Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I understand that your wife crossed some lines with this guy, and I have only skimmed the posts since the OP so perhaps I have missed something crucial. And I absolutely do not believe that two wrongs make a right, and I'm very glad to hear that you two are in counseling. But honestly, I remember your past threads about your neighbor, and I think your wife is being a little shortchanged here. I have seen her described as deprioritizing your marriage by wearing sweats in her own house, and I have seen you depict your three-year crush as entirely unacted upon. Physically, I believe that is true. But I also recall your admitting to a few awkward moments of silence where you and the fantasized-about neighbor, your 'friend', kind of leaned into each other, danced around a few subject, things unsaid heavy in the air. I remember thinking that you were kidding yourself when you suggested that you had not crossed any emotional lines, and also pointing out that your disappointment about your wife's little foibles (not having sophisticated enough taste in music, wearing sweats) was likely fueled by your fantasy about your tall, beautiful neighbor. Honestly, three years of lusting after a nearby woman you spent a lot of time with, exchanging letters and confidences with her, fantasizing the 'what ifs' if you had married her instead of your wife, to the point where you turned a critical eye on your own 'boring' marriage and wife--I really wonder how much positive energy was robbed from your marriage by this, and how much your wife felt it. How 'deprioritized' do you think she felt, over the past three years? She did, at one point, ask you about your relationship with the neighbor, so obviously she did feel something. Turning to another man for comfort and understanding wasn't the right thing to do. I'm not condoning it. But I don't think you're owning up fully to your part in making your marriage vulnerable, either, with all the pointing fingers about how she should have been the strong one, after you spent all this time distancing yourself. Honestly, while I'm sorry that both of you had to wander off the rails a little bit, one of my first reactions was that this could be the jolt you needed to save your marriage. You have been struggling with 'grass is greener' syndrome for a few years now, it's possible you needed a bit of a kick in the butt to see that your own patch of grass is still lush and verdant. I hope that you two will continue to uncover these things in your therapy and come out on the other side with a more confident union. What tests us makes us stronger. Thank you for your input. I'm quick to admit, I was not perfect in this mess. There's more - considerably more - going on than I'm letting on here. This is the nuts and bolts, but I'm saving the minute details for my wife, our counselor and me. Obviously, you're only hearing one side of this story, so there may be some bias on my part. But I'm well aware I'm not totally innocent, even if I try to paint myself as the martyr. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 No it's not inaccurate. When you're tempted to do something you're obviously going to think about it. This is getting to be semantics, but I'd argue thinking about something and committing to a concrete plan are two separate things. I might think about turning down my neighbor's stereo, but drawing floor plans to break into his house are two separate things. In my opinion. Sorry but this is a red flag here. Why is she being so defensive? She should be completely transparent with you and answer all of your questions with no attitude. Discussing it in detail should not be "touchy." I think she was being defensive because I'd already gone on the offensive. Had I brought it up reasonably, she may have been able to discuss it diplomatically. We'll see - this is still a sore spot between the two of us. Thanks for your input! Link to post Share on other sites
Distant78 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I think she was being defensive because I'd already gone on the offensive. Had I brought it up reasonably, she may have been able to discuss it diplomatically. We'll see - this is still a sore spot between the two of us. Regardless she disrespected your marriage and was involved with another man. She should be doing everything to assure you it won't happen again. If she can't be respectful enough to answer all of your questions then there's no point in trying. You have every right to be angry. Can't be letting her have her way right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 You had asked the wrong question! She might not have slept with him, but did she make out with him, did she suck him off, did she give him a handjob? You mean these are acceptable to you?!! Firstly,thank you for commenting! Of course it's not acceptable. But after sufficient grilling, I don't believe anything physical happened. Might I be wrong? Sure. But at this point it doesn't matter as the mess is already there, the damage is done. she brought new sexy clothing, heels boots etc to the trip, that she has never worn for you before, and she got her hair done to look nice (for who??). Btw, a wife wearing sexy clothing for someone else, that she has never worn before for her H, is a very very common and obvious sign. Even if she has not officially started an affair, it is crystal clear thats she wanted to attract him. And shouldn't she be wearing professional attire instead of sexy clothings? She took some professional clothes and some more, um, playful attire as well. As stated above, I'm mostly convinced she did not physically sleep with him or whatever else. But I am convinced she was attracted to him and vice versa. This is a sore spot we're trying to deal with as she steadfastly denies she was ever attracted to him. She's relented somewhat that maybe - just maybe - he was attracted to her but even that is tough for her to own up to. I'm accepting her story that she never was attracted to him (going along to get along) but not believing it. I already told her - "Hey, it's okay if you were tempted, it's going to happen sooner or later. Hell, I've been tempted, too." And yet she sticks to her story that she's never been tempted or even thought of someone else. Ever. Anywhere. Which I simply find difficult to believe. Perhaps that says more about me than her, though. You are 90% certain that they had phone sex..