a different sort of marriage

[loripuff]

Before I explain the situation, I'm not here for any religious comments on marriage or any homophobic rhetoric, I'm here for some persepective and to uncover things I hadn't considered. I've been beaten up on this forum before, so if you have anything less than constructive to say, I don't want it. No abuse, just stuff of use.

 

My best friend is a gay man and I am a straight woman. We have talked off an on about having a child together ever since I asked him 18 months ago if he would consider being a sperm donor if I decide to do IVF. I have since decided that I want my child to have two involved parents if possible, and have put aside having a child for now. Both of our romantic lives have been unsatisfying to date. We travel together, share family holidays together, are probably more open with each other than 95% of other marriages out there. and we genuinely love each other. I asked him today if he would ever consider getting married to me when we were older so that we would take care of each other and enjoy our golden years together. I didn't say what age I was thinking of. (at least 60 years old in my mind, at least). He said 38. I asked if he was joking or is it because he very much wants a child? He hemmed and hawed a bit about it. He said he is actually a little serious about it. The marriage would be a partnership, but open. I can't see either one of us giving up sex, nor would I want either of us to do so, because it would be an unnatural restriction on our relationship with each other and ourselves. It would be commitment, loyalty, caring, and family, BUT, it isn't the full enchilada.

 

Here are my concerns:

 

1. One or both of us would have serious regrets? I would marry him...it would be a commitment with vows of loyalty, love, and honor...just not sexual fidelity. I take it serious and know that he would take his vows seriously as well. In other words, I don't see either of us getting a divorce once we've made our promise to each other.

 

2. I am a little in love with him (romantic, not sexual) a holdover from before I knew he was gay. He knows this and we've talked about it several times, but what if I can't handle it once we build a life together? I've since had a very deep love relationship with another man that has ended in heartbreak for me and my love for my friend wasn't a factor.

 

3. There is a lifetime between 38 and 60 in my mind. Would we be missing out on anything? I hate to think I'd resent him or be a source of resentment for him.

 

4. Do I want the full enchilada marriage? Sure! We both want it, but are realistic and wonder if it isn't in the cards for us to find it with other partners. Is this "good enough"? It has love, family, friendship, respect, commitment, nonsexual intimacy, caring, and we would honor each other with eyes wide open. I would be proud to be his wife and share a life with him. He is a good man in every way, we "get" each other, he's smart, would be an amazing father, we have the same values, we embrace each others imperfections and and can really be ourselves with one another....but, it isn't everything.

 

5. Are my concerns any different than that for a traditional marriage? The what ifs? Is this the right thing? It could be great, but it could be a huge mistake....isn't any marriage a leap of faith?

 

Again, I only want people to bring up points that I haven't addressed or give me another perspective based on their experience with marriage. No judgment, just ideas.

 

Thanks!

Loripuff

[Neutrino]

Hi Loripuff, by what you're telling here about narrow-minded bone-heads giving you a hard time - you must really want this child and this is likely to make you a better parent (IMO).

 

Let me go through the points you raised :

 

1. You and your best friend seem to have already a non-conventional relationship, why do you feel the need to cover this relationship up with the most conventional act a couple can perform ? Had it been me - I would go for a partner's contract - where you can also address your non-conventional needs and agreements.

 

2. Although you say it is irrelevant - you bring this topic up here - are you hiding a tiny hope that one day, magically - the nature of your relationship will change...?

 

3. Anybody has the natural right to change their minds at any given time and go a different route... This will remain the same whether you make the commitment at 38 or at 60.

 

4. Important point - you are basically admitting this is not what you really want - so in fact this is already your plan-B.... I would think it over long and hard - you never know what a day brings.

 

5. A lot of things we do in life are a gamble in a way refer to point 3 plus low-probability events that are not in your (or his) control at all.

 

 

I would like to add : choosing your best friend as a father rather than just an anonymous donor has some great advantages : you know some of his medical history, genetic background and other factors that are likely to be inherited genetically - go figure what chromosomes you would end up with by anonymous donation... not to mention he may be involved in the child's life.

 

Under any circumstances, getting a child is baggage for life - I find this is the one decision you can never really go back on once is done. So I think your wonders (regardless of the situation) are very normal.

 

I think you should consider the issue of having a child on your own completely separate from the issue of this non-conventional relationship - those are two completely different decisions.

 

And last - never be afraid of kicking conventionality's ass....

