OliveOyl Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 You would support a stay at home husband then? I would, yes. In fact, my stbx and I often joked about switching roles. Being a stay-at-home parent is difficult especially for people who have a high need (as I do) for mental stimulation. I actually think given our temperaments, I would have handled working better and he would have handled staying at home better. But my stbx had quite a bit more earning power, so he stayed the breadwinner.
OliveOyl Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Nor does it compare even remotely in effort or difficulty, to the average corporate job or especially a job requiring manual labor, bogus inflated "studies" estimating the worth of household labor notwithstanding. Yes, you're right. Stay-at-home can be much more draining, socially isolating, and mind-numbing. It's a worthwhile job but you can't compare "effort." It's apples and oranges.
Eeyore79 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 The fact is, many women find their looks have faded and now want to "settle down" with someone. Why didn't they do this at 18? It's simply the wrong time. She has made her choice, now she gets to live it. I'm 30 and have never been married or had kids, but I certainly never made a choice to do that. I would have happily got married at 18 if a decent guy had come along and proposed to me. Unfortunately I never found a man to fall in love with, and those who asked me out were jerks or losers who I dumped as soon as I realized that they weren't right for me (if they didn't dump me first). I ached for a decent, loving man to want a lasting relationship and a family with me, but I was never lucky enough to meet one. Should I give up on love and marriage just because I wasn't fortunate enough to meet the right man in my teens? Also, it's all very well to go on about women not being the perfect virginal teenage wife, but men aren't perfect either. They're certainly not virgins - a lot of men have slept around, are divorced, have kids (sometimes to multiple women), or simply don't want to marry and string women along for years. It's hard for a decent woman to find a man who hasn't been overly promiscuous, who isn't divorced and doesn't have kids, and who actually wants to marry and have a lasting relationship.
musemaj11 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I would, yes. In fact, my stbx and I often joked about switching roles. But it was nothing more than a joke. Your claim remains an empty word until you have actually voluntarily become the breadwinner while your spouse stays at home. You are exactly the kind of women I was talking about. You are like those women who keep talking about how they wouldnt mind being with men who make less money yet all those women are with men who have more money. Go figure.
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 It's apples and oranges. Maybe you are right about that part. You don't have comfortable furniture, television or stereo, all the food and drink in your kitchen, the luxury of having friends over, going to their house, talking on the phone, laying in the sun or going out shopping at a real job. "Mind numbing social isolation" :lmao:
OliveOyl Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Maybe you are right about that part. You don't have comfortable furniture, television or stereo, all the food and drink in your kitchen, the luxury of having friends over, going to their house, talking on the phone, laying in the sun or going out shopping at a real job. "Mind numbing social isolation" :lmao: I have approximately 15 years in the workforce working full-time, and over ten years as a stay-at-home parent. So, I think I have plenty of years in both "fields" to provide at least one solid opinion based on real experience. In my particular case, because my son ended up being disabled, the stay-at-home part was extended far longer than I anticipated. There was little luxury of just having friends over, and laying in the sun. Uhhh... no. Sure, there are the amenities of home, but most people who work in offices have amenities too. And yes. The social isolation and lack of mental stimulation can be and was for me, very mind-numbing. I stand by that. Because I've lived it.
OliveOyl Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 But it was nothing more than a joke. Your claim remains an empty word until you have actually voluntarily become the breadwinner while your spouse stays at home. You are exactly the kind of women I was talking about. You are like those women who keep talking about how they wouldnt mind being with men who make less money yet all those women are with men who have more money. Go figure. Empty word? Did you read my post? My stbx made more money than I could. Quite a bit more. I would have GLADLY gone back to work and supported my husband if we would have not taken a drastic reduction in income. I LIKED working.
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I have approximately 15 years in the workforce working full-time, and over ten years as a stay-at-home parent. Well with that much experience, if you aren't able to fashion social outlets from home, that's your fault, not a condition of staying at home.
Mangomonkey Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 im not sure if this relates to the topic but i remember when i used to do everything for a woman i was trying to have a relationship with. When i did everything i really did do everything. I didn't ask for nothing back because it just wasn't my thing but when i asked if she would ever did the same for me if the roles were reversed. All she did was laugh. Hope this answers something about women. but this is just one example.
Jazzari Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 im not sure if this relates to the topic but i remember when i used to do everything for a woman i was trying to have a relationship with. When i did everything i really did do everything. I didn't ask for nothing back because it just wasn't my thing but when i asked if she would ever did the same for me if the roles were reversed. All she did was laugh. Hope this answers something about women. but this is just one example.My husband did things for me that I would never do in return. However, I did things for him that he said he would never do for me. I don't think the partnership has to be equal in the specific things you do for each other. As long as there is balance and you are both happy, its all good. But I wouldn't want a relationship where it was all one sided.
musemaj11 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 im not sure if this relates to the topic but i remember when i used to do everything for a woman i was trying to have a relationship with. When i did everything i really did do everything. I didn't ask for nothing back because it just wasn't my thing but when i asked if she would ever did the same for me if the roles were reversed. All she did was laugh. Hope this answers something about women. but this is just one example. From anthropological point of view, females are the primary care givers for children. So they need someone else to be their caregivers. And this is where the males come in the picture. It basically goes like this: Man -> Woman -> Child However, now the question is, who gives to the man? Thats right. Nobody. In other words, in the grand scheme of things men are just expendable tools whose only purpose is to be utilized to ensure the survival of women and children.
