Never thought I would be doing this

[foggyandconfused]

I am not sure why foggy is looking at this gf as the love of his life and putting her up on such a pedestal.

 

She pursued foggy by asking him out to lunch. She made the first move. She is in her last year of college, networking with the guy she interned for. When they are not making goo goo eyes at each other they are probably talking shop. Foggy thinks she doesn't know he's got a job lined up for her. Maybe she doesn't. But it sounds like professional advancement is her likely objective. Otherwise it just means foggy is more or less lining up the job to try to maintain a hold on her affections. Not good either way. (Since when does anyone want a job lined up by their prospective lover with no input into the hiring process?)

 

The sharing of a single room on the four day trip is also a very bad move. It's not necessary for the romance, and it looks bad professionally. Get separate rooms and act professionally. You are on the trip to work, so work. Do your job. If she has no professional function for being there she can go sightseeing or try to network with other professionals who will be there as well. If you can't justify paying for the room as a business expense on your company's dime then she should pay her own room expenses.

 

There is absolutely no reason for foggy to pay for this woman's travel or hotel expense. If it's a legitimate business expense his company should pay. If it's not a legitimate business expense and she is there to be with foggy, she should pay her own way.

 

There are all kinds of issues pertaining to this romance, cheating, and you have discussed them already. What I am bringing up is that you are supposedly on a business trip so remember that.

 

If after hours she wants to pay you a visit then she's free to do that (or not do that) as the case may be. It might be kind of awkward if you only get a single room for the two of you and it turns out to have all been a big tease on her part, or some kind of a set-up to make a harassment claim (or insinuate it, that's just as good actually in your situation). If you only get a single room you are at this woman's mercy forever. A couple of years down the road if things don't go so well between you she will have the goods on you.

 

Also I get that you are having the butterflies and this chick is a hottie but seriously....she sounds like one pretty cold and calculating 22 year old to me. She's got a boy friend, at first she said nothing to you about him likely never seeing her again from your earlier posts on this thread. Then last night during your date she just coldly disposes of him, oh well he's long distance, see ya bye.

 

Unfortunately foggy if you are selecting your new soul mate, look carefully at what you're choosing. This little chickie is not only cheating with you on her college bf, she's also willing to go with you on this business trip and allow your employer to foot the bill for her share of the expenses--not to mention she knows you're married and that doesn't seem to phase her.

 

I think we all get that you are enraptured with the notion that somehow this chick loves you or you can make her fall in love with you whatev, it's not just sex.

 

There's more to a person than sex, though.

 

You called yourself foggy and confused, it's apt. Anyone in your position would be, right?

 

Now three days later, a good night kiss, some lovey dovey talk, and suddenly you're no longer foggy and confused? I think you still are.

 

You would do well if you can really think hard back six months ago WHY this chick was motivated to track you down and WHY she kept going out with you to lunch and WHY she has this interest in you all of a sudden. And how did you somehow get the notion to line up a job for her?

 

It amuses me that so many posters here at Love Shack think it is you who are taking advantage of her. She's not the person who will have to go through the divorce; you are. She's not the person possibly putting her job at risk through a sexual harassment beef, you are. She's not the person who helped your professional advancement, you helped hers.

 

There's no fool like an old fool. I'm not saying you're "old" or a "fool," but look at it from HER point of view....

 

what EXACTLY does she "see" in you?

 

I can't speak for her and say what she sees in me. At no time during the past six months has she ever asked me for any kind of professional help. I learned from my business associate friend that he was looking for an entry level person, to replace someone who was leaving for good, after she has a baby. This was a few months ago. I knew she was approaching graduation from college, so I recommended her. He looked over her resume, talked to me about her and said he would hire her. She currently works part time for another company in kind of the same industry.

 

Why am I putting her up on a pedestal? She is warm, caring, funny, intelligent, does charity work, comes from an upper middle class family, has no criminal record (not even a traffic ticket), graduated Magna Cum Laude, which I believe is the top 10-15% of her class, and has worked 20-30 hours a week for the last four years (plus doing my internship) and all while going to school full time. Her parent's would not pay for college, even though they can afford it. She got a moderate academic scholarship and has student loans for the rest. She is prompt, well kept, speaks intelligently, and is well liked by everyone I know that has interacted with her. She treats me very well, we get along great, listen to each other, confide in each other, and just really enjoy each other's company. She deserves to be put on a pedestal. She is done very well for herself, at such a young age.

