Single Mothers In America: Entitled Attitudes?

[Untouchable_Fire]

I feel bad for people who marry just for that reason-- because they couldn't find anyone better-- and even more for the person they married.

I personally plan to keep looking until I meet someone that I consider my equal or better. I will be aiming for advanced degrees past a bachelor's, so that will help me meet another well-educated person... probably. I also have a strong moral code which, while being a bit less strict than my parents' code, will lead me to maintain good behavior and treat him well.

Of course no one wants their significant other to be abusive or unfaithful. I'm not sure if that's a right, though. There are solutions to those problems, at least; the person can attempt to work it out with the other, and if either of those things gets extreme, it becomes a dealbreaker, and they can always divorce. Could someone give an example of what IS a fair right to feel entitled to in a relationship? It would help to have elaboration on this.

 

Haha... GC, you are so level headed and rational that I have no doubt you will find someone great in the future... and he is really going to appreciate you.

 

Here is the deal. Those women who feel they have no need to appreciate positive male behavior are the ones most often entrapped in relationships that are rife with bad male behavior. This happens for a number of reasons most notably the notion that she is entitled to X behavior... and when she doesn't get it... she develops a deep seated emotion need to gain X behavior from the guy.

 

When you choose the women you go out with, you can choose to avoid women whom you find are entitled.

 

As a man dating on the west coast... you just get a choice between different types of entitlement. It's impossible to avoid, unless you are into grandma's.

 

That's good advice. As you know, women once had much less opportunity and choice in the world. Now we are becoming more educated and independent, and I'm sure that will lead to a growing trend of proactive women.

 

It's a positive in that women lead happier lives. Negative in that they proactively make dumber life choices.

[GooseChaser]

Yet, you want chivalry, men to pick up the tab, ask you out on the date, decide where to go, led the relationship... Yep, really equal genders.

Men often prefer to pick up the tab. It makes many of them feel like they're doing something nice for their woman, and it shows that they aren't out platonically.

 

What is chivalry, exactly? Of course good manners always helps, though it isn't expressly demanded. As far as actions such as pulling out a chair or opening a door, there are women out there who are perfectly willing to do those things for themselves.

 

Often men will be the ones to initiate dating. Once the two are in a relationship, though, things can change. It depends on the couple. Sometimes I suppose the man will continue to extend all of the date invitations. In other cases, though, the woman will ask the man out on dates as well. For example, I have been dating a man for two months now, and I have asked him out to a number of them. They include movie nights, a birthday celebration for him at his place, roller skating, and the aquarium.

[GooseChaser]

Haha... GC, you are so level headed and rational that I have no doubt you will find someone great in the future... and he is really going to appreciate you.

 

Here is the deal. Those women who feel they have no need to appreciate positive male behavior are the ones most often entrapped in relationships that are rife with bad male behavior. This happens for a number of reasons most notably the notion that she is entitled to X behavior... and when she doesn't get it... she develops a deep seated emotion need to gain X behavior from the guy.

Aw, thank you!

 

So about your example, the woman feels the need to "change" or "fix" the man, in other words?

 

 

As a man dating on the west coast... you just get a choice between different types of entitlement. It's impossible to avoid, unless you are into grandma's.

In that case, do men just choose a woman with the entitlements that are most acceptable to them? What kind of things are people entitled to? Do some men have things that they feel entitled to?

 

 

It's a positive in that women lead happier lives. Negative in that they proactively make dumber life choices.

Making mistakes is one of the most effective ways of learning. From your wording, though, it sounds like their worse life choices are pretty serious ones?

[zengirl]

So, in your theory, some single mom married a bad boy first (or had a kid with him out of wedlock), thus suggesting her standards weren't high enough, so now you're upset that, having learned from that, her standards are too high. This makes no sense to me.

 

Are these single moms petitioning the government to institute programs to deliver quality men to them? Going up to men in the street, kidnapping them, and saying they deserve them? What makes them "entitled" to a man? Saying you want something and will hold out for it is not entitlement. It's being discriminate. And everyone, regardless of their past, still has the right to choose to be discriminate and pursue only those relationships that are good for them.

[phineas]

So, in your theory, some single mom married a bad boy first (or had a kid with him out of wedlock), thus suggesting her standards weren't high enough, so now you're upset that, having learned from that, her standards are too high. This makes no sense to me.

 

 

Not all single mom's. just apparently the one's I meet through my kid's school.

