25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[trippi1432]

I agree both about my wife's list and the kids. No predicting the outcome, but there's now no question in my mind that the best way for us to even have a HOPE of rebuilding something stronger & truer is for us to separate at the moment.

 

Good luck Nick...I truly do wish you that. Based on all that you have laid out here, what your needs are, I do hope that you find what you are looking for to be happy. I am pretty sure you will find that quickly.

 

On the other side of that, I do hope that your wife comes through this learning to find her true self...a place where she finally feels safe being who she really is at her core....a person she may never have felt safe to show you for who knows what reason.

 

There is a time when two people find that they really are on two separate paths in life, rather than try to control her and bend her to your will...you have chosen the higher road in my regard, as your best interests are the important aspect. She will find a way to compensate for her best interests..since, as it has been laid out here, she always has.

[NickFeek]

Good luck Nick...I truly do wish you that. Based on all that you have laid out here, what your needs are, I do hope that you find what you are looking for to be happy. I am pretty sure you will find that quickly.

 

On the other side of that, I do hope that your wife comes through this learning to find her true self...a place where she finally feels safe being who she really is at her core....a person she may never have felt safe to show you for who knows what reason.

 

There is a time when two people find that they really are on two separate paths in life, rather than try to control her and bend her to your will...you have chosen the higher road in my regard, as your best interests are the important aspect. She will find a way to compensate for her best interests..since, as it has been laid out here, she always has.

 

Thank you so much, trippi. I am crying a little bit. I hope so much I will find happiness - doesn't even have to be quickly!

 

And yes, I hope almost more than anything that my wife is finally compelled to break out of whatever prison she's been in.

 

The fact that you consider this the higher road is emboldening for me. It's SO HARD for me to think of it that way, because of what the VERY immediate future will probably be like. But I guess I need to look beyond that and see how much better things could be once I take this step.

 

I'll let everyone know how the weekend goes.

[2sunny]

2sunny, the advice I've given to Nick was from the POV of ultimately preventing this family from breaking down. Judging from comments from his wife that Nick has shared with us, I have no doubt that she also has a considerable list of resentments. My thinking here is that by filing for divorce Nick will force her into a marriage counselor's office where they can both start the process of being direct & honest with each other & hopefully find a way to rebuild a new marriage that works for them both.

 

IMHO it would be a sad outcome for the kids to end up in a divorced home with only 1 fully involved parent,it would be great if these two could find a new path & can keep their family together.

 

 

i feel the same SS -

 

i've tried to look at every angle to see how/if there has been a way to get his wife to budge... or Nick to adjust - nothing! keep trying to brainstorm to also see if something is overlooked. i just don't understand his wife AT ALL! most married folks - i would say look for the A - but since Nick swears it's not possible it seems she just intends to work and by that - NOT participate in the family realm. i don't know anyone who wants to be married - but feel alone and lonely.

 

it's sad really.

 

i can't see how Nick would be happy staying the way it's been... i tried turning over every rock to come up with alternative ideas... there seems no choices left at this point.

 

Nick - hugs to you and your kids... i tried! maybe she'll be shocked into changing. maybe she's just taken you for granted and figured she could ignore you and you'd still never leave. nothing about that is right for anyone.

[NickFeek]

i feel the same SS -

 

i've tried to look at every angle to see how/if there has been a way to get his wife to budge... or Nick to adjust - nothing! keep trying to brainstorm to also see if something is overlooked. i just don't understand his wife AT ALL! most married folks - i would say look for the A - but since Nick swears it's not possible it seems she just intends to work and by that - NOT participate in the family realm. i don't know anyone who wants to be married - but feel alone and lonely.

 

it's sad really.

 

i can't see how Nick would be happy staying the way it's been... i tried turning over every rock to come up with alternative ideas... there seems no choices left at this point.

 

Nick - hugs to you and your kids... i tried! maybe she'll be shocked into changing. maybe she's just taken you for granted and figured she could ignore you and you'd still never leave. nothing about that is right for anyone.

 

It says a lot about the goodness in this world that total strangers have been working so hard to help. I can't tell you how much all this has meant to me.