 

I am self-employed, so I am not going to get fired. Nobody else that works for me (I have 4 full time employees) is going on this trip.

 

I understand the idea about the separate room and I think I will do that, as in asking her to pay for her own room. She already offered to pay half of the trip's expenses, but I declined. I know she would have no problem with this. As I said before, I would never push her to do anything she doesn't want to do. This trip is after she has graduated and almost three years after her internship ended. I doubt she would have any case for anything.

 

Plus, regardless of what you may think, I am a good judge of character. I have had probably over 100 interns over the past 15 years, so I am well in tune with the college mentality, who is trustworthy and who is unstable and potentially trouble. I have never even went to lunch with any other intern.

 

Her boyfriend is a college boyfriend she dated for around a year and a half. He lives far away and if she wanted to continue that relationship, she has free will to do so.

 

I didn't plan for this to happen. We always got along, during the internship and I told her back then she could use me as a recommendation. During the last six months, when nothing sexual happened, I have learned a lot about her and I know there is a lot more to her than just sex. I would not want to have sex with anyone, without knowing them very well first. Outside of a few one night stands and sex on the first dates, when I was in my 20's, I have never just jumped into bed with someone. This is no exception.

 

She agreed to the trip and still doesn't know about the job. I am going to wait until we are on the way home to tell her, so I do not skew her actions during the trip. She doesn't have to accept the job, if she doesn't want to.

 

Yes, I am still confused. I have a a pile of emotions going through my head, as is clear from reading all my posts in this thread. I have never had feelings like this and been involved in such a complicated situation.

 

As far as why she would suddenly, six months ago, ask me to lunch? I don't know. We have been facebook friends and she would rarely comment on a post, or like a picture. It is not that she completely vanished for more than a year and then suddenly returned, asking me to lunch and seducing me.

 

I understand your concern, but I highly doubt she has some evil agenda. How many times do friendships lead to job opportunities? When I was younger, before I started my own company, I got many jobs through friends and their recommendations.

 

I know to many I am just making excuses. Maybe I am. But this is how I feel. As I said before, I truly believe neither os us meant, or planned for this to happen. Where will it lead? I cannot answer that at this time, but I do have high hopes and for once, in a long time, I feel cared about and that I matter.

[bentnotbroken]

I can't speak for her and say what she sees in me. At no time during the past six months has she ever asked me for any kind of professional help. I learned from my business associate friend that he was looking for an entry level person, to replace someone who was leaving for good, after she has a baby. This was a few months ago. I knew she was approaching graduation from college, so I recommended her. He looked over her resume, talked to me about her and said he would hire her. She currently works part time for another company in kind of the same industry.

 

Why am I putting her up on a pedestal? She is warm, caring, funny, intelligent, does charity work, comes from an upper middle class family, has no criminal record (not even a traffic ticket), graduated Magna Cum Laude, which I believe is the top 10-15% of her class, and has worked 20-30 hours a week for the last four years (plus doing my internship) and all while going to school full time. Her parent's would not pay for college, even though they can afford it. She got a moderate academic scholarship and has student loans for the rest. She is prompt, well kept, speaks intelligently, and is well liked by everyone I know that has interacted with her. She treats me very well, we get along great, listen to each other, confide in each other, and just really enjoy each other's company. She deserves to be put on a pedestal. She is done very well for herself, at such a young age.

 

I am self-employed, so I am not going to get fired. Nobody else that works for me (I have 4 full time employees) is going on this trip.

 

I understand the idea about the separate room and I think I will do that, as in asking her to pay for her own room. She already offered to pay half of the trip's expenses, but I declined. I know she would have no problem with this. As I said before, I would never push her to do anything she doesn't want to do. This trip is after she has graduated and almost three years after her internship ended. I doubt she would have any case for anything.

 

Plus, regardless of what you may think, I am a good judge of character. I have had probably over 100 interns over the past 15 years, so I am well in tune with the college mentality, who is trustworthy and who is unstable and potentially trouble. I have never even went to lunch with any other intern.

 

Her boyfriend is a college boyfriend she dated for around a year and a half. He lives far away and if she wanted to continue that relationship, she has free will to do so.

