trippi1432 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Nick - Sorry to hear about the new issues with her job. It's unfortunate what companies do to their employees these days, the new motto seems to be "do more with less". I had a similar issue with my company last year as we downsized. I wound up doing tasks for my department as well as 3 other departments as the tasks got moved around due to less headcount. We all wish it was easy as saying "No", but when your boss decides to take the workload on and assign it to you, not much "choice". In my situation, I finally had a breakdown due to the job load, going through a divorce and issues with my son....I had to go on two month's leave of absence. They farmed my job out to five people to take on the tasks that I had been doing. I had a lot of discussions with our HR department as I originally was going to resign from my job due to the stress and lack of resources, HR asked me to reconsider and take the LOA. HR also took my Sr. Director aside and they looked at the workload of everyone in the department in which the decision was made to actually hire more resources. Our department had taken a 60% headcount reduction, and while the work was supposed to get light to accommodate that, that never happened...it actually increased. I went back to the company in a different position a couple of month's later and the work load is more manageable. I also now negotiate new tasks that get delegated to me if I feel they do not "fit" the job and management listens and pushes back tasks that try to get delegated to our department that do not fit instead of being so agreeable to push non-related tasks to their employees. Does your wife have an HR department that she can discuss work/life balance with? It may do her good to have a talk with someone and discuss the fact that the extra duties leaves her less time to work on her current job as well as puts her family at odds on balancing her personal life. I do feel that had I talked to our HR department ahead of time, they may have stepped in and evaluated the workload to fix the situation...or at least the concerns would have been documented. Perhaps it's time for her company to give her some resources to delegate some of workload off to especially if she is going to take on the task of a committee member, one would think that they could at least assign her a legal assistant or something. She could even negotiate that this would be good growth for her to have an assistant for management experience. Just some food for thought.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick, my thinking is this, you guys have kinda been locked into opposing corners, each of you kind of taking a my way or the highway stance. Why not look at the 3rd alternative? each of you freed up to work more more, delegating more mundane tasks to paid help? Parent/teacher conference? important.. mowing lawn? unimportant, dinner out as husband & wife? important, actually standing over a hot stove to cook dinner? unimportant. I seriously think a lot of your problems as a couple could be eased with some paid domestic help. We see some of this with our babysitter, who often goes beyond just watching the kids. And when parents come up, they help out as well. It does free us up to do other things. We're not in a position to hire regular help at the moment, but it's something I'd love to consider when we do have the money.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick - Sorry to hear about the new issues with her job. It's unfortunate what companies do to their employees these days, the new motto seems to be "do more with less". I had a similar issue with my company last year as we downsized. I wound up doing tasks for my department as well as 3 other departments as the tasks got moved around due to less headcount. We all wish it was easy as saying "No", but when your boss decides to take the workload on and assign it to you, not much "choice". In my situation, I finally had a breakdown due to the job load, going through a divorce and issues with my son....I had to go on two month's leave of absence. They farmed my job out to five people to take on the tasks that I had been doing. I had a lot of discussions with our HR department as I originally was going to resign from my job due to the stress and lack of resources, HR asked me to reconsider and take the LOA. HR also took my Sr. Director aside and they looked at the workload of everyone in the department in which the decision was made to actually hire more resources. Our department had taken a 60% headcount reduction, and while the work was supposed to get light to accommodate that, that never happened...it actually increased. I went back to the company in a different position a couple of month's later and the work load is more manageable. I also now negotiate new tasks that get delegated to me if I feel they do not "fit" the job and management listens and pushes back tasks that try to get delegated to our department that do not fit instead of being so agreeable to push non-related tasks to their employees. Does your wife have an HR department that she can discuss work/life balance with? It may do her good to have a talk with someone and discuss the fact that the extra duties leaves her less time to work on her current job as well as puts her family at odds on balancing her personal life. I do feel that had I talked to our HR department ahead of time, they may have stepped in and evaluated the workload to fix the situation...or at least the concerns would have been documented. Perhaps it's time for her company to give her some resources to delegate some of workload off to especially if she is going to take on the task of a committee member, one would think that they could