Women and fear of commitment

[i made a mess]

Over the past few months I've really struggled. Can she help the way she is? Probably not. Do I blame her for hurting me? I still do. Maybe I shouldn't, but I do.

 

Thanks for your posts and their candor. They're very insightful and helpful. I'll keep what you've said in mind when I start thinking about what happened and start getting mad at her.

 

Ajax, you have every right to be mad at her. To want to scream with frustration. If the script were flipped, I'd be crazy with confusion as to what was wrong with that person. I'd think they were mental. Something that still stings me to this day that my ex said to me was that I was "the man in the relationship". I made him feel like a piece of meat. I controlled when I saw him, for how long, I called the shots. But it was only because I didn't know how to let my guard down...if I was in control, I couldn't get hurt.

 

For what it's worth, as much as you have struggled trying to understand...think about what it's like to be that person so conflicted inside and the struggle the are having with themselves. It's honestly complete torture. It's even worse when we know we're hurting someone. We push away, then pull them back in with the intention to "tell them how we feel" "open up and lay it on the line" but then once again, frozen with fear of rejection and clam up. And so the cycle continues. Every day, I'm so ashamed of myself and wonder what is wrong with me. I feel like a complete *******. I feel like I'm psychologically broken and a disaster just waiting to happen. Anything he were to say to me about my behavior is probably only a tenth of how I feel about how i've acted. I beat myself up on a daily basis for the hurt I caused. I didn't cheat, I didn't say mean things, but I also didn't give my self over to the relationship and take that leap of faith.

 

You certainly don't want to be on that rollercoaster ride with that person unless they want to get help and you want/are willing to stick by them while, no matter how long it takes, they are working on these issues that caused their internal problems in the first place.

[usagi]

i made a mess -

 

the important thing and the main difference between yourself and the men on the receiving end of this treatment in this thread is that you have made a heart felt apology with you letter. You have explained your actions and reasons, said sorry and started to work on yourself. This is how you are DIFFERENT to our ex's.

 

My ex also had your traits and I have no doubt your fears and guilt. She started to see a therapist and gave up rather quickly as she felt she wasn't getting results. I would love to receive a letter or call; all I got were a couple of texts and no apology. A text wasn't, in my eyes, much of an effort to make after all the crap I'd been put through.

 

Your ex may decide that he doesn't want to get involved again until he can see a significant change in you. He may decide not to get involved with you again at all. I can only put forward my emotions towards my ex as a guide to his feelings for you:

 

I have a deep set anger that she didn't want to open up. I'm upset that she thought I deserved better without actually asking me how I felt (I was happy even though I knew she was struggling and willing to be there through think and thin). I'm now suffering commitment issues and depression myself and so I am no longer strong enough to be strong enough for two. I miss her a great deal and lament what could have been and I flick between hope of reconciliation and relief that I no longer have such a see-saw of rejection/attention.

 

Most importantly; I remember our good times together fondly and am extremely sad that we couldn't work it out.

 

For now, after that letter, the only thing you can and should do is focus on yourself and curing/controlling your issues. I wish you the all the best and hope that life starts to settle down for you.

[GreenPolicy]

 

 

 

I have a deep set anger that she didn't want to open up. I'm upset that she thought I deserved better without actually asking me how I felt (I was happy even though I knew she was struggling and willing to be there through think and thin). I'm now suffering commitment issues and depression myself and so I am no longer strong enough to be strong enough for two. I miss her a great deal and lament what could have been and I flick between hope of reconciliation and relief that I no longer have such a see-saw of rejection/attention.

 

Most importantly; I remember our good times together fondly and am extremely sad that we couldn't work it out.

 

 

I am going through the exact same thing. My ex's biological father abandoned her mom, and her mom and stepdad argued a lot over her. She had a chaotic home life. Most of her relationships have been short-term and she is usually the dumper. I am angry that she decided for the both of us that the relationship had to end without ever opening up on her fears, doubts and concerns. My ex told me that when I showed her affection and gave her compliments, she didn't feel like that person on the inside. She told me she didn't think she could love me the way I want to be loved and needed to be loved, when the fact of the matter is that I never felt neglected by her and we got to the looking at rings together and trying to introduce our parents stage because there was so much about our relationship that worked. The idea that she thinks I deserve better is a maddening one because I loved her and accepted her for who she is, warts and all.

 

My friends and family have explained to me that she is not a healthy person, she has deep-seated issues, and until she works them out, she is no good to me in a long-term committed relationship. I understand that on an intellectual level as well. So in a sense, she did me a favor and prevented me from enduring further suffering by letting me go.

 

But my heart still wants her, wants to try and get her help she needs and work it out. It sucks.

[GreenPolicy]

When I think about my ex, for somebody with such deep-seated fears of being abandoned, what a cruel cosmic irony that she did exactly that to the person who loved her and treated her better than any guy ever did, and would have NEVER abandoned her.

[Ajax]

Most of her relationships have been short-term and she is usually the dumper. I am angry that she decided for the both of us that the relationship had to end without ever opening up on her fears, doubts and concerns.

