Spark1111 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I fully agree with the bolded part. I have a very hard time understanding how xMM doesn't seem to realize that he owes it to his W, now that the cat is, at least partially out of the bag, to put all the cards on the table and address the issues that made him stray and see it as an opportunity to start over with her from scratch. As his now xOW, I consider it a further insult that, now that he has chosen to remain with BW, he would not do his very best to work on his marriage. It's so painful to realize that he would choose to continue to stay in a dysfunctional and dishonest relationship with BW at the cost of what could have been between us, just because he's afraid to own up for his actions. ANd that SHOULD be enlightening for you to see! When push comes to shove, and the hard gets tough and authentic......you see your xMM for what he is: A frightened conflict-avoider who STILL can't man up. And that is HARD to respect, isn't it? Because that is exactly the behavior he would have displayed with you when your first real tough issue came along....he would have avoided it; not told YOU the truth of it, or, even worse, blamed YOU for the problem. You should have a new found respect for his BS. She has probably been dealing with it for years.
Spark1111 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Are you asking me this as an xOW or if I was his wife? Any of the above. I often use the analogy of being the OW discovering another OW during the course of the relationship because the devastation of that thought frequently allows OW and xOW the insight necessary to understand the pain of some BS's at D-DAY. Like mine! So many OW are TOLD how uncaring and unappreciative the spouse is, so there is often little empathy for the spouse during the affair. And after DDAY, they still protect the xMM's secrets and avoid or ignore the BS if she attempts to contact the OW. That is the norm, it seems. It was in my case.
Spark1111 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Are you asking me this as an xOW or if I was his wife? Let's just say as a woman who wants to, at least initially, forgive a man you love for cheating on you. What would you need?
Dexter Morgan Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I suppose it would depend on what and how much the BS wanted to know. I think the BS's that want details are telling themselves that if they get the whole story, that maybe it might not sound that bad and they can justify not having to move out of an apartment, or something like that. but rarely does any detail, even if some of the worst things that could come to mind did not happen with their cheater, rarely does it make them feel better about staying. With TT there is so much left out and much is also minimised. I am sure that many WS's omit a lot to save their hide. exactly. WS's are liars by default, their versions of the story can't be trusted.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Is it possible men that don't want or need to know the details? I think most men want details because of ego. I understand that. However I didn't care about details. All I knew is my x spread her legs...thats all I needed to know. I didn't care if she gave him a blowjob or if she rode on top of him..etc. It was irrelevant. A cheater is a cheater. And I think you are correct, I think men tend to fixate on the sexual side of it. thats not to say if a gf or wife of mine developed an emotional affair that I would stay because it wasn't sex. I don't want someone if I have to wonder if she is sending sweet nothings to someone else. they can have her.
Author September Posted December 21, 2010 Author Posted December 21, 2010 I fully agree with the bolded part. I have a very hard time understanding how xMM doesn't seem to realize that he owes it to his W, now that the cat is, at least partially out of the bag, to put all the cards on the table and address the issues that made him stray and see it as an opportunity to start over with her from scratch. As his now xOW, I consider it a further insult that, now that he has chosen to remain with BW, he would not do his very best to work on his marriage. It's so painful to realize that he would choose to continue to stay in a dysfunctional and dishonest relationship with BW at the cost of what could have been between us, just because he's afraid to own up for his actions. I couldn't agree more with what you have stated above!
fellhard4u Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Spark, I will reply to your comments and questions later today...I have to take care of stuff around family and home for the rest of the day.
fellhard4u Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 (edited) Quote: Originally Posted by fellhard4u As his now xOW, I consider it a further insult that, now that he has chosen to remain with BW, he would not do his very best to work on his marriage. It's so painful to realize that he would choose to continue to stay in a dysfunctional and dishonest relationship with BW at the cost of what could have been between us, just because he's afraid to own up for his actions. This is an interesting perspective coming from an xOW. And I mean no disrespect, honest! Did you ever tell the xMM what you wrote above? Snowflower, yes, xMM knows my opinion on the matter very well. He chose to stay in his marriage and that's his prerogative. Although this has caused me pain and heartbreak unlike anything I've felt in my life so far, I would be able to understand his decision if he had gone back because he realized that his wife was the one for him and that he had every intention of fixing what was broken in their relationship. Despite the fact that this would mean that xMM and I would still never be together, the A would have had at least one positive result and not feel like such a completely awful waste of emotions, time and energy for everyone involved. Instead, he chose to remain in the marriage because he didn't want to be "in trouble" or be seen as the bad guy. He neither had the courage to tell BW about what he wanted from their relationship, nor did he choose to come clean about the A. He thought he could just continue pretending to her that everything was ok between the two of them. Edited December 22, 2010 by fellhard4u
pureinheart Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 For me the details were/are important. Now I am trying to reconcile. I expect my WS to tell me every single detail she can. It's my own way of healing. Be careful what you ask for, don't ask for the details unless you can handle the answers. This I think would be extremely hurtful, although you sound extremely balanced and incharge of your emotions and reactions...so if that helped you, hey more power to you. You sound like a very forgiving, nice person...your W is an extremely fortunate person IMO:)...the best of everything for your M:)
fellhard4u Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Let's just say as a woman who wants to, at least initially, forgive a man you love for cheating on you. What would you need? That's a very good question. I honestly don't know if I would be able to forgive a WS or any man that I was with if they cheated on me. With xMM, I naively believed that anyone who was able and willing to commit such an act of betrayal towards their spouse/SO would have had at least one foot out of the door of the marriage. Little did I know... As a wife, I guess it would depend on the circumstances surrounding the A; how close and how long the relationship between WS and OW is/was, how remorseful the WS was and their level of willingness to commit to making the marriage better after the A and of course, whether or not they were prepared to be honest and forthright from that moment on. Having been betrayed by my now xH in ways that have nothing to do with infidelity, I know that I've forgiven him for what he did. However I still chose not to remain in the marriage because his actions made it so that I could never again be unguarded in my marriage and the fallout-out of his betrayal has cost me dearly and has affected most aspects of my life and that of my kids.
Trimmer Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 I agree with Owl, I didn't need to know any details because my marriage was over. If we had reconciled then I would have wanted to know everything. I agree completely with this. It's amazing how my acceptance of the end of our marriage pretty much completely shut off my need to know any more details.
bentnotbroken Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 I think the BS's that want details are telling themselves that if they get the whole story, that maybe it might not sound that bad and they can justify not having to move out of an apartment, or something like that. but rarely does any detail, even if some of the worst things that could come to mind did not happen with their cheater, rarely does it make them feel better about staying. exactly. WS's are liars by default, their versions of the story can't be trusted. Dex this may be true for some. I needed to know every detail because I needed to know what parts of MY life were true and which were lies. If he did things with her that I found out of character...it helped me see him for who he really was and not the person I thought he was. The details showed me what he was capable of. The level he would stoop to. The lengths he would go to in order to have an A (multiple as it turns out) and the depths of the gas lighting. I have a very vivid imagination but some of the things I discovered never crossed my mind:eek:. It was like watching the make-up being stripped from a person and seeing the real face that was always there. It allowed me NOT to be conflicted about filing for divorce. It allowed me NOT to be conflicted about what I needed to do to save myself and my children. I allowed me NOT feel the "what if he does such and such". Do I think I got every detail....never. But I got enough to put my mind at ease in the choices I made.
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