somedude81 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 It's curious to me that you keep referring to plural "men" when you're obviously deriving from your own experience. His experiences are not unique to him alone. Look man, most people (myself included) don't like to admit when they were at fault, for more than one reason. 1) It's just a hard thing to say. 2) It can't be changed. 3) When people make decisions, they usually don't have the foresight to see that it's a mistake, and instead think they're making a rational, "right" choice. At fault? Are you insinuating that it's his fault that he's not confident and has trouble attracting women? I hope you know how ignorant your words sound.
krz12 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 His experiences are not unique to him alone. At fault? Are you insinuating that it's his fault that he's not confident and has trouble attracting women? I hope you know how ignorant your words sound. Well, it can't really be someone else's fault. Here's the old big thread on the subject. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251962
somedude81 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Well, it can't really be someone else's fault. Here's the old big thread on the subject. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251962 The fault can only be placed on God/Fate/Mother Nature. I strongly beleive that the main reason I am have been single my whole life is because I'm white and only 5'6. Also due to some trauma by my parents divorced I never developed self-confidence which of-course makes it more difficult to attract women. I didn't chose to be short or have my parents go through a rough divorce so it's impossible to put any blame of my problems on myself. Obviously none of it is my fault. That is why I get insulted when people try to put the blame on the one who is suffering. It's like telling somebody that they should have been born rich.
Tayla Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 ....but ..but..I really should have been born rich! Ask my credit card companies
babyygirllhi Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 For me, its a red flag. But that's because I see a guy who hasn't made an effort to have a relationship. So he might not be willing to put much effort into yours, if you get into one. Just speaking from experience, my bf of 1 year just broke up with me to be alone. He is 22 and i'm his first girlfriend. I was his guinea pig. I had to prtty much teach him everything, which was fun at first, but then after breaking up I realize how much time I have spent trying to fix him into being in the relationship. However, everyone is different! So if you truly like him, go for it but really be careful. Any advice with mine? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t289800/
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 The fault can only be placed on God/Fate/Mother Nature. I strongly beleive that the main reason I am have been single my whole life is because I'm white and only 5'6. Also due to some trauma by my parents divorced I never developed self-confidence which of-course makes it more difficult to attract women. I didn't chose to be short or have my parents go through a rough divorce so it's impossible to put any blame of my problems on myself. Obviously none of it is my fault. That is why I get insulted when people try to put the blame on the one who is suffering. It's like telling somebody that they should have been born rich. Damn, did I ever have a chance? It seems the only way a person with my height could succeed with women is to be super confident. But with the crap I went through it was impossible to develop any confidence. Depression also seems to run in my family. So I was basically born with genes that made me into a depressed runt. Now my anger continues to build. Things would have been so much better if I was never born.
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 For me, its a red flag. But that's because I see a guy who hasn't made an effort to have a relationship. So he might not be willing to put much effort into yours, if you get into one. What an ignorant comment.
zengirl Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Here's a question for the other girls out there. I recently started seeing a guy who has so far been really great. He's intelligent, funny, good looking, has common interests, etc. After a few dates, I asked him about past relationships, and he clammed up and didn't want to talk about it. Red flag. Anyway, it turns out the reason he was sheepish was because he didn't have any past relationships to talk about. Here's a great, 26 year old guy who seems like a perfect catch in every way, yet who has never had a relationship, never kissed, and is of course, a virgin. His reasons for his lack of relationship experience seem somewhat valid, ranging from being home schooled during his teens and commuting to university causing a lack of social contact, not being into the bar/club scene, and being overly shy. I'm a somewhat shy girl myself, and can kind of understand some of the things he said, but it still seems quite strange to me to be 26 and never had a relationship. I'm not sure he's even really tried. He also has very few platonic friends. And no, I really don't think he's gay. From our previous dates, I would never have thought any of this. He certainly didn't come off overly shy or a loser in any way. Again, he seems great and I really like him, but I'm not sure I can get past this. What do you think? What's your relationship experience? It really all depends if you two can mesh.