 

[Eeyore79]

How old are you, and do you want children? I want kids, and I'm fully prepared to have one by myself if I hit 38 and don't have a serious long-term partner. In that situation there's something to be said for having a stable friend who could father your child and help to take care of it. It obviously isn't as good as having a proper bf/husband, but if you weren't lucky enough to find someone then it's better to have a child with a friend than to have IVF all by yourself.

 

I think a pact like this could be a good thing if you're rapidly approaching 38, but it's a bad idea if you take it seriously at a young age. If you're still young, it's likely that one of you will meet someone and marry them, so the other person will still be alone and will be upset about the pact being broken.

 

You also have the issue of what happens if you tie yourself to this person and then later on one of you meets someone who you really love - obviously you'll break up because it isn't a real relationship, it's just a relationship of convenience - then the other person is left high and dry.

 

So my advice is this: If you're young, forget about it and discuss it when you're almost 38 and running out of time to meet someone and have kids. If you're almost 38, consider it as a last resort, an alternative to not having children at all. Even if you do it, think about it as an arrangement which allows you to have a child which you couldn't otherwise have had, not as a permanent relationship - expect that one or both of you might eventually meet someone else and move on to a real relationship.

[Stung]

One of my best friends is also a gay male, and we had a few conversations a while back about having a child together if I got to my late 30s and wasn't married/had no children. He has a husband he's been with for many many years, so the subject of marriage between us never came up, but I gave the idea of a partnership with them as a couple some serious thought; essentially we would have used my friends' sperm and the baby would have had me as a mom and two daddies, and we would have made a pact to live together in one house while the child was a baby and then live near each other until it was grown.

 

I still think that would have been a perfectly viable way to go about having a kid, but it never came to pass as I am 35 now and married and have a son with my husband. I feel a little sad sometimes as I know playing with my son can be bittersweet for my friends, but they have put their names into the hat for adoption and I can only wish them luck and give them a ringing character endorsement.

 

If my friend had been single I still would have considered the same deal, but I never would have married him, at least not in my 30s with the serious intention of raising our kids together and staying married forever. I always knew I wanted to be married someday to someone who I had a romantic and sexual connection with, on top of them being my best friend and father of my children. And that is exactly what I have now, and it is wonderful.

 

Now, I am not against platonic partnership marriages per se, other than that I didn't particularly want that for my life. They can be a big help to some people, and I can certainly see the appeal in being united with your best friend and growing old with them. I can see trouble brewing in your personal arrangement, however. First, that you saw this as a backup plan for someone to grow old with, not as a primary relationship. Part of you knows that you want love, and that it will be much much harder to find a man who loves you if you are married to another man, even if he's just your friend. It's going to really cut down on the number of guys who will stick around and develop a serious relationship with you, if there is already a man who can call himself your husband and hold that kind of primacy in your relationship. Secondly, you are already a little bit in love with this friend. It's frankly hard to imagine anything more awkward and painful than being married to someone you love who doesn't love you back in 'that way' and is conducting his romantic life openly and elsewhere. I know you brought this up yourself, but it's the biggest stalling point for me in this scenario; in my opinion, trying to forge a platonic marriage with someone you actually are a little bit in love with is simply a recipe for disaster. Since your friend knows this dynamic exists, I'm surprised at him for suggesting the marriage thing right now, it's a bit selfish of him.

 

My husband knows about the tentative plan I had drawn up with my friends, and he is not threatened by it, he understands it. My friends call themselves my sons uncles and we all hang out fairly often. If I had met him after I already had a child with them, he would have been okay with that; he has a daughter from a previous relationship himself, we would simply have made a slightly more blended family than we have now and had even more complicated holiday arrangements. If I had been married to one of them, however, I would never have really gotten to know my husband at all; while unconventional relationships don't bother him, he's not the kind of man who is comfortable dating somebody's else's legal wife or playing second-fiddle in a relationship forever. So that's my point of perspective.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Stung

[loripuff]

