What_Next Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 WorldIsYours, I think you are off base here. I really don't see anything that indicates a third party. Lions89, it seems to me that you have cleared stated your case, you have also put a lot of thought and effort into putting things back on track. I really do not believe this is a case of your husband being in the dark because you are asking him to read your mind either. I tend to agree with Tojaz that on the surface I am not one to put a lot of stock in seperations to save a marriage, but in this case it might serve the purpose. Now the road to recovery of your marriage is not going to be an easy one, nor should it be one sided. Your husband needs to make a monumental effort, as do you. Do what you must, but for heavens sake the second a third party comes into the picture (on either side) RUN!
WorldIsYours Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 Really? Care to explain? Grass is Greener syndrome.
WorldIsYours Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 WorldIsYours, I think you are off base here. I really don't see anything that indicates a third party. I didn't say anything about a third party, so you're off base. Lions in everything you post you're looking at all of his flaws and not at any of yours. As if he's the only one with the problem, no offense.
Author Lions89 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Posted March 11, 2011 Yes, I know what it means. I was hoping for an explanation for why you say that. And I did in fact say that he accepts my flaws, so...
tojaz Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 Someone has the GIG syndrome. Oh really????? You mean shes not looking to worsen her situation! Shocker!! Every divorce happens because they think the grass is greener, I don't know anybody that would leave anything unless they thought it would better their situation. To be honest, sometimes the grass IS greener! Were not in a position to say, Lions has to decide that for herself, all the rest of us can do is help her explore that as best we can having lived through it and having helped others live through it from both sides of the fence. The leaver is not always wrong and the left behind is not always right, its hard to keep that in perspective when you have been on one side or the other. The story just needs to unfold. Lions, I want to reply to your other reply but haven't found thechance to give it the time it deserves. In the mean time, the best way to use LS is to take what you can use and leave the rest. TOJAZ
hopesndreams Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 If all he wants out of life is the TV and remote, he won't even notice you're gone. Let's see, there is no abuse of any kind and you are bored. Oh yes, you will regret the move out. GIGS.
bc83 Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 Lions89 - here are two book suggestions - they've been helpful in my relationship at times: Controlled Separation - formalizes and structures a separation to increase the chance you'll make the best decisions moving forward. This book may also be called Should I stay or Should I go (or that may be yet another book, not sure) Taking Space - lots of food for thought while you are separated Can't recall the author names, but just google them - I got them both from amazon. FWIW, I'm back in the same place as before when my husband and I did a controlled separation in 2009. Will try another beginning in two weeks, for a minimum of 6 months. Only one child at home this time, but still, it's an upheaval for everyone.
willowthewisp Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 Many years ago I was visiting with my mom's best friend. I had just divorced my first wife and she was asking how I was, what had happened, etc. So I told her. Her response is something I'll never forget. She explained that many times through the course of their (very long) marriage, she had been so mad at him she wanted to hit him over the head. She went on to say he was often a stubborn, dim-witted stick in the mud and no one she had ever known had made her so angry. But...he was hers. Literally, a part of her. As mad as she got, or as bad as things were (and trust me, they did endure a lot...especially pertaining to their kids) she dismissed thoughts of leaving him and stuck it out. Just last year, this woman died of complications resulting from dementia. And this man...clueless as he was, turned out to be the only thing that stood between her and a life strapped to a hospital bed, waiting to die. He cared for her, he looked after her. He cooked and cleaned where before, he had never even boiled water. This went on for over three years. At her funeral, I told him how much of an inspiration he was. He looked at me with tear-filled eyes and said "She was my girl." So...do what you have to do. But, in my opinion people sometimes forget that life is an endurance; not a sprint. Let only what is truly right influence you. Nothing else. That's how I felt about my ex, shame he didn't feel the same way because I think that is rare nowdays and I think he threw away something special...me. (sorry to threadjack)
willowthewisp Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 Lions89 - here are two book suggestions - they've been helpful in my relationship at times: Controlled Separation - formalizes and structures a separation to increase the chance you'll make the best decisions moving forward. This book may also be called Should I stay or Should I go (or that may be yet another book, not sure) Taking Space - lots of food for thought while you are separated Can't recall the author names, but just google them - I got them both from amazon. FWIW, I'm back in the same place as before when my husband and I did a controlled separation in 2009. Will try another beginning in two weeks, for a minimum of 6 months. Only one child at home this time, but still, it's an upheaval for everyone. I've seen people leave their spouses after reading this book only to turn up here about 2 or 3 years later regreting the decision many many times. Just thought I would mention it.
bc83 Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 I've seen people leave their spouses after reading this book only to turn up here about 2 or 3 years later regreting the decision many many times. Just thought I would mention it. Wow! I am surprised by that since it seems, to me, to have a pretty positive outlook on being able to work out issues. But then again, here I am, two years after using it (we separated for 3 months in 2009, then reunited), I'm back to square one but just with different issues. Can you elaborate on what you know about those folks? I'd love to know more. Maybe we should start a new thread about that book?
