"All's Fair in Love and War"

[ladydesigner]

... or his family.

 

Ha ha ha DIC. This is so true. We have a serial cheater in our family, it is a known fact. He never ceases to amaze us:laugh:

[desertIslandCactus]

Ha ha ha DIC. This is so true. We have a serial cheater in our family, it is a known fact. He never ceases to amaze us:laugh:

 

ah knows it.. I've seen it .. And the fallout does trickle down to the children as well.

 

Their fraud even affected a cousin.

[tami-chan]

But like all humans, we try to force our own beliefs and values on one another.

 

I try not to, as I am sure many here do, too. "Applauding and celebrating" are quite different from "trying to force one's own beliefs"....

[jj33]

Well I don't believe all is fair in love. I can't speak about war because I am a lover not a fighter. But love is not fair.

 

I am a dancer. I travel with my dance company from time to time, leaving my wife at home with our children. I always spoil her before I go away, buying her nice pretty negligees and lacey stockings, the sort of things I'd like to wear myself, but in her size of course!

 

My wife knows I like to dress up in pretty clothes. I don't wear hers. I have my own which I keep in suitcase under the bed. I only dress up when the children are out. I don't want to have to explain to them that I am not gay, I just love getting in touch with my feminine side! But my wife could not accept me for the man I am and rejected my inner self and had an affair while I was away! Wench!

 

I can't afford a divorce with two children and a wife who doesn't work. But how can I trust her now? If I go away on tour she will get up to her tricks again I am sure! I can't believe she would put on those pretty things I bought her for this man who can't even tell satin from silk!

 

Love is definitely not fair!

 

Thomasina that is one of the most touching posts I have read in a long time. No love is definitely not fair sometimes. You sound like a lovely man.

 

With no offense you do make me laugh - he wouldnt know satin from silk (or sateen!).

[desertIslandCactus]

Help me out here, why can't a married woman be happy she's married to her own husband?

 

And what is it with the winning? Does anyone else here think they "won" their spouse?

 

Bizarre way of thinking, IMO...

 

You forgot to quote my last sentence:

 

Any question in her original post, has been answered several times in this thread.

[OWoman]

Help me out here, why can't a married woman be happy she's married to her own husband?

 

:love: While I don't endorse the concept of owning another human being, it is rather sweet the way he pledged that he "belonged" to me, and only me, consistently throughout the A, and still continues to do so throughout each day, affirming the choices we've made and celebrating the continued growth and joy of our love. :love:

 

I really do wish that for everyone here, whether with their current AP or some other R in their lives (or, for those reconciled fBSs, with their fWS). The kind of love that adds colour to every day, that sharpens the senses and heightens the experience of being alive, that singles you out as special amongst all of the life forms on the planet, and that liberates every hidden dream and desire within you - walking in light, in joy and in peace; love like that wants to spread and share the joy with others, radiating out to bring hope to those whose lives are folded in like a bud, waiting for the sunshine to bring them into bloom.

[Bionic Me]

"If he loves you, he'll move mountains to be with you"...

 

Yet when he does (OK, she wasn't quite as big as a mountain...), the nay-sayers don't clasp their hands in delight at the manifestation of true love trouncing the adversity that threatened to obstruct it, instead they mutter darkly about "what he did with you, he'll do to you".

 

That's fine - he made love with me, I'm quite happy for him to make love to me, too :love:

 

 

Why does it sound like you are still fighting a war, though?

War- horrible thing. Much at a loss... and at the end, what is it really gained? Freedom from pain, slavery, abuse, etc... Yeah, that compares to love. Such a fallible phrase.

[pureinheart]

But like all humans, we try to force our own beliefs and values on one another.

 

Maybe you do...this is the OM/OW board is it not?

[USCGAviator]

inb4****getsreal

[tami-chan]

Maybe the couple doesn't WANT to get married?

 

How is that any different than a couple where neither is married but don't want to marry each other, but still are in a R?

 

You've been with your SO for half a decade and apparently neither of you feel the itch, so why should you be so judgmental of others?

 

Some people don't need mountains to be moved, they are happy with what they have.

Or are you projecting because you wish your SO would marry you?

 

Oh no, you didn't!!! <gasp>!

 

:lmao:!!!

[USCGAviator]

Yah, that's what I thought.

 

 

Uh oh

[Summer Breeze]

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if it's been said.

 

All's fair in love

When I told xMM I loved him I told him it was a gift. He could do anything he wanted to with it. He didn't have to return the feeling or the words. He didn't have to acknowledge it. It just was there. I felt it and I wanted him to know I did. He said the same back to me and we had a wonderful relationship. I wasn't at war with anyone I was in love.

