Addicted to a Person

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Just when I thought I was out...

 

I wimped out last night and texted her. I'll transcribe the convo here, just so there is no confusion:

 

Me: Hey

Her: Hi

Me: How was your day?

Her: Good. Yours?

Me: Not bad. I applied for a job at my gym. (Note: And I did THIS to impress her, but that was not discussed. I AM AN INSANE PERSON) Just got out of rehearsal. New tunes went well. (Note: I am a musician in a band. Just regular band rehearsal.)

Her: A job at ur gym?

Me: Yeah. They had a sign up that they were hiring, so I filled out an application before I left. The guys asked if I had sales experience (note: I don't), so we'll see how that goes.

Her: Good luck

Me: Thanks. Is everything cool?

Her: Yea. Going to bed. Goodnight.

 

Now, I interpreted this that everything was NOT cool, that she is annoyed with me, that I'm bothering her, that she wants nothing to do with me. However, we've established that, in situations involving this girl, I'm a crazy person, so my conclusions are to be questioned. Not knowing what to say, and not wanting to be annoying, I don't respond.

 

I get a text this morning at 9:40 AM, which is when she's leaving for work (she has a job that requires her to go on the road a lot, and she had like a 10:30 appointment that was the first thing she had to do for the day).

 

Her: Hey mr I don't say goodnight to [her name]

Me: sorry, I came back to the phone a couple minutes later and was worried I'd wake you. Good morning? (note: Yes, this was a lie. I was concerned that too much of my crazy would come out if I said "Yeah, I read way too ****ing much into your incredibly innocuous 'goodnight' text, assumed you hated me, and stayed up until 2:30am obsessing over you.")

 

She tried to send me a couple other texts, but was trying to drive and was using a new phone, so it wasn't working. So she just calls me and we shoot the **** for a half hour, and all of the sudden everything seems OK.

 

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME?

[smudge21]

Hey Bruce, you're speaking my language here. I can't count the amount of times I've acted this way. Over analyzing everything and thinking 'what if' to every single situation. I send a text - few minutes later, I regret it, but then next time I don't send a text - few minutes later I regret that. Then I spend hours pondering what she must be thinking; what's going on in her head. I try to imagine her reaction and what she may respond with. I also do the 'talking to myself as if she's there' thing. I did that so many times last year over my recent ex. Yet, whenever we spoke, nothing I had imagined ever came true.

 

Call it an addiction, call it love, call it desire or just that simple need that we must have someone, or maybe it's just a simple chemical inbalance in our brains which gets triggered and linked to a certain person... whatever it is, we all do stupid things when we're like this and then regret them. The truth is, whatever you do is okay - we're all only human afterall, and you can never know how the other person is feeling about what you've done. You've got to remember that they're just human too and equally bound by the same rules of 'screwing up when we're interested in someone'.

 

As for those text messages - they made me chuckle as I swear I've had that exact same conversation before and also felt it ended badly, only to wake in the morning and receive a text which makes me realise it didn't, and everything's okay. I'd say stop trying to think about things too much, but coming from someone who does exactly the same, it's quite hard to take.

 

One thing I was pondering recently: when I first met my recent ex, I wasn't interested in anything more than a friend. She's attractive (very attractive) but I wasn't attracted to her. Now because of this, I was able to talk to her like I would anyone. She was just some person who I met and got along with. For over a month that's all she was and we got along so well. Now fast forward past that to beyong the flirting which started up and beyond the feelings and suddenly I'm Mr Useless... worrying about what to say, what to do, constantly thinking about what she may be doing, how she may be feeling. Then when we meet, I'm still able to talk as normal, but now I'm over thinking everything. It's like due to all these feelings for her coming into play, I've turned into a totally different person. I often did try to think back to how I was with her before, and for the life of me I couldn't be that person again around her. Whereas before I could quite easily not speak to her or not reply to her texts, now I was like I must see her, I must reply instantly. The thought of not replying was out of the question! The old relaxed me was dead simply due to my emotional bond with her...

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Here we go.

 

We talked today, and she asked if I wanted to meet her at the mall after I got out of work; she needed to buy a dress for some charity event and we could hang out for a bit.