Thank all for your thoughtful replies. To answer some of your questions. I'm 36, and my friend is 35. We are talking about three years of wiggle room where a lot could happen. Still, it was interesting to see my concerns mirrored all of you. I am concerned that I still have feelings for him, and although my feelings aren't really of a sexual nature, they are of a romantic nature (fine distinction, I know). I have had a relationship with a man recently which shows me that one aspect of a marriage that I would really miss out on with my friend...the intimacy that comes with a sexual relationship, not the sex itself....I love laying in bed and talking with my partner when we both are semi naked, have bed head, stinky breath and can talk about everything under the sun, hug, kiss, snuggle. That kind of intimacy would be sorely lacking...we wouldn't share a bedroom or have those moments. We do share a bed when we travel, but it isn't the same. It makes me teary thinking of how I might be resigning myself to a life without it. Do I wish he wasn't gay....sure I do, and he wishes it as well, but it is who he is and we are both working on acceptance. (I did not know him as a gay man for the first year we knew each other and he had been ending a marriage with a woman, so I was surprised and am still working on what was a HUGE paradigm shift for both of us.) This wouldn't be an issue if I knew his sexuality from the start, but I understand how difficult is has been for him and he knows of my struggles with his sexuality as well. (His sexuality, not gays in general--I've had a lesbian roommate and several gay male good friends since high school, so it's very comfortable for me...even more comfortable than straight male friends).

I feel bad saying this, but as I've alluded to, this is my Plan B and it would be for him as well, but we want children, love each other, and accept that this isn't either of our first choices.

A partnership contract is something I hadn't thought of...I said marriage because we would both want that level of committment to each other and our family. I would want to co-habitate to raise our child. Maybe it's old fashioned of me, but I want to be a wife and he wants to be a husband. Would our marriage be a happy one, I think so. Would it be totally satisfying, no. Is it enough? I don't know. I don't have a family since cutting them out of my life for a long history of abuse, so having a husband is very seductive for me, especially knowing that I will have a man in my life who I can depend on, who I love, respect, and want to take care of for the rest of my life. I think in a lot of ways our marriage would be much more honest and open than lots of marriages I've seen, but it wont be perfect. I would say I'm about 80% sure that it would be a good decision. But that still leaves a whopping 20% uncertainty coupled with sadness at what this marriage would lack. I'm glad to have 3 years, but as I've aged, three years flies by fast.

I do know this. We both would have individuals and couples counseling prior to a commitment. I think if we do this at age 38, I would want to be pregnant prior to making the commitment since the child would be the compelling factor for me. If no kid, I think it would be better to wait for another 20 years before considering a formal commitment because our lives would be going not necessarily in the same direction, no matter how close we are. I don't want either of us to miss out on the love relationship of our lives by rushing into anything. Having a kid would change our life course to a more integrated one...i.e. living together, vacationing together, parenting together.

Again, I appreciate your thoughtful and non-judgemental replies. You've given me more to think about. The man and I are going on a vacation in two weeks and we are going to discuss things a bit more. I'll keep you posted if anything develops. Have a great week!

[Eeyore79]

If you are really toeing the line in terms of your fertility, you could always have a child together without getting married. However if I was going to have a child without a husband, I'd have the child by IVF purely for reasons of simplicity, i.e. if I met a partner later on then there wouldn't be another (gay) man in the family picture.

[KikiW]

I think this is a fantastic idea to consider. The only thing that keeps popping into my head though is "what if one of you finds the love of your life?"

 

Imagine this scenario - you and he have worked out all the details and contract to co-habitate and raise the baby together etc etc etc. Things go swimmingly until you round the corner and bump into the most amazing man you've ever known, plus he offers you incredible sexual intimacy, something you will never have with your friend. Do you go out on dates with this new guy? Do you ditch him because you already have your family unit and deny yourself that intimacy that is lacking? Do you end up divorcing your friend because the new guy can offer the complete package?

 

Now switch roles. You and he have the contract and HE finds the love of his life. Would you be ok with him going out on dates with his new friend? How would you feel left home to care for the child you bore while he's out at a bar or club living la vida loca? What if he came to you and said he wanted a divorce because his new friend can offer EVERYTHING he's wanted (including that intimacy you two cannot share)?

 

You have to look at this from every possible ugly angle. So many people just see all the positives and downplay the negatives until it's biting them in the butt. And when you involve a child, it's even worse if things go to pot.

[AmIWrong]

You should really think more about what kind of life you are setting your son or daughter up for. Are you both prepared to be honest with this child when he/she is old enough to understand, or do you plan to decieve him/her forever? I don't know what kind of impact either scenario would have on your relationship with your son or daughter, but you can bet it can't be good...or can it? My best advice is to give a lot more consideration to how this may or may not affect the child. I don't know if premarital counceling can be helpful here, but perhaps.