 

All's fair in war

Well I guess if I had to break an A down to what war was it would be dday. In my case multiple ddays. At that point there was a feeling of being at odds with his W. I never felt at war with her and I never chased him. The one thing that I would say fell under this part was that I had a voice then. He was busted and he knew full well that if I were to be asked something she'd get an answer and it would be honest. I guess my part of being 'unfair' was to not side with him but to side with me. I honestly didn't do it as some act of war on his W but as me showing him that I was going to protect myself with the truth. She could think what she wanted after I'd told her and shown her what she wanted but he knew full well he wasn't going to get away with lying about me and the nature of our R. The funny thing is he never did lie to her about us. She found out and he gave her full access to everything and then I did the same.

 

My assessment. I don't think the 'love and war' in my case was aimed at his W. It was all aimed at him. It never got nasty and this thread has taken me to thinking about things I haven't for a very long time but it's interesting. When I was a BS the OW wasn't an issue in the A. When I was an OW the BS wasn't an issue in the A. The relationships are with the H/xMM and that's where the love and the 'war' were going on-at least in my cases.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Summer Breeze]

Hi OWL!

 

I think there is just a huge amount of denial going on. So many OWs come to this forum thinking their affair was unique, only to read the stories and find out that theirs is textbook. Not saying this to insult them, there is just a script that married people that take lovers seem to follow. But somehow saying this is insulting to some. Or considered to be taking over the narrative of what this forum was meant for.

My parents had a script as we were growing up; don't throw the ball in the house, be home before 11, eat your vegetables. My first, second and every subsequent R had a script as they progressed; meet, date, laugh, explore, settle in. My workplaces have all had scripts; be in at x, leave at x, your pay is x, review, raise. Every step of the way I've had relationships with people that have been scripted. How many times did I say I wasn't going to be my mother and say some of those things to my child and how many times did I say as an employee I wouldn't treat someone like this boss treats me? And yet my script was the same as theirs because we're humans and we react to situations and needs and desires and feelings of inadequacy and every other emotion going. Every single thing I mentioned above had a 'script' but they were all unique. Every relationship is unique and has a character of its own. Are MM/MW using a script no. They're in situations and reacting just as we all do in situations all through our lives. It doesn't mean that what happens within that situation isn't unique and different from everyone elses situation. My xH used the script the night I found out about his A. I can't believe I did it, I don't know what I was thinking, I love you so much, I can't lose you, I'll do anything. Script. I didn't buy it but a lot of people do and manage to R. IMO it is insulting to say that As are no more than a script because every R in the world is. It's the stuff inside, the adlibbing that makes the R unique whether it's an M, an A or a reconcilliation.

 

Back to my point, sorry. There is an amount of denial on the part of many OPs in that they actually seem to think that their married lover would never turn around and do the same thing to them that they did to their previous partner. It could be that the married lover is just that convincing in saying so.

 

Either way, I don't believe for minute that anyone claiming to always live by the title of this thread actually does so. Every normal person would be hurt and angry if an intimate betrayed them. Especially if the betrayer and their accomplice turned to them and said "all's fair in love and war".

 

FTR, I have no issue with the saying. I'm okay with being on the winning side of that equation, but I accept that I might not be. If its okay for me to unfairly win, I have to accept that its okay for someone else to do so at my expense too.

Yup I couldn't agree with this last paragraph more. You gotta take as good as you give. Not everyone does though. Well said.

 

Hope I didn't thread jack here. My comments in bold.

[White Flower]

Could you please expound a little upon the bolded phrase above? My understanding was that the MM goes where he wants. That he isn't "owned" by anyone, either BW or OW. He follows his heart, isn't that right?

 

The bolded phrase was to keep my post on topic with the thread and yes, the MM goes wherever he wants. I never said anything about him being owned.

[White Flower]

And herenow is yet ANOTHER BS who wished her fWS well on the discovery of an OW!

 

Where are all these manipulative, guilting, pull out all the stops, use any tactic available to get these MM back BSs hiding?:)

 

Very good point Spark (even though we are off topic).

 

I have come to the conclusion that those who stoop to such tactics probably can't spell all that well and couldn't hold an argument with those here who seem to do well standing on their own. But then clingy types never really could.

[White Flower]

Win? I'm thinking that you really mean survival. I find it disgusting that you would compare vietnam vets with affairs. Complete injustice to those who did what they did to survive to get back to their families.

 

I have no idea why anyone would glorify an affair. Do they happen? Yes. But the intent on hurting people further by gloating baffles me.

 

You might want to go back and read what I bolded.

 

Love isn't exclusive to affairs. The statement could be said of any kind of love including love of friends, love of children, and also of affairs.

[OWoman]

... or his family, incl last wife.

 

She's not his family, and never was.

[LifesontheUp]

Mercifully, it was either deleted or just placed elsewhere on the net. Those were most definitely the ponderings of a person I would choose to never meet IRL.