 

Now, I ****ing loathe clothes shopping. It's probably my least favorite thing to do in the world. The only worse thing is hanging out with someone else while THEY go clothes shopping. It's ****ing excruciating. UGH.

 

So, of course, I jump at the opportunity.

 

I get myself all dolled up to go tutor some kid, and a text comes through: "So my roomie and I are gonna go and spend some time together. Sorry :/"

 

This is reasonable, as I know she's been having some issues with her roommate. She had texted me earlier in the day to tell me that her roommate was ignoring her texts, and I think she wanted to resolve things.

 

I shouldn't care. I wasn't going to have fun anyway. And yet, I'm crushed. I wanted to see if she might be around tomorrow, but she "already has cinco de mayo plans." She offered to meet for lunch, but I'm working during the day, and she's taking off for the weekend for her sister's bridal shower or some such nonsense.

 

She apologized, and asked if I was upset. I lied and said that it wasn't an issue at all and not to worry about it.

 

I really want to be cool about this, but it just keeps making me turn into a bigger and bigger psycho.

[Titania22]

Hey Guys,

 

As you know I have been puzzling over this being addicted to/in love with thing.

 

And a completely different way of looking at it came to me, one that I find really compelling and empowering.

 

Let's throw out the idea that we are addicts for a moment.

 

The idea was that at some point in our past we were given a program to do with what love is supposed to look like (and our partner, etc), and we accepted that program. Now each time that the program triggers we live out reality exactly the same way we did when we first ran the program. That is why generally we can act as our grown up selves, and go along with our days perfectly fine, but in this one instance (with the person we have put in the role of partner this time playing the program), we actually act like an earlier version of ourselves.

 

It completely explains why i just went through 2wks of being all emotional and behaving like i would have when i was a teenager (including that old favourite "I don't want be alive anymore, maybe I'll just kill myself" (can you hear the whiny voice, i know i can), and the classic "no one cares"), and then when the scenario had run its course, I have gradually returned to being my present adult self as if that 2 weeks hadn't even happened.

 

So instead of perceiving myself as a junkie looking with my next hit, i can see myself playing the role of an addict whenever the program is triggered. That is why getting distance from the other character (in this romantic comedy), is enough to return me to normal. So now I need to accept that that was a fun program when i was 16, and 20, but now that I am almost 40, it is outdated, especially since the man in the program stays a youthful 20 forever.

 

Anyway I hope this empowers some of you.

 

TheyCallMeBruce I feel your pain.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

She texted me some pics of her modeling the clothes she just bought, asking my opinion. I figure this means one of three things:

 

1) She values my opinion of her appearance. I suggested one outfit over the other because it made her look "classier," and she asked if I also thought she looked hot (she did). This would be good, because it would mean that she wants me to be attracted to her.

 

2) She sees me as a friend only. Like the gay guy you would take shopping. This would be horrible.

 

3) It doesn't mean anything, and I'm just being crazy again.

 

I wish that I could just get her to relax and date me so I could relax, because I know she would be really happy in a relationship with me. I adore her, I'm a lot of fun, and I would treat her like a princess. Also, in a relationship, I never feel as needy or insecure because I know where I stand. Or, at least, that's what usually happens. I suppose all bets are off with this girl.

 

I feel bad to be constantly harping on this girl in here, because I'm sure most of you don't care, but she's literally 95% of what I've been thinking about for the last couple weeks.

[smudge21]

You were willing to go clothes shopping with her and now she's sending you pics asking for your advice on what to wear... hmmm... sorry to say this Bruce but clearly she thinks you are gay. End of. Might as well pack up and give in.

 

Only joking, I'm sure that's not the case, although you do have to wonder what goes through a girls mind sometimes. Personally instead of being fine with her turning you down, I'd have probably said I was a bit dissapointed but okay with it. Kinda' makes her realise you are interested, but you're not really saying it.

 

I do think you need to chill here though - think back to how you were in the early days or even before you met her. Just try to be that same person, without all the needy stuff. Everyone loves mystery and challenge as they keep things exciting. Obviously I'm not saying you should blindfold her, throw her in the back of your car and dump the car in the river giving her 10 minutes to escape - I mean more the mystery that comes with meeting someone new and wanting to get to know them. That said, there's nothing like saving a woman from drowning in a car to really get a romance started. Just a thought.

