pandagirl Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 So, I very quickly did a mental survey of 20 of my girlfriends and their relationship status. Here's what I've found: Location: NYC 20 Women Ages 28-33 -3 married (all are 33, and met their hubbies very young) -2 long-term relationships (both are 28) -15 single (10 are ages 30-32; 4 are 28-29) Now every single one of these ladies is attractive, slim, employed, and well-educated. Of course, their dynamics range the gamut, but they're all pleasant people with good, unique personalities. They're all very social people, so they're out meeting people, and many do online dating. Yet, most of these single women have been single for a long time, 2-3 years. Of course, there are flings and hook ups, but nothing of substance. What gives? I'm 32. I don't want to ride the inertia of this....
carhill Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I'll bet you could survey a sample of similar men and find the same dynamic. IMO, it's where you live. Fast paced, transient, often disconnected. I've never lived in Manhattan but have wandered the streets enough to get an impression. Take your sample group of ladies, move them to Cali where I live and you'd all be married within a year or two. I rarely meet single women of any age group here, beyond university age. Gender demographics are pretty equal. Different lifestyle and mindset.
Billy_Boy Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I'll bet you could survey a sample of similar men and find the same dynamic. IMO, it's where you live. Fast paced, transient, often disconnected. I've never lived in Manhattan but have wandered the streets enough to get an impression. Take your sample group of ladies, move them to Cali where I live and you'd all be married within a year or two. I rarely meet single women of any age group here, beyond university age. Gender demographics are pretty equal. Different lifestyle and mindset. Agreed, the same sampling would look a lot different just an hour north in CT where I live. I spend a lot of time in Manhattan and I will tell you, its not a place for families, its not a place for couples. Its a place for fun, its a place for career.
tigressA Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 One thing I've noticed among my friends (I'm 23 and the age group is 21-24) is that the ones who are engaged/married met their (future) spouse while rather young, like you mentioned in your OP--they started dating early on in college or even in high school. I think many who feel they've found their match early on want to stick with that person for life because navigating the dating world is very frustrating most of the time. Though I'm still quite young I'm feeling the frustration already and am thinking of sticking with the next one I like a lot who comes around, come hell or high water.
Author pandagirl Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 I'll bet you could survey a sample of similar men and find the same dynamic. IMO, it's where you live. Fast paced, transient, often disconnected. I've never lived in Manhattan but have wandered the streets enough to get an impression. Take your sample group of ladies, move them to Cali where I live and you'd all be married within a year or two. I rarely meet single women of any age group here, beyond university age. Gender demographics are pretty equal. Different lifestyle and mindset. I think you would find a similar sampling of men, but the difference is, there men aren't looking for a relationship. At ages 30-35, men here aren't in the "settling down" mindset yet. Funny, my beautiful, stunning friend moved back to CA this summer. She was previously single for three years after a run of 1-2 month flings that ended in disappointment. A month after leaving NYC, she met her current boyfriend.
Author pandagirl Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 One thing I've noticed among my friends (I'm 23 and the age group is 21-24) is that the ones who are engaged/married met their (future) spouse while rather young, like you mentioned in your OP--they started dating early on in college or even in high school. I think many who feel they've found their match early on want to stick with that person for life because navigating the dating world is very frustrating most of the time. Though I'm still quite young I'm feeling the frustration already and am thinking of sticking with the next one I like a lot who comes around, come hell or high water. haha. I know what you mean! That's why my last breakup was so hard. I was 31 when I met him, and felt like he was just IT. Now I have to find someone else i like just as much? LAME! And even my friends who are in LTRs, they met in college, so very young, too.
Nexus One Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 The pressure to make money and pay the bills has become very high on both men and women over time in my opinion. I have male colleagues lamenting about the fact they have to work so much and want to be doing something with their partner or spend time on their hobbies. We're talking about men who are at the office at 8AM and are still there at 9PM and are working weekends. So the time to meet women has become increasingly scarce. Personally, I blame inflation. Just look at the housing costs in some of the world's major cities. Bloody f*cking insane. So you either get into a tiny apartment or you work your guts out for something bigger where you can raise kids. Yet men need their own housing. Men who have their own housing are according to research said to be 500% more attractive to women. Inflation is going so fast that a 100 years ago you could buy an average house for $200. Today that's $225000. That's a factor of over a 1000. Now you will not see that kind of inflation in the official numbers, they'll never show you that. But if you don't believe me, ask the very old people and they'll tell you. Everyone on this forum that works knows that their wage did not and does not rise as fast as the real inflation. We're being f*cked, but nobody dares to say so out loud. Just look at Europe and Japan. Fewer and fewer people are getting married and fewer and fewer people are having kids. It's up to the point that populations in those areas are declining. In Japan the work ethic plays an even bigger role. I'm not from Japan or live there, but this picture says a 1000 words: http://i.imgur.com/CoJy8.jpg That's our future in the West right there. Those who drive inflation forward make sure it will be so.