[phillyfan]

Before I explain the situation, I'm not here for any religious comments on marriage or any homophobic rhetoric, I'm here for some persepective and to uncover things I hadn't considered. I've been beaten up on this forum before, so if you have anything less than constructive to say, I don't want it. No abuse, just stuff of use.

 

My best friend is a gay man and I am a straight woman. We have talked off an on about having a child together ever since I asked him 18 months ago if he would consider being a sperm donor if I decide to do IVF. I have since decided that I want my child to have two involved parents if possible, and have put aside having a child for now. Both of our romantic lives have been unsatisfying to date. We travel together, share family holidays together, are probably more open with each other than 95% of other marriages out there. and we genuinely love each other. I asked him today if he would ever consider getting married to me when we were older so that we would take care of each other and enjoy our golden years together. I didn't say what age I was thinking of. (at least 60 years old in my mind, at least). He said 38. I asked if he was joking or is it because he very much wants a child? He hemmed and hawed a bit about it. He said he is actually a little serious about it. The marriage would be a partnership, but open. I can't see either one of us giving up sex, nor would I want either of us to do so, because it would be an unnatural restriction on our relationship with each other and ourselves. It would be commitment, loyalty, caring, and family, BUT, it isn't the full enchilada.

 

Here are my concerns:

 

1. One or both of us would have serious regrets? I would marry him...it would be a commitment with vows of loyalty, love, and honor...just not sexual fidelity. I take it serious and know that he would take his vows seriously as well. In other words, I don't see either of us getting a divorce once we've made our promise to each other.

 

2. I am a little in love with him (romantic, not sexual) a holdover from before I knew he was gay. He knows this and we've talked about it several times, but what if I can't handle it once we build a life together? I've since had a very deep love relationship with another man that has ended in heartbreak for me and my love for my friend wasn't a factor.

 

3. There is a lifetime between 38 and 60 in my mind. Would we be missing out on anything? I hate to think I'd resent him or be a source of resentment for him.

 

4. Do I want the full enchilada marriage? Sure! We both want it, but are realistic and wonder if it isn't in the cards for us to find it with other partners. Is this "good enough"? It has love, family, friendship, respect, commitment, nonsexual intimacy, caring, and we would honor each other with eyes wide open. I would be proud to be his wife and share a life with him. He is a good man in every way, we "get" each other, he's smart, would be an amazing father, we have the same values, we embrace each others imperfections and and can really be ourselves with one another....but, it isn't everything.

 

5. Are my concerns any different than that for a traditional marriage? The what ifs? Is this the right thing? It could be great, but it could be a huge mistake....isn't any marriage a leap of faith?

 

Again, I only want people to bring up points that I haven't addressed or give me another perspective based on their experience with marriage. No judgment, just ideas.

 

Thanks!

Loripuff

 

DUDE I mean this in a really nice way, but your plan is f*cked up, this post could be a lot shorter- 'i am so desparate to get married I am about to marry a gay dude'. Seriously girl, LOL. Don't f*ck up ur life, sooner or lata, Mr Big (yea I watch SATC lol) will come along, dont let bein lonely for a yr or 2 make u mess up the rest of ur life.

 

Plus the gay dude will meet someone he loves at some point and u sound into him which isnt cool, itll b a mess also dont bring a kid into it!

 

Man this sounds like a soap opera good luck girl

[BettyBoop]

I thought about the child's upbringing in a marriage as well...you know kids sometimes want their parents to kiss each other when they're too young to be grossed out by it? What if all those kisses lead to your feelings growing deeper and you might end up in heartbreak?

What if the child thinks that is what a healthy marriage should be like? Parents who do not show intimacy (other than sex I mean of course) or share beds? Children are not stupid...they will sense the "mommy and daddy are not *in love* with each other". They might become unhappy and think something is wrong but won't know what?

I'm no child expert so I don't know, but consider it.

 

I also thought about what the others mentioned about meeting the love of your life while in the "marriage" - you might even miss the love of your life because he sees you're wearing a ring and thinks you're unavailable - or won't understand when he finds out it is a "sham" marriage.

 

I would miss having loving, intimate moments with a husband too much to marry a gay guy, personally.

 

Good luck with whatever your decision - but think hard about it before you do anything.