 

My ex was the same way, and i feel the same as you do about it. But I think we need to acknowledge the fact that commitment issues aside, some of those relationships may not have lasted long anyway. I know my ex had commitment issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all of her failed relationships were a result of that. For all I know she'd been involved with a guy who was afraid to commit, and that influenced that aspect of her issues.

 

Which leads to the next thing ...

 

I'm now suffering commitment issues and depression myself and so I am no longer strong enough to be strong enough for two. I miss her a great deal and lament what could have been and I flick between hope of reconciliation and relief that I no longer have such a see-saw of rejection/attention.

 

 

Yeah, I'm worried about that too. Will I have issues commiting in the future? I think we'll all be a little more careful about it, but I think that when it comes down to it we'll be ok. For me, I'll be a little more careful when it comes to opening up and giving my heart to someone, but that doesn't mean that I'll push everyone away. I won't allow myself to be vulnerable too soon in a relationship, but I'll let the right person in at the right time. I think that those things actually will make for a healthier relationship down the road.

 

As for this:

 

When I think about my ex, for somebody with such deep-seated fears of being abandoned, what a cruel cosmic irony that she did exactly that to the person who loved her and treated her better than any guy ever did, and would have NEVER abandoned her.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[GreenPolicy]

My ex was the same way, and i feel the same as you do about it. But I think we need to acknowledge the fact that commitment issues aside, some of those relationships may not have lasted long anyway. I know my ex had commitment issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all of her failed relationships were a result of that. For all I know she'd been involved with a guy who was afraid to commit, and that influenced that aspect of her issues.

 

What she told me about her past is that most guys annoyed her and she couldn't deal with them for very long. The honeymoon stage would wear off quick. She actually made a comment towards the end about how surprised her coworkers were that we had lasted so long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm worried about that too. Will I have issues commiting in the future? I think we'll all be a little more careful about it, but I think that when it comes down to it we'll be ok. For me, I'll be a little more careful when it comes to opening up and giving my heart to someone, but that doesn't mean that I'll push everyone away. I won't allow myself to be vulnerable too soon in a relationship, but I'll let the right person in at the right time. I think that those things actually will make for a healthier relationship down the road.

 

We resolve to not be defeated by this, and to love again like we've never been hurt. I will NEVER do to another person what my ex did to me. No, I'm not saying I will never be a dumper. But I will never abandon somebody.

[i made a mess]

i made a mess -

 

the important thing and the main difference between yourself and the men on the receiving end of this treatment in this thread is that you have made a heart felt apology with you letter. You have explained your actions and reasons, said sorry and started to work on yourself. This is how you are DIFFERENT to our ex's.

 

My ex also had your traits and I have no doubt your fears and guilt. She started to see a therapist and gave up rather quickly as she felt she wasn't getting results. I would love to receive a letter or call; all I got were a couple of texts and no apology. A text wasn't, in my eyes, much of an effort to make after all the crap I'd been put through.

 

Your ex may decide that he doesn't want to get involved again until he can see a significant change in you. He may decide not to get involved with you again at all. I can only put forward my emotions towards my ex as a guide to his feelings for you:

 

I have a deep set anger that she didn't want to open up. I'm upset that she thought I deserved better without actually asking me how I felt (I was happy even though I knew she was struggling and willing to be there through think and thin). I'm now suffering commitment issues and depression myself and so I am no longer strong enough to be strong enough for two. I miss her a great deal and lament what could have been and I flick between hope of reconciliation and relief that I no longer have such a see-saw of rejection/attention.

 

Most importantly; I remember our good times together fondly and am extremely sad that we couldn't work it out.

 

For now, after that letter, the only thing you can and should do is focus on yourself and curing/controlling your issues. I wish you the all the best and hope that life starts to settle down for you.

 

I appreciate your honest feedback and experience. Getting it out there to people who aren't here to judge, but rather support, has been quite liberating and only helping to push me to want to improve things even more. A huge part of me wants to be mad that he gave up on me, the one thing I really hoped he wouldn't do; BUT I have absolutely no right to have anger, resentment, or any ill feelings towards such a wonderfully amazing and special man. I have nothing but pure love for him and really truly want him to be happy, I don't want to be the cause of his pain, I want to be a reason for his happiness be it in his life or out of it.

 

When I think about my ex, for somebody with such deep-seated fears of being abandoned, what a cruel cosmic irony that she did exactly that to the person who loved her and treated her better than any guy ever did, and would have NEVER abandoned her.

 

Believe me...I can't stress enough how ashamed, disappointed, frustrated, and guilty I feel. I'm angry with myself. I have NEVER been in a good relationship. I've always been the one to be left. Then, an extraordinary, wonderful, loving, passionate, caring man comes along offering a healthy and committed relationship and I completely freaked. I had no idea what it felt like to be loved for who I was, to not be asked to change, to just be enough to someone. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop, leaving before I could be left. It didn't feel real and I didn't want to imagine what the heartbreak would feel like if that person left. But now I know that I would rather regret doing something, then regret not doing it.

