Must have a career, not a job

[zengirl]

Fair enough. For the record I had a PT job in college, as did my fiance (as a Fed intern). I was more commenting on the idea that everyone would/should have a career (or even a job) at that age. Some people work summers and then when school comes around live off the money they made during the summer. Neither of my parents worked in college, my father because he was on a basketball scholarship that took up a lot of time (and repeated knee injuries kept him in rehab), and my mother just didn't have the time (double majoring in biology and engineering). Different strokes for different folks I guess. I guess that's technically living off of someone else's dough, but neither of my parents were trust fund babies.

 

30 hours a week though to me is a lot. I know that I could not have worked that many hours and still get good grades. Good for you that you were though.

 

Yes, I worked a lot. I didn't expect anyone to work as I did, and I consider someone who's on a true athletic scholarship to be similar to a fellowship since they have to put in usually close to 20 hours a week in most sports (sometimes more!) to keep that up. That's like having a PT job.

 

And I agree no one needs a career in college, but they could do with some career aspirations. Really, as Sanman says, it takes time to develop a true career.

[misssmartypants]

lol

 

Anyway here's my real take on the issue.

 

I have worked in one form or another since I was 16 year old. There were times when I hated my job and there were times when I worked three crappy part time jobs at a time to make ends meet. While doing this I finished high school and college and started my family.

 

I have ZERO respect for someone who sits around and says there are no jobs when I know for a fact that there are always fast food and retail jobs to be had. Those jobs suck and don't pay much, but they are jobs.

 

I have a career as a teacher, I started teaching science, moved into special education and in ten years I want to be in administration. Teaching is my career. I care about what I do, what I do matters, when I don't go to work, my job doesn't get done.

 

Working as a motel maid was a job I had one summer. It didn't pay very much and there was no way to "advance" in that position, but it was honest work that earned me some money when I needed it.

 

As to dating - I think that if you are in a place of unemployment and not able to support yourself, you have no business dating. I also think that the jobs/careers people choose tell us things about those people. I don't want to date a local yocal who punches a time clock at the local rubber hose factory who's only qualification for the job was that he showed up to the interview on time and passed the piss test.

 

And to be honest, a guy like that, who wont read a book for fun and who lives and dies by television schedules, wouldn't want to date me.

 

If anyone finds it offensive, don't worry about it. IT means that she wasn't the one for you and saved you some time. If you find you have your heart set of a woman or group of women and they don't like your job/career/government benefits, then maybe you need to look at changing something.

Edited July 25, 2011 by misssmartypants
typos

[Queen Zenobia]

Yes, I worked a lot. I didn't expect anyone to work as I did, and I consider someone who's on a true athletic scholarship to be similar to a fellowship since they have to put in usually close to 20 hours a week in most sports (sometimes more!) to keep that up. That's like having a PT job.

 

And I agree no one needs a career in college, but they could do with some career aspirations. Really, as Sanman says, it takes time to develop a true career.

 

Yeah, unfortunately too many people go to college for the "experience" (which is fine, just not by itself) but have no idea what they actually want to do with their lives or why they're even in college in the first place other than that it's "expected" of them.

[irc333]

Yeah, I was talking to a woman, in her mid 20's that she was one of many of her friends that graduated that are now working menial jobs.

 

She works at a call center for a gambling website.

 

She graduated in the political sciences.

 

She moved back in with her parents, after living the few years of the campus life.

 

Now she's kind of "comfortable" in her call center job, she made it sounds like she's kinda given up on looking for a job in the degree she graduated in though.

 

 

Yeah, unfortunately too many people go to college for the "experience" (which is fine, just not by itself) but have no idea what they actually want to do with their lives or why they're even in college in the first place other than that it's "expected" of them.

[Queen Zenobia]

Yeah, I was talking to a woman, in her mid 20's that she was one of many of her friends that graduated that are now working menial jobs.

 

She works at a call center for a gambling website.

 

She graduated in the political sciences.

 

She moved back in with her parents, after living the few years of the campus life.

 

Now she's kind of "comfortable" in her call center job, she made it sounds like she's kinda given up on looking for a job in the degree she graduated in though.

 

Well with a degree in political science she might have to go get her Masters unless it's in a critical needs region like the Middle East or South Asia. For some people the idea of going to school to get an advanced degree (beyond a bachelor's) is very daunting. So I'm sure that happens a lot.

