Posting with Empathy

[BB07]

What are you posts meant to be or for?

 

...somehow I think you will come up with something funny...

 

 

I'd really like for WIY to answer that one.

[WorldIsYours]

I asked first...I take it you are too chicken to respond? (see? I knew it would be something that would make me laugh :lmao:)

 

I gotta admit, this made me laugh, too, but it's also funny because this question is rhetorically irrelevant.

 

Meeeow....so catty..here I thought you were a guy......

 

Aww so sorry you're wrong.

[WorldIsYours]

I'd really like for WIY to answer that one.

 

I'd really like for you to answer it too.

[BB07]

I'd really like for you to answer it too.

 

 

I think I have several threads and several posts explaining how and why I got to this place.

 

Where have you been............under a rock?

 

So.........your turn to answer.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Yesterday's paper had an interesting article on empathy. Posters in this forum on both "sides" accuse each other routinely of lacking empathy. As the author says, APs are accused by some posters here of lacking empathy for the BS, while they in turn accuse those same posters of themselves lacking empathy in how those posters respond to posts on this board.

 

One paragraph in particular struck me as being of particular relevance in this forum:

 

 

 

Rather than pointing fingers at other posters, it might behove everyone to read that carefully and consider how it might apply to them - either in their behaviour on this board, or elsewhere. While there are a couple of posters here who spring to mind as the incarnation of empathy and compassion, I would suspect that even those members would have the humility to pause and consider their own behaviour anew.

 

And for those who are interested, there is even an empathy test...

 

 

This assumes that anyone is here on Loveshack to win friends and long-term acquaintances.

 

Loveshack is more like a never-ending stream of Sudoku puzzles from which you can take as many as will fill the time you have available.

 

You are doing a giant disservice to others if they cannot expect you to tell it like it truly IS, anonymously, and when 'safe' from all of your friends and family.

 

So why not show these people at least that much regard??

[WorldIsYours]

I think I have several threads and several posts explaining how and why I got to this place.

 

All of your posts explains it.

 

Where have you been............under a rock?

 

That's better than being with someone who will risk my life with some loser.

 

So.........your turn to answer.

 

I'm sorry, is it my turn?

[Silly_Girl]

This assumes that anyone is here on Loveshack to win friends and long-term acquaintances.

 

Loveshack is more like a never-ending stream of Sudoku puzzles from which you can take as many as will fill the time you have available.

 

You are doing a giant disservice to others if they cannot expect you to tell it like it truly IS, anonymously, and when 'safe' from all of your friends and family.

 

So why not show these people at least that much regard??

 

That 'regard' need not be rude, or dismissive, to the OP.

 

Why would I even consider listening to someone who says 'I can't identify with you in any way, don't understand howTF you ended up where you are, and actually think you are a) lying and b) deluded. BUT... listen to me and heed my comments'.

 

Pretty pointless posting under those conditions. People expend energy here, and many do so with immaculate intentions and with kindness. Their views are often more respected, and considered, as a result. I don't understand what's in it for the Dexter-clones, unless it's a form of therapy....

[Silly_Girl]

I ask this with total respect and no judgment but was it empathy or guilt?

 

Guilt crept in sometimes. But I thought long and hard, and it was mostly empathy.

 

My nature is such that I would feel guilt by default, and then work through the situation more deeply. That's what happened to me.

 

It is so hard, I'm sure you're aware, to summarise things in this environment. But I ended up with my mother, sister and two best friends telling me I had to stop giving as much thought to his wife. Live my life for me, and make my own judgement calls. To leave her responsible for her life, him for his, and me for mine.

[dreamingoftigers]

Guilt crept in sometimes. But I thought long and hard, and it was mostly empathy.

 

My nature is such that I would feel guilt by default, and then work through the situation more deeply. That's what happened to me.

 

It is so hard, I'm sure you're aware, to summarise things in this environment. But I ended up with my mother, sister and two best friends telling me I had to stop giving as much thought to his wife. Live my life for me, and make my own judgement calls. To leave her responsible for her life, him for his, and me for mine.