at least assign her a legal assistant or something. She could even negotiate that this would be good growth for her to have an assistant for management experience. Just some food for thought. Sorry to hear what you went through, but happy to hear it seems to have turned out better. You're right that just about every company nowadays is doing more with less. I heard this statistic last year that productivity was up, and that this was supposed to signal an economic turnaround. All it signaled to me was that those who still had jobs were FORCED to be more productive. It's happened with my job and certainly with hers. I'd like to see if she & her boss can restructure her workload, and actually come up with a plan that works. It would be great for all the reasons you said if they could hire an assistant or junior associate. I doubt the company has the resources to do that, though. She does have a secretary, but her skills are limited. If they can't come up with a plan, and things are getting worse, then I will definitely suggest she go to HR. I appreciate all the suggestions.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 while i agree that many tasks can be hired out - the main deficit Nick has had an issue with is his wife's lack of concern and connection with him and the kids. hiring things out would probably help Nick more than his wife. hire these out... but you both still need to find time for a connection and intimacy - and also for time to allow your kids to understand you are there to be supportive of them as well. maybe one of the best things your wife could work on right away could be a boundary... mainly with work. if she expects to keep balance in her life while doing the work of three people - she is sadly mistaken. she needs to learn how to tell her work NO. NO i won't take on THAT much work. NO, that is an unreasonable amount of workload for one person. NO, i won't work past dinner time... i need time with my family. boundaries, a voice, and balance... Two great points here. One is that the hired help would help me more than "us". This is still something I'd love to consider, but I'm well aware that this is a solution more for the "domestic life" problem than for our marriage. It would give both of us room to be with the kids more & work more, but knowing her it would not free her up to spend more time with me. She DOES have to learn to say no. Your paragraph actually made me laugh, because I've been discussing this with her for 15 years or more, that one of her biggest problems at work is that she NEVER says no. And I THINK that her company knew that so well that they were sure they could assign her this committee leadership position pretty much without even asking her. And that's how it's turned out. She sets STRINGENT boundaries at home, and has almost NONE at work - and never has. I would more expect her to break DOWN or us to break UP before she is compelled to learn how to use that two letter word.
trippi1432 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Nick - it might be good to suggest to her to actually sit down and list all the tasks she takes on at work (everything...even the ones that are not everyday...including projects...etc)...then segregate them by essential and non-essential...which ones only she can do and ones that someone with the right skill-set can do for the things that are non-essential. This will help her in talking with her boss and honestly, a list like that with the fore-thought of achieving a work load balance is often appreciated by management as it takes the pressure off of them to actually "know" your job. Many employees complain that management puts too much on them, and they do as long as you allow it, but management does not really know what their employees do a lot of times...so by showing them on paper how much you really have on your plate and how much of your time it takes, shows initiative. It will also be good for her to have if she does have to go to HR and have that "talk". It will show that she did take initiative for work/load balance if her management pushes back and won't reduce her workload. Hopefully this is something she will consider, perhaps even the counselor can suggest it as well if the work/load balance and family/personal life balance comes up.
trippi1432 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 She DOES have to learn to say no. Your paragraph actually made me laugh, because I've been discussing this with her for 15 years or more, that one of her biggest problems at work is that she NEVER says no. And I THINK that her company knew that so well that they were sure they could assign her this committee leadership position pretty much without even asking her. And that's how it's turned out. She sets STRINGENT boundaries at home, and has almost NONE at work - and never has. I would more expect her to break DOWN or us to break UP before she is compelled to learn how to use that two letter word. Nick - That was pretty much my situation for 13 years with my company...I had that same problem and they knew it. This is why I am suggesting that she make this task and project list and take the initiative to show that to upper management and/or HR. She is getting ready to take on a lot more stress working on the marriage, the counseling...etc...she could get to breakdown and it will ultimately affect her job as she goes through changes. Doing this now before you guys get to the "hard stuff" in MC might be beneficial to her in the long run. That little two letter word "NO" does have to be learned...that was what I learned over that two month break and therapy.