 

We went out to dinner and a park tonight. It was peaceful. The kids had a great time. The whole time I was thinking, this is going to end soon. I'm hurting even when I'm in the midst of happy times with my kids. So you're right - this is sad. I too have tried to look everywhere to find one way for me to stay in this situation and be happy and satisfied. I just don't think it's possible.

 

Thanks for the hugs and for trying so hard. No idea what comes next, but I know what I have to do. For everyone.

[tojaz]

Great question. My guess:

 

It all starts with the Catholic service - love, honor and cherish. (She's actually said that several times since my infidelity, usually prefaced with "What ever happened to...?") Support your spouse's career aspirations. Be a good partner/teammate in things like housework, childcare, decision making, finances, etc. Give your spouse space for other interests - friends, outings, TV etc. Keep the marriage within the marriage - i.e. don't reveal secrets to or solicit help from others. Be there when a spouse is sick or in real trouble. Above all, do your best to help your spouse become the best version of himself he can be.

 

Not sure if that's comprehensive, but it's all that comes to mind right now. I think it's more telling in what it does NOT include.

 

Hey Nick, sorry for the long pause,been a very Looooooong week.

 

Regarding the bolded, what do you feel is not included but should be?

 

Im looking here Nick, and seeing the difference between how she treats the different segments of her life (based on what you've shared and a bit of surmising) As always, if I am way off base please feel free to let me know.

 

So for the purposes here Im seperating her into 3 seperate segments of her life, Work, Mother, Wife , obviously not nearly as simple as all that, but can help to illustrate.

 

In her work, she is very devoted and rather accomplished. It is a difficult career in a very competitive town, that also carries with it a great amount of respect and prestige. She is confident, hard working and she welcomes the challenge.

 

As a mother, once again very devoted and takes great pride in what she does. She uses her creativity and personal touch to enrich the lives of your children.

 

As a wife, well I think you said it best. I think it's more telling in what it does NOT include. Per your description above, it sounds like she sees it very much as a list of duties and up to this point has treated it as such. Fold tab A into slot B and build the perfect spouse. Of course we all know it doesn't work that way.

 

I have more but wondering if I'm getting warm.

 

TOJAZ

[2sunny]

if the way Nick describes her is on target - then her being his wife seems to have been an oversight as part of the marriage.

 

most wives figure they participate on some level that keeps a strong connection with a husband. being proud of working so much, earning money and providing are one thing - but to allow all that to keep a wife completely removed from participating as a wife and mother on some level - isn't healthy for any marriage/family.

 

at some point - any spouse - wants and desires to FEEL connected: emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually. any church - especially Catholic churches - marry with reference to two people coming together, being JOINED by God - well, IF one person is always missing... then no trinity like "spirit" is possible... God also intended married folks to have sex - she's not thinking that is part of being a wife... in fact, it's like she's trying to avoid that part of a loving marriage. that sucks! plain and simple - most married men will NOT live an extended time without sex. they aren't wired that way, they want to connect by having sex. the marriage vows don't say work as much as you can to avoid being home with your family. actually Catholicism views money as one way people worship the wrong God if they pursue the money too heavily and don't keep God above the money. has she ever thought about that? i highly doubt God gifted children to her so she could ignore that she had them.

 

 

a dear friend of mine - she was in a situation much as yours, although married almost 40 years. hubby was a workaholic (late nights)...even worked on Christmas etc. he wanted her home, even though the kids were grown. they had MANY things and enough money. a few years ago she decided that the marriage was a sham - he was never present - always working. life had passed by and she had been "alone" the whole 40 years. first she moved out of the area she had lived in for 50 years. became active in her community. so she divorced him. they are still dear friends - but she described it as you do... it was very freeing for her. she said she "doesn't have to pretend that someone loves her and doesn't intend to spend time and energy with her anymore" she is no longer depressed - she describes it as "NO LONGER PRETENDING that i'm married and with someone". during the M she was depressed, lonely and waiting for him to love her enough to want to be with her. she felt like his work was his mistress. now, a few years have passed - she says they are both happier now - mainly because they know they "love" each other but are no longer pretending... pretending they were married took up so much energy, and created so much negative energy.

