Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 That's BS, mostly based on a stereotype. I don't know ANY women, even driven ones, who have this attitude. I'm sure some exist, but they're definitely in the minority. Most women in their late twenties+ are looking to settle down. I lived in New York while the whole SATC thing was happening and it very much was the case. There was even a Time cover that asked who needs a husband with the four women on the front. Now these same women wonder why men don't want to commit.
Disillusioned Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Try having an expiration date on your reproductive organs, and then we'll talk. What's the expiration date on yours?
Disillusioned Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Most women in their late twenties+ are looking to settle down. Not if they're in Los Angeles!
EmperorR Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I agree with woggle. Twice engaged to two different women cheated on twice both long term relationships and both no redflags, thought I learned my lesson the first time did the necessary things to improve myself and still got burned. Now A year later I have zero intention of getting married or settling down with a woman and I could not be happier .
Author pandagirl Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 It is this unsympathetic attitude that makes many men hard. C'mon. This is silly. Both men and woman get their heart broken. This has nothing to do with gender. Just as many women get screwed over as men do. But maybe it's because all my girlfriends are very nice, caring people that I never see this supposed "evil" side of women. And to address Shadow's comment on men "hardening," I think this has truth to it, but I think it's because men are socially programmed to not talk through their emotions, show weakness or communicate their feelings, so they end up being "hardened" if they go through bad experiences in life, because they keep it all inside. But the more I think about it, maybe it IS because I live in the biggest city in the US that so many women AND men are single. The only pressing issue for women my age is our fertility. I have maybe three years until I'll start really panicking about all this stuff. But I already know the countdown has begun. If it wasn't for wanting children, I'd be perfectly happy being single.
Star Gazer Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Most women in their late twenties+ are looking to settle down. Disagree. I wasn't when I was in my late 20's, and most others aren't if they're not already advanced and stable in their careers.
Chicago_Guy Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I think you would find a similar sampling of men, but the difference is, there men aren't looking for a relationship. At ages 30-35, men here aren't in the "settling down" mindset yet. Funny, my beautiful, stunning friend moved back to CA this summer. She was previously single for three years after a run of 1-2 month flings that ended in disappointment. A month after leaving NYC, she met her current boyfriend. That is simply not true - there are always men at that age looking for a relationship. If a guy wants to eventually get married and have kids and is at least somewhat professionally settled, he will probably definitely be open to having a relationship in his early 30s. Of course, men that age who have a lot going for them are not going to be willing to settle for something that is less than what they think they can get at some point. Maybe your friends are only going after player-type guys. If your friends are as beautiful as you claim they are, I bet that they are meeting quality attractive men all of the time but either your friends are not interested in those men or your friends don't give those men any indications of interest. An attractive man who isn't a player and who has a lot going for him is probably not going to waste his time going for a woman isn't showing interest when he is probably encountering other attractive women who do give clear signals of interest. I personally like it when a woman gives me clear signs of interest and it often heightens my attraction to her.
Chicago_Guy Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Another I want to ask is wasn't it not too long ago that women in cities didn't want to settle down? They enjoyed their independent free wheeling type of lifestyles and didn't want to be tied down to any man. They very much wanted to live a Sex and the city lifestyle and a husband was only going to hold them back from that. When did all of this change? Several female friends of my friend's wife lived that "Sex and the City" lifestyle in their 20s and into their mid-30s and are now having a hard time finding a decent man who would want to settle down with them. Some of those women totally slept around with losers and wasted their prime years doing this. I know that obviously not all women are like, but many men are somewhat suspicious of a woman in her mid-30s who doesn't really have a career (or any savings for that matter) and has never been married. From my perspective, dating is very easy for an attractive woman in her 20s, so men really wonder what a single mid-30s woman was doing during the past 15 years.
MrNate Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 It is this unsympathetic attitude that makes many men hard. Hm, I dont think its the unsympathetic attitude. I think sky's viewpoint seems more valid. What I've noticed is just how much, RESULTS matter when it comes to guys. I think a lot of them fall into that hardened path, then turn to PUA because it brings results. What's even more interesting is that worrying about the moral implications of the results (whether positive or negative) don't matter, because the fact that they are getting them overrides anything else.