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick - it might be good to suggest to her to actually sit down and list all the tasks she takes on at work (everything...even the ones that are not everyday...including projects...etc)...then segregate them by essential and non-essential...which ones only she can do and ones that someone with the right skill-set can do for the things that are non-essential. This will help her in talking with her boss and honestly, a list like that with the fore-thought of achieving a work load balance is often appreciated by management as it takes the pressure off of them to actually "know" your job. Many employees complain that management puts too much on them, and they do as long as you allow it, but management does not really know what their employees do a lot of times...so by showing them on paper how much you really have on your plate and how much of your time it takes, shows initiative. It will also be good for her to have if she does have to go to HR and have that "talk". It will show that she did take initiative for work/load balance if her management pushes back and won't reduce her workload. Hopefully this is something she will consider, perhaps even the counselor can suggest it as well if the work/load balance and family/personal life balance comes up. This is also something we've discussed A LOT. I have told her often that no matter how positive and "supportive" her boss is, nothing will change until she goes to him and specifically points out what he can reassign/delegate/etc.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick - That was pretty much my situation for 13 years with my company...I had that same problem and they knew it. This is why I am suggesting that she make this task and project list and take the initiative to show that to upper management and/or HR. She is getting ready to take on a lot more stress working on the marriage, the counseling...etc...she could get to breakdown and it will ultimately affect her job as she goes through changes. Doing this now before you guys get to the "hard stuff" in MC might be beneficial to her in the long run. That little two letter word "NO" does have to be learned...that was what I learned over that two month break and therapy. It's HUGE that you learned that. I have seen zero movement in that direction from my wife since the beginning of her professional career. I do wish the NOs start coming before we get to the hard stuff, but my gut says it may take a breakdown for her to finally get there.
soserious1 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Nick, in order to set limits on your boss one needs to be in position to walk away from a job if the boss decides to push back. There is such a glut of freshly minted new lawyers bagging groceries because they can't get jobs that it's scary. You've stated that you guys can't afford to hire domestic help,I'm going to be blunt here, if a practicing lawyer and a professionally employed husband who also has his own start up company can't afford to hire a bit of help,then the family budget is in need of a serious overhaul.Working this hard for as many years as you two have been should be providing your family with some security and ease. Perhaps time to look at monthly expenses with an eye towards reallocating some funds to distressing your lives? Also position is everything, if your fiscal picture is this tight how much "pushing" can your wife realistically do at work, knowing that there are thousands of unemployed young lawyers out there who'd jump at the chance to have her work? Btw, I also feel there is nothing at all wrong with freeing up some of your time by hiring out more mundane tasks.You feeling less pressure on the domestic front might well make dealing with the rest of your marital issues easier. Edited June 25, 2011 by soserious1
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick, in order to set limits on your boss one needs to be in position to walk away from a job if the boss decides to push back. There is such a glut of freshly minted new lawyers bagging groceries because they can't get jobs that it's scary. You've stated that you guys can't afford to hire domestic help,I'm going to be blunt here, if a practicing lawyer and a professionally employed husband who also has his own start up company can't afford to hire a bit of help,then the family budget is in need of a serious overhaul.Working this hard for as many years as you two have been should be providing your family with some security and ease. Perhaps time to look at monthly expenses with an eye towards reallocating some funds to distressing your lives? Also position is everything, if your fiscal picture is this tight how much "pushing" can your wife realistically do at work, knowing that there are thousands of unemployed young lawyers out there who'd jump at the chance to have her work? Btw, I also feel there is nothing at all wrong with freeing up some of your time by hiring out more mundane tasks.You feeling less pressure on the domestic front might well make dealing with the rest of your marital issues easier. It's kind of offensive & elitist to say that just because we choose to use our excess funds for something other than a maid that we are mismanaging our finances. We find that there are several far more important things than that. And I'm sure you know that the cost of living in NYC is one of the highest in the country. So I'd rather not get into a money discussion. It's true that the current job market doesn't give employees much wiggle room or bargaining power. She's fortunate in that, as in trippi's case, it would take at least 2 or 3 people to replace her, which wouldn't be cost effective for the company. So she does have SOME sway, but more in the area of delegation or reassignment of cases. I don't think it would be wise for her career to say no to the committee. Just have to find another way.