 

she's not lonely, depressed or anything but happy now. oddly enough - it was her daughter that encouraged her to get busy living and being happy.

 

 

 

kids don't always NEED their parents together... they just mainly want to see them happy. when they are happy - they share that positive energy with the kids.

 

IF two people aren't a good match and are unhappy - then there really is no point in staying together. kids FEEL energy much stronger than adults. they read and process energy more quickly- IF you separate - it will be interesting to see how they adjust after things settle into a new routine. consistency is key. at that point focus on them, they will need you. ask friends to help a bit... carpool etc.

 

kids want to feel safe...keeping that at the forefront will help them. when things get consistent and predictable for THEM - is when you can get a true reading on how they feel. i really think it's best if she moves instead of you.

 

i think that consistency and predictability is going to need to come mainly from you. get time with them for the maximum the judge will order for you = more is better - in this case.

Edited June 5, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

Hey Nick, sorry for the long pause,been a very Looooooong week.

 

Regarding the bolded, what do you feel is not included but should be?

 

Im looking here Nick, and seeing the difference between how she treats the different segments of her life (based on what you've shared and a bit of surmising) As always, if I am way off base please feel free to let me know.

 

So for the purposes here Im seperating her into 3 seperate segments of her life, Work, Mother, Wife , obviously not nearly as simple as all that, but can help to illustrate.

 

In her work, she is very devoted and rather accomplished. It is a difficult career in a very competitive town, that also carries with it a great amount of respect and prestige. She is confident, hard working and she welcomes the challenge.

 

As a mother, once again very devoted and takes great pride in what she does. She uses her creativity and personal touch to enrich the lives of your children.

 

As a wife, well I think you said it best. I think it's more telling in what it does NOT include. Per your description above, it sounds like she sees it very much as a list of duties and up to this point has treated it as such. Fold tab A into slot B and build the perfect spouse. Of course we all know it doesn't work that way.

 

I have more but wondering if I'm getting warm.

 

TOJAZ

 

I wouldn't say it's a list of duties to her. I just think she's always had an idea of what is important in a marriage, and either I was unable to convey that there are things OUTSIDE of her thinking that are important, or she was aware of these things and not willing to go there. Really it comes down to something I'm learning from the reading I'm doing, which is if you can only accept the parts of your spouse you're comfortable with, then you're building a relationship on a partial lie. And if I as that partially accepted spouse was willing to endure that for so many years, it was in part out of love & hope, in part out of low self worth, and in part out of codependency.

[NickFeek]

if the way Nick describes her is on target - then her being his wife seems to have been an oversight as part of the marriage.

 

most wives figure they participate on some level that keeps a strong connection with a husband. being proud of working so much, earning money and providing are one thing - but to allow all that to keep a wife completely removed from participating as a wife and mother on some level - isn't healthy for any marriage/family.

 

at some point - any spouse - wants and desires to FEEL connected: emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually. any church - especially Catholic churches - marry with reference to two people coming together, being JOINED by God - well, IF one person is always missing... then no trinity like "spirit" is possible... God also intended married folks to have sex - she's not thinking that is part of being a wife... in fact, it's like she's trying to avoid that part of a loving marriage. that sucks! plain and simple - most married men will NOT live an extended time without sex. they aren't wired that way, they want to connect by having sex. the marriage vows don't say work as much as you can to avoid being home with your family. actually Catholicism views money as one way people worship the wrong God if they pursue the money too heavily and don't keep God above the money. has she ever thought about that? i highly doubt God gifted children to her so she could ignore that she had them.

 

 

a dear friend of mine - she was in a situation much as yours, although married almost 40 years. hubby was a workaholic (late nights)...even worked on Christmas etc. he wanted her home, even though the kids were grown. they had MANY things and enough money. a few years ago she decided that the marriage was a sham - he was never present - always working. life had passed by and she had been "alone" the whole 40 years. first she moved out of the area she had lived in for 50 years. became active in her community. so she divorced him. they are still dear friends - but she described it as you do... it was very freeing for her. she said she "doesn't have to pretend that someone loves her and doesn't intend to spend time and energy with her anymore" she is no longer depressed - she describes it as "NO LONGER PRETENDING that i'm married and with someone". during the M she was depressed, lonely and waiting for him to love her enough to want to be with her. she felt like his work was his mistress. now, a few years have passed - she says they are both happier now - mainly because they know they "love" each other but are no longer pretending... pretending they were married took up so much energy, and created so much negative energy.

