northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 was this based on the washington post article? i read that. while the author seemed a bit obnoxious, I actually AGREED with her parenting style. asian mothers tend to churn out accomplished kids. i always wished my own parents had pushed harder growing up. they had a very hands off approach. i'll be a total pushy parent when it comes to my own kids.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 OK, reading up on this more the author takes her parenting style further than I think is psychologically healthy for a child's development. But between the two extremes, a lazy, soft parent and a drill sergeant parent, I think the latter is healthier in the long term, even if it causes some emotional scars.
sb129 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Precisely. The so-called geniuses who support such an extremist traditional Chinese upbringing and education are also, for the most part, lacking of true 'intelligence', as defined by the ability to produce rational thought. They cannot develop and defend an opinion of their own soundly, have no creativity, and are unable to solve a logical problem which falls beyond their scope of intense practice. They are the 'maths whizzes' who cannot solve Einstein's riddle, the 'music prodigies' who have never truly lost themselves in a piece of musical beauty... and the 'professors', like Amy, who despite being in a profession where open-mindedness and thinking outside the box is encouraged, cannot see any other POV but their own. t. This is a great point E. I enjoy hearing your viewpoint on this topic. I notice some differences, but I chalked them up to different ideas of what defines success. Such as the piano/violin thing. I don't identify knowing how to play those instruments (or any instrument really) as a necessary component of success. My husband and his sis had to take piano lessons. Maybe it had something to do with my husband and his ability to be successful (he no longer plays), but it didn't do anything for his sister. And I believe in the carrot dangling, where as it would seem this woman doesn't. Its do or consequences. Instead I say do and receive (something he wants), don't do and face consequences. I feel that is more how life works for adults. Things you want require hard work. If you worked hard at your job and had nothing to show for the effort - wouldn't you go looking for another job? I'm also more about him knowing he can achieve things he wants to do and also capable of creating options as he needs them rather than forcing him to achieve everything possible. But I won't rob him of a childhood in the process. This is my philosophy as well. As always- there is middle ground.
Star Gazer Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 OK, reading up on this more the author takes her parenting style further than I think is psychologically healthy for a child's development. But between the two extremes, a lazy, soft parent and a drill sergeant parent, I think the latter is healthier in the long term, even if it causes some emotional scars. So you're advocating psychological damage to young children? For what purpose? My mom was what you would describe as a lazy, soft parent. I'd take that over emotional scars any day. Who wants to grow up to be a robot?
sb129 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 You turned out OK SG. You work in one of the "golden" professions. Hows your violin?
Star Gazer Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Hows your violin? After beating it over enough heads, it doesn't quite sound right anymore. Hmm.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) So you're advocating psychological damage to young children? For what purpose? My mom was what you would describe as a lazy, soft parent. I'd take that over emotional scars any day. Who wants to grow up to be a robot? As I said, I think Amy takes it too far, but in my opinion being pushy in moderation with a kid is a good parenting style. As she writes a lot kids are naturally lazy and if left to their own devices will not realize their potential. Sure there are some children who can motivate themselves because they are born with that temperament, but not most. Many people's natural inclination is to be lazy, and from what I've observed the Asian parenting style stomps that out of kids pretty fast before they develop lifelong bad habits. The downside seems to be stress, but imo stress isn't such a bad thing if it allows you accomplish stuff. Some of the things the Asian mothers push are rather ridiculous, though. Like I wouldn't insist that a kid choose between violin and piano. I also don't think kids should be forced to play an instrument if they lack talent or interest. If they do have both then I'd have them pick an instrument they like and practice that. The way I'd parent is to figure out where my kid's natural ability lies and pushing them hard to develop that rather than insisting they stretch themselves thin. Edited January 19, 2011 by northern_sky
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 So you're advocating psychological damage to young children? For what purpose? My mom was what you would describe as a lazy, soft parent. I'd take that over emotional scars any day. Who wants to grow up to be a robot? Oh, yeah. I'd MUCH rather know my children actually HAD a childhood over having them turn into little robot versions of whatever idea of perfection someone drilled into my head.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Oh, yeah. I'd MUCH rather know my children actually HAD a childhood over having them turn into little robot versions of whatever idea of perfection someone drilled into my head. there's a whole grey area between the two. you can push a kid without turning them into a robot.