2sunny Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 We had a fight two nights ago, when she came home to tell me it was a done deal and then asked to cancel our first therapy appointment. I stood my ground and to her credit she kept her word & showed up to do actual work with me today. It absolutely feels huge. And when we split up after the session, I made a point of thanking her for following through. this whole concept is seriously not sitting well with me - and seems "off" first - she knows the importance of the counseling appt - yet wants to cancel... then creates a fight - and you then feel "grateful" or "privilieged" that she's going to keep the appt after causing a fight - when she knew the appt was made and the M depends on the counseling (at this point) to grow and/or get better. i suppose she has trained you not to expect much from her - as she did expect you to understand when she wanted to put work ahead of her family/marriage. then - she goes - and YOU thank her? i don't understand you thanking her after SHE caused a fight over something she had given her word on... then wanted to back out. that is rewarding her bad behavior. it's like: thank you dear, for coming - as i fully understand you really wanted to make me an afterthought today - it's my honor to be in your presence. i don't "thank people" for doing what they say they will do - and then fight with me about keeping their word. it was "their word" they are attempting to betray with. IF their word is good for nothing - then there's no reason to bother. if it takes a ton of negative energy to get someone to be good for their word - then there is good reason to look at the core problem... she may be making agreements with her words she doesn't intend to keep. when someone gives me their word - i FULLY EXPECT them to DO exactly as they say - and this requires absolutely NO energy, at all! it looks like this: Nancy: hey, can you meet me at Starbucks at 10? Me: yes. in a world where someone doesn't keep their word it looks like this. Nancy: hey, can you meet me at Starbucks at 10? Me: yes. Nancy: hey, i know it' 9:50 and we are meeting at 10, but i need to run into the market really quick and then get gas and drop a present off to my friend. healthy Me says: we will do it another time. some people say: ok, i'll wait for you cuz you seem so busy. but the bottom line is - IF the agreement is kept (the words) then NO energy is needed or wasted trying to pretend the agreement was never made - or CHANGING the original agreement. she is wasting so much energy spinning things... it's exhausting. but i wouldn't "thank her" when she created negative energy over something she "said she would do" then "decided it might not be convenient". i suppose my specific words to her - in that situation would be - "i'm glad you made this work...it's good to get started with the help we need". sometimes the way you respond is rewarding her when she treats you like her second, third or fourth choice. =-( don't mean to slam you - just pointing out the way you respond that seems back wards to me. hugs.
soserious1 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) It's kind of offensive & elitist to say that just because we choose to use our excess funds for something other than a maid that we are mismanaging our finances. We find that there are several far more important things than that. And I'm sure you know that the cost of living in NYC is one of the highest in the country. So I'd rather not get into a money discussion. It's true that the current job market doesn't give employees much wiggle room or bargaining power. She's fortunate in that, as in trippi's case, it would take at least 2 or 3 people to replace her, which wouldn't be cost effective for the company. So she does have SOME sway, but more in the area of delegation or reassignment of cases. I don't think it would be wise for her career to say no to the committee. Just have to find another way. Nick, you & I have had several exchanges where you snap at me for being "offensive" when I offer up ideas or suggestions. Believe it or not, I am seriously actually trying to be of help to you here.If I wanted to be snapped at I'd call my ex-husband. I know from my own experiences that daily expenses seem to mushroom the busier I get, occasionally reworking my budget is instructive & useful to me, it has nothing to do with gross "mismanagement" and everything to do with making sure my short term spending is in line with my stated longer term goals. You want your wife to grow a set of balls and set limits on her boss regarding her workload? in order to do that you guys need to be in position for her to walk away from the job if her boss decides to push back, are you? can you afford for her to walk away from this job if her boss doesn't comply with your request that she work less? Can you two afford to make your monthly obligations for the 6 months to a year it might take for her to find another position? You obviously don't need to respond to these questions here but the answers to them will tell you just hard your wife can realistically afford to "push" for reduced workload at her job. When they need you more than you need them is the sweet spot to be in. Edited June 25, 2011 by soserious1
2sunny Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 just as soserious shows your W needs to set a boundary with work and stick with it - you need to DO that as well with your W. in the end: YOUR happiness is solely based upon what YOUR W is or is not doing. YOUR happiness (ultimately) should only be based upon what YOU are or aren't doing. i learned a few years back - people can die suddenly - and IF my happiness level is based solely upon THEM - I will never be happy! start living Nick! get busy making YOU happy - without her! she COULD be gone tomorrow! pretend like she is gone. YOU need to find what happy looks like... and it shouldn't need to be determined by OTHERS!
