LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 No where in the bible do I read that non Christians must be slain for their non belief. Have you read the Qur'an? If so, you'd realize that nowhere in there does it say that Muslims should kill Christians. Please get a clue, before you make an ass of yourself. Oops... Too late for you, unfortunately, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I go to a Southern Baptist Church and I am disappointed by a lot of things with them. They speak poorly of other branches of Christianity... namely Catholics or the more "works based" Christians. They even talk bad about other Southern Baptist Churches! When I mentioned that I thought all Christians were going to heaven I got some pretty evil looks. They are convinced that their interpretation of the Bible is right and others are wrong, or taken "out of context". It makes me sad. I would be considered a very liberal Christian. I also agree that Muslims should be free to worship in this country. Yes, if there were Christians in Muslim countries they would be persecuted and probably killed. But isn't that what is supposed to set Christianity apart, isn't that what is supposed to set the USA apart? Tolerance and Diversity? Most religions don't accept diversity- currently, or historically- geography has rarely mattered. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Islam in general (not just some sects) does the same. It would not be true to itself if it didn't. That's like saying "My way is the right way, but those other guys are kind of right too..." No one does that. Get real. I do that all the time particularly with Judaism and Islam (I'm Christian but very partial to Semitic cultures). But that's probably because I'm weird. Edit: Perfect example here. Some idiot pastor in the south burns the Quran. A mob in Afghanistan responds by KILLING a group of people they don't even know in their rage. That we can lay squarely at the feet of Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Christians aren't running around all over the world using C4 as necklaces. Christians don't fly planes into buildings in Arab countries. Christians weren't running the Ottoman or the Arab empires either, if you need to inject past history into your argument for fluff. Well, some Christians have and are. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was one of the more violent militant groups dedicated to the destruction of Israel throughout the 1960 and '70s. They still exist today but are not nearly as influential as they once were. It was founded by Palestinian Christian George Habash. Granted their ideology is communist/leftist not theological but the fact that their founder and many of the senior leaders were Christian should not be discounted. Nor should the fact that Saddam Hussein's right hand man Tariq Aziz was a Chaldean Christian (and a fairly ruthless guy to boot, on the plus side he had a cool mustache). Also there were a fair amount of Christian scholars in Muslim universities during the Islamic Golden Age. One of these was Al-Kindi who as a member of Caliph Ma'mun's Beit al Hikma ("house of wisdom") wrote a Christian Apologetic work, The Apology of Al-Kindi (which can be found on Amazon). Fact is the persecution of Christians in the Arab and Muslim world is a fairly recent and inconsistent phenomenon: off and on since the 1350s and fairly consistent since the 1920s. It's not as if persecutions of Christians began as soon as Muhammad began his prophetic career in 610 A.D. Islam is based on aggressive expansionism. INFIDELS are to be converted or killed. No where in the bible do I read that non Christians must be slain for their non belief. Yes and no. On the one hand territories were easier to hold onto if they were majority Muslim and there was an increased Arabization campaign as the Arab Caliphate expanded which also coincided with Islamization efforts as well. But, on the other hand, the Umayyad Caliphate and the early Abbasid Caliphs found it economically profitable to encourage religious minorities not to convert. This was because the tax non-Muslims paid (the jizya) was twice the rate of the zakat (tax on Muslims). Non-Muslims simply had value as cash cows. What has been found is that a great number of people converted to Islam not because of official state persecution or pressure (although those factors probably existed as well, after all we are talking about a time before civil and human rights) but rather because they calculated that it would advantageous if they wanted to advance their socio-political stature. A word on the word "infidel": English interpretations of the Qur'an (all translations are interpretations) or of Islamic philosophy in general often misuse the term. There are several words in Arabic to refer to non-believers. Masihi and Nasrani both mean Christians, Yahudi means Jewish, Ahl al-Kitab means any monotheistic pre-Islamic religion, Kafir means idolater, and Mushrikoon means someone who has committed a grave sin (polytheism, etc.). Traditionally when talking about people they have to slay almost always the Qur'an is referring to "Kafirs", the particular Kafirs were the ones from Mecca who were fighting Muhammad and his early Muslim community in Medina. The simple understanding of "Kafir=all non-Muslims" is not correct. Link to post Share on other sites
KR10N Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Christians are intolerant of just Muslims? I thought they were intolerant of everyone but other "Christians". Link to post Share on other sites
KR10N Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I don't understand why any of the major religions fight anyway. Most major religions are very similar: Most believe in one God Most believe in doing good things in this life to advance towards some other dimension or life. Most believe in the idea of good family and friend and preforming kind deeds. Most believe that certain things are wrong rape, incest and murder !! I just don't get why people can't just accept each others differences and learn from them. THIS!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Fugu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I would like to clear something up that personally really bothers me. I can't speak for all Christians, but I can say that I am not intolerant of people of other religions or of people who say they are Christians. I am whoever not open to things that directly conflict with what I believe to be true as a believer in the Word of God. I don't believe in homosexuality, yet there is a gay couple(they are so cute together:love:) who I have been friends with for more than 15 years. They know my views and I theirs. We have agreed to see the people behind the labels. I love those two people and they have treated me with love and respect. I have friend who is Muslim. She is one of the most beautiful loving women I know. She and I disagree on many things, but we are there through thick and thin for each other. I wouldn't want it any other way. We are all human and my God will judge me on how I treat other humans. Even those who are human facsimiles, would be treated the way He instructs. Good thing He is in control or I would say lost cause, turn my back and never take a backwards look. And in my view, you are what a Christian should be. I wish everyone had this attitude. When Christians behave in such a manner, I find little to object to. Link to post Share on other sites