sally4sara Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 So you're advocating psychological damage to young children? For what purpose? My mom was what you would describe as a lazy, soft parent. I'd take that over emotional scars any day. Who wants to grow up to be a robot? Well, from what I've seen of myself and my friends, the varying parenting styles among us - every kid has a gripe or two about how their parents handled raising them. Its almost become trendy to claim a troubled childhood! Even people I envied for their parental relationship claim emotional scarring from their parent's style! My own mother was very strict, but she didn't put any effort into my actual success in life or take interest in my talents being developed. And what she chose to be strict over was some of the most pointless issues when you consider other more important ones she cared very little about. I fled her home having just turned 17, not even knowing how to file taxes, apply for college or drive! But I knew the damn bible backward and forward. A bit of knowledge that has never gotten me anything but a few trivia questions correctly answered! I remember calling when I was getting married for the first time to see if my brother could come and hearing her say: "Oh, you're pregnant aren't you?" I wasn't, but to her it was the only reason why anyone would want to marry me. She is still this way every chance she gets. She pulls off the wall imaginary transgressions out of thin air to hassle me about. The last one was that I'd lied to her about selling my car before I moved. I have no idea. I didn't sell it before I moved, I drove here in it and it was a car I'd paid off myself so I can't imagine why I'd need to lie about what I did with it either way. The time before was when I had decided to move, she was all over me to give her my son to raise instead of taking him with me! I finished with her for good in this last year because it always tears me up and takes a few weeks to stop twisting over.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I guess this also connects to one of my life philosophies. I was a high achiever as a kid and teen, but have struggled with underachievement as an adult, mostly as a result of really, really bad habits (though I have improved). I'm very driven, but I get in my own way. Because I'm naturally disorganized, I wish my parents had been more involved growing up. I'm not blaming them, because I know they meant well and my temperament is also a huge issue, but they were extremely uninvolved to the point of being almost absent. There are a lot of people like me who are driven but also prone to disorganization, and from what I know about psychology I truly believe natural habits can be nipped in the bud early in child development. I believe that if somebody is smart and driven they will be happiest with a life that is a bit stressful, even at times a struggle, if it allows them to achieve in an area where they have passion. Having passion is key. Robots just grind through stuff they don't care about. The Asian parenting style gives kids *the tools* to achieve in anything, and then when the kid turns into an adult they can figure out what they're passionate about, where to apply those tools. It's sort of like they get through the grind work as a kid, which opens up all these doors to them as an adult. I know a lot of people probably disagree with my attitudes on this, and I'm not saying I'm objectively right and you're wrong -- it's just what I believe. Edited January 19, 2011 by northern_sky
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 there's a whole grey area between the two. you can push a kid without turning them into a robot. Yeah, like the gray area where, say, just a few itty bitty emotional scars are inflicted, right?
Star Gazer Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Shadow/Sky, our backgrounds in this regard are very similar. I was also a gifted and talented child and teen. I am driven and yet also pretty disorganized (I have to constantly work at this), and my single mother never pushed me. She rarely even asked what I was learning in school, and certainly never pressured me to do anything. Sometimes I really thought she could care less. When I wanted to drop piano and gymnastics at 10 (things I BEGGED to do at first), she shrugged and said "okay." If you or anyone else is struggling as an adult given how well you did as a child and teen, it's your own fault, not your parents'. At some point you're going to have to stop pointing fingers for your faults.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Shadow/Sky, our backgrounds in this regard are very similar. I was also a gifted and talented child and teen. I am driven and yet also pretty disorganized (I have to constantly work at this), and my single mother never pushed me. She rarely even asked what I was learning in school, and certainly never pressured me to do anything. Sometimes I really thought she could care less. When I wanted to drop piano and gymnastics at 10 (things I BEGGED to do at first), she shrugged and said "okay." If you or anyone else is struggling as an adult given how well you did as a child and teen, it's your own fault, not your parents'. At some point you're going to have to stop pointing fingers for your faults. You can say it's my fault or hypothetical person's fault, but at the end of the day if one parenting style successfully stomps the bad habits out of most kids (which it does in my observation), while another produces mixed results, I'd put my money on the former.
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I'm sorry, but "grind work" doesn't sound anything like what I'd want any of my children involved in. School work, sure, but forcing things like piano lessons down their throats while denying them the opportunity to perform in a play is over-the-top controlling, belittling, and demoralizing.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Oh, boy. Come on, I didn't mean it literally.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I'm sorry, but "grind work" doesn't sound anything like what I'd want any of my children involved in. School work, sure, but forcing things like piano lessons down their throats while denying them the opportunity to perform in a play is over-the-top controlling, belittling, and demoralizing. I agree that insisting that all kids take up an instrument and no sleepover rule are ridiculous.
Star Gazer Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 You can say it's my fault or hypothetical person's fault, but at the end of the day if one parenting style successfully stomps the bad habits out of most kids (which it does in my observation), while another produces mixed results, I'd put my money on the former. It may stamp bad habits out of KIDS, but you haven't been a kid for 9 years. I wouldn't go blaming your parents for how you are NOW, as a grown woman, when while under their wings you did flourish and succeed in school. The habits you have now are of your own making, really. Same for all of us, regardless of what those habits are.
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Come on, I didn't mean it literally. Sorry. Just could NOT resist.
Star Gazer Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I agree that insisting that all kids take up an instrument and no sleepover rule are ridiculous. Okay, that's good to hear. But it confuses me. What sort of parenting style/tactics do you think are worthwhile that also cause emotional scars?
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 The thing about this kind of parenting is that the parent is forcing the child to be who THEY want them to be rather than helping them become the best version of the person they already are. Sick, really.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 It may stamp bad habits out of KIDS, but you haven't been a kid for 9 years. I wouldn't go blaming your parents for how you are NOW, as a grown woman, when while under their wings you did flourish and succeed in school. The habits you have now are of your own making, really. Same for all of us, regardless of what those habits are. This isn't about me. I'm not going to get into a debate analyzing why I am how I am. I have observed, however that one parenting style is much more successful in helping ADULTS achieve, and so that's the approach I would take (in moderation) with my kid.
northern_sky Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 The thing about this kind of parenting is that the parent is forcing the child to be who THEY want them to be rather than helping them become the best version of the person they already are. Sick, really. What about a parent who recognizes where her child's strength and interest lies and pushing the child in that area?
donnamaybe Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 What about a parent who recognizes where her child's strength and interest lies and pushing the child in that area?I don't think the style of parenting being discussed in this thread has anything to do with caring about a child's interest. It's all about the parents' interest. As for pushing, I feel a parent should enable their children to do their best in whatever they are doing. A child's interest can change multiple times by the time they are an adult. Why force anything on them? Yes, I make sure my son takes care of his homework, but I am NOT going to push him into doing anything. He was obsessively in love with trains from the age of 1 to 8. He has absolutely NO interest any longer in becoming a train engineer. Should I have forced him to turn his attentions that way in his early years and forced him to remain on that path? No way.
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