 

I think it's time to start remembering that this girl may very well be just as nervous as you are about all this. She may very well be asking her friends about the situation just like you are. She may very well be posting on this forum. You don't know. I know it's hard but you really have to start seeing the positives in all this and focus on them. A girl is interested in you and values your opinion and wants to spend time with you. Accept it and see where it goes.

 

Of course, if things do go wrong, then at least you've already got the gay thing down perfectly...

[Titania22]

She texted me some pics of her modeling the clothes she just bought, asking my opinion. I figure this means one of three things:

 

Unfortunately for you Bruce, some girls do this and it generally means nothing more than i value your opinion. The only way you are ever going to know if she wants you, is if you spell it out for her and see her reaction. Otherwise you are doomed to be in your current holding pattern until something external separates you.

 

Did you guys have anything to say at all about my last post? It was a big eureka moment for me, and seems to have been completely ignored by everyone.

[Nexus One]

Did you guys have anything to say at all about my last post? It was a big eureka moment for me, and seems to have been completely ignored by everyone.

 

I read it, but I didn't have anything to add to it, because it made sense. I'm wondering though, is the fact that your ideal guy is 20 years old also the/a reason for you to go (back) to university? (Since there are many 20 year old guys dwelling there)

 

I have another question regarding that. Most universities, except for maybe the uni's with really big names like Harvard, have only relatively young students. Wouldn't you feel like you would stand out in that sense? I don't mean any disrespect with that, just genuinely curious about that.

 

And another question regarding that. You mentioned you wanted to do one or more studies, but that seems quite time consuming. How would you integrate that with your current life and work?

[Titania22]

I read it, but I didn't have anything to add to it, because it made sense. I'm wondering though, is the fact that your ideal guy is 20 years old also the/a reason for you to go (back) to university? (Since there are many 20 year old guys dwelling there)

 

I have another question regarding that. Most universities, except for maybe the uni's with really big names like Harvard, have only relatively young students. Wouldn't you feel like you would stand out in that sense? I don't mean any disrespect with that, just genuinely curious about that.

 

And another question regarding that. You mentioned you wanted to do one or more studies, but that seems quite time consuming. How would you integrate that with your current life and work?

 

I have multiple interests in going back to University.

 

Obviously the fact there are young people there, is a perk.

 

But I am also challenged by the fact that I am unemployable as I am now, I have spent alot of time out of the workplace, and when I did work, I either quit or was fired in the first 3 months. So I need a completely fresh start.

 

Also I owe a large sum of money with a deadline of repayment, and being unemployable makes it virtually impossible to save. By doing an undergraduate degree, I can get money for studying, and squirrel it away to pay my debt.

 

Also over the next few years, my childsupport is going to diminish and eventually stop, the study money can make up the difference in the meantime, but I still need to be employable by the end.

 

Basically after looking at all my options at the start of this year, it seemed like the only one that gave me a chance of a future. I couldn't get paid for postgrad studies, so that wasn't really an option either. I am hoping to find some sort of career that inspires me, and am cool to take the PhD route if that seems viable.

 

Obviously the fact of all the young guys was a perk.

 

Also I applied to work the 2011 census, and if i don't hear back from them, that will be absolute proof that absolutely no one will hire me.

[Nexus One]

I have multiple interests in going back to University.

 

Obviously the fact there are young people there, is a perk.

 

But I am also challenged by the fact that I am unemployable as I am now, I have spent alot of time out of the workplace, and when I did work, I either quit or was fired in the first 3 months. So I need a completely fresh start.

 

Also I owe a large sum of money with a deadline of repayment, and being unemployable makes it virtually impossible to save. By doing an undergraduate degree, I can get money for studying, and squirrel it away to pay my debt.

 

Also over the next few years, my childsupport is going to diminish and eventually stop, the study money can make up the difference in the meantime, but I still need to be employable by the end.

 

Basically after looking at all my options at the start of this year, it seemed like the only one that gave me a chance of a future. I couldn't get paid for postgrad studies, so that wasn't really an option either. I am hoping to find some sort of career that inspires me, and am cool to take the PhD route if that seems viable.

 

Obviously the fact of all the young guys was a perk.

 

Also I applied to work the 2011 census, and if i don't hear back from them, that will be absolute proof that absolutely no one will hire me.

