silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think of my daughter and I wonder what would happen if I condemed her for every "mistake" she has (and will) make. I find that when does something that I don't understand or looks "odd" to me then I need to take the time to understand where she is at inside herself - and when I do I can normally understand why she is evidencing the behaviour that looks odd. And then I can also normally she that she is trying the VERY BEST SHE CAN with what she has (or believes she has) available. And for that, I love her xxx be safe Chris :) Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think of my daughter and I wonder what would happen if I condemed her for every "mistake" she has (and will) make. I find that when does something that I don't understand or looks "odd" to me then I need to take the time to understand where she is at inside herself - and when I do I can normally understand why she is evidencing the behaviour that looks odd. And then I can also normally she that she is trying the VERY BEST SHE CAN with what she has (or believes she has) available. And for that, I love her xxx be safe Chris :) I agree with that but a four year affair is not a MISTAKE. A one night stand sure a four year affair um noooo. Link to post Share on other sites
YellowShark Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And to all the rigid people with "strong morals", not willing to accept anyone who made any sort of more serious mistakes in their past, "good luck" as there seems to be few people around who are good enough for them. Personally I have no holier than thou attitude. But having an affair for 4 years with a MM is not a "mistake" Ellin. It's a life choice. That is the difference. Lets say there are two men and ten women in a room. Both men have good jobs, both are good looking, and both are dressed equally well. But one is a serial cheater and one is not. If you asked each of those 10 women which one would make a better husband how many would pick the serial cheater? Link to post Share on other sites
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is a man choosing who is suitable to be his life partner. He found someone having been involved with an extra marital affair for FOUR years to be unworthy of someone for that position. He doesn't want his wife and possible mother of his children to be someone who was capable of lying and sneaking around for four years. Suitability for a mate is even more important than a job. Let's say he does have children ... he might have then found that a partner who understood that life could take you down unwise paths and who therefore had a heart deep enough to look beyond that would have, in fact, made a very good, compassionate and understanding mother when his children err'd in their ways (as they surely would do !) ... He might also have found that developing the human compassion and understanding he would have needed to be more compassionate towards his ex (even if just by letting her down gently and being a friend) would also have made him a better father when, perhaps, years later the same thing happened to one of his children. Of course, the opposite could also have been true ... I am just saying nothing in life is black and white and that standing by your own boundaries does not mean you can't extend help to others who might be less internally "strong" than you. be well Chris :) Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think of my daughter and I wonder what would happen if I condemed her for every "mistake" she has (and will) make. I find that when does something that I don't understand or looks "odd" to me then I need to take the time to understand where she is at inside herself - and when I do I can normally understand why she is evidencing the behaviour that looks odd. And then I can also normally she that she is trying the VERY BEST SHE CAN with what she has (or believes she has) available. And for that, I love her xxx be safe Chris :) Are we talking about a Daughter here. Of course we stand behind our kids. We raised them, are part of us, are responsible for their wellbeing .. hopefully as long as we are here. OP is talking about a girl friend. And appears to be concerned about someone who had hung onto a MM who was in a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I agree with that but a four year affair is not a MISTAKE. A one night stand sure a four year affair um noooo. - a four year affair could be someone who was abused in their childhood and is unable to stand up for themselves/desperate for love - a four year affair could be someone who is SO trusting and loving that it takes them that long to realise that they are being manipulated - a four year affair could be someone who is so lonely and confused in side that an affair is the only way they can feel loved without also feeling insecure If any of these were my daughter (or another human being) then I would feel sorry for them ... not just because they got caught in an affair but also because of what had happened to them before to make them vunerable. It wouldn't mean I would rush into a relationship with them but it would mean that I could treat with them with basic human compassion and, god forbid, actually try and find a positive way to help them. C Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 - a four year affair could be someone who was abused in their childhood and is unable to stand up for themselves/desperate for love - a four year affair could be someone who is SO trusting and loving that it takes them that long to realise that they are being manipulated - a four year affair could be someone who is so lonely and confused in side that an affair is the only way they can feel loved without also feeling insecure If any of these were my daughter (or another human being) then I would feel sorry for them ... not just because they got caught in an affair but also because of what had happened to them before to make them vunerable. It wouldn't mean I would rush into a relationship with them but it would mean that I could treat with them with basic human compassion and, god forbid, actually try and find a positive way to help them. C Not to be a downer on your very positive posts but every scenario you just described is a very flawed person and someone I may befriend but not have a relationship with. Link to post Share on other sites