[GreenPolicy]

I appreciate your honest feedback and experience. Getting it out there to people who aren't here to judge, but rather support, has been quite liberating and only helping to push me to want to improve things even more. A huge part of me wants to be mad that he gave up on me, the one thing I really hoped he wouldn't do; BUT I have absolutely no right to have anger, resentment, or any ill feelings towards such a wonderfully amazing and special man. I have nothing but pure love for him and really truly want him to be happy, I don't want to be the cause of his pain, I want to be a reason for his happiness be it in his life or out of it.

 

 

Believe me...I can't stress enough how ashamed, disappointed, frustrated, and guilty I feel. I'm angry with myself. I have NEVER been in a good relationship. I've always been the one to be left. Then, an extraordinary, wonderful, loving, passionate, caring man comes along offering a healthy and committed relationship and I completely freaked. I had no idea what it felt like to be loved for who I was, to not be asked to change, to just be enough to someone. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop, leaving before I could be left. It didn't feel real and I didn't want to imagine what the heartbreak would feel like if that person left. But now I know that I would rather regret doing something, then regret not doing it.

 

Do you mind commenting on my story? Or I guess you already did:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253770

 

I really don't think it was infidelity. Looking back, she started to detach about a month beforehand. She was still emotionally in the relationship until about 4 weeks before she pulled the trigger.

Edited December 22, 2010 by GreenPolicy

[westrock]

Very interesting thread. It's not an easy position to be in whether you are a commitment phobic (CP) person or you are the non-CP partner inovled with a CP.

 

When I think about my ex, for somebody with such deep-seated fears of being abandoned, what a cruel cosmic irony that she did exactly that to the person who loved her and treated her better than any guy ever did, and would have NEVER abandoned her.

 

The CP person is acutely aware of this cruel cosmic irony. I don't believe they intentionally set out to abandon their non-CP partner, but it is more a collateral result of the CP trying to alleviate their fear of commitment. But that only leads them to feelings of confusion and extreme guilt for abandoning their partner who has likely loved them and treated them better than any previous partner. Intellectually the CP knows that they are being treated well by their non-CP partner. Everyone tells the CP that they have found the best partner and are so lucky etc... However, none of this alleviates the CP's fears but actually makes them worse. The CP begins to wonder whether something is wrong with themselves but they also struggle to intellectually understand why they act the way they do. Eventually, this leads to the CP making confusing comments to the non-CP to find someone else who they deserve better rather than stick around with the CP. The non-CP cannot make sense of this because the non-CP doesn't recognize the guilt the CP is feeling.

 

But, there is another cruel cosmic irony and that is that the non-CP has a fear of abandonment and the irony is that of all the people the non-CP is attracted to, the non-CP feels most attracted to the CP, the very person most likely to unintentionally abandon them. This is no accident but a subsconscious choice on the part of the non-CP. The reason for this is that the non-CP also has a fear of commitment but it is manifested in a way that as they get closer to their CP partner, the non-CP's fear of abandonment grows. In an attempt to alleviate the fear, the non-CP pulls in the CP in an effort to increase the commitment. Normally one would say, what's wrong with wanting to increase the commitment as it seems the natural thing to do. But, no matter how much committment there is, the non-CP cannot satisfy their fear of abandonment and the non-CP's actions actually trigger the CP's fears resulting in the CP pushing the non-CP away. This sets up a push-pull dynamic.

 

I wrote about this in a post a while back in response to a woman whose b/f was CP (I have quoted the text below). Basically, a CP person has 2 fears. Fear of being suffocated emotionally, but also a fear of abandonment. The non-CP has a fear of abandonment.

 

It's a difficult dynamic to resolve for each partner. Can the situation be resolved? I believe the answer is yes, but it requires therapy. If as a non-CP you were to recongize how hard it is to resolve your own abandonment fears, just imagine that it is probably twice as hard for a CP who has both suffocation and abandonment fears.

 

Here's what I wrote in the other thread which gives some insight on how some CP's became CP. Here is the link :

 

He is scared of being abandoned and of being suffocated.

 

People like your b/f will oscillate along a spectrum between two extremes: Abandonment <--> Suffocation. When he feels abandoned he will pursue you. However, as he gets closer to you emotionally, he will begin to feel suffocated and will push you away.

 

If you read up on pursuer-distancer (or push-pull) relationships, you will learn why your b/f acts the way he does. My understanding is that people who act like your b/f have issues that stem from their childhoold and having being caught in the middle of their parents' dysfunctional relationship.

 

If one parent was distant/cold/neglectful to the other parent, the parent feeling neglected may have become needy and instead of turning to the distant partner for emotional support, they instead used the child as a replacement for emotional support. This usually manifests itself by the neglected parent showering the child with excessive attention in an attempt to satisfy their own emotional needs. However, it is impossible for a child to satisfy the emotional needs of a neglected parent, and as a result the child develops some wrongs beliefs that affect them into adulthood.