 

My fiance had a bachelor's in economics and job experience as a Federal Reserve intern but had a hard time finding a job when he graduated. The Fed wouldn't hire him as a full time employee (due to budget cuts) but if he went to grad school they would still keep him as a paid intern. He chose that route, got his Masters and now works for the IMF. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

[zengirl]

From an HR perspective, the problem with taking jobs for which one is way overqualified is that they turn your resume' into toxic waste once you are interviewing for a skill/experience appropriate job later. After college, if you have worked at all in a white collar field you want to continue in, having fast food or basic retail on your resume' is a bad idea. Better to just collect unemployment and treat your job search as your fulltime job. You may get away with significant underemployment on the resume' under the age of 25, but after, try to work in the field you want to be in permanently, even if it's unpaid or low paid internships.

 

To go a little off-topic, when applying for a white collar job with tons of competition (most anything these days), offering to work for free for a month or two can be a great gamble to get your resume' higher in the stack. It can also backfire, but the times when it is a good bet are fairly easy to figure out.

 

Now there are some "overqualified" type jobs that are in high demand now and don't hurt a resume'. Paralegal comes to mind for example, IT assistant, or anything else where diverse office type skills are emphasized.

 

I've not found this to be true so long as you're keeping up your skill set in other ways (obviously the crap job will not do it for you) and still actively searching for a job in the field you want. I've even been told that working an obviously part-time meantime job (i.e. I worked in a restaurant for a bit when I was laid off) was better than a resume gap, which is the alternative here. Obviously, it's better to have long periods with one company, but when you're laid off, you're not given that option. And, as I said, I've had quite a bit of luck both getting jobs and transitioning fields in hard times.

 

I have no doubt different HR managers prefer different things, and I know job hopping isn't their favorite, but when it's a lesser job, it's actually way easier to spot the difference between a "hop" and a layoff. Though the internship idea is a good idea. I wouldn't think less of someone who was laid off, collecting UE, and doing internship work. I would think less of someone who was laid off, collecting UE, and not actively doing any real work after a job search of a few weeks. Volunteering is okay too.

[allina]

To me, a career is something you have after college, it comes with PTO, a 401k and a reasonable salary. A job, is something hourly like a retail clerk or general food service. These differences often come with very different education levels a d life styles. Based on my definition I would only date men with careers.

 

I would like to add that I understand the fact that many people lost their positions in this economy. However, a man that has a college degree but was laid off after 5 years, and now works a job till he can find something is not the same as a guy with barely a HS education who at 30 is still hopping from job to job.

[irc333]

Speaking of "overqualified", I must've been a seriously "overqualified" victim.

 

IN a recent job opening, I almost had a heart attack about how this one job I saw posted was perfect for me.

 

Each bulleted description in the tasks I would be doing and the job requirements they asked for was like a "lock and key".

 

I thought I was a perfect fit, because I was like "Yeah, I did that, and I've done that, and I can do THAT in my SLEEP!"

 

I'm usually find myself applying for jobs I partially qualify for, but never FULLY qualify for.

 

I DO get an interview, and they have me interviewing with 4 people at a conference table.

 

Apparently, the boss had an agenda, he says typically senior people usually do the FULL brunt of the job description, but typically with NEW hires like me he'd probably have me doing the same 1 task for 6 months to a year...and then move me on to more responsibilities as listed in the job desc.

 

He was like "Are you willing to work weekends" I said "Sure, no problem"

 

"You'll also be working outdoors, is THAT okay?" and I said, "I've worked outdoors most of my career."

 

Anyhow, at the end of the interview, he said that with that ONE task he'd have me doing for a long period of time, that I might get bored with it very easily and leave the position.

 

And they don't want to put time and money into someone if they think they won't stick around for the LONG haul.

 

He felt that I wouldn't stick around, well he ASSUMED it.

 

Anyhow, I didn't get the job, because I was over qualified.

 

GETS even BETTER.

 

A few months later the SAME job is re-posted. LOL

 

Not only that, the same job (it was a trainee position) was posted several times in the past couple of years.

 

I was so ticked off, looks like they couldn't find someone to stick around LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've not found this to be true so long as you're keeping up your skill set in other ways (obviously the crap job will not do it for you) and still actively searching for a job in the field you want. I've even been told that working an obviously part-time meantime job (i.e. I worked in a restaurant for a bit when I was laid off) was better than a resume gap, which is the alternative here. Obviously, it's better to have long periods with one company, but when you're laid off, you're not given that option. And, as I said, I've had quite a bit of luck both getting jobs and transitioning fields in hard times.

 

I have no doubt different HR managers prefer different things, and I know job hopping isn't their favorite, but when it's a lesser job, it's actually way easier to spot the difference between a "hop" and a layoff. Though the internship idea is a good idea. I wouldn't think less of someone who was laid off, collecting UE, and doing internship work. I would think less of someone who was laid off, collecting UE, and not actively doing any real work after a job search of a few weeks. Volunteering is okay too.

