bluenightowl]

I have read that many of you men PUA's out there, swear to never ask for exclusivity in a relationship. i.e. this is the job of a women when she shows a high level of interest and it does a man no good to ask when you is not ready and she feels pressured. That all makes sense to me.

 

Given that background. What do you PUA's and all of you think once sex is involved, no matter how early or late. In my mind that changes things.. She is either after fun.. or a relationship and she might even be having fun and looking for a BBD.

 

In my mind a guy should define his boundaries, and after sex or perhaps just before decide if this woman actually cares for him beyond sex. If sex is your goal, well no problem, but I'm speaking for those who want to seek a good woman who is crazy about you.

 

How would the Alpha male behave? And how would women want the Alpha male to behave to keep her interested after having sex. In that situation might asking for exclusivity be okay?

[phineas]

Sex = I won't sleep with other women.

It takes months to figure out if I want a relationship with a woman.

 

She won't get those months unless we are having sex within the first month.

 

My past experiences have taught me if I deviate from those criteria at all with a woman I will of wound up having wasted my time on an attention whore.

[Cypress25]

I'm a woman and I have never been the one to ask for an exclusive relationship. I've been in 3 long-term relationships. Each time, it was the guy who asked me for a relationship, after about 4-5 weeks of dating. I never even brought it up before that. Two out of the three guys, I would describe as alpha.

 

I've also never had sex outside of a committed relationship. Casual sex does not appeal to me; I have no interest in having sex with a guy who is not my boyfriend. If he really cares about me, he'll wait. If all he cares about is sex, then he can get it from someone else.

 

So it's not true that alpha men will never ask for a relationship, and it's not true that sex is a requirement before it becomes an official relationship. You're not going to blow your chances by asking for exclusivity, as long as you don't ask too early. So if you want a relationship with the woman, then ask her. It won't make you any less alpha, and it won't make her lose interest.

[sagetalk]

1. I have read that many of you men PUA's out there, swear to never ask for exclusivity in a relationship. i.e. this is the job of a women when she shows a high level of interest and it does a man no good to ask when you is not ready and she feels pressured. That all makes sense to me.

 

2. How would the Alpha male behave? And how would women want the Alpha male to behave to keep her interested after having sex. In that situation might asking for exclusivity be okay?

 

1. Generally, it's a bad idea to ask a girl to make the relationship more serious. Show her with your actions and let her say the words. Words said incorrectly can get you in a heck of a lot of trouble fast especially if you haven't had sex with her.

 

2. Forget about alpha males. Sure they get tons of girls, but at the very high price of treating women horribly. It's not needed, all you need is one great one, not one-hundred so-so ones. You don't need to act like them to get just one.

 

Sex changes everything, everything with women. Before sex you have little connection with them. With sex comes a certain level of attachment that never really seems to ever go away (particularly if she has a low number of partners). Treat it with great respect.

 

In short, before sex don't open your yap about the advancing relationship, do it with actions. After sex, don't open your yap about advancing the relationship, do it with your ACTIONS (call her a little more, come over a little more, start bringing her around your family), but don't do it with words until she mentions it. It's not a golden rule, but it's a great way to know if she's into to you big time or not without getting massively rejected.

[bluenightowl]

1. Generally, it's a bad idea to ask a girl to make the relationship more serious. Show her with your actions and let her say the words. Words said incorrectly can get you in a heck of a lot of trouble fast especially if you haven't had sex with her.

 

2. Forget about alpha males. Sure they get tons of girls, but at the very high price of treating women horribly. It's not needed, all you need is one great one, not one-hundred so-so ones. You don't need to act like them to get just one.

 

Sex changes everything, everything with women. Before sex you have little connection with them. With sex comes a certain level of attachment that never really seems to ever go away (particularly if she has a low number of partners). Treat it with great respect.