627 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 There are Arabic Christians however who call God "Allah", cause Allah is Arabic for God, right? the above is correct. all arabic christians call God allah. Have you read the Qur'an? If so, you'd realize that nowhere in there does it say that Muslims should kill Christians. have you read the quraan? I tried, and I will explain what I mean by tried. I am an arab, I downloaded an original copy of the quraan( the way it was written without translation) wanting to see what it says, you'd think I'd have no problem understanding it but frankly I'd have had better luck with chinese. the quraan is written in a really old/poetic/full of metaphores and contradiction language... I barely understood anything, which is why it was left for imams and people of religion to interpret it. some imams say it does not call for the death of christians and atheists, while others disagree. who are you going to believe? and if you read an english translation, you are most likely reading an interpretation of it that was written in english, because metaphores and poetice language cannot be translated, very little can be understood and agreed upon as it is written Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I tend to go with the bottom line of any given situation. Concerning the Muslim issue, I'm still learning on that one. I understand that the bottom line to this religion is for Muslims to do everything they can to convert non believers to Muslim (be nice, loving, whatever), then if there is no conversion, the person is considered to be an infidel and at that point must be destroyed. It is said that there are "extremists" and "moderates". At some point, based on the belief system, the "extremists" will expect the "moderates" to follow the entire teaching, which includes the extermination of all that do not convert. I take issue with this. I have been watching what is going on in the Middle East quite closely recently...wow, that is Bible prophecy taking place before my very eyes, opening the door to prophecy that has not come to pass yet. Jesus teaches to love period, and His demonstration was the cross...He also teaches to be wise, to have understanding, to use discernment and among much more teaches not to be a doormat, to not be carried away with every doctrine...to test the spirits. We are supposed to check everything out, and take mans word for nothing. Personally, I don't care what faith or culture a person is, and all men/women are my "neighbors" IMO...my bottom line is if it doesn't line up with Gods word, I am commanded to take issue with it and take it from there as to what action He wants me to take, if any at all. Link to post Share on other sites
627 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 how does jesus teach people not to be a doormat? when he allegedly willingly let the romans crucify him, and taught his followers to turn the other cheek, not to go after winnings and personnal gain and stuff like that Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I think this is an interesting point...sorry for the repetition, as I stated something similar in another thread, although all of the tensions in the Middle East are because of sibbling rivalry. I believe the Middle East to be the center point due it having the longest past. I would love to go to those areas, although am reluctant due to the great tensions. People in other countries just don't understand how hard it is for people there at times. It all started back in the day when Sarah started tripping because she hadn't had a kid yet. So she tells Abraham to get together with her servant Haggar... Haggar then has Ishmael...Sarah gets jealous because SHE stepped out of what God told her to do (which was to be patient, as He would give her a kid)...so the loving God we have KEEPS HIS WORD (wish I could keep my word perfectly) and gives Sarah Isaac. There is a whole lot more to it, although bottom line is Ishmael is the father of the Arab nation and Isaac is the father of the Jewish nation. Thus began the tension. The major lesson for me...I need to trust God more. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 how does jesus teach people not to be a doormat? when he allegedly willingly let the romans crucify him, and taught his followers to turn the other cheek, not to go after winnings and personnal gain and stuff like that I'll get a better answer when I have more time to study, as this is an area that gets taken out of context quite frequently...although right off the top of my head...the cross had to take place in order for there to be a perfect sacrifice eliminating the sins of past, present and future. It was the Fathers will for Jesus to go to the cross. Jesus turning the tables in the temple is about the best representation of the doormat issue. I think the greatest misconception concerning Christianity is that they are supposed to be passive. Jesus was not passive at all, in fact the cross was the most aggressive act of all...it eliminated sin. Jesus was constantly rebuking the religious leaders of the day and putting them in their place...this is what caused the hatred and fear of Him. I wrote this fast so I hope it makes sence.... Link to post Share on other sites
627 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 that's the old testament, so it didn't really answer my question. and non muslims in the middle east do not all have it bad, it varies from country to country. iraq before the war, syria, and lebanon respect well the rights of non muslims. the iranian law respects christians and give them their own right of worship, the problem is in society, accidents occur. in saudi arabia both the law and the society stands against non muslims, islam is the law there, you might be executed for chewing gum in the ramadan fast I am a lebanese atheist and it is not a secret, I can't claim I was ever misstreated for that, although the laws are not too just but that's a different story. there are dictatorships that preserve the rights of minorities, that is particularly true in syria with al assad's regime, probably because the dictator's religion is a minority itself(minorities band together) religious minorities particuarly non muslims fear the fall of that dictatorship and its replacement by a sunni rule Link to post Share on other sites
Queen Zenobia Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 that's the old testament, so it didn't really answer my question. and non muslims in the middle east do not all have it bad, it varies from country to country. iraq before the war, syria, and lebanon respect well the rights of non muslims. the iranian law respects christians and give them their own right of worship, the problem is in society, accidents occur. in saudi arabia both the law and the society stands against non muslims, islam is the law there, you might be executed for chewing gum in the ramadan fast I am a lebanese atheist and it is not a secret, I can't claim I was ever misstreated for that, although the laws are not too just but that's a different story. there are dictatorships that preserve the rights of minorities, that is particularly true in syria with al assad's regime, probably because the dictator's religion is a minority itself(minorities band together) religious minorities particuarly non muslims fear the fall of that dictatorship and its replacement by a sunni rule My father's side of the family lives in Syria. They not only fear some kind of religious government coming to power but also the general chaos that usually accompanies a revolution. When chaos happens minorities are almost always harmed. Link to post Share on other sites
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