 

she's not lonely, depressed or anything but happy now. oddly enough - it was her daughter that encouraged her to get busy living and being happy.

 

 

 

kids don't always NEED their parents together... they just mainly want to see them happy. when they are happy - they share that positive energy with the kids.

 

IF two people aren't a good match and are unhappy - then there really is no point in staying together. kids FEEL energy much stronger than adults. they read and process energy more quickly- IF you separate - it will be interesting to see how they adjust after things settle into a new routine. consistency is key. at that point focus on them, they will need you. ask friends to help a bit... carpool etc.

 

kids want to feel safe...keeping that at the forefront will help them. when things get consistent and predictable for THEM - is when you can get a true reading on how they feel. i really think it's best if she moves instead of you.

 

i think that consistency and predictability is going to need to come mainly from you. get time with them for the maximum the judge will order for you = more is better - in this case.

 

That all makes a lot of sense.

 

I just told her that we're separating. It's bleak here right now and I really need help to be sure I'm doing the right thing. I SO want this not to be the right thing, but my gut is still telling me it is. She is in a really really bad state right now, and on the phone with her mother. My kids are all asleep, but my oldest (daughter) found out before she fell asleep. I have NO IDEA how to do any of this and I'm really scared.

 

We are considering the next four weeks as transition, while the kids are in school. During that period we will work out all the particulars in a way that will hopefully best suit the kids. But there's so much to consider I'm feeling sick about it.

 

After those four weeks, if nothing has changed, we will be officially no longer a couple. Where it goes from there is hard to say, and hard to predict.

 

I am so so scared.

[NickFeek]

She's crying so much. This is killing me. I'm trying hard to stick to my guns, but I'm so scared. And the kids ... just thinking about them is breaking my heart.

[2sunny]

please be strong Nick... she HAS choices, she acts like she doesn't. she CAN choose to change - let's see what she comes up with.

 

stick to your plan... it's the only way to get concrete evidence if she wants to change at all and start participating with the marriage and family by working less and getting involved more with your lives at home.

 

to cave now would not change one thing.

 

tell her to stop crying and start changing. she has choices! she acts like she hasn't had any choices along the way. what did she think? talk, talk, talk and NO action from her was going to be good enough? no way! no one should expect another person to live miserably on purpose... that is not loving behavior. go read more of your book- it seems to be helping you understand good balance and what it should look like.

[NickFeek]

please be strong Nick... she HAS choices, she acts like she doesn't. she CAN choose to change - let's see what she comes up with.

 

stick to your plan... it's the only way to get concrete evidence if she wants to change at all and start participating with the marriage and family by working less and getting involved more with your lives at home.

 

to cave now would not change one thing.

 

tell her to stop crying and start changing. she has choices! she acts like she hasn't had any choices along the way. what did she think? talk, talk, talk and NO action from her was going to be good enough? no way! no one should expect another person to live miserably on purpose... that is not loving behavior. go read more of your book- it seems to be helping you understand good balance and what it should look like.

 

I think that book is finally what pushed me to take the leap. But I'm still so conflicted. There's a big feeling of relief for sure, but it almost makes me want to say - there that's over, now let's go back to "real life". YET this was such a huge and difficult step that I DO NOT plan on wasting it by backtracking. If there's any hope she'll change, these next four weeks will tell the tale.

 

I should say that in the end, even though she was ready to make some concessions, my gut told me that I had to take this step. I laid out the things I need, some of which she was very willing to go for all of a sudden. But my gut STILL told me to make this move. I don't want to seem cruel, but I think she needs to know what me leaving her feels like before she understands what change really feels like. Plus if I'm being completely honest, I NEED time to myself to sort everything out, to recenter myself, etc.