 

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Woggle]

That 'regard' need not be rude, or dismissive, to the OP.

 

Why would I even consider listening to someone who says 'I can't identify with you in any way, don't understand howTF you ended up where you are, and actually think you are a) lying and b) deluded. BUT... listen to me and heed my comments'.

 

Pretty pointless posting under those conditions. People expend energy here, and many do so with immaculate intentions and with kindness. Their views are often more respected, and considered, as a result. I don't understand what's in it for the Dexter-clones, unless it's a form of therapy....

 

Sometimes telling a person they effed up and here is how they get out of it is the best thing. If a person knows they dug their own hole it is easier for them to find a way out of it. I don't even try to argue that much with people who continue to do wrong and seem to have no desire whatsoever to change it. I only encourage their victims to get out from under their thumb and live a happy life. Where is the empathy for the innocent people hurt by their actions?

[WorldIsYours]

That 'regard' need not be rude, or dismissive, to the OP.

 

No one's being rude because one sees the OP's real intentions for the creation of this thread.

 

Why would I even consider listening to someone who says 'I can't identify with you in any way, don't understand howTF you ended up where you are, and actually think you are a) lying and b) deluded. BUT... listen to me and heed my comments'.

 

You refuse to listen to their positive, explanatory suggestions because you know what they're expressing is valuable, and shatters your selfish need for baseless validation regarding the destructive situation you are in. In other words, it's because you know their words are true.

 

Pretty pointless posting under those conditions.

 

You were never obligated to post, and there is no "condition" that says so.

 

People expend energy here, and many do so with immaculate intentions and with kindness.

 

The members of this forum expand negative energy here, and many do so with the negative intentions of "ruffling feathers" of the betrayed, and collaborating with people of their own callous caliber. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these OM/OW actually met IRL to engage in sexual acts with each other and talk about them, and how affairs and open marriage/relationships will be the new trend for the New World.

 

Their views are often more respected, and considered, as a result. I don't understand what's in it for the Dexter-clones, unless it's a form of therapy....

 

Their views are highly disregarded degrading, and only respected by those who are the same as them, hence your reference to "clones."

[WorldIsYours]

Sometimes telling a person they effed up and here is how they get out of it is the best thing. If a person knows they dug their own hole it is easier for them to find a way out of it. I don't even try to argue that much with people who continue to do wrong and seem to have no desire whatsoever to change it. I only encourage their victims to get out from under their thumb and live a happy life.

 

Agreed.

 

Where is the empathy for the innocent people hurt by their actions?

 

Sadly, there is no empathy with these types of people. Empathy doesn't even begin to fathom in their minds.

[Silly_Girl]

No one's being rude because one sees the OP's real intentions for the creation of this thread.

 

Not this thread. Any thread.

 

What are the real intentions please?

 

You refuse to listen to their positive, explanatory suggestions because you know what they're expressing is valuable, and shatters your selfish need for baseless validation regarding the destructive situation you are in. In other words, it's because you know their words are true.

 

Nice try. I have seen posters like Seren, Silk, Owl, and many others have a valuable and engaging exchange, and they have been patient with those who don't share the same views, and as a result both parties have benefitted.

 

But there are many drive-bys who are more interested in random blurting. I think you know the types I am referring to...

 

You were never obligated to post, and there is no "condition" that says so.

 

I said 'under those conditions'. On a support and discussion forum but just bludgeoning the thread with one's one projections, is what I was referring to.

 

The members of this forum expand negative energy here, and many do so with the negative intentions of "ruffling feathers" of the betrayed, and collaborating with people of their own callous caliber. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these OM/OW actually met IRL to engage in sexual acts with each other and talk about them, and how affairs and open marriage/relationships will be the new trend for the New World.

 

Can't comment on whether that's right because a) I've never heard of such a thing, and b) if I did it wouldn't interest me.

 

Care to share what leads you to such thoughts?

 

Their views are highly disregarded degrading, and only respected by those who are the same as them, hence your reference to "clones."

 

Sorry, I didn't understand that last para, but if you wanted to clarify I'd be grateful.

