112233 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I totally agree that the job market sucks, especially in America as I understand .... It actually seems OK to me but I realize one set of results isn't definitive. Link to post Share on other sites
112233 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 She comes from another planet where all people with Master's degrees automatically earn $80K+ fresh out of school. A masters hasn't ever been much good for anything. If you go to the trouble to get it, go all the way, a PhD will get you a huge bump in both employability and long term prospects where you eventually land. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetjasmine Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 If you go to the trouble to get it, go all the way, a PhD will get you a huge bump in both employability and long term prospects where you eventually land. That's absolutely not true. With a PhD, I'd be fighting dozens of desperate PhDs and post-docs for very few jobs as universities are downsizing their departments in an attempt to pinch pennies. If I got lucky, I would land a lecturer position where I'd be required to teach 3 courses per term for $30-40,000 with no benefits and zero job security. Then 5 years later after my contract would expire, I would have to desperately search for another job again, hoping like hell that there would even be any openings. Or I could quit while I'm ahead and earn just as much or more, with benefits, without the trouble of studying for an additional four years, writing and defending a dissertation, and going through the BS dance of an academic job search. PhDs are no longer employable unless you're in a science field where you can leave academia and go into the private sector or government or where you can earn your university a lot of grant money with your sexy research. In everything else, you will be utterly unemployable outside of academia in an economy like this, and in academia, you're going to get screwed. If I went back for my PhD, I'd be shooting myself in the foot. Or maybe the head. Link to post Share on other sites
112233 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 That's absolutely not true. .... PhDs are no longer employable unless you're in a science field where you can leave academia and go into the private sector .... If I went back for my PhD, I'd be shooting myself in the foot. Or maybe the head. In my field it's absolutely true, a qualified applicant with PhD starts at $160K. Maybe you should choose a field where there is some demand? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetjasmine Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 In my field it's absolutely true, a qualified applicant with PhD starts at $160K. It's untrue in the majority of academic fields, which is why your comment about "going all the way" for a PhD doesn't make any sense as a general statement. It's the exception that a PhD will open more doors and earn you more money than a Master's. There's enough demand in the field I was studying - numbers were up consistently for the past 5 years or so - but that won't save you from the chopping block in the end because my [former] field doesn't get multimillion dollar grants from NSF, corporations, etc.. Universities are screwing themselves over by gutting departments like mine, though. They get more bang for their buck with our professors because we don't require expensive equipment or labs - everyone's desperate enough to work for a sh-t salary and no benefits, and there's still student demand for courses in areas covered by departments like mine. Oh well. It's not my problem anymore, but future generations will be at a disadvantage. Link to post Share on other sites
112233 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 It's untrue in the majority of academic fields, which is why your comment about "going all the way" for a PhD doesn't make any sense as a general statement. It's the exception that a PhD will open more doors and earn you more money than a Master's. Why are we wasting resources training people for something there's already little excess demand for? Universities are screwing themselves over by gutting departments like mine, though. They get more bang for their buck ... Bang for the buck for WHAT? If the job market is saturated ... jebus. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dante311 Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 Most all universities are downsizing departments and merging departments... ie, adjunct faculty are being terminated or some sort of part-time gig for less pay and associate professors find their position being merged with another ... the only safe ones are those with tenures. PhD's are administrative pencil pushing bull****. Not my ideal... especially IN the science realm. I don't know outside of the science, but a PhD within our field is 1/3 teaching 2-3 courses for pennies... (which I enjoy doing, but not what I ultimately WANT to do)... 1/3 research (which I enjoy, but again.. a lot of grant writing/manuscript BS... which I don't enjoy)... and publishing... which is cool, but you need to do the research in order to publish. A PhD determines your fate.. as NO ONE other than a gov't sector (if you're the TOP in your field) and / or a university will hire you. Private sectors can pay a masters student with years and years and certifications for that. Again, depends on the field.. and even the PhD's in the private sector are TOP of their field. There are more PhD's than the market can hold... and a PhD limits you to academia.. which I love, a world in itself, but I want more. I want to work with people... heh Link to post Share on other sites
112233 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 ... and a PhD limits you to academia Maybe in your specialty, but it doesn't get much more private sector than what we're doing. Link to post Share on other sites
Surrealist Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 So oneonetwotwothreethree What profession, specialty or industry are you in? Also the job market is great for me too, I'm fully employed working in an air conditioned office all day sitting at a computer, and my biggest gripe is being bored at work. I'm not sure everyone out there scrambling for any menial job that pays half of what I get for bucket loads more effort would agree with me but hey, as long as I am comfortable, it must be just everyone else. I'm being a little sarcastic, point being, not everyone is going to be able to get a quality job. I'd rather look at what challenges people face than deny reality just because my reality is vastly different in my little glasshouse compared to that of others. Link to post Share on other sites
112233 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 So oneonetwotwothreethree What profession, specialty or industry are you in? In general terms, computer science and engineering. I've applied that to various specific areas of R&D over the years. My biggest employment challenge in the last decade has been trying to get time off, there's so much work and so few people that don't suck. Link to post Share on other sites
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