carhill Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I think you would find a similar sampling of men, but the difference is, there men aren't looking for a relationship. At ages 30-35, men here aren't in the "settling down" mindset yet.That's reasonable. Similarly single for different reasons. When I look around here, at my neighbors, I see people who have lived on the same land for multiple generations. I've lived here where I was born for all of my life, even though I've seen a lot of the world. There's a 'settled' feeling here that I don't get when in Manhattan (as an example). What I sense from women I've met in the big cities (Chicago, NYC, London, Frankfurt, etc) is that they love the 'ambiance' and energy of the big city and desire the 'settled' atmosphere found in a small town, wrt their relationships. IMO, the difficult factor in that is the men, as you've noted. Ambitious men seeking their fame and fortune aren't as likely to want to settle down nor do they prioritize their relationships equal to or beyond their ambition, rather generally far below. Like a friend of mine who used to work on Madison Ave. told me, it was just one crazy party for 15-20 years and nothing else mattered. Women, money, 'things'; it was like a drug. He's now retired in his mid-60's and, after a stint in Connecticut, is now living quietly with his wife in North Carolina. She was also a NYC girl, from Queens. He was the kind of man, back in his 20's-30's, that you're meeting. Blew up one marriage and went through a string of ladies until his mid-late 40's, simply because he could. IMO, if your career is portable and no family (like an elderly parent) keeps you there, try somewhere else for awhile. You can always go 'home'.
tigressA Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 College is the one "easy" place to meet somebody, and I think a lot of people know that. There was (and still is, in some places) a phenomenon of women going to college just to snag a husband. I didn't even have to think about having a boyfriend and one would practically fall into my lap. It's much more difficult now to meet not just someone, but someone you like who also likes you. Argh.
zengirl Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I think I've heard about NYC being a difficult city to date in. Especially for women. Especially in, say, their 30s. I think there may have even been a TV show about it. . . . I think it really is location. Especially if they're looking for men who are equally successful. There is just a good slice of successful, NYC type men who don't want relationships yet at that time. Money types, especially. I'm so glad I'm mostly attracted to computer nerds and lived in Southern metro cities. I've never had this issue.
tigressA Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I think it really is location. Especially if they're looking for men who are equally successful. There is just a good slice of successful, NYC type men who don't want relationships yet at that time. Money types, especially. I'm so glad I'm mostly attracted to computer nerds and lived in Southern metro cities. I've never had this issue. I've dated a handful of computer nerds, and in my experience they're just as unwilling to devote time to making a relationship a priority on par with their career. Lately I've been finding guys who put their career ambitions above everything else, regardless of the field...I think I would have a much easier time meeting someone if I focused on guys who are still in school or are willing to make a relationship a priority. The latter has been impossible for me to find.
zengirl Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I've dated a handful of computer nerds, and in my experience they're just as unwilling to devote time to making a relationship a priority on par with their career. Lately I've been finding guys who put their career ambitions above everything else, regardless of the field...I think I would have a much easier time meeting someone if I focused on guys who are still in school or are willing to make a relationship a priority. The latter has been impossible for me to find. Well, then our experiences don't line up, or we definite priorities differently. I expect a guy to have priorities in his career AND in his relationship (I do the same) and to see how the two areas can be mutually beneficial. A stable relationship helps with a stable career and vice versa. I suppose if you're going through men who aren't "stabilized" at work, I could see the issue. Most tech industries, here at least, are very stable, and the men don't have to worry much about work after college -- beyond their personal goals with work, but no major instability -- so I find it factors in less. YMMV.
EasyHeart Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 It's perfectly normal and healthy for men (and women, for that matter) to prioritize their careers in their 20s and 30s. You have a fairly small window during that time to make a name for yourself or it's never going to happen. But it doesn't last forever. If you're eager to get married and the guys your age aren't, your answer is pretty simple: date older guys. There's a reason most women marry men who are older than they are.
Author pandagirl Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 IMO, if your career is portable and no family (like an elderly parent) keeps you there, try somewhere else for awhile. You can always go 'home'. Yeah, I was actually planning on moving back west last year.. but I met my ex so I stayed. I'm tentatively planning on moving again at the end of this year. It's weird, I love ambition. It's something I am very attracted to. I just don't like how ambition often goes hand-in-hand with other unsavory characteristics. I feel like I have figured out how to balance work/life, but not many other people have. I think it really is location. Especially if they're looking for men who are equally successful. There is just a good slice of successful, NYC type men who don't want relationships yet at that time. Money types, especially. I'm so glad I'm mostly attracted to computer nerds and lived in Southern metro cities. I've never had this issue. I mean, is this the problem? That successful woman want someone as or more successful than them, which just screws us over?