WorldIsYours Posted March 11, 2011 Posted March 11, 2011 And I did in fact say that he accepts my flaws, so... So....why can't you accept his? I'm sure there are many things he doesn't like about you, but is he running off talking about how he needs some thrill and he's leaving you for it? GIG syndrome.
WorldIsYours Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Oh really????? You mean shes not looking to worsen her situation! Shocker!! Every divorce happens because they think the grass is greener, I don't know anybody that would leave anything unless they thought it would better their situation. Some people divorce to be alone, not necessarily to find a better person. To be honest, sometimes the grass IS greener! Were not in a position to say, Lions has to decide that for herself, all the rest of us can do is help her explore that as best we can having lived through it and having helped others live through it from both sides of the fence. In some cases yes there is better out there. But I mean really? Leaving because she feels he's boring? Because he microwaves food a lot? Sounds like a cop out. GIGS. She wants more excitement, then she needs to tell him and let him know what she wants. Thinking he can read her mind is immature. The leaver is not always wrong and the left behind is not always right, its hard to keep that in perspective when you have been on one side or the other. It's only one side or the other. No neutral. But then again you'd understand now where I'm coming from. The story just needs to unfold. From her own perspective. In the mean time, the best way to use LS is to take what you can use and leave the rest. I know this is supposed to be some little indirect attack at me because you don't agree with my view, which is really immature but I find this statement interesting nonetheless. What's the point of asking for opinions on one's situation if you won't listen to all of the advice given?
Author Lions89 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Posted March 12, 2011 Wow, that's a lot of projecting! Where did I ever say I was bored or that it's a flaw to microwave food? The microwave piece was simply addressing a comment about his need to cook for himself if I'm gone. Thanks to everyone else. I'm taking it all in and will definitely check out those books. I want to be as informed as I can be so no matter what decision is made, I will have arrived there with good reason and hopefully have no regrets.
Author Lions89 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Posted March 12, 2011 And sorry, I meant to post more but am posting from my phone at the moment and it's too difficult to try to go back and forth. I'll try later when I'm home.
trippi1432 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 The fact of the matter Lions is that you worry about the fact of how insignificant you feel in this marriage because you think that his remote...the chair..and how you take care of him matters. This separation is not about just finding yourself..but him finding himself..and appreciating what you both bring to your marriage. I say this...because you will find those things you took for granted...and he will find those as well..once you are both separated. I'm sure you do know what that means right? It means that you will have to do IT YOURSELF!!! You do KNOW this right...it's not calling him in the middle of the night when you need him..because HE is not there anymore. HE doesn't have to be there, you HAVE to be for YOU now..you get that right? You will no longer have any RIGHTS to him and he no OBLIGATION to you....you get that....right???? Because what I am getting is an opposite here...He will no longer have any RIGHTS to you and YOU no obligation to him...hmm, is that what you are really looking for?Sorry, this is what I ask my mother every time she complains about the man who loves her more than she loves herself. Think about that..it's not just you..it's about both of you. Sometimes the pettiness of what we "hate" about the ones we love is exactly what we will miss....when we are alone. Shame, no one thinks about that first.
trippi1432 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Wow! I am surprised by that since it seems, to me, to have a pretty positive outlook on being able to work out issues. But then again, here I am, two years after using it (we separated for 3 months in 2009, then reunited), I'm back to square one but just with different issues. Can you elaborate on what you know about those folks? I'd love to know more. Maybe we should start a new thread about that book? It wasn't that book..it was 10 Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up their lives..by Laura Schlessinger. It actually is a book of an interspective look on how we (women) are accountable for what we bring into our lives....only some women read it and only see the selfish side of themselves...losing the intended message. It is a book on down playing the domineering man...and picking a good man. It all comes down to interpretation...you can read it your way...and someone else will read it theirs.