 

 

Their standards are Rich with no kids.

But, she will let a decent guy waste time & energy on her, bring them around the family & talk to him like she wants a relationship with him, while she is banging the bad-boy secretly. Usually an ex.

 

I've been running into these women more & more at my age.

They all have the same mannerisms, the same dating history, considered black sheep of the family ect.

 

They can't stop talking about an ex their "friends with". seriously?

Buh-Bye.

Edited December 7, 2010 by phineas

[theBrokenMuse]

Quotes from SM pulled from other threads. I weeded out the really crazy ones. More to come later.

Only what you have here isn't crazy. I am a Mom... not a single mother but a mom and the following:

 

"Sarcasm aside, one main thing that men with no children have to understand. You will NEVER be #1. The child/children will always be a priority. If a man can understand this truly and be okay, then you have a shot, otherwise, if your ego can't accept it, you need to move on and let it go."

 

This is 110% correct. A woman's child should ALWAYS come before a guy she is dating. A good mom knows that her offspring absolutely should come before her dates unless and until he becomes a serious fixture, in more than just her romantic life.

 

 

"Some men (and women) really don't get it. It's not all about you. It's about the other person and their needs. In the case of moms, it's about the kids. But, even as a single woman without kids, a man who isn't willing to let his needs take a back seat now and then, who won't help out with simple things, who doesn't get that showing real care and concern for me will buy him more in terms of my time and energy than any amount of money he might spend on me, well...let's just say those guys don't last long. Selfishness is the antithesis of love."

 

This is also 110% correct. Once you get involved with a family dynamic be prepared to have to put your wants on hold now and then because your wants are not always going to be the most important. It's not a possibility, it is a definite that other people's needs are going to come before your own from time to time and if a person is too self-centered to handle that knowledge then they are poorly suited to handle such dynamics.

 

"I have been dating my BF for 19 months. We met at a political function. He had seen me at a previous one with my young daughter. When he asked me out, he said he would be happy to take my daughter as well. About 6 weeks into the relationship, he was trying to do all sorts of stuff for me around the house. I pretty much settled on letting him do the outside work, which he has pretty much taken under his control. He always offers to have my daughter if he is in town and I am going to a meeting. (She just hops on the spare computer and tells him when she is hungry.)

My BF has grown kids on the other side of the country, so he knows a bit about kids and is very patient and understanding with her (and me). I do a lot for him too (when he lets me) and he knows he is dearly loved, desired and appreciated.

I honestly don't think I would want to (or able to) date someone with young ones of their own, as I can get stressed with multiple kids racing about"

 

I am assuming that the bolded part is what you took issue with in the above quote but what some folks that don't have children don't get is that there is a huge change in dynamics between one young child and multiple small children running around. It's much different. Having two at each others throats much of the day, I can understand why someone would prefer the one. UF, just because you consider someone to be an undesirable does not mean they are being unreasonable if they have preferences. I've seen guys with kids who didn't want to date moms with kids too.

 

It's not the insane rants of an entitled lunatic. People know what is most optimally suitable for them and try to find it before making any adjustments to these ideas as needed. How can you possibly fault people for that?

Edited December 7, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[AlektraClementine]

I read a thread recently on whether being a single mom changes your access to men. I noticed most of the younger guys had no interest in dating a single mother long term, while the older men tended to not have hangups about it.

 

The one thing that really caught my eye was the overall attitude of single mothers posting in the thread... and it actually seems to reflect a consistent attitude among the general population of Single Mothers.

 

When I'm going on a date, my attitude reflects my interests in showing my date what I have to offer in a relationship. I silently evaluate the same in my date. This seems to be exact the opposite strategy I see from SM. Which looking back on the few I have dated, I would say all but 1 took a very similar approach to dating.

 

I can understand and wholeheartedly support the impetus to be choosy, but the universe doesn't owe a woman the perfect man simply because she already has a child. It isn't enough to sit and loudly list off what you deserve or desire in a mate... you have to have something to offer in return.

 

Which leads me to the question. Is this attitude defensive posturing due to being perceived by some men as less because of having a child? Is it just an attitude that is really prevalent in the female population because demand is so high that attitude and behavior matter little? Is what she has to offer supposed to be so obvious as to not require the effort of displaying it?

 

 

This is such a tough question to answer since what you're describing is so unlike my own situation when I was a single mom.