scarlett27 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 YOU have dedicated half ur life to someone that is now unwilling to comprimise on work situation - do u think she throws herself into work coz she may be unhappy ??? u need to talk to her and tell her u are not sure of the future with her at this point and the amount of hours , it sounds to me a bit like a marriage of convience now . the kids well im sorry surely they are at least teens now u cant stay with someone for the sake of the kids - my parents split when i was five and as much as i missed out at least i didnt have to watch two people who clearly were not happy together , best of luck
soserious1 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 I know that when I feel I am in a no win situation I often retreat into myself, silence seeming like the only safe option. Nick your wife is faced with the reality that she HAS to keep bringing home the bacon, regardless of whether she enjoys the job or not, she has to do whatever it takes to keep income flowing in OTOH she has a husband who's made it abundantly clear that her entire way of living is unacceptable to him, he feels neglected and abused. Nick, if I were your wife I'd probably be wishing I was dead right now, I'd be feeling damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'd also be more than sure that the couple's therapy focus would be on all the ways in which I was a ****ty wife and a terrible mother and about how the blame for my husband's infidelity was all on me. I think I'd be feeling like everybody was "pushing" me and that all I would be getting out of any of this is more pushing, more blame and even more work to do with zero gain for me personally aside from getting people to stop screaming in my ears for awhile.
2sunny Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 i have a different perspective... i work from energy flow - or resistance... when things are easy - it takes very little energy for things to happen - and happen in an easy, happy manner. when there is resistance - it takes SO MUCH energy to try and force someone else to DO IT my way... i see this as a lot of negative energy - she is doing one thing - it's not working for you - yet you keep trying to force her to want it YOUR way - and she keeps wanting it HER way. based on THAT alone - would be enough for me to call it a day. your expectations will get you tripped up every time. acceptance is key. you can force things to be a certain way all you want - but if it's not meant to be that way - you are fighting the current in a negative energy path... which takes so much time, effort and energy. good balance and positive energy don't ever feel that way.
soserious1 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) i have a different perspective... i work from energy flow - or resistance... when things are easy - it takes very little energy for things to happen - and happen in an easy, happy manner. when there is resistance - it takes SO MUCH energy to try and force someone else to DO IT my way... i see this as a lot of negative energy - she is doing one thing - it's not working for you - yet you keep trying to force her to want it YOUR way - and she keeps wanting it HER way. based on THAT alone - would be enough for me to call it a day. your expectations will get you tripped up every time. acceptance is key. you can force things to be a certain way all you want - but if it's not meant to be that way - you are fighting the current in a negative energy path... which takes so much time, effort and energy. good balance and positive energy don't ever feel that way. Personally I feel that Nick and his wife would be a LOT happier if they just called it quits, however they've decided to try to save the marriage via counseling and as such I think it is best to try to give advice that will be of the type that both of these people can win. I think it's very important to remember here that BOTH Nick and his wife sound like basically good people and tailor our advice and opinions accordingly. Nick's being a nice guy shouldn't automatically mean his wife is some sort of evil villain. Both of these good people are locked into their respective POV, perhaps the biggest help we can offer aside from just listening is to try to point out creative ways that Nick can get his needs met, why does it always have to be a win/lose solution? Edited June 25, 2011 by soserious1
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 this whole concept is seriously not sitting well with me - and seems "off" first - she knows the importance of the counseling appt - yet wants to cancel... then creates a fight - and you then feel "grateful" or "privilieged" that she's going to keep the appt after causing a fight - when she knew the appt was made and the M depends on the counseling (at this point) to grow and/or get better. i suppose she has trained you not to expect much from her - as she did expect you to understand when she wanted to put work ahead of her family/marriage. then - she goes - and YOU thank her? i don't understand you thanking her after SHE caused a fight over something she had given her word on... then wanted to back out. that is rewarding her bad behavior. it's like: thank you dear, for coming - as i fully understand you really wanted to make me an afterthought today - it's my honor to be in your presence. i don't "thank people" for doing what they say they will do - and then fight with me about keeping their word. it was "their word" they are attempting to betray with. IF their word is good for nothing - then there's no reason to bother. if it takes a ton of negative energy to get