[whichwayisup]

Sounds good on paper, doesn't it.. Problem is, emotions and feelings get in the way and you two could really fall for eachother or one of you for the other. Problem is, he's gay. You are straight. Eventually someone WILL come into your life, and/or his life and things will be complication. This isn't a 'forever' thing. You can talk about open marriage all you want, but one day he will meet a man, want to live with him, start a life with him. Or you might fall inlove and want to live with/marry have a life with someone else too. Really think this through before you two go ahead and do this. Get some counselling in too, because what if you do end up having his child. You two become "family" yet what's it based on? Not committment, not romantic love.. I just see a future of pain at some point in time.

[jenifer1972]

Why lock your self in legally in this situation? Just carry on as friends. You will get hurt. I think subconsciously you hope your love can turn him straight. One of my best friends is gay. I suffer no delusions he can be turned and would never try

[loripuff]

Thank you to those with thoughtful comments. I'm didn't preface my thread by "telling people how to answer" or being "defensive" because I don't want to hear what people have to say (I'm asking aren't I?), but I'm not interested in thoughts on parenting in this relationship, people picking apart my language or phrases, non-constructive comments, or anything else off topic. You can type it if you just want a forum to express your opinion, but it's not the "help" I'm looking for.

Most of you echo my biggest concern, the what if either of us meet the love of our life after we've committed to each other? It's a risk, I know, but in some fashion all marriages risk it to a degree. For almost every married person, there is probably a person out there better suited for them than their spouse. With marriage, you make a commitment to make your relationship work with that person you've chosen, even if you run into your perfect match someday. We do love each other and are kindred spirits who have already weathered some serious storms together. It has actually brought us closer together rather than further apart. I just have to weigh the benefits of making a family with him ( which I am certain of) with the potential for disappointment or resentment (which is a possibility, but a less certain one). To speak to those posters concerned with our potential children: it would be IVF, I think a child deserves two parents if possible, not to mention how difficult being a single parent is, I think our child would see our loving relationship because we hug and kiss and hold hands and not get too hung up on details like bed sharing, and we would certainly explain the details of our relationship openly and honestly in an age-appropriate manner

[loripuff]

I do not harbor any illusion of "turning him straight" anymore than anyone else could turn me into a lesbian. He is a gay man and has been from birth, even if he was married to a woman for 5 years.

[jenifer1972]

You admit you are a little in love with him. He will be intimate with others probably in your home. This will kill you slowly. Just live as companions. You will regret limiting your own options by legally binding yourself into a Plan B.

[loripuff]

I worry more about being left with the kid to raise as a single parent if we don't get married. I don't want a child outside of marriage because it would make it too easy for one of us to walk away from parenting as a team. I don't see any reason to get married if we don't get pregnant and I can't fathom not getting married if we do. Really it comes down to the kid. No kid - no legal marriage. I also wonder why anyone should get married if they don't have or plan on having kids? I personally have no intention of getting married at all if kids aren't on the menu, even if I do meet my dream man. A committed relationship is enough for me because I have no desire to tie myself to anyone financially and legally without something more compelling like a child. I make 10 times more money than any man I've dated so unless I want to threaten my security, why would I marry? I'm not some sad lonely desperate rapidly approaching middle age tragic spinster who is wanting marriage at any cost, unlike what a previous poster assumed. If I didn't want a kid, you couldn't drag my cold dead body down the aisle.

[Heather1]

I don't think it's fair to marry someone you're not attracted to. My H is straight, a great father, etc., but I'm not attracted to him. I forfeited that part of my life for a family life that I wanted. It's backfiring BIG TIME now.

 

Do you want to forfeit two people's biological needs for 22 years for your clock? There's plenty of parents who are divorced that split time w/ the kids & it works great. I think it's better quality time than what I did, which was stay home for 15 years w/out a break or any help.

 

There's risks w/ everything, but you're straight & kind of attracted to him, so that's workable. He's gay, you're asking him to be something he's not for 22 years. I would make sure he knows exactly what he's giving up.

[AmIWrong]

Do you get that you are knowingly bringing a child into an unstable relationship?

 

No one will argue with you that a child is better off in a two parent household, but what happens when that stability is suddenly taken away, and the children are forced to deal with the fall-out and adapt to a single parent household? What then? Or how healthy do you think it is for a child to be raised by one or both parents suffering depression as a result of living a lie? I'm not suggesting that's going to be your fate. I get that you and your friend would be great parents together.

 

Please consider educating yourself about the effects of divorce on children. I read somewhere that even the most amicable divorces have far reaching effects. If that's true, some would argue that a child is better off being raised in a single parent household to begin with. What do you think? The only thing that matters is how YOU see this playing out, and whether or not you're OK with it.