Steadfast Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Oh really????? You mean shes not looking to worsen her situation! Shocker!! Every divorce happens because they think the grass is greener, I don't know anybody that would leave anything unless they thought it would better their situation. To be honest, sometimes the grass IS greener! Were not in a position to say, Lions has to decide that for herself, all the rest of us can do is help her explore that as best we can having lived through it and having helped others live through it from both sides of the fence. The leaver is not always wrong and the left behind is not always right, its hard to keep that in perspective when you have been on one side or the other. The story just needs to unfold Everyone is entitled to their own opinion Tojaz, but this response is just a bit too wide open for me to get behind. I agree with parts, but... I think your viewpoint would absolutely apply to dating. I mean...isn't that what it's for? Correctly applied, the cycle of dating and courtship should lead to two people and a commitment that lasts. And that, naturally, is my point. Isn't that what a commitment is? A promise or vow against that very thing? If not, then a person's word means nothing. In marriage, you're promising to be there, not bolt if a better (real or otherwise) offer comes along. Love is wrong (and isn't love) if someone suffers because of it. That's my take anyway. Seems to me these things should be worked out before the promises start getting tossed around?
Author Lions89 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Posted March 12, 2011 Just one quick note, as it's late and I really should be in bed right now. Anyone who uses Dr. Laura to guide their ways needs to find another guide. The rest, I'll read tomorrow when I have more energy and time to devote to reading and responding.
trippi1432 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Just one quick note, as it's late and I really should be in bed right now. Anyone who uses Dr. Laura to guide their ways needs to find another guide. The rest, I'll read tomorrow when I have more energy and time to devote to reading and responding. Agree and no not endorsing it either. I take it like every book I read, as well as advice I get here and in life.....some of it applies and some doesn't. It really comes down to you and what you take from it. I don't think GIG's is one of the reasons you want to separate...everyone gets to a point, even in the happiest of marriages, where they feel as if they have lost something. That feeling is within themselves...and it will most likely feel that way whether you stay or go it on your own. It's not your husband's responsibility to fix it for you...it's something you have to do for yourself. Perhaps leaving is not the answer, but changing the dynamic of the marriage is...sounds like you have tried to explore that. Edited March 12, 2011 by trippi1432
nobmagnet Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 hi, not been on for a while but read your journey with interest and symapthy. All responceses bar a few weird ones have made me think too. talk to you man. (he is your man still) Be completely honest and take some time away to get your head together, he will need it too even though he doesnt realise maybe:o. Dont just run away without explanation on the day and assume he knows how hard it is for you. That would show no respect for the time you had together. if its over then in time it will prove it is, I admire your work so far you both have made a massive effort but to still be at the same place after so much time makes me question your therapy or therapist. Move out is a good thing but make it clear it isnt abandonment? Unless it is. The pain of someone leaving is immence taken in anger or understanding, without a good conversation one or both lose all hope through anger that isnt necessary. love to you both nobby xx
worldgonewrong Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 ...everyone gets to a point, even in the happiest of marriages, where they feel as if they have lost something. That feeling is within themselves...and it will most likely feel that way whether you stay or go it on your own. It's not your husband's responsibility to fix it for you...it's something you have to do for yourself. Perhaps leaving is not the answer, but changing the dynamic of the marriage is...sounds like you have tried to explore that. This is a very, very prescient observation, and I'm bumping it because it can apply to A LOT of separated couples.
Author Lions89 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Posted March 14, 2011 Nobby, trust me, through this all, we are still good at communicating with each other (actually, better than we used to be - that is one thing we've gotten out of therapy!). He knows exactly how I feel and what I expect to get out of this separation. At our MC on Saturday, our therapist did also say that he needs to do similar thinking/analysis about what he has, what he wants, what he's willing to accept, and what he's not. It was a good session.
SoMovinOn Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Every divorce happens because they think the grass is greener, I don't know anybody that would leave anything unless they thought it would better their situation. Sometimes you want out of the marriage just because you want out of the marriage. Perhaps you have no feeling there is something better beyond that - simply you'd prefer to be alone than to be with the wrong person.