zengirl Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 successful couples don't mesh over relationship experience. they mesh over how compatible they are. the guy should have lied or been quiet about his inexperience. Compatibility is determined, in part, due to relationship styles, common experiences, etc, all of which are influenced by the level of relationship experience you have and what those experiences have been. Relationships aren't these things we just have that go poof, in my view; they're things that help us learn, change, and become who we are. Thus where she is with relationships and where he is with relationships is an important element of their compatibility.
torn_curtain Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 this might be an orange flag to me, although I'm not sure what to make of it without more details.
thatone Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 There's been a rash of threads about late bloomers lately, a lot of guys in their mid-20s who've never been in a relationship or had sex. Something weird was happening between about 1986 and 2004, when those guys were growing up. I wonder what it was. The only thing I can think of is that it was a very Republican-dominated time. the rise of video games and internet socialization and the decline of social interaction as children. that's it. and the republican/conservative thing holds some weight for some of them as well. in the OP's case she said that he was home schooled. if he was home schooled because of his parents' crazy political/religious beliefs that would explain it too.
Andy_K Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 There's been a rash of threads about late bloomers lately, a lot of guys in their mid-20s who've never been in a relationship or had sex. Something weird was happening between about 1986 and 2004, when those guys were growing up. I wonder what it was. The only thing I can think of is that it was a very Republican-dominated time. I wouldn't mind betting that the numbers now are no different to what they were 20 years ago. The difference now, is that virgins in their 20's or later have the internet to talk about it, and so you're vastly more aware of it.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I wonder if another factor is the degradation of the family unit in the past 30 years or so. Fewer strong father figures = young men not learning any dating skills, needy moms leaning too much on their sons. I've had relationships with 2 guys with good dads, and 2 guys with absent dads. The guys without a strong father figure were noticeably feminized in certain ways -- more people pleasing, some sexual hangups, some anxieties, etc. And both of them had needy mothers who tried to interfere in their lives and decisions. Another factor could be that wages for the middle class have stalled since 1980. Tougher economy = young people saddled with ridiculous student loan debt, no good jobs, inability to provide for a family, sons living at home longer. Another factor could be that women are beginning to outpace men in some areas they never have before, such as earning degrees, rate of employment, etc. In every single one of my relationships, no matter how successful the guy, my boyfriend told me he felt intimidated to one extent or another by my accomplishments. All my single friends and I are having a tough time meeting guys that bring as much to the table as we do. I don't care if my boyfriend earns less or has accomplished less in certain ways -- but men seem to have a very hard time being with women who have accomplished more than they have.
Andy_K Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 he seems great and I really like him, but I'm not sure I can get past this. What do you think? If you're not going to try dating him, at least jump him. He'll have way better chances at not being judged if he's not a virgin when he meets the next girl.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I wouldn't mind betting that the numbers now are no different to what they were 20 years ago. The difference now, is that virgins in their 20's or later have the internet to talk about it, and so you're vastly more aware of it. Or it could be that. I'd be interested to see some statistics.
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I think a big part of it is that women have greatly raised their standards but then settle for less in a different way. I don't remember what the source is, but I read something that said a woman would reject a man who only has 80% of what she wants. While there is no doubt that a man would go for such a woman. It's also more common for a woman to be happy with being single and having a guy on the side that she's sleeping with. 20 years ago, friends with benefits were unheard of. Now they seem to be all the rage. Only the best, most desired men are able to get a FWB and they do it with several girls, who are all content to be part of a harem. When a guy is able to sleep with several women without strings attached, he has no need or even a desire to get a relationship. Why should he? Since most women would rather stick with one guy, while men don't really feel that way, that could mean that 3-4 girls could be "claimed" by one guy, and those girls are basically off the market; leaving 3-4 guys without a girl at all. This will not change until women wise up and refuse to have sex with a man without being in an exclusive relationship.