mo mo Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Location Location Location. I think we discussed this is in a previous thread Panda. I'm done with NYC. I'm getting out. This city is not conducive to starting a healthy lasting relationship. ALL of my gfs are single now (which wasn't true a month ago when I was the only single one). For some reason or another all of their relationships crumbled and they are now back in the singles club with me. Their boyfriends "nexted" them over the silliest things- things which normal couples would take time to talk through and work on. Anyway, currently in the process of applying to a few jobs up in CT and White Plains. I'm hoping in a month I'll be packing and getting the heck out. I'm 27, fit, smart, attractive, employed and have my own car yet I'm still single. Meanwhile, all of my former classmates in different cities are all engaged/married at this point. It's seriously just NYC, the city of the "Next Syndrome". Glad I'm realizing this now before it's too late. omfg hook a brotha up
e.clipse Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I don't want to ride the inertia of this.... i'm 24 and live in vanity central. i and my (six) closest female friends, age group 24-27, are all single, with the exception of one who has two boyfriends (). we know a lot of women our age, who we met in high school and/or college, who are already married, with children, or in a committed relationship (at the very least). when my friends and i get together for cocktails, we always think about these women and how they "have someone" and how we must therefore somehow be defective in some way. all of my friends are attractive and in good shape, as is the prerequisite for residing here in this bubble of beauty, lest you want to be exiled to the Inland Empire. besides this most important attribute, they all exhibit good personalities. in fact, i am the one with the worst personality, as i am unfriendly and exude cynicism and disdain for mankind. my friends are cool, though. some of their light bulbs are a bit dim, but i guess that comes in handy for guys trying to hook up. anyway. tonight we were ingesting copious amounts of alcohol at TGIF, and we were slurring about this very topic: when will we find someone? i contend that they all will, just like you will too. love that is forced will always hurt. just you wait, chick-a-dee. NYC is a tough city, but you will find someone...maybe in a surrounding, more heart-warming city. i, on the other hand, just give up. la la la.
Titania22 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 The world doesnt need anymore babies. Low population growth is good. This is so true.
Vesna Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I love my life as a single person. After several failed or violent relationships I am now skittish when it comes to men. That said, I have dated some lovely guys as well. I am educated, funny, attractive, inquisitive, warm, creative and happy with my huge frilly bed in a sexy boudoir sleeping on my own. I am also terminally ill, something I don't make a big thing about and keep to myself. I have my own home and do not have issues with being lonely or feeling abandoned. In the SES I tend to belong to, there are so many homeless men who are aware that I live in a two bedroom home, the spare bedroom is my resource room. I have been accused by some of these men of being selfish for not opening my heart and my home to them. Why the Hell would I? While I am alive, I will not accomodate wasters and at my age, I deserve the best after what I have been through. If I hooked up with a man, he would have to be self-sufficient, have good hobbies, respect people and definitely get on with the mother of his children and not stab her in the back. I have always been loyal and pleasant to a man's ex-wife. Alas, it seems I am asking for too much so I will probably stay in the ranks of the outgoing, funloving, kind-hearted singletons that seem to pervade and evade the modern meat market.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 But I already know the countdown has begun. If it wasn't for wanting children, I'd be perfectly happy being single. This is another reason why so many men are afraid to commit. We don't want to be seen as simply a sperm donor by the woman in our life. You pretty much said that if it weren't for children you would have no use for a man so how is that supposed to make a man feel?
Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Several female friends of my friend's wife lived that "Sex and the City" lifestyle in their 20s and into their mid-30s and are now having a hard time finding a decent man who would want to settle down with them. Some of those women totally slept around with losers and wasted their prime years doing this. I know that obviously not all women are like, but many men are somewhat suspicious of a woman in her mid-30s who doesn't really have a career (or any savings for that matter) and has never been married. From my perspective, dating is very easy for an attractive woman in her 20s, so men really wonder what a single mid-30s woman was doing during the past 15 years. I don't have a problem with a woman who spent her twenties building a career or traveling or whatever but if she spent most of it chasing after scumbags and now all of a sudden wants to settle down when she feels the clock ticking most men will run. A woman with this mentality does not make for a lasting and happy marriage.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Another thing is that this is simply a case of people using their options. Women with good looks have plenty of options and pretty much all the freedom in the world. When they are in their 20s and smoking hot they have their pick of men ready to grovel at their feet so they can date around and break up with a guy at the drop of a hat if they meet a better looking one. The world is their oyster. Men with deep pockets and status also have plenty of options and freedom but this doesn't come until the 30s when men start building careers and the money starts coming in. They can now start acting like women do in their 20s. The only problem is now those same women are starting to notice their clock ticking or they are losing their looks or they are just simply tired of the Sex and the city lifestyle. Many men on the other hand though now have doors open to them that were closed in their 20s and the tables start to turn. The world is now their oyster.