 

All children need emotional attention from their parents, but if it is too little (from the distant parent) the child feels abandoned and if it is too much (from the neglected parent) the child becomes suffocated emotionally. Since the child doesn't know any better, at times they strive to gain the attention of the distant parent, but at the same time being unable to satisfy the neglected parent's emotional needs, the child starts to become annoyed at the lack of attention from the distant parent and at all the excessive attention they are receiving from the neglected parent. All of this sends conflicting messages to a child about relationships.

 

In an attempt to satisfy both parents, the child focuses more and more on trying to be "perfect", all without success, and the child eventually begins to believe that they cannot satisfy either parent, and eventually the child sees themselves as inadequate in meeting the emotional needs of another person.

 

Since all attempts by the child fail the child begins to see the neglected needy parent's constant needy behavior as actually being instrusive and controlling and the child then learns to keep people who show them excessive attention at a distance. In this way the child tries to control situations to prevent anyone from giving them too much or too little attention.

 

Unfortunately, when the child grows up and enters romantic relationships, their internal conflicts cause them problems. On the one hand, they want a loving relationship for times when they feel alone/abandoned (that's why he keeps checking your FB and Twitter and suggested moving in), but as soon as the relationship gets close emotionally, their fears of suffocation start to rise up and they panic and they push their partner away until the cycle starts again.

 

Since these beliefs are so deep rooted, you cannot fix him. Even he cannot easily fix them. He needs professional counselling to deal with his past.

 

If this is a relationship you want to be involved in, your challenge will be to ensure you put into place boundaries to ensure that the relationship does not get too close too fast or that it gets too distant. Not an easy task. When he comes around again and shows interest in you, set up a boundary that you will not get involved unless he first seeks professional counselling.

[GreenPolicy]

Very interesting thread. It's not an easy position to be in whether you are a commitment phobic (CP) person or you are the non-CP partner inovled with a CP.

 

 

 

The CP person is acutely aware of this cruel cosmic irony. I don't believe they intentionally set out to abandon their non-CP partner, but it is more a collateral result of the CP trying to alleviate their fear of commitment. But that only leads them to feelings of confusion and extreme guilt for abandoning their partner who has likely loved them and treated them better than any previous partner. Intellectually the CP knows that they are being treated well by their non-CP partner. Everyone tells the CP that they have found the best partner and are so lucky etc... However, none of this alleviates the CP's fears but actually makes them worse. The CP begins to wonder whether something is wrong with themselves but they also struggle to intellectually understand why they act the way they do. Eventually, this leads to the CP making confusing comments to the non-CP to find someone else who they deserve better rather than stick around with the CP. The non-CP cannot make sense of this because the non-CP doesn't recognize the guilt the CP is feeling.

 

But, there is another cruel cosmic irony and that is that the non-CP has a fear of abandonment and the irony is that of all the people the non-CP is attracted to, the non-CP feels most attracted to the CP, the very person most likely to unintentionally abandon them. This is no accident but a subsconscious choice on the part of the non-CP. The reason for this is that the non-CP also has a fear of commitment but it is manifested in a way that as they get closer to their CP partner, the non-CP's fear of abandonment grows. In an attempt to alleviate the fear, the non-CP pulls in the CP in an effort to increase the commitment. Normally one would say, what's wrong with wanting to increase the commitment as it seems the natural thing to do. But, no matter how much committment there is, the non-CP cannot satisfy their fear of abandonment and the non-CP's actions actually trigger the CP's fears resulting in the CP pushing the non-CP away. This sets up a push-pull dynamic.

 

I wrote about this in a post a while back in response to a woman whose b/f was CP (I have quoted the text below). Basically, a CP person has 2 fears. Fear of being suffocated emotionally, but also a fear of abandonment. The non-CP has a fear of abandonment.

 

It's a difficult dynamic to resolve for each partner. Can the situation be resolved? I believe the answer is yes, but it requires therapy. If as a non-CP you were to recongize how hard it is to resolve your own abandonment fears, just imagine that it is probably twice as hard for a CP who has both suffocation and abandonment fears.

 

Here's what I wrote in the other thread which gives some insight on how some CP's became CP. Here is the link :

 

 

Okay, when you talk about suffocation, I treated her pretty much the same throughout the course of the relationship, and we had begun talking marriage about five months in. She initiated the talk just as much as I did, it's not as if I said "Hey I love you and want to get married," and she was like "Uhh, yeah, sure, whatever." She drove that bus just as much as I did, emailing me suggestions for wedding venues, sitting her parents down to tell them I was The One. We took a tour once of a historical home and she blurted out to the tour guide "Do you rent this place out for weddings and receptions?" I know this is something that for the longest time she wanted just as much as I did.