thatone Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) I wonder if another factor is the degradation of the family unit in the past 30 years or so. Fewer strong father figures = young men not learning any dating skills, needy moms leaning too much on their sons. I've had relationships with 2 guys with good dads, and 2 guys with absent dads. The guys without a strong father figure were noticeably feminized in certain ways -- more people pleasing, some sexual hangups, some anxieties, etc. And both of them had needy mothers who tried to interfere in their lives and decisions. Another factor could be that wages for the middle class have stalled since 1980. Tougher economy = young people saddled with ridiculous student loan debt, no good jobs, inability to provide for a family, sons living at home longer. Another factor could be that women are beginning to outpace men in some areas they never have before, such as earning degrees, rate of employment, etc. In every single one of my relationships, no matter how successful the guy, my boyfriend told me he felt intimidated to one extent or another by my accomplishments. All my single friends and I are having a tough time meeting guys that bring as much to the table as we do. I don't care if my boyfriend earns less or has accomplished less in certain ways -- but men seem to have a very hard time being with women who have accomplished more than they have. you're on a roll . i agree with the men growing up with single mothers point. their mothers are still women, if they ask their single mothers about women their mother will unload all of her baggage on them and finish up strong with a speech straight from oprah about how to behave around women, all of which will be wrong of course. i also agree with the point about those single mothers using their sons as companions being very unhealthy. i spent many childhood years with a single mother, and she did make some of those mistakes with my younger brother, but with me she was always insistent on me taking care of myself as soon as i was out of high school, so i didn't have it as bad as a lot of these younger men from single mothers do. and yes, women tend to graduate from college in higher numbers because women don't have the blue collar options that men have to make a living. men have a choice between staying in school or learning a skilled trade for a living, women don't for the most part due to the physical demands of those blue collar jobs. when we keep moving away from a manufacturing economy and toward a white collar economy that leaves a lot of those men who chose blue collar jobs out to dry. Edited July 29, 2011 by thatone
Ruby Slippers Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I think a big part of it is that women have greatly raised their standards but then settle for less in a different way. If women have raised their standards, I think it's only because they are accomplishing more and their own standard of living has increased. In my mom's day, all a woman really needed was a strong, reliable provider. In general, women of my mom's generation worked only low-paying jobs and needed a man to bring home the real money needed to raise a family. She and other women her age have tolerated all sorts of awful behavior from their men because they were dependent on them. Basically, they were a lot more desperate than women of today. Most of my single friends are financially stable, employed, independent, attractive, active and fit, sociable, fun, and talented in some way. It is damn near impossible to find available men who are the same. I don't remember what the source is, but I read something that said a woman would reject a man who only has 80% of what she wants. While there is no doubt that a man would go for such a woman. It depends on what the 20% is. Substance abuse issues, mental health problems, living with mom, no job or a job he hates, not financially stable, totally out of shape, no fun, insecure and sabotaging -- these are some of the reasons my friends and I have passed on guys for relationships. Only the best, most desired men are able to get a FWB and they do it with several girls, who are all content to be part of a harem. I've had opportunities to have sex-only relationships with the hottest guys, but I passed on them (I wasn't ready to try FWB yet). My first FWB was a guy who is cute and sexy, but also sensitive and a little nerdy (graduate degree in computer programming). I would prefer an average-looking but very cool and intelligent guy to a hot player, because I think he is less likely to be sleeping with a lot of women, and the STD risk is lower. Also, in my experience, hot guys are not that smart or interesting, and this is essential to attraction for me. Since most women would rather stick with one guy, while men don't really feel that way, that could mean that 3-4 girls could be "claimed" by one guy, and those girls are basically off the market; leaving 3-4 guys without a girl at all. Having an FWB doesn't stop me or my friends from looking for an actual relationship. In fact, for me, it motivates me more to get out there and meet new people. When I'm not involved with a guy at all, I am more likely to feel lonely and unattractive. When I'm having regular sex, I feel happier, sexier, and more fun. This will not change until women wise up and refuse to have sex with a man without being in an exclusive relationship. If I could find a guy I actually wanted to be in a relationship with, I would do that. But so far, not much luck. And like I said, I'm not alone. All my single girlfriends are in the same boat.