 

I didn't plan for this to happen. We always got along, during the internship and I told her back then she could use me as a recommendation. During the last six months, when nothing sexual happened, I have learned a lot about her and I know there is a lot more to her than just sex. I would not want to have sex with anyone, without knowing them very well first. Outside of a few one night stands and sex on the first dates, when I was in my 20's, I have never just jumped into bed with someone. This is no exception.

 

She agreed to the trip and still doesn't know about the job. I am going to wait until we are on the way home to tell her, so I do not skew her actions during the trip. She doesn't have to accept the job, if she doesn't want to.

 

Yes, I am still confused. I have a a pile of emotions going through my head, as is clear from reading all my posts in this thread. I have never had feelings like this and been involved in such a complicated situation.

 

As far as why she would suddenly, six months ago, ask me to lunch? I don't know. We have been facebook friends and she would rarely comment on a post, or like a picture. It is not that she completely vanished for more than a year and then suddenly returned, asking me to lunch and seducing me.

 

I understand your concern, but I highly doubt she has some evil agenda. How many times do friendships lead to job opportunities? When I was younger, before I started my own company, I got many jobs through friends and their recommendations.

 

I know to many I am just making excuses. Maybe I am. But this is how I feel. As I said before, I truly believe neither os us meant, or planned for this to happen. Where will it lead? I cannot answer that at this time, but I do have high hopes and for once, in a long time, I feel cared about and that I matter.

 

 

You are planning and mean for something to happen.

[whichwayisup]

I am going to ask her for a divorce. Just not now. I am not ready to drop the bomb just yet. I need to get things in order, see what my upcoming weekend holds, put some money aside to start anew, find a place to live (maybe with my new friend?) and all this is going to take some time.

Did you forget she has a boyfriend?

 

Also, you plan on moving in a this 22 year old, straight out of your house, out of your marriage? You also do need to think about your 20 year son and the affect it's going to have on him, even though your current wife is his stepmom.

 

Moving in with her is a big mistake, but you're in a fog and hellbent on seeing this through...You're 'dating' her now, spending time away from your wife on a Saturday night.

 

That upcoming weekend buisness trip will confirm everything and an A will officially begin.

 

I get that you're not happy, but the honest way (so you can live with yourself) is to divorce before you go and cheat on your wife. This isn't "just" happening, you've been feeding a new friendship, letting feelings grow for a while now. It's a choice to spend time with another woman that isn't your wife. Not a mistake.

[foggyandconfused]

My son goes to college in another state. Yes it will affect him, but if I know the figures right, 50% of kids go through a divorce of a parent at some age. Plus, it is not his real mom.

 

I didn't say we had plans at this time to move in together, but if things progress through the summer and she starts the job and can afford it, I would not argue against us moving in together. A lot would have to happen to get to that point. I guess that is wishful thinking on my part. If you ask me, I should not have to move at all. My wife should find her own place. I can only imagine the forum firestorm if I was going to do that, which I am not, unless she wants to sell our condo.

 

I do not want to live in some hotel or cheap apartment for 3-4 months and then have to move again.

Edited May 8, 2011 by foggyandconfused

[Eve]

I am wondering how the relationship with your sons Mum ended? Just curious.

 

Will it matter to him that his new step mum will be basically his age?

 

Maybe your wife will move out once she knows? Often the person being left will go to family for support. It may be a while before she will want to discuss property.

 

You come across more shrewdly by the second, OP.

 

This 22 year old won't want the trip if she knew about the job opportunity firstly. No way! You not telling her firstly is to secure sex.

 

Also at the mention of legal ramifications you change and decide she should pay for her own room.

 

Very tit for tat... don't you think?

 

Take care,

Eve x

[John Michael Kane]

My son goes to college in another state. Yes it will affect him, but if I know the figures right, 50% of kids go through a divorce of a parent at some age. Plus, it is not his real mom.

 

So what you're still hurting everyone around you for a piece of booty because you think you deserve it and it'll make you young again.

 

I didn't say we had plans at this time to move in together, but if things progress through the summer and she starts the job and can afford it, I would not argue against us moving in together. A lot would have to happen to get to that point. I guess that is wishful thinking on my part. If you ask me, I should not have to move at all. My wife should find her own place. I can only imagine the forum firestorm if I was going to do that, which I am not, unless she wants to sell our condo.

 

I do not want to live in some hotel or cheap apartment for 3-4 months and then have to move again.

Well you know what you should've thought about where you were going to be living before you decided to cheat.