Jazzari Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 From anthropological point of view, females are the primary care givers for children. So they need someone else to be their caregivers. And this is where the males come in the picture. It basically goes like this: Man -> Woman -> Child However, now the question is, who gives to the man? Thats right. Nobody. In other words, in the grand scheme of things men are just expendable tools whose only purpose is to be utilized to ensure the survival of women and children. How are they expendable? Without the man to care for the woman and child, they will not survive. (speaking from your anthropological view of course) And of course the woman gives back to the man. Both in providing him with children, preparing food and caring for him when he is ill. She provides the base so he can be strong enough to go out and kill that mastodon. Honestly, now that I think about it - I would rather go out and hunt the mastodon then go through childbirth back then. I think my chances of survival would be higher. Talk about expendable.
Mangomonkey Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 things i did were simple things. like buying lunch and what not. so asking if she would do something like that for me and just laughing at my face about it really made me feel like a fool. All i know is the more i care and take on the "traditional" roles of a man. The more i get stepped on. Its only when i dont give two ****s and take on the role of a jerk that these same women flock to me. Honestly it sucks and makes me think. but im not trying to go off topic. There are traditional men out there. As i like to think i was one of them. But honestly its not worth being one. Taking on that role really do makes you expendable in the eyes of a woman. Cause basically you really are just a safety net. And being the second place guy or last choice is never good. I talking from personal experience. Im no saint myself but i do try.
Dusk1983 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 What she, you and the other women here don't seem to realize, is that women are depreciating assets. Women do not get more attractive. Usually, around 30, they hit a wall and become horribly ugly, menopausal, crazy and downright unpleasant. It is you who is unpleasant, and singularly so. Every contribution you've made to this thread has reeked of misogynistic bitterness, clearly stemming from years upon years of abject romantic failure, and frankly I'm suprised you haven't been banned for some of your comments. Crude at best, vile at worst. First up, dinosaur, women are not washed up or 'dried up' at 32. Furthermore, if they want to spend their 20s sleeping around, that in no way means they're forever 'tainted', or they can't grow out of it at any time and settle down with a decent man. And yes, I'm a man. You are just some bitter guy on the internet; you do not get to condemn the OP, or any person, for the way they live their life, the choices they make, or suggest they have no right to a 'traditional' relationship & family because of those choices. Your views belong to prehistory, or perhaps a state governed by Sharia Law.
ladyinlimbo Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 It is you who is unpleasant, and singularly so. Every contribution you've made to this thread has reeked of misogynistic bitterness, clearly stemming from years upon years of abject romantic failure, and frankly I'm suprised you haven't been banned for some of your comments. Crude at best, vile at worst. First up, dinosaur, women are not washed up or 'dried up' at 32. Furthermore, if they want to spend their 20s sleeping around, that in no way means they're forever 'tainted', or they can't grow out of it at any time and settle down with a decent man. And yes, I'm a man. You are just some bitter guy on the internet; you do not get to condemn the OP, or any person, for the way they live their life, the choices they make, or suggest they have no right to a 'traditional' relationship & family because of those choices. Your views belong to prehistory, or perhaps a state governed by Sharia Law. Bravo, bravo. Well said. I read his responses here and in some of the other threads and I can't help but feel sorry for him, to be so bitter and hateful toward women. I, too, am surprised that his vitriolic rants against women are allowed. Like a stuck record. This place is his own personal platform for slamming women and making sweeping generalizations and sexist remarks. Gotta feel sorry for a man like that. What a way to go through life.
miss_28 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Poor Jessica Alba, she just passed 30, she's gonna look like a dried-up old hag in 2 years. And Halle Berry? OMG, she's in her 40s, make way for the wheelchair. And no, gorgeous, vibrant, classy healthy women with lots to offer in their 30s is not a myth, just come to my city and you'll have plenty of proof. For that matter, there are also great men in their 30s and 40s. The few couples I know that divorced or are unhappy are all in their 20s, so maybe getting married before you've had a chance to experience life and its ups and downs is not the best idea. My point? Age is a freaking state of mind. Boxer88, grow up, I swear you sound like a spoiled teenage boy going through puberty in the back country. What's the matter, some older chick rejected you? (*I know I'm opening this up for the standard puffy reply, so yes, please let us all know how many older chicks you or your friends banged and were grateful to you later*). Seeing how I'm 32 myself, I & the OP and every other *middle age* woman that doesn't meet your age requirements should go run and buy a burka. Is it possible that there are so many jaded people out there that are scared or so hateful of the opposite sex? And is it possible that the opinion of women as a whole gender is so low on this forum?