[grkBoy]

I think in the end, this debate really comes down to women not wanting a guy whom they have to support. It's one thing if he's an auto mechanic, gets paid well, but has no aspirations on opening his own shop...but another if he's a Walmart greeter with nothing more than a high school education.

 

I've met some women who are very adamant about wanting the focused/determined/ambitious guy. Dream guy is the alpha male type who hits the gym regularly to maintain a hard body while pushing to become upper management at the office and make a lot of money. Those particular women either are the types who want to be someone's trophy and thus be "taken care of" with a guy they would want to sleep with...others are the types who might be ambitious themselves and feel they "deserve" an upper echelon male. They are also the types who continually complain how the upper echelon guys seem to pick flings with young sl*ts over a relationship with them.

 

In any case, you can see how striving for too much can backfire. Look at any girl who wanted Mr Hardcore-Career, but now complains endlessly how he works too much and isn't at home enough. In most cases though, women simply want a guy they don't have to worry about becoming a liability on themselves. They don't need the CEO, but they don't want the guy who's in his mid to late 30s and still trying to "figure it out".

[serial muse]

The joke in all this is that everyone has the definition of career wrong. A career is simply the field or occupation to choose and work in over a long period of time with chances for advancement. A job is the current position you hold. For example, if you are Ted Mosby, architect at XYZ fim, that is your job. If he is fired by XYZ, Ted Mosby is still a career architect, just one without a job. Women really want a man with an impressive job regardless of the career field.

 

Well...the point is not that anyone's wrong or right in their various definitions. The point is that one is looking for someone with a similar outlook on the subject. I think that what this thread really illustrates is that it probably isn't a good idea to immediately assign the worst interpretation to what one reads in a few lines of profile. The writer of that profile wrote a thing, and we all took it in our various ways. What she really meant, of course, is known only to her. The best way for the OP to find that out, then, would have been to ask her.

 

If one is determined to assume the worst of people, then there really isn't much point in them having individual, inner lives. That's how you stay single.

[antinko]

Personally, as a man, I'd prefer a woman with a job but not a career...

[sm1tten]

S

Anyhow, at the end of the interview, he said that with that ONE task he'd have me doing for a long period of time, that I might get bored with it very easily and leave the position.

 

And they don't want to put time and money into someone if they think they won't stick around for the LONG haul.

 

He felt that I wouldn't stick around, well he ASSUMED it.

 

Anyhow, I didn't get the job, because I was over qualified.

 

GETS even BETTER.

 

A few months later the SAME job is re-posted. LOL

 

This has happened to me a couple of times. The sad thing is that the first time it was actually in my industry (academia) but not my field - it was more administrative and I would definitely have required at least a little training, but they were very wary of my education and whether I would feel fulfilled and want to stick it out. I really wanted it, too. A few months later, I see the same position hiring again. I actually reached out to them AGAIN and reiterated my interest and I was told that I was over-educated and "capable of reaching much higher." Well, thanks, I guess?

 

I think what would turn me off, and this works for myself as well, is getting comfortable and complacent with just getting a paycheck but actively hating your job. I don't require that you love or have a passion for your job, but if you're just going through the motions and are miserable as hell, you are probably whiny to boot and I can't be bothered. If you're still looking that's one thing, but if you're just like, "well this is the best I can do and I'm going to be miserable about it" that's a different thing altogether.

[zengirl]

If the restaurant was very high end, it's possible, but definitely not ideal compared to other options. If faced with a significant employment gap, it's almost always better to do internships or non profit volunteering or charity while looking than regular food service or retail. I'm speaking from a large corporate HR perspective, those jobs are admittedly some of the harder to get more competitive ones. Fast food, chain or chain store experience on resumes seeking that level of job get sh-t canned instantly because they don't reflect any originality or creativity in the applicant at all. It's better even to set up your own business (LLC $150 or so, webpage hosting $10 a month) than run out and take the first job you can find... provided you want to go for competitive corporate jobs one day.

 

Lots of firms today won't hire anyone who isn't currently employed, figuring that people were laid off for a reason. This is a bad practice IMO, but goes to show that if you are already unemployed, the damage is done, and a reasonable gap won't kill you. Taco Bell will though.

 

I don't understand the logic there. You can always leave it as a gap anyway.