 

In short, before sex don't open your yap about the advancing relationship, do it with actions. After sex, don't open your yap about advancing the relationship, do it with your ACTIONS (call her a little more, come over a little more, start bringing her around your family), but don't do it with words until she mentions it. It's not a golden rule, but it's a great way to know if she's into to you big time or not without getting massively rejected.

 

I think you are right to a point. I agree to not yap after sex. Enjoy your time together, but if she makes it clear she is going to continue to date other people after sex, then what?

 

I think there are so many sexy and amazing women out there, and I see guys bending over backwards for women all the time.

 

I think she might respect a guy more if he says he doesn't date more than one after sex. That's seems like a confident response to me.

[grkBoy]

When my GF told me she loved me and started tearing my clothes off, I asked her to be my girlfriend and for us to have a relationship.

 

Forget power plays. If a girl is going to use your asking her for commitment against you, then it speaks volumes on why you should not be with her.

 

This goes for women too. If a man is seeing you, dating you, sleeping with you, etc...for weeks or months and yet won't even mention commitment, say something and be ready to walk away if he hands you excuses. Unless of course you're happy with things being "open".

 

I'm so tired of this idea that it's about "who gets power?" Maybe a true showing of power is when a man or a woman can happily be single and alone. So when you ask someone you think is special to be your SO, that you can show strength and walk away if he/she doesn't give you the answer you want.

 

Maybe instead of people looking to trick, manipulate, or nudge others into the places we want them, we should simply leave those people to die alone. Let them all grow older and endlessly complain how there's no "decent men" or "decent women" out there. Let them come up with 1000 reasons why they're happy they're free and alone...until they get drunk and suddenly tell how much they want to find someone.

 

Call me stubborn, but I used to work my tail off to try to get women to like me. No more. Yes, I found Ms Right, but even before that I freed myself of this stupid pressure to succeed in this. I feel no pity when I meet a man or woman my age who claims there's no "decent people" out there. No one is worth jumping through hoops for. NO ONE.

 

The true "strength" is when men and women understand and accept that. Live by it. Call the shots on their lives and only allow in those who will be a partner and a benefit to one another...not someone you have to "work on" or "train" or "trick" to make things happen.

[sagetalk]

When my GF told me she loved me and started tearing my clothes off, I asked her to be my girlfriend and for us to have a relationship.

 

Forget power plays. If a girl is going to use your asking her for commitment against you, then it speaks volumes on why you should not be with her.

 

There it is in bold, that is an advancement of the relationship in words started by her. She said it, you didn't and it worked. It has nothing to do with power. It is allowing her to do what she is much better at (guiding the emotional part of the relationship), and you to do what you are better at (taking action). It's a great combination.

[grkBoy]

Frankly, if I was ready to say it, I would have said it first...even if she freaked and ran.

 

I think it's more manly and strong to have the guts to say and it stand by it. It's weaker to hide and wait/hope she says it first.

 

In her case, she just let it out before I got to that point where I'd be the one saying it.

 

 

Nothing about power play. I've said before my initial guarding was more waiting to see if this girl was serious or if she was holding me at "maybe" and then jumping ship the moment a BBD comes along...like so many other women have done in my past.

[serial muse]

When my GF told me she loved me and started tearing my clothes off, I asked her to be my girlfriend and for us to have a relationship.

 

Forget power plays. If a girl is going to use your asking her for commitment against you, then it speaks volumes on why you should not be with her.

 

This goes for women too. If a man is seeing you, dating you, sleeping with you, etc...for weeks or months and yet won't even mention commitment, say something and be ready to walk away if he hands you excuses. Unless of course you're happy with things being "open".

 

I'm so tired of this idea that it's about "who gets power?" Maybe a true showing of power is when a man or a woman can happily be single and alone. So when you ask someone you think is special to be your SO, that you can show strength and walk away if he/she doesn't give you the answer you want.

 

Maybe instead of people looking to trick, manipulate, or nudge others into the places we want them, we should simply leave those people to die alone. Let them all grow older and endlessly complain how there's no "decent men" or "decent women" out there. Let them come up with 1000 reasons why they're happy they're free and alone...until they get drunk and suddenly tell how much they want to find someone.