someone to be good for their word - then there is good reason to look at the core problem... she may be making agreements with her words she doesn't intend to keep. when someone gives me their word - i FULLY EXPECT them to DO exactly as they say - and this requires absolutely NO energy, at all! it looks like this: Nancy: hey, can you meet me at Starbucks at 10? Me: yes. in a world where someone doesn't keep their word it looks like this. Nancy: hey, can you meet me at Starbucks at 10? Me: yes. Nancy: hey, i know it' 9:50 and we are meeting at 10, but i need to run into the market really quick and then get gas and drop a present off to my friend. healthy Me says: we will do it another time. some people say: ok, i'll wait for you cuz you seem so busy. but the bottom line is - IF the agreement is kept (the words) then NO energy is needed or wasted trying to pretend the agreement was never made - or CHANGING the original agreement. she is wasting so much energy spinning things... it's exhausting. but i wouldn't "thank her" when she created negative energy over something she "said she would do" then "decided it might not be convenient". i suppose my specific words to her - in that situation would be - "i'm glad you made this work...it's good to get started with the help we need". sometimes the way you respond is rewarding her when she treats you like her second, third or fourth choice. =-( don't mean to slam you - just pointing out the way you respond that seems back wards to me. hugs. I see what you're saying, but I also know her well enough to know how hard this was to do. And the fact that she not only showed, but showed up early (a rarity by far) and was extremely open and participatory are things she deserves credit for. I'm not going to thank her every week, but this first time was crucial. Plus I'm confident enough in what we're doing & in what I need that I can give her this kindness without feeling like I'm giving in to anything.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Nick, you & I have had several exchanges where you snap at me for being "offensive" when I offer up ideas or suggestions. Believe it or not, I am seriously actually trying to be of help to you here.If I wanted to be snapped at I'd call my ex-husband. I know from my own experiences that daily expenses seem to mushroom the busier I get, occasionally reworking my budget is instructive & useful to me, it has nothing to do with gross "mismanagement" and everything to do with making sure my short term spending is in line with my stated longer term goals. You want your wife to grow a set of balls and set limits on her boss regarding her workload? in order to do that you guys need to be in position for her to walk away from the job if her boss decides to push back, are you? can you afford for her to walk away from this job if her boss doesn't comply with your request that she work less? Can you two afford to make your monthly obligations for the 6 months to a year it might take for her to find another position? You obviously don't need to respond to these questions here but the answers to them will tell you just hard your wife can realistically afford to "push" for reduced workload at her job. When they need you more than you need them is the sweet spot to be in. I apologize for that. I think there's a way you phrase or express things that must push buttons in me. Have no fear - I rework the budget often. Well first of all in this economy there's hardly anyone who can afford to walk away. Add to that three kids - high costs of school & babysitting, living expenses, etc., and the answer is no, we can't afford for either of us to lose our jobs. We could probably exist for about two months before having to give up the apartment. But that does not preclude her pushing. It just means she can only push so far. All I'd really want her to achieve are enough small changes that she can balance her life better. And since BOTH of her higher-ups (boss and boss's boss) have said the same thing to her, they should see it as a mark of good management that she finally does do this.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 just as soserious shows your W needs to set a boundary with work and stick with it - you need to DO that as well with your W. in the end: YOUR happiness is solely based upon what YOUR W is or is not doing. YOUR happiness (ultimately) should only be based upon what YOU are or aren't doing. i learned a few years back - people can die suddenly - and IF my happiness level is based solely upon THEM - I will never be happy! start living Nick! get busy making YOU happy - without her! she COULD be gone tomorrow! pretend like she is gone. YOU need to find what happy looks like... and it shouldn't need to be determined by OTHERS! So here's a very specific question. If a big part of my happiness is contingent upon me being 100% involved with my company, how do I reconcile that with my wife saying that will never happen again? I'm still doing vital work on many levels, but it's just not the same.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 YOU have dedicated half ur life to someone that is now unwilling to comprimise on work situation - do u think she throws herself into work coz she may be unhappy ??? u need to talk to her and tell her u are not sure of the future with her at this point and the amount of hours , it sounds to me a bit like a marriage of convience now . the kids well im sorry surely they are at least teens now u cant stay with someone for the sake of the kids - my parents split when i was five and as much as i missed out at least i didnt have to watch two people who clearly were not happy together , best of luck We have definitely gone over this together. And I've made it clear that PART of the success of our marriage is contingent upon her making work changes. I do think she's unhappy, and has been for years. This is something I've asked her to look at time and again, and that her old therapist even asked her to examine. She just doesn't want to go there. Maybe she will in marriage therapy. Our kids are 11, 7 & almost 3.