 

First, I'll say that I too read and participated in the other thread and the overall feeling I got from reading it was that single moms are not entitled to a decent relationship since they were some how used goods. I'm paraphrasing but that's the impression I got. Granted, I'm a little more prone to taking the defense since I was in fact, a single mom. The comments peppering that thread were quite mean sometimes and obviously meant to degrade and put down single moms. When things like this happen, the person or people being degraded go on the defense. What you saw was probably more of a defense mechanism than an overall sense of entitlement.

 

By the way, feeling entitled to what you want isn't exclusive to single moms. Every single person on the face of the earth has that tendency. And while having a child doesn't not entitle you to the perfect man (whatever that is), every person is entitled to seek out the perfect person for them.

 

I also think that it all boils down to the person you are dating. Becoming a mother doesn't change a woman's fundamental behavior. If she's a good person to begin with, she'll probably stay that way. If she's a ***** to begin with, she'll probably stay that way.

 

In terms of statistics, let me ask you this. Of the single moms you've dated, is the ratio of good to bad so different from the ratio of good to bad non-single moms you've dated?

[Eeyore79]

This is 110% correct. A woman's child should ALWAYS come before a guy she is dating. A good mom knows that her offspring absolutely should come before her dates unless and until he becomes a serious fixture, in more than just her romantic life.

 

This is also 110% correct. Once you get involved with a family dynamic be prepared to have to put your wants on hold now and then because your wants are not always going to be the most important. It's not a possibility, it is a definite that other people's needs are going to come before your own from time to time and if a person is too self-centered to handle that knowledge then they are poorly suited to handle such dynamics.

This is exactly why I never date single parents. I fully understand that their kids have to come first, but frankly I'm not prepared to date someone when I already know that I'm not going to be their priority. I have the option to date someone else without kids, who will make me their priority, so to me that seems like a much better option.

[tincanman99]

Women with kids want a, b, c, d, e, f, g..... blah, blah. Well my first question is what makes you such a prize to have? I dont get it.

 

As far as I am concerned, a woman with kids is baggage that I dont need nor want. I have met women with kids I would not mind fooling around with but as far as being in a long term relationship, why would I?

 

I am single, with no baggage of any kind (kids or ex-wife). Why would I want to put up with some other guy's brats? Assume financial responsibility for them? No thanks.

 

Its not that I am selfish and self centered but rather dont want to be on hook for someone else's problems.

[AlektraClementine]

Women with kids want a, b, c, d, e, f, g..... blah, blah. Well my first question is what makes you such a prize to have? I dont get it.

 

As far as I am concerned, a woman with kids is baggage that I dont need nor want. I have met women with kids I would not mind fooling around with but as far as being in a long term relationship, why would I?

 

I am single, with no baggage of any kind (kids or ex-wife). Why would I want to put up with some other guy's brats? Assume financial responsibility for them? No thanks.

 

Its not that I am selfish and self centered but rather dont want to be on hook for someone else's problems.

 

See? This is a fine example of what I'm talking about. I think there's a way to have this discussion without degrading people.

 

"What makes you such a prize" "Baggage" "Someone else's problems" "Brats"

 

This is exactly the type of thing that makes people feel defensive. And again, why aren't single moms entitled to seek out a mate that's right for them? I'm so confused by the suggestion that they aren't entitled to a preference.

[theBrokenMuse]

Women with kids want a, b, c, d, e, f, g..... blah, blah. Well my first question is what makes you such a prize to have? I dont get it.

Once again, this is not a hard concept to get... People have preferences even if you personally do not consider them to be a desirable and some of the time they are able to find others that match those preferences. If not then they need to tweak their preferences while still accounting for compatibility, just like everyone else.

 

Having baggage of any stripe does not magically make someone a lesser person to the extent of not deserving the opportunity to search for a compatible partner in life and anyone who wants to argue that it does is so smug and clueless that they live completely outside the scope of reality.

Edited December 7, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[sally4sara]

You know, I have really poured over my own end of how things went bad between my ex and I. He wasn't a "bad boy" when we met. He drank, sure. So did many others of my friends. That he was/is an alcoholic was not apparent back then because we were so young.

 

His father had told him his whole life he was going to play professional sports and that was all he readied him for in life. That was the goal. When he was in college and on one of the school teams, he found the drinking habit. The pro sports thing felt through and he just drifted, no direction.

I met him right after that.