(how did you know btw?) My wife and I work together, in the same office. I noticed a pattern to her phone conversations with him - that they typically only took place when I was gone. And after awhile, they only took place on her cell phone. That was the first inkling - not really a big deal. But then I found a chat that essentially spelled it out very clearly. It was: "Hey - are you alone?" "Yeah, I'm alone." "Wanna call?" "Sure. Let me make sure no one's here." "OK." "Okay - coast is clear." "Awesome, I'll call you. I totally need this right now." "God, me too." Of course, I didn't hear the conversation, but it seems clear the only business they discussed was of the monkey variety. I'm unsure if she's aware I found that chat. There were others, but that one seemed the most damning. The other major ref flag is, they talked bad about you in the emails/chat logs, and she DID NOT stop him and did not defend you in any way. And yes, confiding her marriage troubles in another man, instead of girlfriends, is simply inviting for trouble and sending signals to the other guy. Do not believe her excuse that she is naive, upset, blah blah... This is what she's been most apologetic about up to now. She feels bad that she spoke that poorly of me, not so much that she was saying it to him (which is what truly bothers me) but that she was saying it at all (which doesn't phase me as much). Again - more grist for MCing Lastly, should you expose to the guy's wife? The answer is YES. Not so much for revenge at this point. Its more for: - the wife may provide some info that might be very useful to you, e.g. info that dovetail with the info you have and confirms that something is going on between your wife and the guy - to see the reaction of your wife will she be defensive of him....the reaction of your wife will interesting and will reveal a lot Finally, do not believe her when she said she did not sleep with him. ALL cheaters lie...based on the red flags of her wearing sexy clothing for him and the derogatory elements in her emails/chat logs, it is a potential affair, even if it has not started. I was this/close to e-mailing her everything the other evening, but wanted at least a second opinion - I've not confided in anyone really so I didn't know where to turn. So I logged into LS after a three month absence. I was quickly reminded that all this will do is cause problems for her (at best) or backfire and ruin any credibility I've built up since this mess started (at worst). It just didn't seem worth it. He'll get caught, eventually and then he'll be ****ed. I'll let someone else do the heavy lifting on that. However, once we are through financially with him, I intend to make it explicitly clear that he persona non grata forevermore. Like I said above, There's really very little more to damage in our marriage. I've already acknowledged my wife may or may not have cheated with him, I don't need any more details. I'm ready to move on with my wife. I might take a different approach if our differences become irreconcilable but for now I'm at least trying to make an honest effort. Thank you very much for your input! Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Regardless she disrespected your marriage and was involved with another man. She should be doing everything to assure you it won't happen again. If she can't be respectful enough to answer all of your questions then there's no point in trying. You have every right to be angry. Can't be letting her have her way right now. My wife and I, in diplomatic terms, are in a period of détente. And taking a line from President Reagan, I've chosen to trust, but verify. Link to post Share on other sites
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm accepting her story that she never was attracted to him (going along to get along) but not believing it. "Hey - are you alone?" "Yeah, I'm alone." "Wanna call?" "Sure. Let me make sure no one's here." "OK." "Okay - coast is clear." "Awesome, I'll call you. I totally need this right now." "God, me too." Let me get this straight - she's had at least 1 bout of secret phone sex with him, yet denies being attracted to him? Or the fact that he's very clearly attracted to her? And you're accepting that? Um riiiiiight. Sorry playboy, but I'm calling bs on your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Let me get this straight - she's had at least 1 bout of secret phone sex with him, yet denies being attracted to him? Or the fact that he's very clearly attracted to her? And you're accepting that? Um riiiiiight. Sorry playboy, but I'm calling bs on your wife. There's a difference between accepting it and believing it. I don't believe it, but I'm accepting it because if I didn't we'd be over by now. You're totally right about calling BS, but these are the cards we've been dealt and I'm not ready to fold. Yet. Now if she turns over a couple of jacks, kings or jokers...then it's a different story. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well, I suppose marriage is not that boring anymore... (sorry, I couldn't resist). From your older posts, I get the impression there is a real disconnection between the two of you. Can't remember if you've tried counselling, but there's something just not right about your relationship. How's sex these days? I suppose it's a bit of a difficult situation at the moment... Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well, I suppose marriage is not that boring anymore... (sorry, I couldn't resist). From your older posts, I get the impression there is a real disconnection between the two of you. Can't remember if you've tried counselling, but there's something just not right about your relationship. How's sex these days? I suppose it's a bit of a difficult situation at the moment... The sex has been more frequent - up to roughly once a week. We had been at once or twice a month for a long time and after this whole thing, I said that was no longer acceptable and offered her a good reason as to why I found unacceptable. She's made the effort to actually go for it, to force herself to go for it as the case may be. We are in MC and it helps to some degree. But it doesn't solve everything, not yet at least. Thanks! And I hope things are going kind of okay for you? Link to post Share on other sites
Distant78 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 There's a difference between accepting it and believing it. I don't believe it, but I'm accepting it because if I didn't we'd be over by now. And accepting her continuous disrespect and her recent betrayal and lies so easily is not good. You must draw a line in the sand. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Thanks! And I hope things are going kind of okay for you? ok, I understand... I suppose it was a bit of a silly question... Things between us are as a good as they'll ever get... i.e. jut about bearable... Link to post Share on other sites
jenifer1972 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 You both had an emotional affair. I'd call it even and look at it as a symptom of a marriage that had some " drift" but can be righted. You will get nowhere with revenge. He didn't sleep with her and will portray himself as the sympathetic misunderstood friend and you as the psycho jealous husband.. Link to post Share on other sites
AVR1962 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I don't know your wife but what I can tell you is that it is possible if she is like me to enjoy the attention and know that this man likes her but that doesn't mean she would sleep with the guy. I think men and women's minds work differently. You were probably right that the guy wanted her but she may have been blosing the thoughts off. Hard to say since we weren't there. Thinking this over and over is not going to make it go away, infact you could have hard feelings for your wife not knowing what the truth of the matter is. I say, think of yourself as the winner here or she woudl ahve left you. If she falls in love with anyone that does not have to reflect on who you are, life will go on. If for whatever reason you fell for another woman and decided to end your marriage to be with her, the last thing you'd want to do is hurt your wife and I think it is safe to say that this is true in her case too. I have been in your shoes.....my first husband did leave me for the woman he was messing with. I loved him enough to let him go. It was hard but I went on with life. My second husband and I ahve been married 18 years and he has had several infatuations. He claimed for many years that they were just friendly and there was nothing to them but I felt he wasn't truthful and I kept pressing for the truth eventhugh the situations were long gone. He finally admitted these were emotional affairs, said he thought about sex with them but they never did anything. Who knows what really did happen. One thing is for certain, they are in the past, we are still together and I guess he chose me. Link to post Share on other sites
mayoraleirtevecsp Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 подсматривать веб смотреть кино о сексе мультфильмы порно почтой порно ролики большых сисек жесткий минет видео секс между супругами сперма на стервах портал секс развлечений смотреть онлайн порно футболисток сын ебет мать онлайн немецкое порно онлаин степан меншиков секс порновидео онлайн на публике фото письки беркова смотреть онлайн груповуха скачать фото вуаеризм реальное лешение девственности смотреть в онлайне секс за деньги фото нудизм фото с лишением девственности секс филмы для посмотрет бесплатные порно мувики порно с гинекологом онлайн российские порно видео приколы брат порно фото сексе подглядывание секс алена середова порно фото семейные сексуальные фотографии фото сисек 5 прон онлайн сестра и брат порно фото фото голых порно скачать видео девочка у гинеколога стринги девочек струйный оргазм видео скачать бесплатно жесткий секс в ванной занялся сексом без презерватива онлайн прожектор пэрис хилтон молодые видео порно онлайн влагалище малолеток фото порно фильм смотреть скачать Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 And accepting her continuous disrespect and her recent betrayal and lies so easily is not good. You must draw a line in the sand. Except that OP is not in the position to be the big arbiter of betrayal and disrespect, since he himself has indulged in an EA with his neighbor for 3 years. He is not the one to