Nexus One Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I mean, is this the problem? That successful woman want someone as or more successful than them, which just screws us over? It could be one of the factors. The higher the income you require of a man, the smaller is the pool of men you'll be able to fish in. You'll be competing fiercely against other women for that same relatively small pool of men.
sumdude Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 It's no different with my group of friends. Guys I've known most of my life. We grew up just outside of D.C. in a VA suburb. This are has become more and more citylike over the last decade. Almost all of us would love to be in a good committed relationship. We're all 40 - 45. 10 good attractive guys, only 3 are married at the moment. M - Married 10 years, one adopted child. J - Divorced and single now, she lost it and left him. He takes care of their boy most of the time. P - Single, a few LTRs just ended one. He's a commitment phobe. F - Single. A couple LTRs. W - Single, a few LTRs, Closest he came to marriage he realized she had been unfaithful most of the relationship. Homeowner, has his stuff together. P2 - Married 15 years. Homeowner. Has a 12 year old boy. B - Single. Trying to get his life back together after effing it up with addiction. J2 - Married 15 years. Has been with his wife since college. They have a 10 year old boy. Homeowner. P3 - Single for a long time. Homeowner. ME - Divorced and mostly single for 4 years. My ex just took off one day for another man. No Kids. Homeowner. I lose more and more faith in marriage every year. But I haven't given up hope yet.
Emilia Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 location has something to do with it (ie in smaller towns people have to settle down because don't have options) but it's mainly about the types of man you choose to date. in my office - I work in the City of London in a very male orientated environment - most men are married. That's because they are not Londoners and have a more chilled attitude. I have never dated a Londoner and have no desire to, I have either dated foreigners or country boys. most of them wanted relationships. so it's where he is from, what his values are, not where he lives. widen your circle of types rather than just numbers
mo mo Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Hey so umm I'm in the NYC area. I'm 30... hook a brotha up!!!
refurb Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I mean, is this the problem? That successful woman want someone as or more successful than them, which just screws us over? I think you may have something there... A friend is in a top business school and the male-female dynamics are incredible. The male/female breakdown is about 70/30. The first year, the girls love it, they can be extra picky, the guys hate it. Then the summer internship happens, everyone moves to a big city. The guys get a ton of attention (bigger pool of single women, big $$ jobs) and the girls realize that a lot of the guys they want (higher status) are already married and actually quite rare in the real world. Then everyone comes back for the 2nd year and everything gets flipped on its head. The guys don't pay any attention to the girls (since they know they'll be in demand once they go back to the big city) and the girls start to get desperate, hitting on the guys that they couldn't care less about a year before. I think one of the big issues is that each sex is looking for something different. Women want higher status guys, while guys don't really care. The women have the biological clock ticking and the guys don't. A highly successful guy at 40 can still marry a 30 yr old and have a family. Once a woman gets up in years the guys start to wonder if she can provide a family. Quite the interesting social dynamic to be honest. RF
Author pandagirl Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 I think you may have something there... A friend is in a top business school and the male-female dynamics are incredible. The male/female breakdown is about 70/30. The first year, the girls love it, they can be extra picky, the guys hate it. Then the summer internship happens, everyone moves to a big city. The guys get a ton of attention (bigger pool of single women, big $$ jobs) and the girls realize that a lot of the guys they want (higher status) are already married and actually quite rare in the real world. Then everyone comes back for the 2nd year and everything gets flipped on its head. The guys don't pay any attention to the girls (since they know they'll be in demand once they go back to the big city) and the girls start to get desperate, hitting on the guys that they couldn't care less about a year before. I think one of the big issues is that each sex is looking for something different. Women want higher status guys, while guys don't really care. The women have the biological clock ticking and the guys don't. A highly successful guy at 40 can still marry a 30 yr old and have a family. Once a woman gets up in years the guys start to wonder if she can provide a family. Quite the interesting social dynamic to be honest. RF Bottom line: it sucks to have ovaries.
Disillusioned Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 So, I very quickly did a mental survey of 20 of my girlfriends and their relationship status. Here's what I've found: Location: NYC 20 Women Ages 28-33 -3 married (all are 33, and met their hubbies very young) -2 long-term relationships (both are 28) -15 single (10 are ages 30-32; 4 are 28-29) Now every single one of these ladies is attractive, slim, employed, and well-educated. Of course, their dynamics range the gamut, but they're all pleasant people with good, unique personalities. They're all very social people, so they're out meeting people, and many do online dating. Yet, most of these single women have been single for a long time, 2-3 years. Of course, there are flings and hook ups, but nothing of substance. What gives? I'm 32. I don't want to ride the inertia of this.... That doesn't count.
Disillusioned Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Bottom line: it sucks to have ovaries. Nonononono. It sucks to be male.
fishtaco Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 When I look around here, at my neighbors, I see people who have lived on the same land for multiple generations. When you said move to Cali (I assume you mean California and not Cali Colombia), and it'll be different from NYC, I was like huh? But then I realized I think maybe you live in different part of California. I'm in the Los Angeles area. It's the same here. Big city dating. Never tried to date in NYC, but I bet dating in Los Angeles is just as difficult. Superficial, games, everyone is disposable. But it is what it is. I have a good job here, I like the weather, I'd rather deal with dating problems.
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