tojaz Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Some people divorce to be alone, not necessarily to find a better person. Yep never said anything about a third party or another love interest, just a better situation. In some cases yes there is better out there. But I mean really? Leaving because she feels he's boring? Because he microwaves food a lot? Sounds like a cop out. GIGS. She wants more excitement, then she needs to tell him and let him know what she wants. Thinking he can read her mind is immature. Ours is not to judge. Her reasons are her own, we can comment on them, offer advice and our own opinions. She has every right to divorce on any reasoning she so chooses. If she doesn't like his pic on american idol and wants to divorce him because of it, we cannot stop her. I actually think that Lions posts have been quite well thought out and sense a great deal of stress in her as the thread has progressed. She has stated that they have been working out their issues in several types of counseling for years, I would imagine some of her desires would have come up! It's only one side or the other. No neutral. But then again you'd understand now where I'm coming from. How many of my posts have you read??? Which side of that line was I on in my own divorce? I can think of nothing more neutral then an anonymous forum. I have no interest in weather or not a person I never, nor probably will ever meet remains married or leaves another person I do not know. I write my replies to the person who posted. Side note on neutrality, I was a left behind spouse. From her own perspective. Mr. Lions does not appear to be with us today, so I do not have access to his perspective. I know this is supposed to be some little indirect attack at me because you don't agree with my view, which is really immature but I find this statement interesting nonetheless. I'm not in the attacking business, I find it a waste of time to roam about and accuse people with marital trouble of immaturity and possessing some sort of syndrome to blame for their unhappiness in their marriage. What i wrote there has been repeated many times on this forum long before you joined up and will post it again long after you bore and move on. Every divorce happens because they think the grass is greener, I don't know anybody that would leave anything unless they thought it would better their situation. To be honest, sometimes the grass IS greener! Although it would appear that I did agree with your view, just chose to do so in a less then accusatory tone. Choosing to allow the OP to tell the story rather then allow you to assign it to her. What's the point of asking for opinions on one's situation if you won't listen to all of the advice given? She listened, and even replied. She has just chosen not to agree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion Tojaz, but this response is just a bit too wide open for me to get behind. I agree with parts, but... I think your viewpoint would absolutely apply to dating. I mean...isn't that what it's for? Correctly applied, the cycle of dating and courtship should lead to two people and a commitment that lasts. And that, naturally, is my point. Isn't that what a commitment is? A promise or vow against that very thing? If not, then a person's word means nothing. In marriage, you're promising to be there, not bolt if a better (real or otherwise) offer comes along. Love is wrong (and isn't love) if someone suffers because of it. That's my take anyway. Seems to me these things should be worked out before the promises start getting tossed around? In a perfect world, absolutely, but rarely is our world perfect! Unfortunately the time of life long commitments being the norm is slipping away and there is very little to be gained in questioning each others value of commitment on a divorce forum. It applies to dating, which is a courtship while one decides if they would like to make a commitment, So what is seperation? A period of time when one decides if they will continue a commitment. Sometimes you want out of the marriage just because you want out of the marriage. Perhaps you have no feeling there is something better beyond that - simply you'd prefer to be alone than to be with the wrong person. Wouldn't you call not being with the wrong person bettering your situation??? Phew I need to check back more, seems I'm not as popular as i used to be. TOJAZ
tojaz Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Lions, in reading your posts I see your frustration. This is my take and you can tell me what you think. You both are at a point where you want different things out of life. You have described yourself as being ambitious, you have undertaken many projects as of late, take great pride in your home, cooking etc. Not all people are like that though, we all take pride in different things and express ourselves in our own way. Its just my 2 cents and worth just about as much, but if hes not actively trying to stop you from pursuing these interests, I would say that he would have just as much right to not enjoy them. Very often the respect for the other person often gets lost in the shuffle of thoughts when looking at our lives. I look back and see that in many past relationships as well as my own D. I liked fixing up the house, saving for the future, planning for an early retirement and such and my wife per her own words "wasn't that into it" so that of course made us incompatible. Did it? Not really, what did was the fact that she couldn't respect that these were my interests and my desires. I didn't take from her to save for the future, upgrades to the house were done with what I could afford to spend on such things after all our needs and any of her wants were met, and I never said that because i hoped to retire early someday that she would be expected to follow suit. What made us incompatible wasn't these things because they really carried little impact on our life together, what did was that i didn't want exactly the same things she wanted, didn't follow the same career path or like all the same things. .... THAT NEVER HAPPENS! There will always be things for you both together and places where you differ. Marriage is all about finding that place in the middle. If his idea of fixing up the house is contractors and writing a check and yours is Elbow grease and paint on your clothes, the end product is till the same, so long as his hiring out isn't impacting you both negatively financially let him do his part his way and your part yours. This sort of thinking applies to a lot more then just working around the house!!! TOJAZ
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