 

How about YOU get out and find your own place? How do you know your wife will just accept you moving in with someone who has a boyfriend? You're the man, you're the hot shot that has it all going for himself with the hot lady at his side. You're the cheater, you move out.

 

As old as you are, you're highly immature and it saddens me to see my fellow elders engage in this type of behavior. Now my generation has to pick up after your disastrous decisions.

[Susmay]

To Fog & Con,

 

Have you thought about starting a thread on the OW/OM forum? You will probably get a much more sympathetic response there as well as some understanding of what it will be like from the OW viewpoint.

 

You're not necessarily an OM but the 22 year old is an OW for sure. Being an OW to a MM has its own set of characteristics and problems.

 

You never seem to want to discuss things on this forum about your wife and marriage, other than to complain incessantly about them, which BTW is very typical MM behaviour.

 

However you have wanted to discuss things from the OW's perspective several times in this thread already. This thread will likely continue on in the same vein but you may get less criticism and more support and the sort of discussion you are after, if you also start a thread in the Other forum. There will be more posters there that don't regularly post in this forum that have experience from a different part of the triangle.

[RRM]

I second Susmay's advice. I think you'll get some different advice at the OM/OW forum and it might give you some more information to think about.

[whichwayisup]

There are exOW and current OW on this thread replying to him, not just BS's and honestly, he isn't going to much hand holding over there. I figure, most OW would tell him more or less the same thing, to leave and divorce his wife before pursuing smoeone else. Even more so since he's got one foot out the door anyway.. This co worker is more than likely "the exit affair" for him.

 

He's had TONS of good and helpful advice on here. To start another thread, for what? So he can have a select few tell him "to go for it" and start the affar? Cheer him on? Give him tons of sympathy and handholding through this process which will devastate his wife? If that was/is the case, then why did he even bother posting on LS to begin with? Unless he's looking for someone to tell him it's okay to cheat and tell him he's doing the right thing by doing this.

 

Maybe the difference is, he won't be told he's selfish in that section.. But, there will be some OW who will push and ask questions, make him stop and think, which is what is going on in THIS thread now.

[foggyandconfused]

This 22 year old won't want the trip if she knew about the job opportunity firstly. No way! You not telling her firstly is to secure sex.

 

And if I told her now I would be telling her I got her a job, hoping be rewarded with sex on the trip, right?

 

Also at the mention of legal ramifications you change and decide she should pay for her own room.

 

So, I shouldn't take any advice I receive on this forum?

 

It is funny how some will take anything I say to try to make me out to be some horrible guy. Maybe I am for being in this situation. I just know that no matter what I say, some of you will lash out like I am some evil playground pedophile.

 

I am trying to absorb some advice, while tuning out the jaded woman who hate all men that stray from their wives, no matter what the reason. The truth of the matter is that if my wife would have taken my serious problem with our marriage to heart, tried to find alternatives and things that would make me feel worthwhile in our marriage, and not just sluffed it off for years like ti didn't matter, leaving me to feel like I am living with a roommate, this would not have happened.

 

Of course I still love my wife. I cannot just wipe away ten years of marriage in a few days. I will always love her.

 

However, I am learning that I need to look out after #1, because for years nobody else has given a flying f**k. Even though our marriage, outside of the lack of affection, has been good (no real fighting - we spend lots of time together, get along with our families, have m,any mutual friends, etc), living with a roommate is not enough. I need and deserve to be loved. As I have said, I have pleaded and tried very hard to get some resolution to this situation and tried to help her in many ways. I have tried to make her feel sexy and appreciated. Tried to make her feel loved. I get a little hug about once a month and a peck of a kiss.

 

Now, I am feeling more and more that I should look out after me and only me, for once in my life. I know you women that want to be worshipped 24/7, no matter what YOU do, think this is so horrible, but I do not.

[OpenBook]

Maybe the difference is, he won't be told he's selfish in that section.. But, there will be some OW who will push and ask questions, make him stop and think, which is what is going on in THIS thread now.

 

Yes, and look how well that's working here! He went from "I'm so confused, I still love my W, the last 10 years have been the best" to "I'm done with my neglectful W, I'm going to divorce her and move in with the 22yo hottie - but only AFTER I nail her on the next business trip." Nice work!

[foggyandconfused]

It is interesting to me that so many talk about how devastating this will be for my wife, but none of you bias women care than I have been devastated for years, trying to give love and affection and getting none in return.