[2sunny]

being centered is the bomb! i highly recommend it!

 

interesting that she immediately went crying to Mom... what is that supposed to fix? IF she would take total responsibility for the way she PARTICIPATES - she'd be telling her Mom how she's not home to love and care for her family, she works too much, she avoids emotional and physical attachment to her loved ones - and they are missing out on her BEING a Mom and wife.

 

did she tell her Mom that part - or did she blame it all on you?

[NickFeek]

being centered is the bomb! i highly recommend it!

 

interesting that she immediately went crying to Mom... what is that supposed to fix? IF she would take total responsibility for the way she PARTICIPATES - she'd be telling her Mom how she's not home to love and care for her family, she works too much, she avoids emotional and physical attachment to her loved ones - and they are missing out on her BEING a Mom and wife.

 

did she tell her Mom that part - or did she blame it all on you?

 

Before the full conversation was over, I told her I hoped she could see what it is I've been seeing all these years, and how lonely this life has made me. I also told her that as much as she says she wants to work on things, her work behavior & hours send the opposite message. I told her I was happy to hear she'd be willing to make some changes, but that I had no reason to believe they'd ever come to pass. It was NOT NEARLY as confrontational or cut & dry as I thought it would be.

 

In the end, she was very clear to tell me that I was making this decision, not her. That she was willing to stick it out & try, and that I'm the one bailing. She said that although she agrees we should not give any details to the kids, or talk down about each other to them, that she would make sure they know that I'm the one who decided to leave, not her.

 

I have no idea what she told her mom - also spoke to at least one sister. And I was happy she at least had someone to talk to.

[2sunny]

she's very sneaky- because her words still don't match her intent. she says you two won't talk bad about each other but YOU are gonna be the one to take all the blame? why? she works too damn much - so she takes HALF the blame - at least! but why is anyone talking BLAME now? who cares? why discuss blame? sheez!!!!! f that!

 

NickFeek;3438502Before the full conversation was over, I told her I hoped she could see what it is I've been seeing all these years, and how lonely this life has made me. I also told her that as much as she says she wants to work on things, her work behavior & hours send the opposite message. I told her I was happy to hear she'd be willing to make some changes, but that I had no reason to believe they'd ever come to pass. It was NOT NEARLY as confrontational or cut & dry as I thought it would be.

good work- good action. good work staying calm and sending a clear message abot what YOU require to be happy.

 

 

In the end, she was very clear to tell me that I was making this decision, not her.

 

she doesn't want to be responsible for how she participated. she wants to place blame on you. that's not loving - quite the opposite. she won't even accept her responsibility for HER part! sheez, she is one selfish gal!

 

That she was willing to stick it out & try, and that I'm the one bailing.

 

let's blame you Nick - then she's not at fault! :rolleyes:

 

 

She said that although she agrees we should not give any details to the kids, or talk down about each other to them, that she would make sure they know that I'm the one who decided to leave, not her.

 

more words not matching intended action = lies IF she intends to place blame then she's talking bad about you right? YES! so which is it? is she intending to betray you further or is she going to keep her mouth shut as far as blame? she can't have both. she contradicting again. tell her she shows evidence of abandonment when SHE had choices to change. would she like THAT to be known to her children too? the fact that she NEEDS to blame you is terribly concerning.

 

when i divorced - it was because my exH cheated. all kinds of people wanted info. because i chose not to talk trash about him - i responded to anyone by saying "it's a private matter"

 

 

 

I have no idea what she told her mom - also spoke to at least one sister. And I was happy she at least had someone to talk to.

 

well given what she said- expect her family to have info from her that places all the blame on you, seriously.

 

your wife has a very twisted idea of what loving behavior looks like... it's NOT loving... and she NEVER owns how SHE participates! she just keeps blaming everyone but herself.

 

I am responsible for the way I participate in EVERYTHING i DO. everything! that's the part she won't admit. there's nothing you can do...

 

i'd expect little change... she seems completely selfish and self serving.

 

you deserve so much better than that. life is just too damn short.