Stockalone Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) I mean, is this the problem? That successful woman want someone as or more successful than them, which just screws us over? Many women will only date men who are at least their equal (including education level and earning potential). In comparison, most men don't really care that much about earning potential and education level. This creates an unbalance, which makes it harder for those women to find a desirable (equal) partner. I don't think this is THE problem, but it's part of the problem. For me this has actually been one hardest truths to swallow about the world. Most driven men harden with age. I think very young men (high school and college) are often, counterintuitively, more romantic and willing to commit. Then something happens to a lot of them. If they don't settle down early on they usually become jaded and hardened as they enter their mid twenties. I've witnessed it happen to many guys I've known over the years. I really think, strangely enough, this hardening is a result of a changed outlook on the world in other aspects of their lives: careers, socializing, networking. I've heard it a number of times straight from the guys themselves. Heartbreak has an effect, of course, but it's not as pronounced in my opinion. It doesn't have to be the result of having one's heart broken by a woman. However, the transformation you describe is, IME, always a direct result of interacting with women. I am not saying women are at fault, but they are usually what causes it. A young man who believes in romance, is willing to commit when he is young, doesn't change unless his views about women change. Besides, many women reward this transformation. It's called hopeless romantic for a reason. Pssh. EVERYONE has heartbreak in their past. They need to suck it up rather than being big babies. It is this unsympathetic attitude that makes many men hard. Oh come on. Everyone, women included, experiences heartbreak. If somebody uses that as an excuse to treat others with indifference, then they only have themselves to blame. Woggle has a point, though. Generally speaking, women often complain that men don't show enough emotions. They are only talking about positive emotions of course. When it comes to negative emotions, men better STFU and suck it up, otherwise they are called bitching whiners. That's BS, mostly based on a stereotype. I don't know ANY women, even driven ones, who have this attitude. I'm sure some exist, but they're definitely in the minority. Most women in their late twenties+ are looking to settle down. I don't think most women want to live a SATC lifestyle. Still, women who aren't looking to settle down before they reach their late twenties, or early thirties are still a problem for the young (college age), romantic guys who would be willing to commit. The women who are still in, or just finished college, and are looking for a LTR (much less think about "and they all lived happily ever after"), are few and far between. For the record, women face basically the same problems with men, but since we are talking about romantic men who harden with age, I am only looking at this from a man's POV. Edited January 29, 2011 by Stockalone
Author pandagirl Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 This is another reason why so many men are afraid to commit. We don't want to be seen as simply a sperm donor by the woman in our life. You pretty much said that if it weren't for children you would have no use for a man so how is that supposed to make a man feel? ???? Actually, I believe the complete opposite. I'd rather be single and without a child, than to end up with someone I'm not really in love with. It's really crazy how you are able to twist words and make the most negative conclusions about women. Many women will only date men who are at least their equal (including education level and earning potential). In comparison, most men don't really care that much about earning potential and education level. This creates an unbalance, which makes it harder for those women to find a desirable (equal) partner. I don't think this is THE problem, but it's part of the problem. This is true. I wonder why us women feel this way.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 You said that if it weren't for wanting children you would be single and happy. Those are your exact words. When a man hears this he thinks he is only wanted as a sperm donor and a beta provider which most men do not want to be.
BobSacamento Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Why are the jaded always so loud? And why should we even listen? All I read are generalizations. Wisdom? Hardly.
Author pandagirl Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 You said that if it weren't for wanting children you would be single and happy. Those are your exact words. When a man hears this he thinks he is only wanted as a sperm donor and a beta provider which most men do not want to be. This is just your projection of what you wanted to hear. I didn't mean that at all. But, yes, if I didn't want to have a child, I could relax about trying to meet someone to fall in love with and start a family. There's nothing negative in that statement.
zengirl Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Pssh. EVERYONE has heartbreak in their past. They need to suck it up rather than being big babies. And you know what telling someone this does? It hardens them. If someone has hardened due to heartbreak, they're essentially trying very hard NOT to be a big baby. I hope if a man ever does share such feelings with you that you don't react this way, because it's the least productive thing you can do in terms of having him share future feelings with anyone. This is the tack many fathers have taken for ages with their sons (and even sometimes mothers too, and society as well). And it's why men are more reticient to express feelings. The only pressing issue for women my age is our fertility. I have maybe three years until I'll start really panicking about all this stuff. But I already know the countdown has begun. If it wasn't for wanting children, I'd be perfectly happy being single. I understand why men fear this mindset. If you're happy being single, but you want a baby, he will worry that you didn't want him for HIM, and most men (most good men) want to be wanted for who they are and not for what they offer, including a stable family life. I want kids, but I only want them with the right man, and I want a marriage too. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting kids, but if it's the main motivating factor for a marriage-type commitment, that's an issue. If you're happy single but you want a kid or two, why not go about it another way? And if you're worried you'll find a guy "too late" -- there are other options with fertility, and even adoption and such later. None of them are cheap. But presumably successful women have some of the more expensive options on the table.
Woggle Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Thank you Zengirl for understanding exactly where we are coming from. Most men want commitment and marriage and all of that but clock ticking kind of women scare us for those exact reasons.
East7 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 While reading this thread I couldn't help thinking about a funny phrase Carry wrote in Sex & the City : Some people are settling down, some people are settling and some others refuse to settle for anything less than butterflies in the stomach. I think that we are so fed by medias/cinema with the "romantic and passionate" type of love that we refuse to invest in a R for anything less than being crazy in love with someone. I think our grand-parents were less concerned about how high they feel with a person. Sure people used to fall in love since humanity exists, but I think some decades ago, men who used to "like" a decent woman would not hesitate too much for asking her hand. Maybe i'm just idealizing but I think relationships were simpler. I think that people have now very high standards and the market is very vast, so relationships are follwing a consuming-society pattern.
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