[Silly_Girl]

Sometimes telling a person they effed up and here is how they get out of it is the best thing. If a person knows they dug their own hole it is easier for them to find a way out of it. I don't even try to argue that much with people who continue to do wrong and seem to have no desire whatsoever to change it. I only encourage their victims to get out from under their thumb and live a happy life. Where is the empathy for the innocent people hurt by their actions?

 

There is nothing I have said which opposes this.

[WorldIsYours]

Not this thread. Any thread.

 

What are the real intentions please?

 

You know the real intentions.

 

Nice try. I have seen posters like Seren, Silk, Owl, and many others have a valuable and engaging exchange, and they have been patient with those who don't share the same views, and as a result both parties have benefitted.

 

And how many of them are still married to their WS? Almost all of them right? That explains why they are so "nice" to the folks on this forum.

 

But there are many drive-bys who are more interested in random blurting. I think you know the types I am referring to...

 

I'm afraid I lost you on this comment.

 

I said 'under those conditions'. On a support and discussion forum but just bludgeoning the thread with one's one projections, is what I was referring to.

 

The only one's who bludgeoning the thread with one's projections are not the betrayed.

 

Can't comment on whether that's right because a) I've never heard of such a thing, and b) if I did it wouldn't interest me.

 

You've never heard of such a thing? Okay.

 

Care to share what leads you to such thoughts?

 

Of course.

 

Sorry, I didn't understand that last para, but if you wanted to clarify I'd be grateful.

 

Ah ma'am, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[WorldIsYours]

There is nothing I have said which opposes this.

 

Then why the sudden need to claim you have empathy for your MM's wife, whose husband you're sleeping with? That word is being carelessly tossed around as if that's supposed to rationalize infidelity.

[Silly_Girl]

You know the real intentions.

 

 

 

And how many of them are still married to their WS? Almost all of them right? That explains why they are so "nice" to the folks on this forum.

 

 

 

I'm afraid I lost you on this comment.

 

 

 

The only one's who bludgeoning the thread with one's projections are not the betrayed.

 

 

 

You've never heard of such a thing? Okay.

 

 

 

Of course.

 

 

 

Ah ma'am, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Hokey coke. You're not capable of engaging, have no means to expand on your... 'interesting' claims and are frightened of others finding the holes in your posts. I'll just head for the Ignore, for the first time since I've been there. Am quite sad about that!

[WorldIsYours]

Hokey coke. You're not capable of engaging, have no means to expand on your... 'interesting' claims and are frightened of others finding the holes in your posts.

 

The same can be said for your self-centered behavior.

 

I'll just head for the Ignore, for the first time since I've been there. Am quite sad about that!

 

Fine by me. Just shows how you're incapable of engaging in discussion, which is the purpose of LS.

[tami-chan]

Fine by me. Just shows how you're incapable of engaging in discussion, which is the purpose of LS.

 

:eek:...WIY, whatever happened to you must have been devastating and sorry that you are still really experiencing whatever negative emotions you have about it ...you are unraveling...it might help to get professional help, sweetie.

[WorldIsYours]

:eek:...WIY, whatever happened to you must have been devastating and sorry that you are still really experiencing whatever negative emotions you have about it ...you are unraveling...it might help to get professional help, sweetie.

 

I'm finding the Bitter Argument really old and useless against the cold hard truth. And I'm good by the way Tami, since it's just itching on the back of your throat to know how I'm doing.

[Silly_Girl]

I do have a hard time resolving a plea for empathy from those whose own behavior is so very self-entitled and self-centered.

 

Where was the plea?

Who are you referring to?

What is the behaviour you consider such?

 

It is a bit nervy to expect it when their whole situation is based on having none themselves. I mean what do the words "cheater" and "betrayed" mean to you? But then "nervy" is kind of just a starting point on that. Nah, not with it, sorry.

 

What is YOUR definition of empathy? Are you familiar with the term Emotional Intelligence?

[Silly_Girl]

Really I don't think there should even be a board for "support" of cheaters. It legitimizes some really nasty, wrong behavior that people have no right to engage in. Why not a board to support wife beaters or a board to support thieves then? I find it all distasteful, honestly.