 

Yes indeed they are. I hope she gets help soon poor thing

[NoIDidn't]

My parents had a script as we were growing up; don't throw the ball in the house, be home before 11, eat your vegetables. My first, second and every subsequent R had a script as they progressed; meet, date, laugh, explore, settle in. My workplaces have all had scripts; be in at x, leave at x, your pay is x, review, raise. Every step of the way I've had relationships with people that have been scripted. How many times did I say I wasn't going to be my mother and say some of those things to my child and how many times did I say as an employee I wouldn't treat someone like this boss treats me? And yet my script was the same as theirs because we're humans and we react to situations and needs and desires and feelings of inadequacy and every other emotion going. Every single thing I mentioned above had a 'script' but they were all unique. Every relationship is unique and has a character of its own. Are MM/MW using a script no. They're in situations and reacting just as we all do in situations all through our lives. It doesn't mean that what happens within that situation isn't unique and different from everyone elses situation. My xH used the script the night I found out about his A. I can't believe I did it, I don't know what I was thinking, I love you so much, I can't lose you, I'll do anything. Script. I didn't buy it but a lot of people do and manage to R. IMO it is insulting to say that As are no more than a script because every R in the world is. It's the stuff inside, the adlibbing that makes the R unique whether it's an M, an A or a reconcilliation.

 

This is pretty much what I meant by using the word "script". It wasn't used to say that the situations weren't unique, just that they follow a familiar script.

 

I am sorry that the climate in this forum lends itself to defensiveness for those it was intended to help. At no point was it said that the A is "nothing more than a script". That was never written. What was written is that there seems to be a script that married people that take lovers seem to follow. Big difference.

 

I fully recognize the uniqueness of the players and their affairs. However, they still follow a script, like you rightly noted that other events in life do as well. Unique but scripted.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

I think we applaud and celebrate "successful" relationships when it reflects our own beliefs and values. So that, a BS who "moves mountains" to fix he/his marriage and succeeds he/she is applauded by those, say. who are more traditional/conventional/conservative and the like but an AP who "moves mountains" to be with the married partner is frowned upon by the same.

 

In my opinion, anyone who participates in our custom of "monogamous marriage" probably is going to "applaud and celebrate" a successful marriage, whether they are personally traditional, conventional and conservative or a raving left wing tattoo encrusted Unitarian Obama-supporting punk rocker.

 

I am about as far from "traditional / conventional / conservative" as one can get, yet I try to respect other people's values and live by my own. Part of that, for me, means that married people are off limits for me, and if I'm married or in a monogamous relationship, other sexual liaisons are off limits for me as well.

 

You, on the other hand, express yourself as a pretty cookie - cutter "conservative" here on LS, yet you are able to "applaud and celebrate" successful affairs, which I guess would be defined as those where the husband or wife is left in favor of the AP.

 

Also, "All's fair in love and war" is easily understood by anyone who can read the words. No translation necessary.

 

Just my observations!

[NoIDidn't]

Yeah, just like marriages follow a script.

 

Unique, yet scripted.

 

Yes, they do. Especially when they came about after an affair. Those have a 75% or higher failure rate. Much higher than the 50% bandied about here. I guess the next OW to the MM that marries his OW has a much better chance of getting him to leave.

[NoIDidn't]

In my opinion, anyone who participates in our custom of "monogamous marriage" probably is going to "applaud and celebrate" a successful marriage, whether they are personally traditional, conventional and conservative or a raving left wing tattoo encrusted Unitarian Obama-supporting punk rocker.

 

I am about as far from "traditional / conventional / conservative" as one can get, yet I try to respect other people's values and live by my own. Part of that, for me, means that married people are off limits for me, and if I'm married or in a monogamous relationship, other sexual liaisons are off limits for me as well.

 

You, on the other hand, express yourself as a pretty cookie - cutter "conservative" here on LS, yet you are able to "applaud and celebrate" successful affairs, which I guess would be defined as those where the husband or wife is left in favor of the AP.

 

Also, "All's fair in love and war" is easily understood by anyone who can read the words. No translation necessary.

 

Just my observations!

 

 

The reason nobody celebrates marriages that came from affairs is because they involved ending someone else's happy ending.

 

If all was truly fair in love and war for those marriages, they wouldn't care if they were celebrated or not since they got what they wanted - which I thought was the point.

[Silly_Girl]

In my opinion, anyone who participates in our custom of "monogamous marriage" probably is going to "applaud and celebrate" a successful marriage, whether they are personally traditional, conventional and conservative or a raving left wing tattoo encrusted Unitarian Obama-supporting punk rocker.

 

Can I ask - do you think you could applaud and celebrate a successful marriage whereby one or both parties were committed to another when they met? Can it be celebrated if an affair ensued? And marriages that possibly should never have been are left behind as a result?

[Silly_Girl]

The reason nobody celebrates marriages that came from affairs is because they involved ending someone else's happy ending.

Staggering generalisation...

[desertIslandCactus]

The reason nobody celebrates marriages that came from affairs is because they involved ending someone else's happy ending.

 

If all was truly fair in love and war for those marriages, they wouldn't care if they were celebrated or not since they got what they wanted - which I thought was the point.

 

If everyone would remember some of these posts (as bolded), we wouldn't be going round and round on the merry-go-round here .. And with the horses being excuses.