 

Call me stubborn, but I used to work my tail off to try to get women to like me. No more. Yes, I found Ms Right, but even before that I freed myself of this stupid pressure to succeed in this. I feel no pity when I meet a man or woman my age who claims there's no "decent people" out there. No one is worth jumping through hoops for. NO ONE.

 

The true "strength" is when men and women understand and accept that. Live by it. Call the shots on their lives and only allow in those who will be a partner and a benefit to one another...not someone you have to "work on" or "train" or "trick" to make things happen.

 

Great post. 100% agree. (I was going to bold all of the bits I like, but there are too many.)

 

This kind of confidence is sexy in any gender.

[thatone]

1. Generally, it's a bad idea to ask a girl to make the relationship more serious. Show her with your actions and let her say the words. Words said incorrectly can get you in a heck of a lot of trouble fast especially if you haven't had sex with her.

 

2. Forget about alpha males. Sure they get tons of girls, but at the very high price of treating women horribly. It's not needed, all you need is one great one, not one-hundred so-so ones. You don't need to act like them to get just one.

 

Sex changes everything, everything with women. Before sex you have little connection with them. With sex comes a certain level of attachment that never really seems to ever go away (particularly if she has a low number of partners). Treat it with great respect.

 

In short, before sex don't open your yap about the advancing relationship, do it with actions. After sex, don't open your yap about advancing the relationship, do it with your ACTIONS (call her a little more, come over a little more, start bringing her around your family), but don't do it with words until she mentions it. It's not a golden rule, but it's a great way to know if she's into to you big time or not without getting massively rejected.

 

actions are all fine and good but it depends on the quality of your words as well .

 

the right words go a long way. especially when there's some sort of argument or issue of contention.

[bluenightowl]

When my GF told me she loved me and started tearing my clothes off, I asked her to be my girlfriend and for us to have a relationship.

 

Forget power plays. If a girl is going to use your asking her for commitment against you, then it speaks volumes on why you should not be with her.

 

This goes for women too. If a man is seeing you, dating you, sleeping with you, etc...for weeks or months and yet won't even mention commitment, say something and be ready to walk away if he hands you excuses. Unless of course you're happy with things being "open".

 

I'm so tired of this idea that it's about "who gets power?" Maybe a true showing of power is when a man or a woman can happily be single and alone. So when you ask someone you think is special to be your SO, that you can show strength and walk away if he/she doesn't give you the answer you want.

 

Maybe instead of people looking to trick, manipulate, or nudge others into the places we want them, we should simply leave those people to die alone. Let them all grow older and endlessly complain how there's no "decent men" or "decent women" out there. Let them come up with 1000 reasons why they're happy they're free and alone...until they get drunk and suddenly tell how much they want to find someone.

 

Call me stubborn, but I used to work my tail off to try to get women to like me. No more. Yes, I found Ms Right, but even before that I freed myself of this stupid pressure to succeed in this. I feel no pity when I meet a man or woman my age who claims there's no "decent people" out there. No one is worth jumping through hoops for. NO ONE.

 

The true "strength" is when men and women understand and accept that. Live by it. Call the shots on their lives and only allow in those who will be a partner and a benefit to one another...not someone you have to "work on" or "train" or "trick" to make things happen.

 

This is good advice. However as you say you waited a bit. I do think we need to stand by our actions and be prepared to walk. At the same time, letting a person get to know you while dating others isn't such a bad thing either.

 

The complicated part comes once sex is involved because it intensifies things.. when one or the other person still might be unsure and confused. I see Sage's point as well about just waiting until she is ready, but I think once sex get involved one needs to consider what's actually happening and if this is leading to a place that you feel right about.

 

Ironically I think not talking about it after sex would lead to a bigger rejection than talking about it, since at least by talking about it, you have the opportunity to make a decision for yourself. If you fool around with someone you really like, and they continue to date and sleep with others and then dump you, I think you will feel far more rejected than if you took a stand earlier, perhaps even if it is too early, at least she knows where you stand.