 

Anyways, as far as a timetable went, we never really discussed a firm date, it was more like "Well, I assume two or three years from now we'll be married." As they say, if you love it, put a ring on it. And I didn't want her to feel like I was stringing her along, so I told her of my intentions of getting a second job to pay for a ring. I guess what I'm saying is that when you talk about suffocation, I don't believe I was clingy or needy. I'm a pretty even-keeled guy, my emotions don't fluctuate wildly, and neither does my behavior. I did my thing in the relationship and the feedback I got for it was "I love you and want to marry you." So when you talk about suffocation, you're not talking about everyday behaviors, but simply me taking the next logical step and formally trying to take the relationship to the next level of commitment?

Edited December 22, 2010 by GreenPolicy

[Ajax]

Very interesting thread. It's not an easy position to be in whether you are a commitment phobic (CP) person or you are the non-CP partner inovled with a CP.

 

 

 

The CP person is acutely aware of this cruel cosmic irony. I don't believe they intentionally set out to abandon their non-CP partner, but it is more a collateral result of the CP trying to alleviate their fear of commitment. But that only leads them to feelings of confusion and extreme guilt for abandoning their partner who has likely loved them and treated them better than any previous partner. Intellectually the CP knows that they are being treated well by their non-CP partner. Everyone tells the CP that they have found the best partner and are so lucky etc... However, none of this alleviates the CP's fears but actually makes them worse. The CP begins to wonder whether something is wrong with themselves but they also struggle to intellectually understand why they act the way they do. Eventually, this leads to the CP making confusing comments to the non-CP to find someone else who they deserve better rather than stick around with the CP. The non-CP cannot make sense of this because the non-CP doesn't recognize the guilt the CP is feeling.

 

But, there is another cruel cosmic irony and that is that the non-CP has a fear of abandonment and the irony is that of all the people the non-CP is attracted to, the non-CP feels most attracted to the CP, the very person most likely to unintentionally abandon them. This is no accident but a subsconscious choice on the part of the non-CP. The reason for this is that the non-CP also has a fear of commitment but it is manifested in a way that as they get closer to their CP partner, the non-CP's fear of abandonment grows. In an attempt to alleviate the fear, the non-CP pulls in the CP in an effort to increase the commitment. Normally one would say, what's wrong with wanting to increase the commitment as it seems the natural thing to do. But, no matter how much committment there is, the non-CP cannot satisfy their fear of abandonment and the non-CP's actions actually trigger the CP's fears resulting in the CP pushing the non-CP away. This sets up a push-pull dynamic.

 

I wrote about this in a post a while back in response to a woman whose b/f was CP (I have quoted the text below). Basically, a CP person has 2 fears. Fear of being suffocated emotionally, but also a fear of abandonment. The non-CP has a fear of abandonment.

 

It's a difficult dynamic to resolve for each partner. Can the situation be resolved? I believe the answer is yes, but it requires therapy. If as a non-CP you were to recongize how hard it is to resolve your own abandonment fears, just imagine that it is probably twice as hard for a CP who has both suffocation and abandonment fears.

 

Here's what I wrote in the other thread which gives some insight on how some CP's became CP. Here is the link :

 

westrock: That is 100% spot on to what happened. My ex said soon after we started dating that she didn't want to "lose herself" in a relationship. When we got close she pushed me away. When I gave her space she persued me. And you're right, I was afraid she'd abandon me. Conciously I knew she needed space and intentionally gave it to her, which probably fueled her abandonment issues. And then a week after we both laid out our feeling, saying how much we loved each other (initiated by her) she dumped me... saying she needed to "figure herself out' and that I deserved someone who loved me the way I loved her. It's all there.

 

And then about her parents relationship... also spot on. She told me that her Father, who who's about 20 years older than her mother, was in the process of divorcing his ex wife when he got my ex's mom pregnant with her sister (follow me so far?) they got married and stayed married, but her father was always distant, and her mom latched on to her and her sister for emotional support. My ex always complained about how her mom would butt into her life and talk about how her father and sister didn't care about her.

 

I also heard from a friend that she stopped talking to her mom after she broke up with me. Apparently her mom b!#$%^d at her for letting another great guy get away.

 

Yeah, I loved her. I wasn't going to leave her... it wasn't in the cards. But I guess she couldn't help the way she felt, and someday hopefully she'll get it all straightened out so the cycle can end.

[Ajax]

So when you talk about suffocation, you're not talking about everyday behaviors, but simply me taking the next logical step and formally trying to take the relationship to the next level of commitment?

 

I think when we're talking about people who have these issues, what we consider "normal" relationship behavior and even "next logical steps" are considered suffocating.

 

When my ex started the conversation about how in love with me she was I thought we'd taken things to the next level. I think now that maybe allowing herself to become that vulnerable was what ultimately made her feel later that she had to shut me out completely. The pendulum swung back in the opposite direction with the same momentum.

[GreenPolicy]

I think when we're talking about people who have these issues, what we consider "normal" relationship behavior and even "next logical steps" are considered suffocating.

 

When my ex started the conversation about how in love with me she was I thought we'd taken things to the next level. I think now that maybe allowing herself to become that vulnerable was what ultimately made her feel later that she had to shut me out completely. The pendulum swung back in the opposite direction with the same momentum.