 

I came from a very religious family that promoted early marriage. That I was dumb when I said yes at age 19 when he asked for my hand is obvious to me now. But it was normal and in line with the example of my family at the time.

As the problems with drinking became more obvious, I didn't know how to handle it well. I'd never known an alcoholic before. I was impatient and couldn't understand why he wouldn't just stop drinking. It seemed like such an easy thing to do to me that month by month after that first year, I began to lose all respect for him. That light of admiration in my eye that had made him feel good about himself was dying out. He was letting me down and he knew it. He was young too and short on coping skills. He began to seek out other women that didn't know him well enough to know his flaws.

 

THAT was when he began being a "bad boy". After we were already married.

 

Do I believe I am entitled to more than that? Damn skippy. Not just because I exist, but because I should be with someone who gives as much as I am giving. That doesn't change just because I have a kid. It becomes even more important that I settle for nothing less because I have a kid.

 

That I didn't have my own father growing up, I knew the worth of one by feeling that void. Who my father was/is was not what I needed; it was probably for the best that he took off. But if he'd been a better man, my mother might have been a different mother to me. One less worn out, stressed, and impatient. I knew full well what the void of no father in both my life and her life resulted in. And I watched her, out of desperation, marry another even worse choice to try to give me a better life. When I realized I was going to be a single mother, I swore I'd not choose so desperately for me and my son. The stakes were too high. A poor choice would have been worse than no one at all.

[Untouchable_Fire]

His father had told him his whole life he was going to play professional sports and that was all he readied him for in life. That was the goal. When he was in college and on one of the school teams, he found the drinking habit. The pro sports thing felt through and he just drifted, no direction.

I met him right after that.

 

We all know those guys from Highschool and College. Some of my very good friends from highschool are raging alcoholics like this... they mostly work in construction now.

 

I have a feeling that this is the exact type of guy most of the men here are referencing when talking about bad boys. I would wager to guess that he fit into the jock class in highschool.

 

I played football, tennis, and wrestling... so I had lots of friends like that. Though my best friends were more what you would call the "preps" or rich kids. Mostly because we all attended private schools in k-8.

 

Anyway... I have several friends who intended to go professional at sports, one is in the NFL today... the others work construction and are heavy drinkers.

 

That I didn't have my own father growing up, I knew the worth of one by feeling that void. Who my father was/is was not what I needed; it was probably for the best that he took off. But if he'd been a better man, my mother might have been a different mother to me. One less worn out, stressed, and impatient. I knew full well what the void of no father in both my life and her life resulted in. And I watched her, out of desperation, marry another even worse choice to try to give me a better life. When I realized I was going to be a single mother, I swore I'd not choose so desperately for me and my son. The stakes were too high. A poor choice would have been worse than no one at all.

 

There is a lot of room between making a poor choice, and making a good one.

 

No offence, but most of the people I know who didn't have an active father in their life... have no idea what they missed. It's like seeing a hole, and knowing what shape it is... but not knowing what is supposed to fit there.

 

I have an amazing father. You have no idea how much I appreciate that. I don't sit around thinking... well... that's what he is supposed to be. I fully understand the effort that he put into my sister and I.

 

Addiction is a big problem, it's no fault of yours that your XH was an alcoholic. Were you older and wiser... I'm sure you would have seen it coming a mile away. Fortunately, today you have a solid guy. Appreciate that. Most of the women I see divorcing today have silly to no reason for divorce.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Fatuous. Useless.

 

People want love and companionship and they try and hope to find it. Parsing this out as an undeserved entitlement is mean.

 

Maybe someone actually thinks she can get what she wants. She feels like she deserves it. Is she being uppity? Does it upset your vision of fairness? Do you disapprove?

 

What's it to you really?

 

So true, this.

 

There are "entitled" people, creepy people, losers, and those who you simply don't want to get involved with in every segment of every population. Why get up on your soapbox (again) to denigrate an entire group?

 

Guys not wanting to date single mothers ... no problem.

 

Single mothers who want what they want in a relationship ... no problem there, either.

 

For the record, I believe that the most entitled population in the known world is white American males, and that y'all are just butt hurt that some other groups are grabbing some of the gimmes that used to be only reserved for you.

 

And, for the record, I am extremely turned off by "entitled" behavior from anybody. Also by whining and vast, lame generalizations about ANY group.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Most of the women I see divorcing today have silly to no reason for divorce.