 

So, you're leaving then?

[Silly_Girl]

I am familiar with the term keep your damn hands of other people's spouses. That's really all you need to know on that.

 

Why are you on this board, SE?

[WorldIsYours]

I think that you are the one who needs to explain your presence certain places, not me.

 

Now you're seeing where I'm coming from.

[Silly_Girl]

It's one thing to play these kind of mind games with your affair partner; or when posting here; but with your own son??? You set up a completely unrealistic straw man situation (virtually zero burglars nowadays do it to feed their tiny children, and you know that), to prove what? That your level of ethical development is superior to that of a 14 year old child? Guess what, it backfired. You're just trying to rationalize/justify bad (in your example, actually criminal) behavior. That's "thinkin' like a cheater," silly girl. But man....doing it with your own son. Incredible.

 

 

 

 

Why wouldn't he? A typical 14 year old can understand that someone who feels they desperately need money might take desperate measures. There are bad guys in comic books, right?

 

What he grasps, even as a 14 year old, and yet you fail to, as a adult, is that a perception of a supposedly desperate need to commit bad acts does not render those bad acts acceptable. They are still bad acts, no matter what the wrong-doer's rationalization for them. All you are really saying is that you can construct a hypothetical scenario in which "the ends justifies the means." (A true life or death situation, perhaps, but your example was not a true life or death situation.) Maybe. But participating in an extramarital affair, either as the MP or the OP, certainly isn't one of them.

 

 

THAT'S empathy, or pretty close to it. At least, "understading." Right there.

 

 

 

 

THAT'S knowing the difference between "right" and "wrong." Obviously the boy learned it from somewhere, thankfully.

 

Letting the bad guy keep the fruits of his criminality is NOT "empathy." It's mind boggling that you would try to imply that "empathy" is the same thing as "acquiescing in wrongful conduct." Just more evidence showing you have no real grasp of what "empathy" means. A person either gets it, or they don't. Cheaters, by and large, just don't seem to "get it."

 

 

 

 

 

You don't know what "compassion" means. It does NOT mean you let a criminal retain the fruits of their bad behavior. I notice you left out the part where you asked your son, "OK, obviously the bad guy has to return what he stole from you. Now, son, do you think society should still try to help his children? How could we go about doing that?" If your son responded "Nah let 'em starve" then and only then might you have a basis to accuse your son of a lack of empathy or compassion. But I take it, you didn't get that far, because your intention was not to have a genuine discussion of a moral dilemma with your son.

 

The fact that your son would like his property returned does NOT mean he lacks compassion for the robber. The straw man you fabricated was that the children of the robber need food to eat. Yet nothing you asked your son even addressed that specific issue: feeding those kids.

 

Everything you asked was part of a manipulated conversation to try to "prove" that 1) it's OK for a bad person to do something very bad if s/hecan fabricate a guilt-inducing rationalization for it ("robber's children starving; married man so unhappy, his wife is a shrew"); 2) if the victim doesn't acquiesce to being victimized, the victim lacks compassion because the wrong doer's rationalization must be accepted at face value, and there are no possible "less bad" alternative paths the wrong doer could have taken; 3) 14 year olds since they are young are ignorant of compassion, and therefore, the reaction of my 14 year old to such a hypothetical by definition reflects a lack of compassion; 4) anyone who reacts to a similar situation the same way my 14 year old reacted (i.e. not acquiescing to the crime) also lacks compassion.

 

 

 

 

He knows, and apparently accepts, the difference between "right" and "wrong." You, apparently, do not. He is more ethically and morally mature and developed than you are (based on the example you just gave).

 

Obviously you dispense with those pesky "rules" that are an inconvenience to you, because you don't "get it." That's why you can find a justification for being in an EMA and why you have little trouble justifying robbery and even being critical of your own son even though his responses to your questions were perfectly reasonable ones.

 

I take it you have never told your son you are the other person in an EMA? You are having sex with a married man? In effect, you are the "robber" with respect to your MM''s betrayed spouse ("robbing" their relationship)? The "robber" is obviously you, and you didn't just steel an Ipad, did you? Was your 14 year old son starving, therefore, you needed to have an affair with a married man in order to feed him?