 

That's what I've been told - that with a woman like my ex, eventually you're going to hit that wall.

[i made a mess]

Very interesting thread. It's not an easy position to be in whether you are a commitment phobic (CP) person or you are the non-CP partner inovled with a CP.

 

 

 

The CP person is acutely aware of this cruel cosmic irony. I don't believe they intentionally set out to abandon their non-CP partner, but it is more a collateral result of the CP trying to alleviate their fear of commitment. But that only leads them to feelings of confusion and extreme guilt for abandoning their partner who has likely loved them and treated them better than any previous partner. Intellectually the CP knows that they are being treated well by their non-CP partner. Everyone tells the CP that they have found the best partner and are so lucky etc... However, none of this alleviates the CP's fears but actually makes them worse. The CP begins to wonder whether something is wrong with themselves but they also struggle to intellectually understand why they act the way they do. Eventually, this leads to the CP making confusing comments to the non-CP to find someone else who they deserve better rather than stick around with the CP. The non-CP cannot make sense of this because the non-CP doesn't recognize the guilt the CP is feeling.

 

But, there is another cruel cosmic irony and that is that the non-CP has a fear of abandonment and the irony is that of all the people the non-CP is attracted to, the non-CP feels most attracted to the CP, the very person most likely to unintentionally abandon them. This is no accident but a subsconscious choice on the part of the non-CP. The reason for this is that the non-CP also has a fear of commitment but it is manifested in a way that as they get closer to their CP partner, the non-CP's fear of abandonment grows. In an attempt to alleviate the fear, the non-CP pulls in the CP in an effort to increase the commitment. Normally one would say, what's wrong with wanting to increase the commitment as it seems the natural thing to do. But, no matter how much committment there is, the non-CP cannot satisfy their fear of abandonment and the non-CP's actions actually trigger the CP's fears resulting in the CP pushing the non-CP away. This sets up a push-pull dynamic.

 

I wrote about this in a post a while back in response to a woman whose b/f was CP (I have quoted the text below). Basically, a CP person has 2 fears. Fear of being suffocated emotionally, but also a fear of abandonment. The non-CP has a fear of abandonment.

 

It's a difficult dynamic to resolve for each partner. Can the situation be resolved? I believe the answer is yes, but it requires therapy. If as a non-CP you were to recongize how hard it is to resolve your own abandonment fears, just imagine that it is probably twice as hard for a CP who has both suffocation and abandonment fears.

 

Here's what I wrote in the other thread which gives some insight on how some CP's became CP. Here is the link :

 

Gosh this is so unbelievably pin pointing of how I would feel at any given time during my relationship and me being the CP. My mom and step dad argued SO much through out their relationship. My step dad had 2 ex wives and 3 kids from those marriages, mean while my mom had me with my biological dad who left while she was pregnant with me and got another woman pregnant and married her. Then my mom remarried and along came the sister. My mom had a lot of emotional dealings with my step dad's ex wives and financial issues and always would tell me "never get married", "men are pigs", "marry rich so you never have to worry about money", "never marry someone who has kids or an ex wife". And this started when I was like 8 or 9! That's a lot to take on at such a young age. My mom and step dad would suffocate me. Nothing I ever did was right, I wasn't allowed to make my own decisions, when I did of course I was always wrong, my mom would bring all of her issues to me. To this day, she can't stand the thought of just being at home alone. She wants someone at home with her, even if it's just to sit in the same room and watch TV. I now have a 72 hour rule which is about all I can handle of being around her. I grew up alot faster than I think a child should. I'd have panic attacks at 8 years old, obviously not normal. I know that my past has a lot to do with my present.

 

The push pull you describe is exactly how my ex and I's relationship was. It's like we couldn't find a healthy balance. When we got to close, I'd push away for fear of him realizing that I wasn't this great prize that he made me out to be because in my mind, that's why all the others left me - when he would back off (as I asked him to) I'd miss him so much that thought of being without him would drive me mad. Of course, I couldn't verbalize this as it would make me vulnerable and/or he'd think I was crazy and leave.Thank you for linking your old thread back through. Very good reading and insightful.

[TheGrimSweeper]

Wow I wish I had found this thread sooner.

 

It describes my ex exactly and I just understood her so much better by reading this.

 

She as well has deep rooted fears stemming from her childhoold, her parents almost got divorced when she was 5 (her dad cheated on her mom) but they eventually worked it out and stayed together. Ever since then she has never really opened up or talked to her dad much,

 

Now though her parents are seperating for real (shes now 20) and its once again hit her very hard but its her mom doing the initiating this time. She thinks all relationships are doomed to fail and I think this is why she has such a fear of being in a committed relationship. In her head it seems like no matter what I do or say she doesn't believe me when I say I want to be with her and her alone.

