Great - to complicated - to over - to talking again, lol

[ConfusedGuy28]

First and foremost - I ask that you do not turn this into some religious debate. That would be completely OT and far from the point.

 

1) Me and a friend (4 years +) got together a couple of weeks ago. Timing was right, we were both feeling it, etc.

2) She's Muslim. Meant I would have to convert, and I thought about this before asking her out. (not a true conversion since I'm basically agnostic/believe there's one god for everyone)

3) I tell her I'll convert for her.

4) A lot of stress encircled our relationship: (a) she has an ex she was with for many years, have been broken up for 2 years, and she's not completely over him (b) her parents have an issue with me because I'm not of the culture and would be converting

5) She broke things off after her parents saying no and after not wanting to hurt me because -----> Now she doesn't know what she wants. She will (or already has) talk to her ex and see if he wants to get back together. Told me even if he wants to, they have a lot of things to work on. During this time, she would like to continue talking to me because she is seriously considering me as well. Also during this time, she will have to talk to/date other guys her parents want her to meet (this she can't avoid, part of her culture, again - don't run OT with this part)

 

Soooooo - we've agreed that we are now "more than friends" and after somewhat worked out parts of these issues. My feelings towards her have changed slightly in light of all this. However, for her I do consider waiting for her to work through some her **** worth it (at least for the time being).

 

As far as my family is concerned - they have given me 100% support with the possible decision I may have to make.

 

Issues that bother me, but that I have accepted (on a logical level) are:

1) Hung up on her ex - there relationship soured after 3 years, but they tried to make things work. Lots of issues there, but it doesn't make sense for her to get back with him. Even from the viewpoint of a pure friend, I could never let someone I cared about get back into a relationship like that.

 

2) Desire to talk with other guys - what we had before she started to worry about her parents, etc was pretty amazing. The fact that she withdrew in fear of what might/might not happen stings a little. She has asked for time for her to sort some personal things out and to make a firm decision on what she wants.

 

3) I do feel somewhat like a "back up plan." She has told me her ex is still "#1" in her mind (even though they have tried to reconcile through this 2 year period and it never works out). So obviously, she wants to work through that mostly, whether it works out with him or not. She told me I am definitely #2 in her mind and could be #1 at some point - but that this is part of the reason why she wants time so she knows in her heart she's making the right decision. She basically ran back to her ex after her parents said no and she broke up with me - he's that "comfort zone" for her. Since I've known her for so long - I've heard about him for awhile - so its not "weird" for me when she talks about him. It would definitely be weird and not worth the trouble if this was someone I randomly met.

 

4) She's pretty religious, which is fine. She is kind of like "wtf" because she fell for a white guy who's not muslim (fyi - muslim women MUST marry muslim men - long story, again, not impt why). She has stated she will not get "physical" with anyone new, if there is someone new (physical for her is kissing, and even that is a rarity - if she kisses you, you've definitely found a place in her heart....hence why i'm #2).

 

However - she has told me she does not want me "acting" like a muslim until she 100% chooses me (i.e., wants me to eat pepperoni pizza (my fav), says I can drink (even though I told her i had a beer and she was kind of like "wtf" - even though we split for a couple days), and says I can have sex or whatever with anyone - and I don't have to tell her about it unless she chooses me - and it won't change her mind if I do. She doesn't want me to resent her for a missed opportunity.

 

LOL - so that last part sounds like "hell yeah, what do you have to lose" - but I seriously can't do that. Even me dating someone else, the whole concept is foreign to me because its not me. I personally only like dating one person at a time. There are definitely a couple of women I could easily hookup with as well.

 

It's just weird for me that we created a relationship very fast (we've talked about this, she's apologized, she admits that in the back of her mind she knew her parents would say no, etc) - and now the brakes are on. So, I have to take all this with a grain of salt, I know that. I really do hope her ex doesn't want to get back together ---> not even for my sake. I think its really going to **** her up because they are NOT going to work. They shouldn't work on it. No good will come from that, trust me (absolutely saying this from a friend POV).

 

Well - that's that for now. More to come with any questions you may have. Just wondering what you guys think of all this so far. I know it sounds complicated, a little crazy, whatever. This girl is worth it to me. The first year of knowing each other there was sort of a mutual "if i wasn't with my partner, i could totally see us married" - kind of thing. Not that we actively thought about it when we were with our SOs or ever ever acted on it in anyway. It was just one of those "hmmm, this person has a lot of the qualities I'm looking for" kind of thing.

 

I guess one question I have is - if I choose not to date other women, what can I do to help stay preoccupied with my time. I really don't want to over-romanticize this girl if she isn't at the same place as me currently - so what can i do to not focus on her? Besides "workout, read," etc etc

Edited July 7, 2011 by ConfusedGuy28

[ChessPieceFace]

Why would you consider putting up with that insanity? Right now you seem pretty clear-headed. Imagine having to live under those religious restrictions for a religion you don't even believe in, and being treated like an outsider or "infidel." And for what?