 

That seems like a difficult position to be in. Also sounds like the Australian job market is tough at the moment. I sincerely hope it works out for you Titania.

[Titania22]

That seems like a difficult position to be in. Also sounds like the Australian job market is tough at the moment. I sincerely hope it works out for you Titania.

 

 

Thanks, I just always put my kids and relationships first, and this is the consequences of that. So this is the transitional part of my life going from the first half to the second half. I don't regret putting my loved ones first, I would have regretted not doing that, but now I have a few years grace to prep with an independent second half.

[nyc_guy2003]

Mr. Bruce -- your posts make complete sense to me. I have done every single thing you've mentioned. I fall asleep to imaginary conversations and I plan my email communications days in advance, down to the type of punctuation I expect to use to give myself the best chance of impressing her.

[Titania22]

I have had another thought regarding all this.

 

Continuing with the idea, that these addictive love behaviours are a program, that I have occasionally run since i was a teenager.

 

I am considering why even after all these years, I would choose to run it, when it is obviously detrimental to myself, those around me, and never gets me the object of my desire anyway.

 

Right now, I have gone back to normal adult operating, and technically it has been 2-3months since I shut done in terms of dating/socialising. And also since that weekend when I was really horny, and one of you suggested I avoid all sexual stimulation to get myself back in control. And so I did that, and I am happily completely under control. But I am thinking I want to be checking out guys again, not because I am horny or anything sane like that, but because I want some novelty. So I wonder if I periodically activate the program to increase the novelty in my life (just another version of creating drama).

 

It's just a thought, but I suppose if I could find something compelling in my life (and by compelling I am not necessarily talking about a relationship), maybe I would naturally stop periodically running the program.

 

What do you guys think? Does this idea seem plausible, or am I really off base?

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I don't know. You might be right. Except, at least in my case, I didn't want drama. I just got out of a relationship that was loaded to the gills with drama, and it was incredibly stressful and unpleasant. What I wanted to do was go out with my friends and pick up chicks at bars.

 

Instead, I'm pining over a girl whom I don't think is all that interested, but over whom I can't seem to stop obsessing. If my brain was craving this, then I have a stupid brain.

[Titania22]

 

Instead, I'm pining over a girl whom I don't think is all that interested, but over whom I can't seem to stop obsessing. If my brain was craving this, then I have a stupid brain.

 

Well you have a brain that is affected by the messages surrounding it, whether you are consciously aware of them or not. Since I have been thinking about this, I have realised that alot of the lyrics in the songs I most like, are about that obsessive type of love, or pining or begging for love from those unwilling to give it. Even romantic comedy movies, seem to be giving me the message that I am unworthy of the love of those I would desire.

 

Question is if someone wrote a song (and no doubt has already been written) about a healthy loving relationship, would I really enjoy it and play it over and over again? I don't know!

 

The point is that even being us that is making the decisions to pine for people who don't seem to really want us, if I am listening and enjoying entertainment that supports my current behaviour I am unlikely to even want to change.

[Titania22]

I found this, and it is relevent.

 

[TheyCallMeBruce]

So, in other words, I need to listen to more Huey Lewis and the News? Sold.

[NoMagicBullet]

Excellent thread! I've suffered from this, too, and it's good to know I'm not alone. I've always called it infatuation versus addiction, but it feels a lot more like the latter than the former. And the same elements occur:

• it's someone I don't know well (so my mind tends to fill in the blanks)
  
• seeing them irregularly or infrequently (so the possibility of seeing them drives me nuts)
  
• not being able to get to know them better (uninterested or unavailable)
  
• no definite closure, always a "what if" lingering in the mind
  
• these "crushes" would last for years!
  

There was little rhyme or reason as to when it hit me and who the man was. Most of the men I was attracted to were single, but not interested. A few were married, which caused me a lot of internal anguish. (I never acted on my feelings, I simply felt bad for having them.)

 

Sometimes it started from the first meeting, but the worst ones were men I had met earlier and found somewhat attractive, but dismissed a relationship as not going to happen for one reason or another, then later -- sometimes years later! -- the feelings just suddenly hit me, hard, out of the blue. In those cases, I can remember the exact moment that everything seemed to turn upside down.