 

She had been slowly pushing me away as her parents seperation grew on, and she ended it with me about 3 weeks ago, saying things like she loves me, will always love me, knows she'll never find anyone like me again and thinks shes making the biggest mistake of her life, but she just needs time to get over her parents and figuring out all these issues shes having. I've gone NC since that very night (much like I made a mess's ex) and haven't said anything. That abandoment - suffocation spectrum idea you talked about above describes her to a tee.

 

She is in therapy now and is trying to get help for it which I'm glad about. I guess she probably might feel like I abandoned her, which I haven't. I was going to send her a christmas card tomorrow, do you guys think it would be a good idea to write at the bottom "PS: I hope you don't think I've given up on you cause I haven't and never will" ?

Edited December 22, 2010 by TheGrimSweeper

[Ajax]

I've gone NC since that very night (much like I made a mess's ex) and haven't said anything. That abandoment - suffocation spectrum idea you talked about above describes her to a tee.

 

 

Yeah this is how mine was. I don't think there's anything we could have done differently that would have changed things. I've found out that my ex is actually planning to move out of state... away from her family and away from her past. When she left me she said she was seeing a therapist, so I'm assuming that she's either quit that or is planning to.

 

 

 

She is in therapy now and is trying to get help for it which I'm glad about. I guess she probably might feel like I abandoned her, which I haven't. I was going to send her a christmas card tomorrow, do you guys think it would be a good idea to write at the bottom "PS: I hope you don't think I've given up on you cause I haven't and never will" ?

 

I'm not sending a card to mine, nor am I going to contact her in any way. You can't tell someone to leave, break their heart, and then accuse them of abandoning you. They may feel as if you abandoned them, but it's not reality... and since we were the dumpees, we need to take care of ourselves now.

 

That's not to say that I'll ignore her if she reaches out, but I will be very cautious as I still have a long way to go before I'm over her.

 

As for the P.S. on your card, I think that might be going a bit too far. She might take it as a sign that you're not moving on, and that might play into her feelings of suffocation. If you send the card I think you should keep the message short and sweet.

[Mrlonelyone]

Well concerning my issue here I can't say 100% that she's a CP. Though some of what was said about a push pull relationship does resonate with me. I would chase her up to a point, loose interest thinking I was wasting my time, then she would turn around and chase me...until I would chase her some more.

 

This behavior went up to and including showing interest in other people to make eachother jealous. (i.e. she gets engaged to someone else, I chase her she lets me catch her... she has a baby engagements off.) Which is why I look at this "relationship" she is in + the things she has said and think hmmm. I know it sounds crazy, but remember I won her from someone she was supposed to marry before.

 

Then when I bought myself a car, with room enough for the three of us, I got dumped and NC'd for no apparent reason. Did she expect me to chase her some more? Does she just like the chase, and I the hunt... or are we just a couple of CP's afraid of abandonment? I guess the thought that we could be together for 72 car payments and more was too much for a 24 year old?

 

She once said to me, at a time when I thought we were finally just comfortable "You only want what you can't have." I thought I did have her and she knew by now I wanted her!

 

"PS: I hope you don't think I've given up on you cause I haven't and never will" ?

 

I would send a card, or an email, or an ecard or something. It cannot hurt, it cost two dollars. It all depends on what's written on the card.

 

i.e. A love poem written by you for her at the stage your at... NO.

Saying "Merry Christmas" yes.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I will not be sending a card to mine as we are Muslims and don't celebrate Xmas like that...

[TheGrimSweeper]

Well concerning my issue here I can't say 100% that she's a CP. Though some of what was said about a push pull relationship does resonate with me. I would chase her up to a point, loose interest thinking I was wasting my time, then she would turn around and chase me...until I would chase her some more.

 

This behavior went up to and including showing interest in other people to make eachother jealous. (i.e. she gets engaged to someone else, I chase her she lets me catch her... she has a baby engagements off.) Which is why I look at this "relationship" she is in + the things she has said and think hmmm. I know it sounds crazy, but remember I won her from someone she was supposed to marry before.

 

Then when I bought myself a car, with room enough for the three of us, I got dumped and NC'd for no apparent reason. Did she expect me to chase her some more? Does she just like the chase, and I the hunt... or are we just a couple of CP's afraid of abandonment? I guess the thought that we could be together for 72 car payments and more was too much for a 24 year old?

 

She once said to me, at a time when I thought we were finally just comfortable "You only want what you can't have." I thought I did have her and she knew by now I wanted her!

 

 

 

I would send a card, or an email, or an ecard or something. It cannot hurt, it cost two dollars. It all depends on what's written on the card.

 

i.e. A love poem written by you for her at the stage your at... NO.

Saying "Merry Christmas" yes.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I will not be sending a card to mine as we are Muslims and don't celebrate Xmas like that...

 

Yes ive decided im going to send a card but going to leave that lovey dovey stuff out of it.

 

Just going to keep it really nice and short and sweet. I'm not going to give it to her in person just slide in under the door of her apt. Basically I just keep feeling like shes waiting for me to make the move and its all on me. Doing this will put it all on her and I know afterward for myself ill be more relieved and can move on easier.