Dusk1983 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) The truth hurts poor wimminz and manginas. A final comment that tells us all we need to know about your level of maturity. Pathetic. This place is his own personal platform for slamming women and making sweeping generalizations and sexist remarks. Gotta feel sorry for a man like that. What a way to go through life. It's not just him, though, although he's one of the most unpleasant. I frequent these forums because I'm interested in the perspective of the opposite sex, but the male demographic here is totally unrepresentative of the population at large. Most men are out there forming meaningful and equitable relationships with women. The male population here, though, is skewed towards those who can't; often, in my view, because of their own failings. But what is so unhealthy is that many of these men wish to exhort others into their own mindset of bitterness and resentment, simply in order to confirm their own warped perspective. And that does nobody any good, least of all them. Edited May 23, 2011 by Dusk1983
miss_28 Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Most men are out there forming meaningful and equitable relationships with women. The male population here, though, is skewed towards those who can't; often, in my view, because of their own failings. But what is so unhealthy is that many of these men wish to exhort others into their own mindset of bitterness and resentment, simply in order to confirm their own warped perspective. And that does nobody any good, least of all them. Agree with everything you said. It wasn't this bad on LS 1-2 years ago, there used to be a lot more really valuable male input.
Woggle Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I don't agree with the blanket misogyny from posters such boxer88 but the hatred goes both ways on here. Why is it only issue when it's going one way but not the other?
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) but the male demographic here is totally unrepresentative of the population at large. See, now you are overreaching, the male demographic here is -exactly- representative of the population at large, and perhaps the reason you think they/we aren't is that whereas women have ample outlets for venting frustrations with the opposite sex in day-to-day life, when men do this in daily life, we are shouted down by the nearest feminist zealot like chumps on the Springer show. It happens here also, as your post demonstrates, but we get an inkling more time before being shouted down here than other places. In addition, men are exposed to thousands of messages daily describing males as the lowest common denominator, rapists, crooked businessmen, abusers, cheats, deadbeat dads. Finally, as frustrated posters note here, marriage has become an extremely risky, even foolhardy proposition for American men due to a broad variety of factors highlighted in this thread. Eventually these things boil over, and you see the tip of the backlash and anger iceberg that is just now starting to emerge in places like this. Rest assured, it's coming to a non internet locale near you, and you won't like it when it does. But of course, I'm just a poorly adjusted misogynist who can't attract women, not one of the "real men" out there polishing your tiaras for you. ...and thanks for the lecture on the failings of men here on LS, but we've heard it all before. If there were any old-fashioned single men out there, what possible incentive would they have to let shrill, inescapable, hyper-privileged harpies into their lives? creatures so self-absorbed and deluded that almost none of them can even take the baby step and admit that their gender is at least partially accountable for difficulties between men and women? Enjoy your cats. Edited May 23, 2011 by sanskrit
Eve Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 You lot are crazy. I hope I never lose sight of seeing people as individuals. Take care, Eve x
carhill Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Wrt to the male demographic of LS, rewind a few years, take a topic of interest to most men, and see what mix of old-fashioned, progressive and other males of that LS 'era' weighed in on it. Bear in mind LS was a lot more tightly moderated back then.
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Wrt to the male demographic of LS, rewind a few years, take a topic of interest to most men, and see what mix of old-fashioned, progressive and other males of that LS 'era' weighed in on it. Bear in mind LS was a lot more tightly moderated back then. Were posters paid by the word back then? and I thought -I- was verbose.
carhill Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Hey, I'm still reading the thread, interspersed with drywalling the bedroom. Drywall was the break A thought did occur. Even though being socialized in an 'old-fashioned' family, my historical views of women and support of women's social issues and gender role change was/is remarkably antithetical to that of a traditional sterotypical male who viewed women as barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen cooking him dinner. Perhaps that was my mom's socialization during my formative years at work, given she was very progressive before making the choice to adopt a traditional role within her marriage. Before verbosity afflicts me, back to sheetrock dust. Have fun
sanskrit Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Even though being socialized in an 'old-fashioned' family, my historical views of women and support of women's social issues and gender role change was/is remarkably antithetical to that of a traditional sterotypical male who viewed women as barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen cooking him dinner. Mine as well, as well as all of my friends and acquaintances with 0 exceptions that I can think of OTTOMH. It's part of the "lowest common denominator" campaign in our culture to set up straw men male attitudes. Or rather, will ask you, as you have been around here longer than I have. What percentage of male posters on LS IYE actually embrace or aspire to the stereotypical male attitude you describe above versus being just pissed off about specific issues, attitudes or inequities, and voicing frustration that the antithesis "healthy" attitude you describe above carries along with it the eventual realization of an extremely uneven playing field in modern U.S. culture?
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