 

The only things that seemed to work in getting over them were total NC and having one guy replaced by another infatuation. In the worst case, I moved over 1000 miles away in large part to get away from a man I couldn't be with, and it took me years (5+) to completely stop thinking about him. Now he only serves as the measure against which the severity of all my other infatuations are judged.

 

When I was looking for answers on why I kept going through these cycles of long-term infatuation, I ran across limerance as a possible definition for this experience. Never found any suggestions on what to do about it, though.

 

 

Oh, and I spend a fair portion of my day inventing conversations with her in my head! Almost my entire drive today was spent "talking" to her. So, apparently this has literally turned me into an insane person.

 

Yes it is so the same with me. Even knowing I need to stop thinking about the current guy, I find myself having imaginary conversations with him, and feeling quite happy and satisfied.

 

But the moment I have thoughts about the reality, negative thoughts, and thoughts of letting go, I feel really ill.

 

Same here. The fantasy conversations are a big part of it! I actively try to stop myself from having these, because it just seems to reinforce the feelings.

 

 

I have had another thought regarding all this.

 

Continuing with the idea, that these addictive love behaviours are a program, that I have occasionally run since i was a teenager.

 

I am considering why even after all these years, I would choose to run it, when it is obviously detrimental to myself, those around me, and never gets me the object of my desire anyway.

 

Interesting theory of the program; I'm still mulling that over. However, I disagree that it's a choice. I suppose the program could be flipped on by the subconscious brain for some reason, but I still wouldn't call that a choice.

 

I found this, and it is relevent.

 

 

Great video -- I would love to know more about this research.

 

And just then I had a thought. This last one started after my last relationship was over. I hadn't accepted they we wouldn't get back together, because I couldn't. I started this infatuation right at the time when I needed a way to let go of my last love. So it would make sense I would create my perfect man, because then my mind would be able to accept that my exboyfriend wasn't my true love. But I created him too perfect I guess, because I haven't managed to let him go, and the real life man, hasn't done anything that could blast the illusion out of the water.

 

Hmmm. So how do I let go of this perfect illusion?

 

One thing I try to do is remind myself of the negatives or flaws of the real life people. Some of the men I've been infatuated with would not have been good for me if I could have been with them, and from a rational perspective, they weren't worth the emotion I felt for them. Most were decent guys, but they had flaws, and they were never going to be the way I imagined them.

 

The other thing I've been trying the past few years, and seems to be working for me, is that I go with an illusion that I know is an illusion. Instead of thinking about a man I know in real life, I try to push myself to think about an imaginary man instead. Someone who doesn't exist in real life or who I could never meet in real life. Sometimes I've taken the fantasy version of a real life man and renamed him, making him into an imaginary boyfriend I know is not the real guy, and others are just flat-out fictional characters. They keep me from unrealistically fantasizing about real life men, and give me a little of that emotional "fix" I crave. I don't know if this would work for everyone -- may depend on imaginative capacity and how much someone can get into a total fantasy world. But I figure if the thing with a real man is just in my head, and it usually is, I might as well make it into what I want and need it to be with an imaginary man instead.

[Titania22]

 

Great video -- I would love to know more about this research.

 

I only found out about her, when someone mentioned her yesterday on an EternalSunshine thread. But I straight away googled her and found that video. It seemed to answer alot of my questions. If accurate, it released my from guilt or negative judgement of these feelings, whilst at the same time not trapping me in the hope that it means I could be together with the object of affection.

 

I also found it interesting that she said that the less hope you have of a happy ending, the stronger the feelings become. That has been my experience. It is really good to know I am not crazy.

 

One thing I try to do is remind myself of the negatives or flaws of the real life people. Some of the men I've been infatuated with would not have been good for me if I could have been with them, and from a rational perspective, they weren't worth the emotion I felt for them. Most were decent guys, but they had flaws, and they were never going to be the way I imagined them.

 

The other thing I've been trying the past few years, and seems to be working for me, is that I go with an illusion that I know is an illusion. Instead of thinking about a man I know in real life, I try to push myself to think about an imaginary man instead. Someone who doesn't exist in real life or who I could never meet in real life. Sometimes I've taken the fantasy version of a real life man and renamed him, making him into an imaginary boyfriend I know is not the real guy, and others are just flat-out fictional characters. They keep me from unrealistically fantasizing about real life men, and give me a little of that emotional "fix" I crave. I don't know if this would work for everyone -- may depend on imaginative capacity and how much someone can get into a total fantasy world. But I figure if the thing with a real man is just in my head, and it usually is, I might as well make it into what I want and need it to be with an imaginary man instead.