 

Why didn't you simply, and honestly, tell your son the truth about your affair, explained whatever your reasons are for having it, and then asked him whether he had compassion for you vs. the betrayed spouse? That would be an interesting conversation actually. Would you accuse your son of a lack of compassion if he criticized you and felt compassion for the betrayed spouse of your affair?

 

 

 

 

Neither of you have empathy for his wife. If either of you had empathy for the wife, you wouldn't be having an affair with each other.

 

 

 

 

That's not "empathy." That's inner conflict on your part, because you know that what you're doing is "wrong," but you are too selfish to do what's "right"--stay out of the affair.

 

 

 

 

That's not true, because by definition, you are in a dysfunctional relationship right now--an extra marital affair with a married person. What you are doing is not "new and good," it's "bad."

 

Cheaters turn "good" into "bad" and "bad" into "good." It's OK to be a robber, it's OK to be a cheater, "right" and "wrong" are just pesky "rules" that we can disregard if they are inconvenient.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I meant by "walking the walk." Your behavior displays a total lack of empathy towards the betrayed spouse, and your conversation with your son demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of not only empathy, but of the difference between right and wrong, which your son grasps, but you do not.

 

 

 

 

 

Bad is good. Wrong is right. Dysfunctional is healthy. The worst thing that can happen in a relationship (affair of your partner) is the "BEST" thing.

 

 

 

 

 

So your letter of reference as to your empathy, is from your affair partner?

 

Are you kidding? No, of course not. You actually expect people to buy this? The endorsement of the guy you are cheating with is something that is worth a plugged nickel?

 

 

 

 

 

You not only tried them on for size, you ripped them off of her feet, without her consent. Maybe you should go out and get your own pair of shoes. Did that ever occur to you? Wait no--you identify with the Ipad robber. Obtaining something by honest means--shoes, an Ipad, an available boyfriend--just doesn't have any thrill to it, does it?

 

 

 

 

Wow, the problem with your "character reference" is he is decidedly lacking in character himself. You really don't get it, do you? You really can't distinguish right from wrong.

 

 

 

 

No one's lavishing blanket insults against OW here on the board. You have nothing to "resent." Or, stop cheating, and you won't be an OW anymore. Then you don't have to worry about whatever it is that you perceive to be "insults against OW."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having sexual or intense emotional relations with someone else's spouse is what is "nasty." But you don't think it is, you think it's wonderful. "Bad" is "good." "Wrong" is "right."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice, manipulative turn around. But you only talked about your son in terms of his imagined lack of compassion for a criminal. Now somehow you're implying that between the two of you, you have a higher moral or ethical position than he does. Even though you're the cheater who doesn't seem to know right from wrong, and he's an innocent 14 year old who seemingly does.

 

Oh dear, here we go, nice to see you again

 

It's not mind games AT ALL. My son studies religion at school, and is on the debating team for his year. This stuff is good for him. He brings up a lot more in that vein than I ever could think up. I am interested as to why so many people are preaching about definitions they don't understand, and was interested as to whether my 14 yr old son was more evolved than some posters.

 

It wasn't rationalising. Why would you say that? If I was rationalising I'd surely say the burglar was right? And justify bad behaviour?

 

What DOES compassion mean, please? Enlighten me. You're quick to rubbish my views, but not so quick to share... And what does empathy mean?

 

What did he, at 14 yrs old, miss out on then?

 

If you weren;t there, how ON EARTH do you know it was a manipulated conversation? Are you in my dining room???

 

How was I critical of him?

 

I certainly have not spoken to my son about the state of my bf's relationship when we met. It is none of his business. I also didn't talk to him about my previous bf's previous relationships. Not sure why you would expect that.

 

I have never once suggested my bf had empathy for his wife. Another twist on your part.

 

I feel sad for you, that you have such feeling about new relationships being tainted. Doesn't leave much hope for you finding happiness in the future, does it?

 

Why are you so threatened by the fact I am proud of my relationship?