tattoomytoe Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 then i just do not get the biology of religion.....what do you mean? Link to post Share on other sites
InmannRoshi Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I'm saying that there are sociable animals in nature who are monogamous. But I have to also add in with my previous statements that even in monogamous animals, cheating is pretty common. Birds were widely thought to be the most monogamous animals on earth, but recent scientific advances in technology and science has allowed scientists to track offspring genetics, and some studies have found that female birds were laying 40% of their eggs with genetic markers indicating they came from different males than the ones they were coupled to. Really, in monogamous animals, females get the best of both worlds. They get a male to play house with, and then they can go out and seek better reproductive partners when they feel like it. Meanwhile, in non-monogamous animals, the males' only responsibility is copulation, and then the females are left on their own. Link to post Share on other sites
tattoomytoe Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 ok.... but lets say we take birth control pills so that we do not procreate until we are ready to, then why would i want to be monogamous Link to post Share on other sites
tattoomytoe Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 science and technology make monogomy unrealistic. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Firstly, despite the claims of some that we're just animals, we DO possess at least one thing above the (rest of the) animal kingdom, and that's an awareness of the consequences of our actions. Just like animals, we possess instincts. But unlike, say a dog, we have the cognitive ability to CHOOSE whether to obey such an instinct. Many animals demonstrate an awareness of the consequences of their actions too. Secondly, there ARE animals who breed for life, monogamous. I don't know much about this but the examples I've seen are ones where monogomy is essential to the survival of the offspring. As such this is a species specific form of natural selection. Thirdly, some men, and certainly women, desire monogamy. Monogamous men may not be as popular or have your ear, but they exist. Because our brains are so complex, how do we know whether our sexual desires are instinctual (i.e., wiring) or just merely a product of our rational thinking, which other animals do not have? I don't see the point in seperating what is instinctual and what is a product of higher cognitive functions. The brain doesn't work like that. There are a few basic functions (breathing, posture) that seem to reside independently in the lower brain. The areas that deal with logical thought and instinctive response/emotions/feelings are interconnected and the neurotransmitters zap back and forth between them when we think. What makes more sense to me is to think of it in terms of the old genetics/environment argument. Much of the variation in behaviour will be accounted for by societal factors (experience etc.). But given the same set of circumstances, people will react differently, according to their basic personality types (attitude to risk, level of impulsiveness etc). To me it is self evident that people are not "naturally" monogomous. But we have choices in life and many find happiness within monogomy and so choose to live that way. There is a difference between being promiscuous and being unfaithful. Promiscuity indicating casual sex in which emotions are less likely to be invested and unfaithfulness where as much emotional investment may be made in an affair as was in the primary relationship. it's enough to keep other animals honest? Don't understand this. Animals are not honest or otherwise and generally copulate frequently with any and everyone. It is humans that invest emotion in their sexual relationships, or at least some of them do! Link to post Share on other sites
tattoomytoe Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 so basically monogomy is good for having babies and caring for you kids.....well what about those persons that do not want to have kids? Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme because she's able to survive in the environment without an excess of food--it's what makes her attractive. But she's not. The one with the fat stores will live longer in a situation of deprivation. The skinny ones will drop like flies No, that's the point, the fact that she's able to be undernourished yet still live to be sexually active (we're talking natural selection here) makes her more desirable. But I'm just being a smartass. People keep mentioning polygamy. There is a HUGE difference between polygamy and cheating/adultery I think they're just taking polygamy as a semantic opposite of monogamy, without actually thinking through what the word truly implies. Originally posted by tattoomytoe but i do not think humans are naturally monogamous, we are very social animals I hate to be a penguin nazi, but monogamous penguins remain, by far, the MOST social bird on the planet. Originally posted by meanon Animals are not honest or otherwise and generally copulate frequently with any and everyone. Perhaps I don't understand you, but, many are very selective, and some are exclusive. Originally posted by tattoomytoe well what about those persons that do not want to have kids? From a biological perspective, they're worthless. I've enjoyed all of your replies. Btw, I'm not simply talking about marriage, I just mean commiting to one person--I got sick and tired of people saying "men are not wired for monogamy", and wished to entertain the idea that we are, or that we're wired for personal choice. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Us humans also have rules. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup Us humans also have rules. Clarify please? Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Always suspected you might be a closet peguin Nazi!!! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Quick! Someone tell Paul to hide his pengies! Link to post Share on other sites
soontobesolo Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I'm glad I stumbled on this message board today. Appears to have intelligent and humorous participants. I look forward to the next topic to dissect Link to post Share on other sites
ldybg51 Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Can't it just be about being in total love with someone and only wanting to be with that person? It has been my experience that when I love someone I am just not interested in other people. To be honest, a statuesque'ish model'ish male could walk by and apart from noticing that he is a statuesque'ish model'ish male I would have no other interest in him. Just none. And I use these highly competent descriptive terms because it would take someone who is extremely great looking for me to really even 'see' them. When I am in love I just kinda go about by business with not even looking really. Now that I am single but still in love (hopefully not for long) I still am not really interested in other guys. I am beggining to get over this, which I hope means that I am getting over HIM. I still cant stand the thought of him being with anyone else, and I wish that he felt the same way, but I do hope that one day I will find someone that I will be with Forever and he will be with me and only me and be okay with that. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Maybe it's a question of lack of wiring for devotion and loyalty. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Maybe it's a question of lack of wiring for devotion and loyalty. Must everything be about wiring though? Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Maybe it's a question of lack of wiring for devotion and loyalty. Must everything be about wiring though? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Talk to the evolutionary psych people. People developed for a reason. Things from fear to lust serve a purpose. It appears more and more that there is a greater percentage of 'nature' than 'nurture' to us than we suspected. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 dyermaker I got sick and tired of people saying "men are not wired for monogamy", and wished to entertain the idea that we are, or that we're wired for personal choice.Nah. Those women are bitter after failing in their relationships. They aren’t willing to address their own shortcomings and mistakes so they blame men in general. The societal norm is to scapegoat other people. Where would we be without it? moimeme It appears more and more that there is a greater percentage of 'nature' than 'nurture' to us than we suspected.Maybe some people are starting to believe that we are part nature instead of its master. Link to post Share on other sites
lostforwords Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 .... sorry thought thread said: Oh, humans are HOT wired for monogamy. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Nah. Those women are bitter after failing in their relationships. They aren’t willing to address their own shortcomings and mistakes so they blame men in general. The societal norm is to scapegoat other people. Where would we be without it? Um. Blockhead. It is MEN who tout this little myth to excuse their forays into infidelity. Yeesh, man. Do you live on this planet? Have you read the posts on this board? Women don't buy this BS; it's MEN who keep saying 'men are biologically programmed to be unfaithful'. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 moimeme Women don't buy this BS; it's MEN who keep saying 'men are biologically programmed to be unfaithful'.It is a lame excuse for men, and it is almost as lame as “The devil made me do it.” If you look hard enough, you’ll find plenty of women that believe it. Yes, I live on this plant, but I don’t delude myself like some people. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Do you believe in memes? Do we have any control over our thoughts whatsoever? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Not sure about memes. Control over our thoughts? Sure, but we're talking control over things like emotions and primal needs and all the behaviours and issues that arise from them. We don't consciously create many of these and often don't understand how experiences have formed us. We don't really create ourselves. Often, we react to ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 And a conscious awareness of these don't change our ability to react to them? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Not easily. That's the premise of cognitive therapy. Cognitive therapy doesn't have a real impressive success rate. Depends on the issue, how it came about, and even personality. Link to post Share on other sites
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