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 If I could find a guy I actually wanted to be in a relationship with, I would do that. But so far, not much luck. And like I said, I'm not alone. All my single girlfriends are in the same boat. That's because, your and their standards are too high. "Substance abuse issues, mental health problems, living with mom, no job or a job he hates, not financially stable, totally out of shape, no fun, insecure and sabotaging" There are many men out there who have none of those issues but are still passed over by women. And there are plenty of guys who have those issues who are getting laid like crazy. Seriously though, passing over a relationship with a guy who might be totally great in every other way but because he's insecure in himself and he might hate his job? Princess mentality much? Men are people too, we have feelings and emotions. I've had opportunities to have sex-only relationships with the hottest guys, but I passed on them (I wasn't ready to try FWB yet). My first FWB was a guy who is cute and sexy, but also sensitive and a little nerdy (graduate degree in computer programming). I would prefer an average-looking but very cool and intelligent guy to a hot player Very cool guy, hot player same thing. Both are highly desired. Why settle for a normal guy? Heaven forbid he's actually a little below average. Having an FWB doesn't stop me or my friends from looking for an actual relationship. In fact, for me, it motivates me more to get out there and meet new people. I think it really depends on the dynamics of the FWB. If it's a situation where the girl likes the guy more and wants a relationship with him but he just want's sex, she will not be on the look out for other guys. She might actually reject several decent guys who are looking for a real relationship, while she's wasting her time trying to get her FWB to commit to her.
Richard Friedman Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 LOL I don't know why some guys insist on shooting themselves in the foot with women like this? Why do you owe her, a woman you've just met, every detail of ur personal life? Is she ur confessor or something? I mean, I'm all for honesty, but you know you're gonna be judged for it(whether rationally or irrationally, thats up for debate) why should you disadvantage yourself? It's like interviewing for your dream job and asked whether you have ever done anything illegal, admitting to all the times you drank underage.
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Perfect example of having standards way too high.
Richard Friedman Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 I wonder if another factor is the degradation of the family unit in the past 30 years or so. Fewer strong father figures = young men not learning any dating skills, needy moms leaning too much on their sons. I've had relationships with 2 guys with good dads, and 2 guys with absent dads. The guys without a strong father figure were noticeably feminized in certain ways -- more people pleasing, some sexual hangups, some anxieties, etc. And both of them had needy mothers who tried to interfere in their lives and decisions. Another factor could be that wages for the middle class have stalled since 1980. Tougher economy = young people saddled with ridiculous student loan debt, no good jobs, inability to provide for a family, sons living at home longer. Another factor could be that women are beginning to outpace men in some areas they never have before, such as earning degrees, rate of employment, etc. In every single one of my relationships, no matter how successful the guy, my boyfriend told me he felt intimidated to one extent or another by my accomplishments. All my single friends and I are having a tough time meeting guys that bring as much to the table as we do. I don't care if my boyfriend earns less or has accomplished less in certain ways -- but men seem to have a very hard time being with women who have accomplished more than they have. Just curious? What do you do that intimidates these men so much? I have not lived in the states too long(7 years) but from what i understand, isn't it a complaint of feminists that men still hold almost all positions of power?
Ruby Slippers Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 There are many men out there who have none of those issues but are still passed over by women. Well, I guess those guys aren't interested in me and my friends, because we are not finding them. And there are plenty of guys who have those issues who are getting laid like crazy. I'm not surprised. I would have sex with a guy with some of those issues, but I would see no point in getting serious with him. Seriously though, passing over a relationship with a guy who might be totally great in every other way but because he's insecure in himself and he might hate his job? Princess mentality much? Men are people too, we have feelings and emotions. I was with a guy who was pretty great, but who kept telling me in various ways that I could do better than him. He said I could find a guy much more attractive than him, and he was worried I might leave him for such a guy one day. WTF am I supposed to do with that? When a guy keeps insisting you are "above him", eventually, you start to believe him.
somedude81 Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I guess those guys aren't interested in me and my friends, because we are not finding them. I get the feeling that you are a bit older than the demographic of women I'm thinking about. So the "good men" are already married. I'm not surprised. I would have sex with a guy with some of those issues, but I would see no point in getting serious with him.Kind of proves my point about the FWB thing and it also depends on what you mean by serious. I was with a guy who was pretty great, but who kept telling me in various ways that I could do better than him. He said I could find a guy much more attractive than him, and he was worried I might leave him for such a guy one day. WTF am I supposed to do with that? When a guy keeps insisting you are "above him", eventually, you start to believe him.Yeah, that's being very insecure. I obviously have confidence issues, but I would never tell a woman I'm dating that she was better than me. Even then because I'm not cocky I'm probably written off right away.
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