 

I have pleaded with her to try counseling, even if we have to see many therapists to find one we are comfortable with I have planned romantic vacations and not even received a passionate kiss or a thank you, told her almost daily how sexy she looked, tried to hug her and give her affection, only to be pushed away, I have done things throughout our marriage to help her out when she works a long day, such as laundry, dishes, cleaning the house, mopping the floors, making dinner, giving her massages, et cetera, a lot of things that a lot of other "good" husbands do not do. Do I do these every single day, without fail? No. Do I do them a lot more often than most married men I know? Yes.

 

Some of you women are pretty transparent and selfish (just like I am becoming), defending the woman at all costs. Basically I see you as hypocrites. There are two sides to the coin, you know.

 

After the years of putting up with no affection, I should immediately disrupt my life and move out? Sorry, it ain't going to happen. I will make plans, with or without the new girlfriend, to make as smooth of a transition as I can for myself.

Edited May 9, 2011 by foggyandconfused

[foggyandconfused]

One more thing. I am hoping my wife doesn't find out about my friend.

 

I want to try to divorce and leave, causing her as little pain as possible.

 

I am just not going to do anything to hurt any possibilities I may have with my new romantic interest.

[Susmay]

...

 

After the years of putting up with no affection, I should immediately disrupt my life and move out? Sorry, it ain't going to happen. I will make plans, with or without the new girlfriend, to make as smooth of a transition as I can for myself.

 

Oh you mean a "managed exit"?

 

I just knew there would be something for you on the O/woman forum.

 

In an earlier post you you said all these wonderful things to justify putting your OW on a pedestal. It's amazing that you forgot all the horrible things about her. I won't list them for fear of getting infracted but you know what the words are and what she is.

[BB07]

I'm doubting foggy is for real as it's hard to believe a 40 something man would spout the stuff he has in the last few posts. Seems his posts have took the defensive stand of being a woman basher/hater lately.

 

I would think a real poster would have just taken leave of LS if he decided to go on with it instead of acting like a pouty little child. I smell the bs..........does anyone else?

[Flgirl44]

For me personally, I am not trying to defend how your wife has treated you. I have been your wife if anything. I have neglected and pushed away my last ex until he got to the point you did. He wasn't nearly as proactive as you are around the house or vocal about his rejection but none-the-less he still felt the same way as I found out later. I wished badly that I could've had the chance to do something before he cheated. I realize (now) by then he was already checked out and that was something that I felt was unfair as far as communication. While it was never my intention to hurt him I did. I didn't realize how serious it was until it was too late. I wish he had been more honest about it being too late. I put myself in your wife's shoes and that's why I asked you to consider letting her know how bad it's gotten as a last ditch effort. I can see now that, that isn't what you want. I wish you luck either way as we are all human.

[foggyandconfused]

I'm doubting foggy is for real as it's hard to believe a 40 something man would spout the stuff he has in the last few posts. Seems his posts have took the defensive stand of being a woman basher/hater lately.

 

I would think a real poster would have just taken leave of LS if he decided to go on with it instead of acting like a pouty little child. I smell the bs..........does anyone else?

 

I am a woman basher! That is funny. Look back objectively and see how the woman have bashed everything I have said.

 

I doubt you BB07 have much real life experience in the last three years, posting 3200 times since 2009. Perhaps You should leave LS and go out into the real world. 3200 posts in 3 years? Do you even have a life, outside of sitting in front of your computer, pretending to know it all?

 

I really don't care if you think I am a fake.

[Susmay]

I am a woman basher! That is funny. Look back objectively and see how the woman have bashed everything I have said.

 

I doubt you BB07 have much real life experience in the last three years, posting 3200 times since 2009. Perhaps You should leave LS and go out into the real world. 3200 posts in 3 years? Do you even have a life, outside of sitting in front of your computer, pretending to know it all?

 

I really don't care if you think I am a fake.

 

You are especially misogynistic. Towards your wife, the women on LS generally and some specific ones too. Not the one you put on a pedestal, but her time will come. You come across very similarly to a woman who hates other women.

 

By the way you should check out your average daily posting compared with BB07. It's more than double hers.

[John Michael Kane]

I'm doubting foggy is for real as it's hard to believe a 40 something man would spout the stuff he has in the last few posts. Seems his posts have took the defensive stand of being a woman basher/hater lately.

 

His responses are quite typical of someone who has cheated.