[Sanman]

When my GF told me she loved me and started tearing my clothes off, I asked her to be my girlfriend and for us to have a relationship.

 

Forget power plays. If a girl is going to use your asking her for commitment against you, then it speaks volumes on why you should not be with her.

 

This goes for women too. If a man is seeing you, dating you, sleeping with you, etc...for weeks or months and yet won't even mention commitment, say something and be ready to walk away if he hands you excuses. Unless of course you're happy with things being "open".

 

I'm so tired of this idea that it's about "who gets power?" Maybe a true showing of power is when a man or a woman can happily be single and alone. So when you ask someone you think is special to be your SO, that you can show strength and walk away if he/she doesn't give you the answer you want.

 

Maybe instead of people looking to trick, manipulate, or nudge others into the places we want them, we should simply leave those people to die alone. Let them all grow older and endlessly complain how there's no "decent men" or "decent women" out there. Let them come up with 1000 reasons why they're happy they're free and alone...until they get drunk and suddenly tell how much they want to find someone.

 

Call me stubborn, but I used to work my tail off to try to get women to like me. No more. Yes, I found Ms Right, but even before that I freed myself of this stupid pressure to succeed in this. I feel no pity when I meet a man or woman my age who claims there's no "decent people" out there. No one is worth jumping through hoops for. NO ONE.

 

The true "strength" is when men and women understand and accept that. Live by it. Call the shots on their lives and only allow in those who will be a partner and a benefit to one another...not someone you have to "work on" or "train" or "trick" to make things happen.

 

Agreed, stop playing little games. Say what you feel and ask for what you want. If she is not on the same page, walk away and find someone who is. That is how a man does it.

[phineas]

Agreed, stop playing little games. Say what you feel and ask for what you want. If she is not on the same page, walk away and find someone who is. That is how a man does it.

 

Being ready to walk if she isn't on the same page is where most men fail sadly.

I'm guilty of it myself in the past.

Not anymore.

 

It's how attention whores are able to thrive.

 

Think about it, if it was a given that a guy would just say "see ya" if a woman didn't wan't him the way he wanted her we wouldn't even need loveshack. LOL!

[Cypress25]

Being ready to walk if she isn't on the same page is where most men fail sadly. I'm guilty of it myself in the past. It's how attention whores are able to thrive.

 

Women often make the same mistake. They have sex with a guy who doesn't want more than a f*ck buddy, and continue having sex with the guy even though she wants a relationship and he doesn't. It's how "players" are able to thrive.

[phineas]

Women often make the same mistake. They have sex with a guy who doesn't want more than a f*ck buddy, and continue having sex with the guy even though she wants a relationship and he doesn't. It's how "players" are able to thrive.

 

No because in your case the woman KNOWS the guy doesn't want a relationship.

He's actually being honest with her.

His words are matching his actions.

 

Player's lie then just hit it & quit it.

 

 

In the case of the guy, the woman leads the guy on as long as possible for attention, favors, gifts ect knowing she doesn't want anything more while also knowing he wants more.

 

I've had women tell me they want to date, are DTF then flake or tell me it's "that time of the month" and just try to string me along & keep me from paying attention to other women.

 

I've had women try to tell me we are dating & that means she expects me to not go out with other women, but there is no sex & she hangs out with her "guy friends" LOLOLOLOL!

 

Actually, I shouldn't laugh because there are guys who actually would fall for that nonsense. Otherwise they wouldn't try it on me if it hadn't worked in the past.

 

It really makes no sense to me why a woman would go to such lengths just keep a guy chasing her.

[bluenightowl]

Being ready to walk if she isn't on the same page is where most men fail sadly.

I'm guilty of it myself in the past.

Not anymore.

 

It's how attention whores are able to thrive.

 

Think about it, if it was a given that a guy would just say "see ya" if a woman didn't wan't him the way he wanted her we wouldn't even need loveshack. LOL!