 

Off topic, but why don't you post a poll asking women for their reason for divorce? It would be interesting to see what segment of the LS female, divorced population ended up that way for a silly reason or none.

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is such a tough question to answer since what you're describing is so unlike my own situation when I was a single mom.

First, I'll say that I too read and participated in the other thread and the overall feeling I got from reading it was that single moms are not entitled to a decent relationship since they were some how used goods. I'm paraphrasing but that's the impression I got. Granted, I'm a little more prone to taking the defense since I was in fact, a single mom. The comments peppering that thread were quite mean sometimes and obviously meant to degrade and put down single moms. When things like this happen, the person or people being degraded go on the defense. What you saw was probably more of a defense mechanism than an overall sense of entitlement.

By the way, feeling entitled to what you want isn't exclusive to single moms. Every single person on the face of the earth has that tendency. And while having a child doesn't not entitle you to the perfect man (whatever that is), every person is entitled to seek out the perfect person for them.

I also think that it all boils down to the person you are dating. Becoming a mother doesn't change a woman's fundamental behavior. If she's a good person to begin with, she'll probably stay that way. If she's a ***** to begin with, she'll probably stay that way.

In terms of statistics, let me ask you this. Of the single moms you've dated, is the ratio of good to bad so different from the ratio of good to bad non-single moms you've dated?

 

Ok... just because a woman is a good person does not mean she will be good in a relationship. I've dated several women that were fantastic people, but terrible as a GF. My cheating xGF volunteers assisting homeless children.

 

I agree that most people seem to be entitled in some way. The difference I see is that Single Moms have this tendency to focus on what a guy has/can do for them, without ever really reflecting upon what they have to offer. It might possibly be that there are so many men interested in dating them, that they don't have to have to show anything positive about themselves.

 

Also... if your child is/was/ and always will be #1 in your life... your going to be a terrible wife and or mother to any new child you may have. You can't put your kid behind just any geek off the street, but if you find someone who you want as a long term partner and potential step father... you will have to shift priorities if you want things to work. Also, I take issue with mothers who play favorites... you can't hold one child above the others. I see that done a lot.

 

Now... you asked about my personal experience with single mothers. I had a 2 year relationship with one. We work for the same company but in different divisions, so I see her all the time. She is a great person, but we struggled for several reasons. She is very materialistic at heart... and it takes a long time to realize that about her. Kind of like Kobe Bryants wife... if you give her a big enough diamond she would forgive you for anything. Additionally, I bonded well with her son... we did lots of fun stuff together. I taught him how to play baseball, took him to the arcade, spent large amounts of time helping him learn to read... ect. When we broke up I missed him more than his mother. I still feel that loss from time to time. I don't have any children of my own to fill that void.

 

I mean... dating single moms is tough not because the first few months are hard. Actually they are way better, because you don't usually have to worry about games and garbage. It's what happens when things go really well that makes it tough. Even if you marry a single mother... the chances of divorce later are crazy high... about 15-20% higher than the normal divorce rate. Plus so many of them cheat with the baby daddy down the road... you always feel like a fake parent... ect.

 

Dunno... it just seems to me that if you have kids, you should go after guys who also have kids or who don't want kids. That's a personal choice of course. But at least acknowledge that the universe isn't required to spit out the perfect man.

[donnamaybe]

For the record, I believe that the most entitled population in the known world is white American males, and that y'all are just butt hurt that some other groups are grabbing some of the gimmes that used to be only reserved for you.

 

And, for the record, I am extremely turned off by "entitled" behavior from anybody. Also by whining and vast, lame generalizations about ANY group.

You ROCK MC!!!!

[Untouchable_Fire]

For the record, I believe that the most entitled population in the known world is white American males, and that y'all are just butt hurt that some other groups are grabbing some of the gimmes that used to be only reserved for you.

And, for the record, I am extremely turned off by "entitled" behavior from anybody. Also by whining and vast, lame generalizations about ANY group.

 

You have mistaken expectations for entitlement. WASPy men expect a lot of themselves. That isn't the same as entitlement... because they work for it. Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world, worked hard to get there, is donating his entire fortune to making the planet a better place for everyone. Perfect example of an entitled white guy.

 

I can kind of understand where your coming from because of the whole aging hippy thing... and you guys were all about hating white guys "the man". That's just Don Quixote types out chasing windmills though. You should realize that the world isn't really like that. However... I can still kind of understand the overall lack of perspective because you probably don't know any poor minorities.