 

I agree that doing internships, volunteer work, and even some work on your own (I do that anyway personally -- the volunteering and self-work) is a good way to go, but if you need money, I disagree with the harm in finding something PT. I've never gone so low as Taco Bell though, so can't say there. But I don't think working PT at Starbucks or whatever kills your credibility as long as you also take OTHER steps as well; your assumption seems to be that PT job at Starbucks = no internship or volunteer work, when in fact, you can easily do the two together. Is it more work? Yes. So what? You could meet a hiring manager while handing them a latte. (I got my first advertising job in college before I graduated because I worked in a department store and had a customer who thought I'd be great at selling advertising for a local publication; he was the publisher. ETA: And no, he wasn't hitting on me. He was gay and partnered. ) Even in the corporate HR. Though you're already hurting with them for a career gap (job or no job), period.

[misssmartypants]

Speaking of "overqualified", I must've been a seriously "overqualified" victim.

 

IN a recent job opening, I almost had a heart attack about how this one job I saw posted was perfect for me.

 

Each bulleted description in the tasks I would be doing and the job requirements they asked for was like a "lock and key".

 

I thought I was a perfect fit, because I was like "Yeah, I did that, and I've done that, and I can do THAT in my SLEEP!"

 

I'm usually find myself applying for jobs I partially qualify for, but never FULLY qualify for.

 

I DO get an interview, and they have me interviewing with 4 people at a conference table.

 

Apparently, the boss had an agenda, he says typically senior people usually do the FULL brunt of the job description, but typically with NEW hires like me he'd probably have me doing the same 1 task for 6 months to a year...and then move me on to more responsibilities as listed in the job desc.

 

He was like "Are you willing to work weekends" I said "Sure, no problem"

 

"You'll also be working outdoors, is THAT okay?" and I said, "I've worked outdoors most of my career."

 

Anyhow, at the end of the interview, he said that with that ONE task he'd have me doing for a long period of time, that I might get bored with it very easily and leave the position.

 

And they don't want to put time and money into someone if they think they won't stick around for the LONG haul.

 

He felt that I wouldn't stick around, well he ASSUMED it.

 

Anyhow, I didn't get the job, because I was over qualified.

 

GETS even BETTER.

 

A few months later the SAME job is re-posted. LOL

 

Not only that, the same job (it was a trainee position) was posted several times in the past couple of years.

 

I was so ticked off, looks like they couldn't find someone to stick around LOL

 

 

I had something similar happen to me. I applied for and was interviewed for a science teaching position in a very small district. I tend to dress formally for job interviews and I was in this school in slacks and a suit jacket and all the staff were in jeans, I felt like I didn't fit. But the job was ideal, five preps so I wouldn't get bored, nice small town so I wouldn't have to worry about my kids.

 

I didn't get the job.

 

A few weeks later I was offered a job in a town ten miles away as a special ed teacher. It wasn't my ideal position, but the pay was 8K more a year and its turned out to be a great job.

 

That district that didn't hire me, has advertised for and hired a new science teacher every year since then.

 

Obviously there is something going on there. I wouldn't apply for it if my job went away tomorrow (which is won't).

[Sanman]

Well...the point is not that anyone's wrong or right in their various definitions. The point is that one is looking for someone with a similar outlook on the subject. I think that what this thread really illustrates is that it probably isn't a good idea to immediately assign the worst interpretation to what one reads in a few lines of profile. The writer of that profile wrote a thing, and we all took it in our various ways. What she really meant, of course, is known only to her. The best way for the OP to find that out, then, would have been to ask her.

 

If one is determined to assume the worst of people, then there really isn't much point in them having individual, inner lives. That's how you stay single.

 

 

Well, it is the point in one way. As pointed out, women say they want someone with career aspirations, but that is not always true. Career aspirations are enough for some, but others really want a man with a secure high-paying job.

[serial muse]

Well, it is the point in one way. As pointed out, women say they want someone with career aspirations, but that is not always true. Career aspirations are enough for some, but others really want a man with a secure high-paying job.

 

But what I'm saying is that we all seem to define "career" rather differently, so assuming that someone means what you think s/he means is probably not helpful. The OP, and several others, assumed that when the profile person said she wanted a man with a career, not a job, that meant she wanted a man who made a lot of money. I, and several others, assumed that it meant she wanted a man who loved his work and wasn't just punching a clock.

 

See the problem? Those are very different interpretations of the same words. Your post, above, still indicates that you think it must mean that she wants a high-salaried guy who's already secure in his job, because that's your interpretation of the OP. However, I still am not convinced, because it's not what I would mean by it.

 

But neither of our opinions matter. Instead of all this guesswork, it's clear that it would be better and more efficient to zip straight to the heart of the matter. Just ask her what she meant.

Edited July 25, 2011 by serial muse