Edited June 5, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

I don't understand the blame thing either, nor how it's supposed to make our daughter feel better.*

 

It's not so black and white. She said there are things she does take responsibility for, and would be willing to talk about them. But we've been down this road so often that my gut was still telling me it would take more than our standard talking to really get her to move towards me.*

 

She's welcome to paint whatever picture she wants to her family and friends. I really don't care. As long as the kids learn no mire details and are spared our infighting, which for now she agrees with.*

 

Thank you. I hope in some way we BOTH find better, however that may be.*

[NickFeek]

I'm really having second thoughts. So much sadness to come, especially from the kids. I think I can hold out but I'm just so conflicted.

[tojaz]

I'm really having second thoughts. So much sadness to come, especially from the kids. I think I can hold out but I'm just so conflicted.

 

Your conflicted Nick because its a big mistake! Reading this last page actually made me a little ill!

 

Your trying to get closer to your wife by creating more distance? Why wouldn't she go to her Mom? You just told her you wanted out!

 

Unless you are really done with this marriage, and really don't love her, then you just made things much worse. :( All because you think you can force change, you can't and now why would she want to?

 

TOJAZ

[2sunny]

Because she ignores them and doesn't participate. In a M both people deserve to feel loved and he doesn't. She hasn't made an effort except to "talk" about it. It's not enough if there's no change. He's waited here- six weeks with no changes even knowing this is what he was considering...

[NickFeek]

There are compromises I just can no longer make. I've been unhappy for years. I still so desperately want to believe things can be fixed, but A. she also seems today like she's done with the marriage, and B. I envision ANY attempt we make from THIS particular point to be tainted with all our history and patterns, and that does not bode well for recovery.

[willowthewisp]

please be strong Nick... she HAS choices, she acts like she doesn't. she CAN choose to change - let's see what she comes up with.

 

stick to your plan... it's the only way to get concrete evidence if she wants to change at all and start participating with the marriage and family by working less and getting involved more with your lives at home.

 

to cave now would not change one thing.

 

tell her to stop crying and start changing. she has choices! she acts like she hasn't had any choices along the way. what did she think? talk, talk, talk and NO action from her was going to be good enough? no way! no one should expect another person to live miserably on purpose... that is not loving behavior. go read more of your book- it seems to be helping you understand good balance and what it should look like.[/QUOT

 

I totally disagree with this.

 

This women has a perspective too. This women isn't crying for no reason 2sunny. There are two people involved in this, not one. To say she went crying to her mom! Where is your compasion? There is another perspective here, HERS, which you do not know.

 

I have been reading this thread from the beginning but I stopped posting on it becasue to be honest Nick you don't really seem to here looking for help. People here, trippi, tojaz to name some have given you excellent advice to help repair your marriage and you constantly choose to ignore it.

 

Even now, when you say she is crying etc, you say YOU are scared, help ME, i don't want to back down etc. There are some people here who have done what you have done, who will gladly help you to justify to yourself and to do this.

 

Tip for you - which you can ignore if you want to - don't expect your life to be better after you have done this, the problem is not your wife, if it were you would not have been with her for 25 years. Unless you address the real problem here, you will REPEAT this in future relationships.

 

There, harsh, but said.

 

Doubt is present for a reason.

 

Blast away at me folks.

[2sunny]

and i completely disagree with you willow...

 

this woman has choices.

 

yet she's not taking any action - and expects her H - knowing full well he is lonely and wants her - yet she ignores him and the kids.

 

and she cries... she could be DOING something! anything other than what she has been doing.

 

i think her tears MAY be designed to manipulate... so she still doesn't have to change a thing.

 

she appears extremely self centered and self serving. my comment wasn't without merit.

 

stay strong Nick. you deserve a wife who wants to BE with you.

[tojaz]

and i completely disagree with you willow...

 

this woman has choices.

 

yet she's not taking any action - and expects her H - knowing full well he is lonely and wants her - yet she ignores him and the kids.

 

and she cries... she could be DOING something! anything other than what she has been doing.

 

i think her tears MAY be designed to manipulate... so she still doesn't have to change a thing.

 

she appears extremely self centered and self serving. my comment wasn't without merit.