[foggyandconfused]

You are especially misogynistic. Towards your wife, the women on LS generally and some specific ones too. Not the one you put on a pedestal, but her time will come. You come across very similarly to a woman who hates other women.

 

Why, because I won't be ganged up on and because I defend myself? I have been open to sound advice, delivered in a nice way, and have thanked people for it. It is just the name calling, generalizations, mean spiritedness, and know-it-all attitude by some women here that make me point it out. If that makes me misogynistic, I guess I am.

 

By the way you should check out your average daily posting compared with BB07. It's more than double hers.

 

The difference is that I will not be here three years and 3200 posts later, pretending to be some condescending know-it-all.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Dear Foggy (or whatever);

 

Most of us are not "defending the woman." Most of us are taking a stand for courage and honesty. Those are attractive features in both men and women, for a great majority of us.

 

Why should anyone feel sorry for you because you have "tried" to have sex 4 times in 6 years ... and 2 of those ended without consummation because your wife is ill?

 

You've chosen to remain in this situation! And now you are riding the "waaaaambulance" all the way to a rich fantasy about your "FRIEND." Which, according to this pathetic tale, is the only path to happiness for you. Oh, my goodness.

 

A man with honor, courage, ethics, and passion would either (long since) have worked this out with the wife that he "loves," or called it quits.

 

I'm pretty sure there is not really any succulent 22 year old with a boyfriend ready to cheat on him just to experience the volcanic explosion of your long pent up passionate love juices ... but I hope all the attention you've garnered on this thread has at least enhanced your life somewhat.

[John Michael Kane]

For me personally, I am not trying to defend how your wife has treated you. I have been your wife if anything. I have neglected and pushed away my last ex until he got to the point you did. He wasn't nearly as proactive as you are around the house or vocal about his rejection but none-the-less he still felt the same way as I found out later. I wished badly that I could've had the chance to do something before he cheated. I realize (now) by then he was already checked out and that was something that I felt was unfair as far as communication. While it was never my intention to hurt him I did. I didn't realize how serious it was until it was too late. I wish he had been more honest about it being too late. I put myself in your wife's shoes and that's why I asked you to consider letting her know how bad it's gotten as a last ditch effort. I can see now that, that isn't what you want. I wish you luck either way as we are all human.

 

You were never at fault for what he did. Sure you probably were a mean woman, but that does not excuse him sneaking around and using that to make you feel guilty.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why, because I won't be ganged up on and because I defend myself? I have been open to sound advice, delivered in a nice way, and have thanked people for it. It is just the name calling, generalizations, mean spiritedness, and know-it-all attitude by some women here that make me point it out. If that makes me misogynistic, I guess I am.

 

Most of the men on your thread have had the same opinion as we women have. Sorry, weak liars are not very admired by either gender.

 

 

 

The difference is that I will not be here three years and 3200 posts later, pretending to be some condescending know-it-all.

 

Well, you might be if you didn't come back with a different user name (similar tale, though) time and time again.

 

Now, were is that post from your "friend" I've been waiting for, explaining her side of this love story? Bring it on!

[whichwayisup]

One more thing. I am hoping my wife doesn't find out about my friend.

 

I want to try to divorce and leave, causing her as little pain as possible.

 

I am just not going to do anything to hurt any possibilities I may have with my new romantic interest.

 

FC, wouldn't it just be easier to put your friend on hold, that affair/whatever it's going to be.. ON hold? You've waited this long, wait a little longer.. Wait until you're divorced before pursuing her, your conscious will be clean.

 

Your wife may or may not find out, if she does, the man who you think you are, the man she thinks you are, the man your family and inlaws, even son, think you are, will be gone in an instant.

 

I completely get how unhappy you are, for a long time... The thing is, you have enabled your wife by staying. Put up with things because you're afraid to lay it all out on the line and just be honest with her, put the D on the table. I just don't like the sense of entitlement you feel you have, the justifcation to go ahead and do what you plan on doing.

 

A while ago you were leaning on the side of caution, taking time to think things through, now it's gone the other way and you're jumping in.

 

Reguardless of the outcome, it's going to be painful, just depends on how many people get hurt along the way. I hope that make sense.

[Garrgoil]

It is interesting to me that so many talk about how devastating this will be for my wife, but none of you bias women care than I have been devastated for years, trying to give love and affection and getting none in return.