be drawing lines in the sand for his wife's boundaries. After what has happened in this marriage, both of them have lines to draw in the sand for THEMSELVES, and if either of them is unwilling to do it, I am afraid that things are not going to get better. On the other hand, this is just the kind of situation that can ultimately strengthen a marriage - only if BOTH parties own up to their own mistakes, speak openly of their disappointments and needs, and do what is necessary to repair. OP - I just read the whole thread but I may have missed something. Am I correct that your wife is not aware that you read that convo about the phone call? I hope I am incorrect - this would be crucial to discuss, if you two are going to get to the point of real deep honesty and build trust back from there. She would HAVE to know that you saw this. Link to post Share on other sites
Distant78 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Except that OP is not in the position to be the big arbiter of betrayal and disrespect, since he himself has indulged in an EA with his neighbor for 3 years. He is not the one to be drawing lines in the sand for his wife's boundaries. After what has happened in this marriage, both of them have lines to draw in the sand for THEMSELVES, and if either of them is unwilling to do it, I am afraid that things are not going to get better. On the other hand, this is just the kind of situation that can ultimately strengthen a marriage - only if BOTH parties own up to their own mistakes, speak openly of their disappointments and needs, and do what is necessary to repair. OP - I just read the whole thread but I may have missed something. Am I correct that your wife is not aware that you read that convo about the phone call? I hope I am incorrect - this would be crucial to discuss, if you two are going to get to the point of real deep honesty and build trust back from there. She would HAVE to know that you saw this. Oh well dude you're both in trouble. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 And accepting her continuous disrespect and her recent betrayal and lies so easily is not good. You must draw a line in the sand. The line I've drawn is to accept she's not perfect, I'm not perfect and our relationship is not perfect. If she's willing to improve all three like I am, I'm happy. If everything was so black and white, we would have divorced long ago. Hell, we might never have had a second date if life was so cut and dry. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 ok, I understand... I suppose it was a bit of a silly question... Things between us are as a good as they'll ever get... i.e. jut about bearable... Just about bearable is an improvement, I hope. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 You both had an emotional affair. I'd call it even and look at it as a symptom of a marriage that had some " drift" but can be righted. You will get nowhere with revenge. He didn't sleep with her and will portray himself as the sympathetic misunderstood friend and you as the psycho jealous husband.. We discussed some things last Thursday, particularly my hunger for revenge. I'm making a real effort to not keep things from her anymore, even unattractive traits like this. It was not easy, but these are the things we have to do get through this. I intend to bring up the revenge factor to our counselor on Friday. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 We discussed some things last Thursday, particularly my hunger for revenge. I'm making a real effort to not keep things from her anymore, even unattractive traits like this. It was not easy, but these are the things we have to do get through this. I intend to bring up the revenge factor to our counselor on Friday. Openness leads to intimacy, which leads to her feeling "in love", which leads to the hot sex, which leads to a happy (not bored) husband Keep it up! Rooting for you guys Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 IP, I think you are handling this great. The desire for revenge is absolutely normal and good to openly address. Over time it almost always fades. A long time ago I posted something to you that in hindsight was poorly framed. What I intended to say was "If you really are being a good/great partner to your spouse and they are steadily deprioritizing YOUR needs it sends a terrible message to let that continue". Because at that point the "subtext" between you has become: Her to you: I deserve better than you You to her: You deserve better than me so I will accept being deprioritized That can spiral downward in an ugly way with your partner asking/demanding more and giving less and with you "trying harder" to fix things. It inevitably permeates into the bedroom. I am not saying that is your particular "cause and effect" cycle, just that the cycle itself usually gets ugly. And at a big enough "deserve better" spread infidelity becomes so very much easier for the "superior" partner to justify to themselves. We discussed some things last Thursday, particularly my hunger for revenge. I'm making a real effort to not keep things from her anymore, even unattractive traits like this. It was not easy, but these are the things we have to do get through this. I intend to bring up the revenge factor to our counselor on Friday. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I don't know your wife but what I can tell you is that it is possible if she is like me to enjoy the attention and know that this man likes her but that doesn't mean she would sleep with the guy. I think men and women's minds work differently. You were probably right that the guy wanted her but she may have been blosing the thoughts off. Hard to say since we weren't there. Thinking this over and over is not going to make it go away, infact you could have hard feelings for your wife not knowing what the truth of the matter is. I say, think of yourself as the winner here or she woudl ahve left you. If she falls in love with anyone that does not have to reflect on who you are, life will go on. If for whatever reason you fell for another woman and decided to end your marriage to be with her, the last thing you'd want to do is hurt your wife and I think it is safe to say that this is true in her case too. I have been in your shoes.....my first husband did leave me for the woman he was messing with. I loved him enough to let him go. It was hard but I went on with life. My second husband and I ahve been married 18 years and he has had several infatuations. He claimed for many years that they were just friendly and there was nothing to them but I felt he wasn't truthful and I kept pressing for the truth eventhugh the situations were long gone. He finally admitted these were emotional affairs, said he thought about sex with them but they never did anything. Who knows what really did happen. One thing is for certain, they are in the past, we are still together and I guess he chose me. I completely agree that she enjoyed the attention he gave her. Completely agree with that. The one person who disagrees though is my wife. She insists - insists - she never noticed the attention and praise he offered was anything less than professional. It's gotten to the point where I think she's convinced herself it's true. Either that or she is unaware how closely I scrutinized their emails and chat logs. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Except that OP is not in the position to be the big arbiter of betrayal and disrespect, since he himself has indulged in an EA with his neighbor for 3 years. He is not the one to be drawing lines in the sand for his wife's boundaries. After what has happened in this marriage, both of them have lines to draw in the sand for THEMSELVES, and if either of them is unwilling to do it, I am afraid that things are not going to get better. On the other hand, this is just the kind of situation that can ultimately strengthen a marriage - only if BOTH parties own up to their own mistakes, speak openly of their disappointments and needs, and do what is necessary to repair. OP - I just read the whole thread but I may have missed something. Am I correct that your wife is not aware that you read that convo about the phone call? I hope I am incorrect - this would be crucial to discuss, if you two are going to get to the point of real deep honesty and build trust back from there. She would HAVE to know that you saw this. I would never claim to be perfect in this mess and I think every marriage, every divorce, every break up typically has two people at fault - it's never just one person. That's just me. There were things I've not disclosed here that made my interest in my neighbor if not inevitable at least unsurprising. And the same goes with my neighbor for that matter. Likewise, there were things that increased the likelihood of my wife's interest in her mentor. We're human, we made mistakes. We can get through this. You are correct, I've not told her about the chat about the phone calls. I actually didn't notice it immediately and thus didn't confront her on it initially - it was buried in a mountain of chat logs. And actually, I don't find it the most hurtful, but just the most clear cut. Granted, I don't know what they discussed, but the context...well you read it. It wasn't an exact quote but a pretty close paraphrase. Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Openness leads to intimacy, which leads to her feeling "in love", which leads to the hot sex, which leads to a happy (not bored) husband Keep it up! Rooting for you guys I have my fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites
Author InternationalPlayboy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 IP, I think you are handling this great. The desire for revenge is absolutely normal and good to openly address. Over time it almost always fades. A long time ago I posted something to you that in hindsight was poorly framed. What I intended to say was "If you really are being a good/great partner to your spouse and they are steadily deprioritizing YOUR needs it sends a terrible message to let that continue". Because at that point the "subtext" between you has become: Her to you: I deserve better than you You to her: You deserve better than me so I will accept being deprioritized That can spiral downward in an ugly way with your partner asking/demanding more and giving less and with you "trying harder" to fix things. It inevitably permeates into the bedroom. I am not saying that is your particular "cause and effect" cycle, just that the cycle itself usually gets ugly. And at a big enough "deserve better" spread infidelity becomes so very much easier for the "superior" partner to justify to themselves. I don't know if I'm handling this great, I'm not sure anyone handles this well. But I'm making an effort and that's at least something. I think you hit upon something that we've discussed in MC - I tended to put her on a pedestal and failed to understand her very human needs. It may not have sounded that way in some of my threads regarding my neighbor, but in practice I did elevate her to an unreasonable degree - she even acknowledges it. Thank you for your support! Link to post Share on other sites
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