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 I know that when I feel I am in a no win situation I often retreat into myself, silence seeming like the only safe option. Nick your wife is faced with the reality that she HAS to keep bringing home the bacon, regardless of whether she enjoys the job or not, she has to do whatever it takes to keep income flowing in OTOH she has a husband who's made it abundantly clear that her entire way of living is unacceptable to him, he feels neglected and abused. Nick, if I were your wife I'd probably be wishing I was dead right now, I'd be feeling damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'd also be more than sure that the couple's therapy focus would be on all the ways in which I was a ****ty wife and a terrible mother and about how the blame for my husband's infidelity was all on me. I think I'd be feeling like everybody was "pushing" me and that all I would be getting out of any of this is more pushing, more blame and even more work to do with zero gain for me personally aside from getting people to stop screaming in my ears for awhile. You two are alike in many ways - something I've noticed these weeks. And possibly one reason why you push my buttons . She has felt all those things, and has expressed them all to me. To separate them. WORK - Every single time a change was suggested to her that in most people's minds would be considered practical & beneficial, she would resist until someone at work told her to do it. My words & pleas & suggestions mean very little to her, or not enough for her to want to compromise. That kind of resistance is no excuse when faced with the prospect of losing your husband and neglecting your children. If she's strong enough to deal with work pressures & child rearing, she should be strong enough to make changes when necessary. THERAPY - She was VERY sure it would be the therapist & me ganging up on her. I assured her that I chose someone with a philosophy & approach that would make this very unlikely, and that my goal was to find a way to make the marriage work for BOTH of us, including any changes we BOTH need to make. After the first visit, she feels safer with the idea. The thing is, if you choose to live your life intimately with people (husband, children), you have to expect and be able to field a degree of pushing. You have to expect that their needs might conflict with yours. And you have to be ready to find the middle ground. She's done this well in many areas, just not so much with the marriage.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 i have a different perspective... i work from energy flow - or resistance... when things are easy - it takes very little energy for things to happen - and happen in an easy, happy manner. when there is resistance - it takes SO MUCH energy to try and force someone else to DO IT my way... i see this as a lot of negative energy - she is doing one thing - it's not working for you - yet you keep trying to force her to want it YOUR way - and she keeps wanting it HER way. based on THAT alone - would be enough for me to call it a day. your expectations will get you tripped up every time. acceptance is key. you can force things to be a certain way all you want - but if it's not meant to be that way - you are fighting the current in a negative energy path... which takes so much time, effort and energy. good balance and positive energy don't ever feel that way. That's wonderfully idealistic, but it completely skips the hands-in-the-dirt work that every relationship needs. There is push and pull - it's a natural part of living as interconnected humans. If two people can't find a way to accommodate both sets of needs, then they shouldn't be together. Our therapy is an effort to find that out. And during that process we are going to need to get our hands dirty. To skip straight to what you're talking about is a little too Deepak Chopra for me. That's extremely valuable as a goal, but it has to be integrated with the practical, day to day struggle & work.
Author NickFeek Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 Personally I feel that Nick and his wife would be a LOT happier if they just called it quits, however they've decided to try to save the marriage via counseling and as such I think it is best to try to give advice that will be of the type that both of these people can win. I think it's very important to remember here that BOTH Nick and his wife sound like basically good people and tailor our advice and opinions accordingly. Nick's being a nice guy shouldn't automatically mean his wife is some sort of evil villain. Both of these good people are locked into their respective POV, perhaps the biggest help we can offer aside from just listening is to try to point out creative ways that Nick can get his needs met, why does it always have to be a win/lose solution? Thank you. I agree that as individuals we might both be happier apart. But we have agreed, and come to separate conclusions as well, that we think it's worth it to try to work things out. I wouldn't do that if I didn't think she was a good person & someone I love & want to spend time with. And she wouldn't either.
Recommended Posts