 

I'm not a bias woman. But there is huge irony in your story. You are someone who has put up with no sex for years while bending over backwards for your sexless wife. IOW it seems you put her on a pedestal, never demanding/insisting on a healthy sex life as part of your marriage. You never made the connection that men who are doormats are not viewed as sexually attractive by their wives. I'm not arguing with you that you were fed a crap sandwich for so long in your marriage, I'm stating that you were willing to accept it for so long.

 

Now, the very first time you explore another relationship, you've been out on one date with this chick, and you do exactly the same thing. You put her right up on that pedestal.

 

This is the same girl you described as very sexually open. This is the type of girl who would have no problem having sex on the first date with a guy she really liked as much as you believe she likes you. Yet here you are ready to pay for her trip, bending over backwards to line up a job for her when she didn't even ask you to...IOW replaying the doormat role. And you didn't get sex from her did you.

 

Now why wouldn't she have sex with you if she likes you so much, and is sexually open? Because she doesn't have to and doesn't want to. And because you are playing the doormat with her. You claim you want to get to know her first--but you've been doing that for six months, and you knew her from before. Those lunches were "dates" of a sort, maybe not romantic ones, but it's not like you don't "know" her yet? You're talking about leaving your wife for this woman yet you don't think you know her well enough to have sex with her on the first "real" date?

 

Listen, I would NEVER take a woman on a four day trip that I have just dated once and had a few lunches with. That's ridiculous. Before you have even established a sexual relationship with her?

 

You claim you want to have sex, yet it sounds like you didn't even try when you probably had the chance last night. When are you going to get a better chance? You should have propositioned her then and there, at least you'd know where you stand.

 

 

 

 

I have pleaded with her to try counseling, even if we have to see many therapists to find one we are comfortable with I have planned romantic vacations and not even received a passionate kiss or a thank you, told her almost daily how sexy she looked, tried to hug her and give her affection, only to be pushed away, I have done things throughout our marriage to help her out when she works a long day, such as laundry, dishes, cleaning the house, mopping the floors, making dinner, giving her massages, et cetera, a lot of things that a lot of other "good" husbands do not do.

 

Classic doormat behavior. She's emotionally abusive to you by denying affection and sex and you bend over backwards doing the household chores. Ridiculous. That's what I was talking about. Why does a woman who denies you sex like you said your wife does, deserve such treatment? Yet you immediately do basically the same thing with the new chick. If you ever do get over to her apartment you will probably put the apron on and wash her dishes too, then wonder why she doesn't want to have sex with you either.

 

The big question mark obviously is your first marriage, how and why did it end? Also why did you marry your second wife? Was she ever sexual/affectionate?

 

I think anyone who was willing to go without sex for six years like you have is pretty naiive about women and sex. I understand she had some medical issues but after a few months of no sex and being turned down (if not long before) surely a normal healthy man reaches the breaking point. If I had no sex at all for even a few weeks I would be impossible to live with, I am sure I would lay down some pretty serious ultimatums (fortunately never had to find out personally).

 

 

Do I do these every single day, without fail? No. Do I do them a lot more often than most married men I know? Yes.

 

Yes this is the point. If you are not getting any sex why would you wash a single dish? I would have just said "Screw them dishes, we will use paper plates." If she doesn't like it she can wash 'em.

 

 

Some of you women are pretty transparent and selfish (just like I am becoming), defending the woman at all costs. Basically I see you as hypocrites. There are two sides to the coin, you know.

 

Regardless of whatever issues you think others might have, if everything is going down just like you said, it indicates to me that you don't understand women. Neither your wife, nor this new chick, nor I imagine others. The time to have tried to seal the deal with the new girl was yesterday. You were too polite, too respectful, you put her on the pedestal, so now she has absolutely no respect for you as a man. (Not to say she would have actually had sex with you last night but you didn't even try.) When a chick tells you "Let's take it one day at a time" that's a pretty telling indicator that she's just stringing you along and that's her out.

 

 

 

After the years of putting up with no affection, I should immediately disrupt my life and move out? Sorry, it ain't going to happen. I will make plans, with or without the new girlfriend, to make as smooth of a transition as I can for myself.

 

She's not your girlfriend if by girlfriend you mean "A woman who I have sex with." Men in their 40's don't consider themselves to be "in a romantic relationship" with a woman if there hasn't been sex yet, unless of course they're the type of guy who doesn't get that having sex is what makes it a relationship in the first place.