mooseman Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Here's my situation. Sorry for the length. I'm 39, she's 28 (Lucy) and a good friend of a very close female friend of mine, who I'll call Mindy. I am totally captivated by Lucy and like everything about her: she's cute, smart, interesting, has many common interests with me, the list goes on. I first met her months ago, but Mindy told me that she wasn't single then. I live in a different city than she does, about 3 hours away. A few weeks ago, Mindy told me that Lucy had dumped her boyfriend at the time, but not to get too excited because she dumped him due to her lingering feelings over a previous ex. Ok, fine. It all sounded complicated to me, so I figured I'll just stay away for now. Then, a week or so later, Mindy and her boyfriend invited me and Lucy on a weekend trip with them to the coast. Just the 4 of us. Obviously, I was thrilled by this and said yes. So did Lucy. The trip was great. I made no physical advances toward Lucy, but she and I spent a lot of time together, walked on the beach alone, that sort of thing. Maybe I should have been more aggressive, but I had decided that she was essentially not single, so I just didn't do anything beyond simply spend a lot of time with her when I could. So, I was surpised when on the very last day of our trip as we got ready to go home, she casually mentioned to me while we waited in line for coffee that she was single. I don't know if she really just casually mentioned it, or if she was trying to tell me something. But there you have it. After the trip ended, she emailed me one day to suggest that she would be in my city on a Friday night (a month from now though) to catch a flight, so could she drive to my place, park my car there, and I could then drive her to the airport. On her way back a week later, I could do the same (pick her up and drive her to my place for her car). Wow! Sounds great for me, right? I jumped on it, and sent her a flirty email saying yes, she could do that, but only if she drove up early enough for me to take her to dinner before her flight, har har. She said yes. Great!! Fast forward to a few days later. I told Mindy that I'm just going to ask her out at this point, despite her lingering ex issues, but did Mindy have any personal knowledge as to why that might not be a good idea? At this point, Mindy kind of threw a wrench in my plans. She said she thought I should do it, but she wanted me to know that Lucy had found yet some OTHER guy that she really seemed very interested in. This guy had kind of rejected her already, but they worked together, and Lucy was talking about him a lot, so Mindy thought this might be a bad time to go for it. Ugh. Now I was confused about what to do. So, Mindy came up with the idea of her casually asking Lucy about me, and then reporting back to me whatever she said to see if that might help guide my decision. I said sure, why not. Mindy did it. And here's what she reported to me (paraphrased): "Lucy definitely likes this other guy a lot, first. Second, I told her that she seemed to get along really well with you, so would she ever be interested in dating you? Lucy said that you're a great guy, but you weren't really her type, and she basically thought of you as a friend. So, that's what she said, I'm afraid. Maybe she will change her mind if you keep at it?" And so, here we are. Here I am, rather, asking for advice from you all. I fully realize that this might be an uphill battle, folks. But I am not at all afraid of rejection, so I really have nothing to lose here at all. What do you think I should do at this point, with this info? Chill out for a while and slow down my contacts with her, stop flirting etc., and see what happens on the flight night? How do I treat the flight night? Since I know I am already peering over a precipice into friend land, how can I avoid being pushed into it outright? For those of you who think I should just surrender, well, ok, but that would just leave me where I am at the moment: nowhere. So, why surrender? Shouldn't I just pick a strategy, one with the best possible odds, and go for it? I like her and will take a risk for this! What should I do? Edited July 7, 2011 by mooseman
Feelsgoodman Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) This was a painful read. Let's look at your mistakes step by step. I made no physical advances toward Lucy, but she and I spent a lot of time together, walked on the beach alone, that sort of thing. Maybe I should have been more aggressive, but I had decided that she was essentially not single, so I just didn't do anything beyond simply spend a lot of time with her when I could. Typical nice guy behavior. You had a golden opportunity to create sexual tension with that girl (the two of you were alone, in a romantic setting) but you chose to put yourself squarely in the friend zone by trying to be "respectful". And people wonder why nice guys finish last. After the trip ended, she emailed me one day to suggest that she would be in my city on a Friday night (a month from now though) to catch a flight, so could she drive to my place, park my car there, and I could then drive her to the airport. On her way back a week later, I could do the same (pick her up and drive her to my place for her car). Wow! Sounds great for me, right? I jumped on it, and sent her a flirty email saying yes, she could do that, but only if she drove up early enough for me to take her to dinner before her flight, har har. She said yes. Great!! More clueless nice guy behavior. Your idea of a "flirty text" is saying that you would only act as her chauffeur if she also lets you buy dinner??? Wow. I'm sure your supplicating behavior made her all tingly in her nether regions. "Lucy definitely likes this other guy a lot, first. Second, I told her that she seemed to get along really well with you, so would she ever be interested in dating you? Lucy said that you're a great guy, but you weren't really her type, and she basically thought of you as a friend. " This is basically woman speak for "I'd rather go through ritual genital mutilation than go out with this guy". Needless to say, your chances don't look very good. What do you think I should do at this point, with this info? I think you should forget about this particular girl (lost cause) and make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes the next time. You have so much to learn about creating attraction with women, it's not even funny. I wish you all the best. Edited July 7, 2011 by Feelsgoodman
Author mooseman Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 Ugh. Appreciate the feedback, as painful as it is to read.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Ugh. Appreciate the feedback, as painful as it is to read. Moose, I'm not trying to be an as*hole even if I come across as one. It's just that your "nice guy" pattern of behavior is so painfully transparent. And it is totally killing you chances with women. You don't create attraction be being "respectful" towards a woman's feelings and giving her space. You create attraction by generating sexual tension, playfully teasing her, being mysterious and a bit of a challenge, etc. You did none of that. I can promise you that the guy at work that she likes is not a deferential, respectful type.