 

stay strong Nick. you deserve a wife who wants to BE with you.

 

You know, I've spent a good bit of time here rereading a lot of the posts here. There have been a lot of wrongs committed by both parties. I only see one malicious, and knowingly damaging act. Infidelity! Thats not a dig Nick, theres plenty of people on this forum that will blast away at you for that, whats happened has happened and your working through it. I would keep that in mind though, infidelity damages a person very deeply and it makes little difference if you have moved past it, she may not be ready, and it makes little difference the reasons or the duration. The damage is done.

 

I dont see what Nicks wife has been doing as a malicious act. It is absolutely hurtful, and absolutely damaging. Thing is though, we don't really know why she feels the need to do that. (Sounds an awful lot like a dead horse i was beating awhile back).

 

That and only that is the reason things havent changed. The woman has choices and shes made them, yet an awful lot of time has been wasted trying to convince her that her choices are wrong, yet shes really the only one that can truly decide that. The healthy question is WHY SHES MADE THESE CHOICES! Lets face it Nick and be honest. Shes not staying up at Night working out ways to hurt you, plotting to screw you over or ways to lie to you. I think deep down you know that, yet thats how you've been treating her here.

 

I look and see a wife who is shying away from intimacy and seems to lack confidence in that area. I also see her taking refuge in a place where she does feel confident.... her career.

 

Now as per my usual disclaimer, feel free to tell me if i am way off base, and this is most definitely colored by my own experiences. Non the less, I think theres something to it. I warned you early on, about ultimatums and your chosen "tactics". Well, what would happen to someone in that situation, a fear of intimacy and a lack of confidence if they came home and where told they were coming up short? that they had let you down? That would erode confidence rather quickly rather then build it.

 

Its very easy to say change this, and she should know better when we don't share those same sensitivities. What may seem like a small and insignificant gesture for you may be a very hard thing for her.

 

So Like I said Nick, take what you can use and leave the rest, but if you see any truth in what i've put down here, then you have an opportunity to learn from my mistakes, these are lessons I learned about a year too late, and I'm divorced and hating every minute of it.

 

Nick. you deserve a wife who wants to BE with you.

I think she does, she just needs your help learning how.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Just thinking that some time in the future, LS really needs to get a "like" button for posts.

 

Don't think I can add much more to what Tojaz has just posted Nick...well stated.

[2sunny]

Nick. you deserve a wife who wants to BE with you.

 

 

I think she does, she just needs your help learning how.

 

and how is she supposed to learn - when she won't do anything different. won't go to counseling. and refuses to be home with them more than she is now, but keeps making empty promises?

 

how long does a person believe someone's word - when all actions show they don't mean what they have said?

 

she understand full well he feels unloved and lonely - and makes all promises to do better but never changes a thing.

 

how does that help the M?

 

 

keep in mind Nick has done years of counseling, his wife won't go.

[trippi1432]

2 Sunny - Nick himself has stated that his wife has gone to counseling in the past, at that time for a different issue, so I find it very judgmental on anyone's part to continue to bash his wife saying that she is being self-serving or selfish by not agreeing to jump in with both feet to work on her aversions to sex after finding out about her husband's infidelity.

 

Now I could pull out the judge card and say heck, if you are going to leave a woman who may have a medical condition that limits her performance in bed, then she is just as justified to leave you over a low libido or poor sexual performance...NO! Sex is only one element of a marriage...what is apparent here is that Nick places a higher value of it than his wife does....and (sorry Nick), there appears to be a little bit of "buyer's remorse" going on since Nick has now experienced a new sex partner.

 

Understandably, Nick has a conscience....which is a different spin than many of us see with those who cheat. However, 2 Sunny, I do see your side having divorced a man who threw himself into his career and can sympathize with how lonely that made you...to have him also cheat on you while not being a husband to you, I can understand how that slightly skews the agreement on the word on judging.

 

Actually, who is say that the wife's perspective here since the infidelity is that it's not worth going to counseling to fix...even you divorced a man for his infidelity...as did I. Some marriages can survive it with a lot of compassion and patience....many others can't.