 

I agree. Generally when it comes to fantasy men, I have chosen characters from TV shows. It is fertile ground for imagination as long as the TV is still being made, frees me from the illusion the person actually exists (ie someone i could actually meet) and as all shows come to an end eventually it has an expiry date. But I have no experience substituting a fictional lover with an one that exists as a real live person.

[NoMagicBullet]

I agree. Generally when it comes to fantasy men, I have chosen characters from TV shows. It is fertile ground for imagination as long as the TV is still being made, frees me from the illusion the person actually exists (ie someone i could actually meet) and as all shows come to an end eventually it has an expiry date. But I have no experience substituting a fictional lover with an one that exists as a real live person.

 

Well, the imaginary boyfriend can't bring you flowers, that's for sure!

 

I've always been good at thinking up stories, and I've always found it easy to take TV & movie characters and think up entirely new stories for them. So even after the TV show or the movie is over, they still have ongoing lives in my head. A few of them can become subjects of romance. So yeah, that may not work for everyone.

 

A little celebrity worship from afar can also work, but I've found that like real life, it works better if you don't know much, if anything, about them. Obscure actors who play bit parts are good for that.

[Titania22]

Well, the imaginary boyfriend can't bring you flowers, that's for sure!

 

I've always been good at thinking up stories, and I've always found it easy to take TV & movie characters and think up entirely new stories for them. So even after the TV show or the movie is over, they still have ongoing lives in my head. A few of them can become subjects of romance. So yeah, that may not work for everyone.

 

A little celebrity worship from afar can also work, but I've found that like real life, it works better if you don't know much, if anything, about them. Obscure actors who play bit parts are good for that.

 

Yeah, my recent experience says if they exist it's still dangerous. Especially in the internet age, where so much can be googled. Out of the short list of guys I have experienced this addiction/in love thing for, the last one is actually in the entertainment industry, and it doesn't help me get a grip. It also means that at any time I can stumble across something online that wakes it up all over again. It doesn't help that over the next 5yrs he will probably go from "little known" to "incredibly famous", but when I first came across him 3yrs ago, he was actually very little known.

 

But perhaps this is different from a conscious decision. For me guys I have fantasised about, i would be like "he's hot" and then fantasize and it simulates some of the feelngs. The guys I have gotten addicted to, I never saw coming, and didn't even fantasize about before cupids arrow hit me.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I found this, and it is relevent.

 

 

 

This is a really outstanding video, and it actually made me feel a lot better. I'd been feeling like a real ******* lately, but apparently these feelings are pretty common. I especially liked what she said about a willingness to take risks for someone else.

[strlixx]

i have had this problem. i may be having it right now...its hard to look at it in an outside way. its sad. i need to remember...dat there are so many ppl in the world. u dont need an addiction. u need a friend and resoectt

[hellrazaa]

Yeah using fantasy means you guys are search for something to do.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I'm terrible at this. Or, rather, it seems that my brain is.

 

I've been doing my best to avoid initiating conversation. I don't text first. Yesterday, she sent me a message at about 4:30 asking "Are you alive?" Apparently she'd noticed that I hadn't contacted her.

 

Like a moron, instead of saying, "Yeah, I was just busy," I more or less told her the truth, that I was trying to text less because I thought it was getting excessive.

 

Same thing today. I try not to text her, but as soon as she initiates contact, I'm all over it. For whatever reason, when she texts me at 11:47 this morning to ask how my night was last night, my brain interprets that to mean something far more significant that what I know it actually means: she's just bored and making conversation with me. We have a brief back-and-forth about our respective evenings, and that's that.

 

Then, 6:46, she sends me "hello sir." Again, just making bored conversation. 8:16 "Whatcha doin?"

 

But each time, I drop whatever I'm doing and text her back and stare at the phone until I get a response. This despite the fact that the conversations never go anywhere.

 

I can't seem to stop obsessing over this girl like a lunatic, even though, objectively, I know she's not interested in me romantically.

 

What an idiot.