[sally4sara]

Commitment is a heavy undertaking. The whole saying on how you never love as fearlessly as you did the first time comes into play. You end up over the moon for someone who ends up causing so much mess in your life, the reality of a commitment can send you running. The emotional and all too often monetary cost of a poor choice is so high especially when fixing doesn't really fix anything. A divorce can free you of a detrimental partner, but it doesn't often result in your life being what you'd envisioned before you chose that wrong partner. Its like paying out a couple grand to fix your Ford Pinto.

 

So I don't think it is so much a fear of commitment as it is fear of committing to the wrong person. You'll still want that special connection where you can fully accept someone who fully accepts you even to the point of being married. You just may not be trusting of your own instincts after you've experienced a relationship failure.

 

And I'm not sure if a male commitment phobe is different from a female commitment phobe. Both know that once a partner is chosen, other options are *suppose* to be closed to them. That a guy may lament the end of his oat sowing is just another way of saying I'm stuck with whoever I pick - but it is the same for women. We just paint our motivations differently.

[Ajax]

Yes ive decided im going to send a card but going to leave that lovey dovey stuff out of it.

 

Just going to keep it really nice and short and sweet. I'm not going to give it to her in person just slide in under the door of her apt. Basically I just keep feeling like shes waiting for me to make the move and its all on me. Doing this will put it all on her and I know afterward for myself ill be more relieved and can move on easier.

 

I'd mail it to her. You don't want to risk getting caught at her apartment, or her thinking that you're hanging around there.

[Ajax]

Commitment is a heavy undertaking. The whole saying on how you never love as fearlessly as you did the first time comes into play. You end up over the moon for someone who ends up causing so much mess in your life, the reality of a commitment can send you running. The emotional and all too often monetary cost of a poor choice is so high especially when fixing doesn't really fix anything. A divorce can free you of a detrimental partner, but it doesn't often result in your life being what you'd envisioned before you chose that wrong partner. Its like paying out a couple grand to fix your Ford Pinto.

 

So I don't think it is so much a fear of commitment as it is fear of committing to the wrong person. You'll still want that special connection where you can fully accept someone who fully accepts you even to the point of being married. You just may not be trusting of your own instincts after you've experienced a relationship failure.

 

And I'm not sure if a male commitment phobe is different from a female commitment phobe. Both know that once a partner is chosen, other options are *suppose* to be closed to them. That a guy may lament the end of his oat sowing is just another way of saying I'm stuck with whoever I pick - but it is the same for women. We just paint our motivations differently.

 

I think we're making a distinction between healthy fear of commitment (that we all experience to some degree) and a phobia, phobia's being irrational fears. The commitment phobia we're talking about seems to be more of a deep seated psychological issue than simply being afraid to commit to the wrong person.

[sally4sara]

I think we're making a distinction between healthy fear of commitment (that we all experience to some degree) and a phobia, phobia's being irrational fears. The commitment phobia we're talking about seems to be more of a deep seated psychological issue than simply being afraid to commit to the wrong person.

 

Yup. And I felt it after my ex and I split our marriage. Run run run! I believe it is possible to be that way over having seen a couple you looked up to fall apart or after your first love doesn't live up to your initial impression. About the only way I would say there is a difference between what I'm saying and your own take on a less rational commitment phobe is if they've NEVER had a relationship at all or seen one they believed was stable end. I've never met a commitment phobe who didn't know what it is they were avoiding; they had a bad experience and didn't wish to risk a repeat.

[Mrlonelyone]

Sally

 

Here's the difference between what you are saying and what we are talking about.

 

In most all cases these are women who said.

 

"I love you (insert name)"

"I want to marry you"

"Lets look at houses together".

"Lets look at wedding planning books".

"Yes" (To a proposal to marry)

 

 

Then they bolt and often admit "I still love you but I can't love you the way you love me"... or something like that.

[GreenPolicy]

Sally

 

Here's the difference between what you are saying and what we are talking about.

 

In most all cases these are women who said.

 

"I love you (insert name)"

"I want to marry you"

"Lets look at houses together".

"Lets look at wedding planning books".

"Yes" (To a proposal to marry)

 

 

Then they bolt and often admit "I still love you but I can't love you the way you love me"... or something like that.

 

Exactly. They made a commitment already and then went back on it, in a relatively short space of time. My ex started behaving in a distancing fashion about a month before she actually broke up with me. I know she did not contemplate breaking up with me for months on end.

[Ajax]

Exactly. They made a commitment already and then went back on it, in a relatively short space of time. My ex started behaving in a distancing fashion about a month before she actually broke up with me. I know she did not contemplate breaking up with me for months on end.

 

Indeed. A friend of mine said when he asked my ex what happened she said that she literally woke up that day and "had to get out of the relationship." She didn't plan it. She had opened up the week before and allowed herself to be vulnerable... then panicked. I opened up too, and was more vulnerable to her than with anyone else, but I thought that made us closer and that we'd taken things to a new level. This was all after months of being happy together, so it's not like we were rushing things.