 

Stories like this should make it clear how equating islam and christianity is a false comparison.

[SmileFace]

If you had a friend who was chasing after a girl who was not only still in love with her ex but also had your friend making all these single sided sacrifices, would you advice him to continue?

 

You will only get hurt - you need to step away now

[ConfusedGuy28]

Why would you consider putting up with that insanity? Right now you seem pretty clear-headed. Imagine having to live under those religious restrictions for a religion you don't even believe in, and being treated like an outsider or "infidel." And for what?

 

Stories like this should make it clear how equating islam and christianity is a false comparison.

 

Ehhhh come on. I'll continue this convo with you thru PM if you want. Really don't want the thread to have anything to do with religion, please.

[ConfusedGuy28]

Couple things:

I am pretty level headed about it all right now.

 

So, like I said, the fact that she balked at the "complications" has changed the initial "everything is great" feeling. But, I still see something possibly there (as does she).

 

She's the type of girl that needs order in her life (i'm the type of guy that thrives in chaos). So, she was with this guy for a long time and that was comforting ---- so when things go iffy, she needs to feel comforted again. So I really don't think she's in love with him (and she recognizes its more of needing to feel comforted that actual love).

 

I think she needs to figure it out for herself, and not just something I tell her. As I talked to her about this, I could see all of this wash over her and I could see that "damn, he's totally right" expression in her eyes.

 

In my opinion (I have a pretty good intuition, and a damn good one about her) - she's afraid to be with me because of a lot of issues (i have trust issues, she has her own issues (everyone has some issues they bring to the table, we're willing to work on them)....she has her parents, her siblings, extended family....i'd have to convert (100% willing and open to doing it for her, if she was 100% into me)....she has to worry about how her family and our future family will be viewed in the community (the very american thing would be simply to say "**** everybody who cares" but culturally for her its not that easy)....).

 

However, despite these issues, I know that she truly wants a life with me. She is just afraid to say it because, like I said, she needs order (i can say it because i'm ok in chaos). I've brought this up to her, and she can admit to this on some level.

 

She also verbally expresses things that worry her, without a filter (also because we've been friends for so long). So - I get there is an issue with her being hung up on the ex....but she's also said even if he said yes, she won't be able to walk away from me. And then she'll start going on and on about married life with me, raising kids...and then kind of catch herself and be like (mentally) "damn, i keep talking like this with him!!"

[Teknoe]

despite your bold part disclaimer up top, i'm simply gonna say this and leave it be.

 

DO NOT CONVERT for a girl. Either you genuinely believe in a religion, or you don't. Fake converting is pure chicken-crap... and it won't be long before she discovers it, then it'll be REAL messy.

[ConfusedGuy28]

despite your bold part disclaimer up top, i'm simply gonna say this and leave it be.

 

DO NOT CONVERT for a girl. Either you genuinely believe in a religion, or you don't. Fake converting is pure chicken-crap... and it won't be long before she discovers it, then it'll be REAL messy.

 

100% agree with you. Of course the initial reason would be for her. However, I would not be able to 100% go through with it unless I 100% accepted it. Too many issues would come up with resenting her in the future, her family, problems raising children, etc. It also wouldn't be a valid marriage, that would have relgious/afterlife implications for her, etc. I've thought about this extensively for sometime actually

[oldguy]

You must be insanely in love with this woman or just insane, JK. Personally, I've been struggling with organized religion my entire life so for me to say I am this or that & always will be for ANY reason, would be a lie.

 

I believe the discipline required to be part of a culture or belief system that you are passionate about is challenging enough at times, but you are talking about entering into a culture & discipline that you have little passion for. Your passion is for this woman.

 

I hate to sound cold but I abandon the "soul mate" fantasy along with Santa & the Easter bunny. There has got to be a better match for you. She sounds like she is trying to find the best, "match" for her & your just one of her options which is good for you but you make it sound like she's trying to decide which pair of shoes to wear.

 

As an outside, unattached observer I would tell you to suck this one up & move on. yeah I know, easy for me to say.

[ConfusedGuy28]

You must be insanely in love with this woman or just insane, JK. Personally, I've been struggling with organized religion my entire life so for me to say I am this or that & always will be for ANY reason, would be a lie.

 

I believe the discipline required to be part of a culture or belief system that you are passionate about is challenging enough at times, but you are talking about entering into a culture & discipline that you have little passion for. Your passion is for this woman.

 

I hate to sound cold but I abandon the "soul mate" fantasy along with Santa & the Easter bunny. There has got to be a better match for you. She sounds like she is trying to find the best, "match" for her & your just one of her options which is good for you but you make it sound like she's trying to decide which pair of shoes to wear.

 

As an outside, unattached observer I would tell you to suck this one up & move on. yeah I know, easy for me to say.

 

LOL no I get it, really. Ask me a few years ago and i wouldn't be like this, lol.