 

I think those who can walk away and mean it are strong people. Still, are there not situations where women don't jump (and rightly) just because a man wants a relationship. Perhaps they are on the rebound and are confused and that may not be playing games and is how they truly feel at that time.

 

Perhaps a hybrid of both is to say that you enjoy your time together but best to not date at the moment given her desire to explore (possibly sexually others).

 

I think a lot of men and women get like this when they first get out of a long term relationship. They still might make for good material but only after they have got meeting lots of men out of their system. There is need for a guy to linger around while she is in this state or risk getting hurt if you truly like her.

Edited August 4, 2011 by bluenightowl

[phineas]

I think those who can walk away and mean it are strong people. Still, are there not situations where women don't jump (and rightly) just because a man wants a relationship. Perhaps they are on the rebound and are confused and that may not be playing games and is how they truly feel at that time.

 

Perhaps a hybrid of both is to say that you enjoy your time together but best to not date at the moment given her desire to explore (possibly sexually others).

 

I think a lot of men and women get like this when they first get out of a long term relationship. They still might make for good material but only after they have got meeting lots of men out of their system. There is need for a guy to linger around while she is in this state or risk getting hurt if you truly like her.

 

I've dropped two women I knew as friends because when we both started hanging out thet said they wern't interested in "dateing" I said cool.

We hung out & I started to date other women.

 

They didn't like that & said they wanted to "date"

Well, if you have been close friends with a woman for about a yr & they say they want to "date" then avoid spending time alone with you using lame excuses while also not wanting you to talk to other women & basically just want to talk on the phone or txt. It's a big WTF.

 

so I told them both "look, you obviously don't want to really date me because you are avoiding any intimate situations so let's just stay friends"

 

They refused & actually said they did indeed want to have sex with me & gave me more lame excuses.

 

Guess what? they flaked & then expected me not to call them on it.

 

I dropped them hard. They have both made numerous attempts to contact me, (especially since i've gotten buff) I still ignore.

 

They used false promises of sex to keep me from paying attention to other women. sorry, don't want or need people like that in my life wasting my time.

 

Obviously they didn't want me, they just wanted my attention exclusively as if they owned rights to me or something.

 

The one wanted me to jump on her family plan for her cell phone.

The other one would call me at 10pm & want to know what I was doing & when I told her, she'd actually repeat what I said & go "uh-huh"

 

kinda scarry.

[Cypress25]

They refused & actually said they did indeed want to have sex with me & gave me more lame excuses. Guess what? they flaked & then expected me not to call them on it. I dropped them hard. They have both made numerous attempts to contact me, (especially since i've gotten buff) I still ignore. They used false promises of sex to keep me from paying attention to other women. sorry, don't want or need people like that in my life wasting my time. Obviously they didn't want me, they just wanted my attention exclusively as if they owned rights to me or something.

 

So basically these women liked you and wanted to date you, but they didn't want to jump into bed with you right away, so you dumped them? Sounds like their interest in you was genuine, but you pressured them for sex too early. You have to give a girl some time to get to know you and trust you before demanding sex from her. That's how real relationships develop. They probably did want to have sex with you eventually, but for some reason you expected it right away. They dodged a bullet in the end, because you obviously didn't care about those women. All you cared about was sex.

[phineas]

So basically these women liked you and wanted to date you, but they didn't want to jump into bed with you right away, so you dumped them? Sounds like their interest in you was genuine, but you pressured them for sex too early. You have to give a girl some time to get to know you and trust you before demanding sex from her. That's how real relationships develop. They probably did want to have sex with you eventually, but for some reason you expected it right away. They dodged a bullet in the end, because you obviously didn't care about those women. All you cared about was sex.

 

 

I forgot to mention, we "dated" for almost two months before they would even kiss me. I did actually care about them. Enough to let them waste my time leading me on.

These are two women age 38 & 37.

 

Still got the same opinion of me?