 

OH... one side note since we are speaking about ethnicity. South American people are the absolute least entitled of anyone I know, as a group.

 

Off topic, but why don't you post a poll asking women for their reason for divorce? It would be interesting to see what segment of the LS female, divorced population ended up that way for a silly reason or none.

 

There will always be a gap between the truth and what is perceived. Polling female LS members about their divorce will undoubted skew way farther towards perceived truth than actual truth.

 

Example:

Perceived Truth, "My husband was unaffectionate, unloving and verbally abusive"

Actual Truth, "A buildup of resentment on both sides caused a chain reaction of anger resulting in constant screaming at each other and fighting. Rather than put in the effort to try to break the cycle or fix it... I chose to just take everything and go."

[donnamaybe]

Oh, I get it. The OP's opinion is valid because HE is the one who thinks it, but everyone else is "lacking perspective."

 

I know people like that IRL too. I try to know them as little as humanly possible.

[sally4sara]

We all know those guys from Highschool and College. Some of my very good friends from highschool are raging alcoholics like this... they mostly work in construction now.

 

I have a feeling that this is the exact type of guy most of the men here are referencing when talking about bad boys. I would wager to guess that he fit into the jock class in highschool.

 

Thats not what I've seen in any description of what makes a guy a "bad boy" type. Its the cocky, care for no one else attitude and stringing girls along with lies till they get what they want kind of guy that fits that description. That was not him. If he had been, why would he have been so marriage motivated at 20? He also wasn't a hateful person. That came later with the heavy drinking and self loathing. Who he was when we met was a young guy who had lost his path but good-natured. And yes, an older and wiser me probably would have seen that he lacked the practical life and coping skills that caused him to get lost in the bottle.

 

 

No offence, but most of the people I know who didn't have an active father in their life... have no idea what they missed. It's like seeing a hole, and knowing what shape it is... but not knowing what is supposed to fit there.

 

I have an amazing father. You have no idea how much I appreciate that. I don't sit around thinking... well... that's what he is supposed to be. I fully understand the effort that he put into my sister and I.

 

Addiction is a big problem, it's no fault of yours that your XH was an alcoholic. Were you older and wiser... I'm sure you would have seen it coming a mile away. Fortunately, today you have a solid guy. Appreciate that. Most of the women I see divorcing today have silly to no reason for divorce.

 

I have no reason to take offense over what you saw out of other people who, like myself, didn't have their father in their life. That wasn't me.

 

What I take offense to is the implication that I should have left off of wanting a good partner because I had a child. That I was somehow a lower life form due to it. That I wanted to be a single mother all along and didn't respect the role of fatherhood enough. Or that my husband is stupid for getting involved with me because I somehow have nothing to offer him or any man for that matter.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You have mistaken expectations for entitlement.

 

No, I haven't. I'm quite well versed in the difference.

 

 

 

There will always be a gap between the truth and what is perceived. Polling female LS members about their divorce will undoubted skew way farther towards perceived truth than actual truth.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, if it was a good enough reason for her to get divorced, it does not qualify as "no reason" or "silly."

 

Example:

Perceived Truth, "My husband was unaffectionate, unloving and verbally abusive"

Actual Truth, "A buildup of resentment on both sides caused a chain reaction of anger resulting in constant screaming at each other and fighting. Rather than put in the effort to try to break the cycle or fix it... I chose to just take everything and go."

 

That's YOUR perception; or "perceived truth," since you love that term so much.

 

There is no reason on Earth why anyone here should think your take on it should supersede that of the woman actually involved in a specific failed marriage, especially with your very outspoken and blind bias.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Oh, I get it. The OP's opinion is valid because HE is the one who thinks it, but everyone else is "lacking perspective."

I know people like that IRL too. I try to know them as little as humanly possible.

 

Good chance you don't Know Anybody then... since we all operate off of personal bias and opinion.

 

Just because you think something is true... doesn't mean that it is. When regarding marriage splits... the actual truth typically lies between both perceptions.

[sally4sara]

OH... one side note since we are speaking about ethnicity. South American people are the absolute least entitled of anyone I know, as a group.

 

I agree if we're talking about the willingness to break their backs, working multiple jobs at once rather than expecting a hand out. I admire that and I see it in both men and women from that culture. I've seen examples contrary to that, but less so than other cultures.