 

Honestly, if in x amount of months she passed up on me, it would hurt. It really hurt when she was willing to walk away, and i fought her on the subject for days. It was easier for her when she was at her parents...and when she came back in town, she said she couldn't stop thinking about me. So, I really do believe (I'm also eternally optimistic about most things) that things will work out. I have to be that way, it's who I am.

 

Also, even though I have trust insecurities and the whole "talking to/dating" others causes me some stress - I feel like even if things don't work out, it will help me come to terms with that. I do trust her - but my insecurities get the best of me sometimes.

 

She has her own insecurities as well. For her, I do think it to be best if she talks to her ex, whomever her parents have lined up, and me as well. I think she has to do that to be sure about me (again, she needs order; and her parents have given her a lot of grief for being with her ex for so long and seeing how it went "nowhere" and she shouldn't have turned down these guys they've picked for her).

 

So, if she does choose me, I'll know she's mine. I'm going to stop pushing my own agenda and be more supporting. I should be listening to what she says she needs instead of focusing solely on mine (not that mine aren't important - so I say focusing for a reason, and did not say make hers 100% and mine 0%).

 

But at the same time - its not like I am going to give her 3 years to make a decision. If I do meet someone, I will see where it goes. But she already has my heart - and even if I was with someone for 3 months of dating and this girl said "hey, I'm ready" - I'd go in a heartbeat (well, not a heartbeat, she'd have to sweat it out a bit).

[Teknoe]

For what it's worth, two years ago I was non-Christian, didn't believe in Jesus Christ. I met a cute girl I fell hard for, but she was a devout Christian. I visited her church and actually was convicted by the Holy Spirit, and at that moment I believed.

 

It didn't work out between me and the lady, but I didn't leave Christianity because I do genuinely believe in it.

 

People can change religions, but make sure it's for the right reason. I know I did, and two years later I have tremendous peace and am a happy active member at my church. No regrets, because I really believe. If you don't, you'll be in misery my friend.

[oldguy]

That sounds like a great idea if your up for it, you should do some, "window shopping" as well

[sm1tten]

This whole things has me going wtf, actually. And for what it's worth, you should be dating other people... because you actually are not dating her. Just my opinion, but this has cluster**** written all over it.

[thatone]

this is why religion has to be a deal breaker.

 

as the last guy was advised about his strict christian girlfriend, she can justify anything based on a religious principle, and her family and friends will all be against you because you're the outsider. it's you against your whole world, you wanna live like that?

[Imajerk17]

Weren't you the one who fell for that crazy messed up bpd chick (your sister's best friend)?

 

Find yourself a girl who has her act at least somewhat together. Meanwhile, your offering to convert to her religion a few weeks in says poor boundaries (very unattractive). Move on.

[make me believe]

However, despite these issues, I know that she truly wants a life with me. She is just afraid to say it because, like I said, she needs order (i can say it because i'm ok in chaos).

 

Oh come on. She truly wants a life with you but she's telling you straight up that her ex is #1 in her life? Really now...?? Religion & her "issues" aside, all I needed to read was that she is still hungup on her ex to know that this is never going to happen for you.

[rafallus]

DO NOT CONVERT for a girl. Either you genuinely believe in a religion, or you don't. Fake converting is pure chicken-crap... and it won't be long before she discovers it, then it'll be REAL messy.

 

Even worse, if it doesn't work out between you two, you will resent... no, hate her guts for making you sacrifice so much for nothing.

[ChessPieceFace]

Ehhhh come on. I'll continue this convo with you thru PM if you want. Really don't want the thread to have anything to do with religion, please.

 

The entire reason for the post and reason for your problem is the "islam problem." Saying "don't debate it" is like saying "don't respond in any meaningful way to my post."

 

So you want me to be politically correct about it, fine. I'll play that pointless game. We won't name the religion we're talking about but just say "fundamentalists" or whatever.

 

I would be really afraid to get involved with any group of hardcore fundamentalist religious types, especially knowing that their beliefs say that I shouldn't be getting involved with them. In my own extended family I've seen fundamentalist thinking tear apart families. Parents cut off all contact with children, siblings cut all ties with siblings etc.

 

This girl is much more dedicated to her religion than she ever will be to you. Otherwise, she'd have gotten out of it to be with you without the hassle. It's like she wants you without having to give up what matters more to her, and she's waiting for some magical event to make it possible, to make this forbidden love happen within the confines of her terribly restrictive beliefs and ignoring the beliefs and condemnation of her family. "Just 1 more day" -- what will that change?? Nothing. The terribly restrictive beliefs are still there.

 

I don't see how anyone could "convert" to a belief just to get into a relationship. I know it does happen but I personally can't comprehend it. "Believing" something and not being true to yourself is just a sham. Your relationship will be essentially based on a lie at the very outset. What good can come of that? Why is this girl worth doing that? Pfft.