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Are we talking about a Daughter here. Of course we stand behind our kids. We raised them, are part of us, are responsible for their wellbeing .. hopefully as long as we are here. OP is talking about a girl friend. And appears to be concerned about someone who had hung onto a MM who was in a marriage. I agree that this girl is not the OP's responsibility .. but she is another human being and she is, hopefully, someone's daughter. I don't mind that the OP doesn't want to be with her ... we all (hopefully) have the right to choose our partner ... I just don't need to condemn her. Maybe her behaviour is evidence of previous naivity, loneliness, insecurity or even inner anger left over from something ... I am not challenging the OP's right to decide about their partner, I just think it's a shame for the girl that, if she is trying to fix herself inside, she didn't meet someone who could let her down a bit more "understandingly" and less "judgementally". And who are we to judge .. how do we know she wasn't abused as a child and this is what has occured since ... can we really say that her life experiences might not have led us to the same ??? The OP has his wish, he has maintained his boundaries, I see no need to knock another human being who might well be trying their VERY BEST to get to a better place. C Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Not to be a downer on your very positive posts but every scenario you just described is a very flawed person and someone I may befriend but not have a relationship with. Right. We are talking about having a relationship with someone .. a relationship that could lead to marriage. Not speaking of a wayward child. (Whom we have most likely tried to teach otherwise). I'm not saying the OP could not re-evaluate his R with this woman over a period of time, and his love for her. But the comparisons here ... are not comparisons. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Not to be a downer on your very positive posts but every scenario you just described is a very flawed person and someone I may befriend but not have a relationship with. So it's too great of a risk to you.....right? Even if the person has done a lot of hard work and has had a change of life and you were as confident as anyone could reasonably be that the bad choices would not be repeated again, would you still see it as too great of a risk? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Not to be a downer on your very positive posts but every scenario you just described is a very flawed person and someone I may befriend but not have a relationship with. I agree with you , and that is what my last line meant, ie "It wouldn't mean I would rush into a relationship with them but it would mean that I could treat with them with basic human compassion and, god forbid, actually try and find a positive way to help them." It does intreague me as to the nature of the original "love" though ... there does not seem to be even a hint of basic human compassion underneath it for this girl as a human being. Sure, say no to a relationship if that's what one needs to do, but if you really loved someone wouldn't you want to at least try and help them as a human being alone ... (without the potential prize of a relationship). That's what I just don't get .. C Link to post Share on other sites
silverplanets Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Right. We are talking about having a relationship with someone .. a relationship that could lead to marriage. Not speaking of a wayward child. (Whom we have most likely tried to teach otherwise). I'm not saying the OP could not re-evaluate his R with this woman over a period of time, and his love for her. But the comparisons here ... are not comparisons. The light's just clicked about what bugs me about this whole thread :) When OP thought he had found his wife then he "loved her" When he discovered that she was wasn't then she no longer even merits any kind of attention from him. I love you, but if there's nothing in it for me then I won't even be any kind of friend. THAT'S what's been bugging me and I haven't seen it till I read your reply. OK, off to bed now ... take care Chris When he discovered that she was not then he is no longer interested Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I agree with you , and that is what my last line meant, ie "It wouldn't mean I would rush into a relationship with them but it would mean that I could treat with them with basic human compassion and, god forbid, actually try and find a positive way to help them." It does intreague me as to the nature of the original "love" though ... there does not seem to be even a hint of basic human compassion underneath it for this girl as a human being. Sure, say no to a relationship if that's what one needs to do, but if you really loved someone wouldn't you want to at least try and help them as a human being alone ... (without the potential prize of a relationship). That's what I just don't get .. C Chris, I think you very eloquently summed up what bothers some of us about the way the OP handled it. It appears to be cold and not compassionate at all. My heart goes out to that poor woman is I can just imagine how difficult it was for her to tell him of her past and then he proceeded to deal with it in what appears to be a very cold way. If it was me......I can just imagine how I would feel. I'm afraid she will find it very difficult to trust anyone again. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The light's just clicked about what bugs me about this whole thread :) When OP thought he had found his wife then he "loved her" When he discovered that she was wasn't then she no longer even merits any kind of attention from him. I love you, but if there's nothing in it for me then I won't even be any kind of friend. THAT'S what's been bugging me and I haven't seen it till I read your reply. OK, off to bed now ... take care Chris When he discovered that she was not then he is no longer interested I have no idea if this is strictly a situation of: I don't want to be with a woman who was with a MM. ... or is there a certain amount of instability that carries over from one relationship to another - when one has been with or in love with another partner. Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The thing is you have to respect someone to love them. When you lose respect for someone that loss of love follows right behind. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Chris, I think you very eloquently summed up what bothers some of us about the way the OP handled it. It appears to be cold and not compassionate at all. My heart goes out to that poor woman is I can just imagine how difficult it was for her to tell him of her past and then he proceeded to deal with it in what appears to be a very cold way. If it was me......I can just imagine how I would feel. I'm afraid she will find it very difficult to trust anyone again. She should have told him of her past with a MM right at the start of the relationship and not wait 6 months, the time it took to hook him, to come clean. My sympathy is with the OP. I'm afraid she will find it very difficult to trust anyone again. The same could be said for OP. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 She should have told him of her past with a MM right at the start of the relationship and not wait 6 months, the time it took to hook him, to come clean. My sympathy is with the OP. I'm afraid she will find it very difficult to trust anyone again. The same could be said for OP. You must be kidding.........I'm out on my first date with someone, over dinner, I say oh by the way........ In order to tell someone my story, you can bet that I will have to trust them first and I wouldn't be a bit shocked to find that it takes 6 months or more to trust them. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You must be kidding.........I'm out on my first date with someone, over dinner, I say oh by the way........ In order to tell someone my story, you can bet that I will have to trust them first and I wouldn't be a bit shocked to find that it takes 6 months or more to trust them. Maybe that should have been one of his first questions to her. "Have you ever cheated or helped someone cheat?" Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Maybe that should have been one of his first questions to her. "Have you ever cheated or helped someone cheat?" Maybe so.........since he has no tolerance for it due to his past history and yes I get that and that is his choice, but I can easily put myself in her shoes and I would hope that someone would be kind and compassionate. I would hope that they would not condemn me to the rest of my life been labeled as something ugly and dirty. Also.........there are few adults in this life who do not have some sort of baggage, and before anyone says yes but I never cheated, well to never have cheated or been involved in a relationship where cheating was part of the dynamic does not guarantee that the odds are in your favor, as almost all adults have baggage of some sort. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Oh and while I'm on a roll....... I have a lot of baggage and guess what, I'm pretty damn normal. Some of my baggage comes from my own choices and yes I own those but most of it comes from the things that happened to me in my childhood and damn it........I did NOT choose those things, nor did I have a say in them. I'm not saying that the things that happen to us in childhood are an excuse for what we choose as adults but they do influence us, in good and bad ways, = baggage. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There are many people out there that have never been cheated on and they outnumber those that have. I hope. Maybe I should do some research on that coz I made that up. IMO, those that have never experienced betrayal would be way more tolerant of others "mistakes". I used to be one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There are many people out there that have never been cheated on and they outnumber those that have. I hope. Maybe I should do some research on that coz I made that up. IMO, those that have never experienced betrayal would be way more tolerant of others "mistakes". I used to be one of them. Well.........as odd as it probably is to you, I'm a hell of a lot less tolerate of it now than I used to be. I can say with 100% certainty that I will never have any part of that dynamic again and yes if I meet someone who tells me of a history of it, it will make me even more cautious, but yet at the same time, if I expect to be treated kindly and compassionately I have to treat someone else the same way. Chris's post made me see that. OH and I know the feeling of betrayal also. Not the same as yours but everything that I thought was true for almost 2 years was not. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 How do you know she lied and sneaked around for four years? He was the one who lied, that's for sure, but not necessarily her. Unless you consider not making her way to the W and telling her everything lying. Because the OP said that she told him she felt "guilt" about what she had done. No one feels guilt when things are on the up and up. I think of my daughter and I wonder what would happen if I condemed her for every "mistake" she has (and will) make. I find that when does something that I don't understand or looks "odd" to me then I need to take the time to understand where she is at inside herself - and when I do I can normally understand why she is evidencing the behaviour that looks odd. And then I can also normally she that she is trying the VERY BEST SHE CAN with what she has (or believes she has) available. And for that, I love her xxx be safe Chris :) Big difference between a beloved child that shares our DNA and a potential lover. We can cut the lover loose and they will never be our lover anymore. Not so with our children. So we have a motivation to keep our relatives and be a little more tolerant with them. The OP was harsh in the way that he speaks about dumping her. But its clear that she now disgusts him. Some people are like that. The ex seems to have a penchant for picking guys that she's really not that compatible with obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Oh and while I'm on a roll....... I have a lot of baggage and guess what, I'm pretty damn normal. Some of my baggage comes from my own choices and yes I own those but most of it comes from the things that happened to me in my childhood and damn it........I did NOT choose those things, nor did I have a say in them. I'm not saying that the things that happen to us in childhood are an excuse for what we choose as adults but they do influence us, in good and bad ways, = baggage. I understand that. My ex had a horrific childhood and was abandoned by his father at the age of 3. His mother went on to have lots of men in her life. I sometimes look at his childhood in order to help me deal with the how's and why's he put me through h*ll. Link to post Share on other sites
BB07 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I understand that. My ex had a horrific childhood and was abandoned by his father at the age of 3. His mother went on to have lots of men in her life. I sometimes look at his childhood in order to help me deal with the how's and why's he put me through h*ll. I'm really sorry that you had to go through all that, I truly am. I don't recall your story but did you two reconcile? If so.......I hope things are very good for you both. Understanding why someone does/did whatever it was, does not mean that you excuse it or that it makes it stop hurting. Link to post Share on other sites
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