 

But the interpersonal dynamic between men and women isn't so rosy. I don't for one second believe it is all due to their ethnicity or genetics or that every Hispanic man treats his wife as lesser to himself. But it is an underlying theme to that culture; the double standard and that women should follow their lead by right of the gender they were born to. Expecting to dictate to others for something they didn't earn (such as being born male) IS the very definition of entitlement.

[AlektraClementine]

Ok... just because a woman is a good person does not mean she will be good in a relationship. I've dated several women that were fantastic people, but terrible as a GF. My cheating xGF volunteers assisting homeless children.

 

What I meant was more along the lines of "a single mom who has a skewed sense of entitlement has probably always had one".

 

I agree that most people seem to be entitled in some way. The difference I see is that Single Moms have this tendency to focus on what a guy has/can do for them, without ever really reflecting upon what they have to offer. It might possibly be that there are so many men interested in dating them, that they don't have to have to show anything positive about themselves.

 

Where are you meeting these single moms? Where do you see these specific types of single moms.

 

Also... if your child is/was/ and always will be #1 in your life... your going to be a terrible wife and or mother to any new child you may have. You can't put your kid behind just any geek off the street, but if you find someone who you want as a long term partner and potential step father... you will have to shift priorities if you want things to work. Also, I take issue with mothers who play favorites... you can't hold one child above the others. I see that done a lot.

 

I don't get this. I prioritize my family. That used to just be my children. Now that I am remarried, he is included in this unit. My children have not become less of a priority. It's about family. Until you have one of your own, this may be hard for you to understand. "Terrible Wife and mother"? How on earth do you know these things without any experience in this kind of situation? What a gross misunderstanding and generalization. Please tell me that at least you have a little experience. Maybe a mother who divorced, remarried, and had you later with the step father after she had her "first tier" children. I'm sorry, I must sound terribly mean right now. But I have to be honest, your generalizations are really striking a chord with me. I feel like you are trying your hardest NOT to understand all there is to know about single moms.

 

Now... you asked about my personal experience with single mothers. I had a 2 year relationship with one. We work for the same company but in different divisions, so I see her all the time. She is a great person, but we struggled for several reasons. She is very materialistic at heart... and it takes a long time to realize that about her. Kind of like Kobe Bryants wife... if you give her a big enough diamond she would forgive you for anything. Additionally, I bonded well with her son... we did lots of fun stuff together. I taught him how to play baseball, took him to the arcade, spent large amounts of time helping him learn to read... ect. When we broke up I missed him more than his mother. I still feel that loss from time to time. I don't have any children of my own to fill that void.

 

No, I asked about the ratio of bad single moms to good ones vs the ratio of bad childless women to good ones, that you've dated. Put it in terms of mathematics and statistics. My theory is that the numbers would be the same and you just have an aversion to dating a woman with kids. Which is certainly your right and with that, I've no issue.

 

I mean... dating single moms is tough not because the first few months are hard. Actually they are way better, because you don't usually have to worry about games and garbage. It's what happens when things go really well that makes it tough. Even if you marry a single mother... the chances of divorce later are crazy high... about 15-20% higher than the normal divorce rate. Plus so many of them cheat with the baby daddy down the road... you always feel like a fake parent... ect.

 

 

Oh lord. Before I can even respond to this, please show me some data that supports these numbers.

 

Dunno... it just seems to me that if you have kids, you should go after guys who also have kids or who don't want kids. That's a personal choice of course. But at least acknowledge that the universe isn't required to spit out the perfect man.

 

 

This thought is non-sequitor. The first part is an opinion about what single moms should do. The second part does not follow the first. What is the perfect man? Again, I say "why is a single mother not entitled to find the perfect man for her"?

[Untouchable_Fire]

What I take offense to is the implication that I should have left off of wanting a good partner because I had a child. That I was somehow a lower life form due to it. That I wanted to be a single mother all along and didn't respect the role of fatherhood enough. Or that my husband is stupid for getting involved with me because I somehow have nothing to offer him or any man for that matter.

 

You must be referencing another poster. I didn't even imply any of the above, nor do I believe it to be accurate.

 

What I was trying to say is that there are more choices available than just good and bad. Sometimes people take the middle road.

 

When I look at potential relationships... I tend to evaluate personality traits and risk factors. If I deem the risk factors outweigh the personality traits... I either won't pursue further or will dump. Otherwise full steam ahead. Already having a child is not the greatest risk factor out there.