Author mooseman Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 Moose, I'm not trying to be an as*hole even if I come across as one. It's just that your "nice guy" pattern of behavior is so painfully transparent. And it is totally killing you chances with women. You don't create attraction be being "respectful" towards a woman's feelings and giving her space. You create attraction by generating sexual tension, playfully teasing her, being mysterious and a bit of a challenge, etc. You did none of that. I can promise you that the guy at work that she likes is not a deferential, respectful type. Haha, well you may have come across as an ******* but the truth is I didn't disagree with a damn thing you said. The trip to the coast... well, I already had regrets. You just confirmed them. Not sure when I could have made a move, really, because we wouldn't be truly alone for long periods of time before the other two would catch up to us. But I wish I'd found the chance. I felt good about all this and so did all my friends until that death bomb report from Mindy. Drove a stake through my gut. Ugh.
rafallus Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Then, a week or so later, Mindy and her boyfriend invited me and Lucy on a weekend trip with them to the coast. Just the 4 of us. Obviously, I was thrilled by this and said yes. So did Lucy. The trip was great. I made no physical advances toward Lucy, but she and I spent a lot of time together, walked on the beach alone, that sort of thing. Maybe I should have been more aggressive, but I had decided that she was essentially not single, so I just didn't do anything beyond simply spend a lot of time with her when I could. Well, you should have, and any problems coming up later are results of that. You're being wishy-washy here -you don't make any moves, because ex is in the picture, yet you still pine over her. And stop freaking talking to her friends about an advice - that just makes you look incredibly lame in her eyes - even if she doesn't know, you have your head stirred up by her "friend". Ideally, it would go like this: 1)Invited to a trip - awesome 2)During trip - hot steamy sex 3)Ex in the picture - so ****in' what? I'm better, if she still chooses him, it's her problem. 4)Continue meeting and pounding after the trip for FB or relationship situation, whichever you like. 5)Her friend - I'm not asking her for any advice. If she gives unsolicited one anyway, then "Uh, thanks" (secretly thinking "Go to hell with that advice"), but do what I want. If she turns out to be right, let it be exposed by a girl you're interested in herself. Basically, less thinking, more doing. Assholish thoughts are customary, but not required. Edited July 7, 2011 by rafallus
oaks Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 What should I do? You actually have to ask her out, not get your mutual friend to play go-between.
Author mooseman Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 All good advice. Thanks. Even if my destiny is to get shot down, I don't really care. I'm going to play this situation to its natural course whatever that is and see what happens.
Author mooseman Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 A month went by, during which I kind of withdrew from communicating with her, sending her flirty emails, whatever. Just dropped out of her scene, really. Meanwhile, I hit the gym like a maniac. I had already been cutting down on my caloric intake as it was. I've now lost 20 pounds (over a few months total) and am looking and feeling pretty damn good these days. I also enlisted a female friend of mine to totally update my wardrobe, which I had allowed to lapse into a pathetic state. I just figured, I may as well use this girl for motivation if she's just going to shoot me down anyway. If I do get shot down, at least I'll be sharply dressed and fit as I crash into the ground. Last night was the night. We got lost in conversation. I was getting one signal after another from her. Lots of giggling, laughing hard at my stupid jokes, playing with the hair, saying how nice it was to be able to talk to me without the others around to interrupt, and so on. As the night ended, I asked her out. I really did know she would say yes, from how the night had gone. So yeah, she said yes. But she did give me a disclaimer: "I've kind of had a lot of stuff going on with relationships, so I'm not looking for anything to move really fast." Fair enough! I just wanted to take her to dinner, tis all. It was a damn good night, folks.
thatone Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) no it wasn't, man. you are her backup plan and free meal ticket. she can now abuse both you and the other bastard she's after because when he won't put up with her sh*t, you will! you are setting yourself up for failure before you ever get a chance to succeed. here's what you need to do... a) stop taking advice from your female friends b) stop taking advice from your mother if you get similar advice from her c) stop taking advice from her female friends d) stop caring about her ex or her boyfriend at work e) start being a lot more aggressive, with complete disregard for the opinions of all of the people mentioned above, the only opinion that matters is the opinion of the woman standing next to you, and you are responsible for that opinion she has of you. you think rome conquered europe and most of northern africa by having all of their generals ask for advice of their female friends and giving the barbarians their "space"? no, they loaded up an army and went and took that sh*t, and if anyone got in their way they got rolled. stop letting women tell you what to do and be a man. Edited July 30, 2011 by thatone
Author mooseman Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 Wtf? I guess I forgot to mention that my total shut-down in contact with her included the friend. I talk to the friend often, I mean, but never again about this situation. The friend had no clue what I thought anymore after that last thing she told me (other than my reacting to it by saying, "well that's a bummer, oh well.") Basically, I took the advice of rafallus.
thatone Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 no you didn't take his advice. "i'm not looking to move too fast" is her code for saying "i'm not gonna give you what you want because i'm screwing this other guy but i'll let you give me attention and buy me dinners when he doesn't do exactly what i want". you, my friend, have been friend zoned due to your own mistakes with this woman, and there's no escape from that. you're setting yourself up for more frustration.
Author mooseman Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 From how things went, I'm pretty sure I'm not friend-zoned, but more importantly I'd rather be "potentially friend-zoned" than not have a date with her at all. If all this fails in the end, so be it. Now, I would remind you of the (stupidly written so it's partly cut off) original title of this thread. Increase my odds! You have opinions, tell me what they are as to what to do if you have any, rather than diagnosing what's already been done! I surely hope you're not saying I should call it quits for no reason. What are the benefits of surrendering?
Recommended Posts