What's best for me/her?

[Steadfast]

...but I won't, because everyone knows how it ends.

 

The cell phone was a major component in my wife's affair, and to this day I vividly recall the sinking feeling I felt when I finally got my hands on that thing. I'm glad now...as hard as it was to uncover my wife's cheating ways (and the heartache of not knowing who she was anymore) I needed to see, feel and taste what she had become. It all played a part in my eventual decision to start my life over. It's hard, but what choice does one have?

 

When she's here, it continues to chime away. But...so does mine.

 

The old saying "No good deed goes unpunished" is truism but we can't let it affect our decisions. It takes strength to remain steadfast and do the right thing, and we must remember the reward for that comes from the inside out; not the other way around. In your case, you were taken advantage of, and your wife knows this. Her justification for it notwithstanding.

 

The unquenchable desire to 'know' is something you need to work through, but I maintain that you probably won't get much -if any- info from her. When someone is elusive, there's a reason. Expecting her to just come clean all the sudden is probably unrealistic, but I agree; you must find out what her motivation is. People don't hide what they're not ashamed of.

 

Sadly, the long hugs, sighs, and tear-filled eyes is also something I have experience with, but only after I moved on. Before that she was cold and rebellious. Only she can express what she felt and/or is feeling now, but since I'm writing this and not her, I can only say that isn't love. At least, it didn't feel like the kind of love a wife should have for her husband.

 

Women, especially wives and mothers, don't walk out on men they are in love with. Even if for nothing more than taking the risk of losing them to someone else. When a wife packs her bags and leaves, you can take it to the bank that she's put a good amount of thought into it. No one can be 100% sure about any of this, but the odds of your marriage surviving this -whether she tells you why or not- are not good. I'd suggest leaving her alone. You stand a better chance of getting the truth from her if you do.

[starting2wakeup]

So much to talk about.

 

Well it happened. Sooner than even I thought it would. My W "poked" me on FB Monday - of all the annoying things on the internet, FB's "poking" has got to be in the top 5 - so I logged on to see if she was still online. She was. I asked if she was still planning on picking up the girls after school. She said that she was still very tired but that she would be able to pick them up. She then asked if I still wanted to talk. I told her that I did but I knew she wasn't feeling well, and since I would rather talk face to face, I suggested we wait until she was feeling better. She said she wanted to talk and asked if I could come by for lunch. I was excited to get it all off of my chest so I agreed. She told me she "missed" me and said she would see me later.

 

Driving to her place I prepared myself, in that I knew that I might not get the (whole) truth, or at the very least, I was going to get her version of the truth. I also prepared myself for the worst, an admittal that everything I had been told was true.

 

First I told her what I had heard was said in the nursing class. That a student had told the whole class that she had opened up to him about leaving her husband and how excited she was to be traveling to D.C. to see this new man. She didn't deny that such a conversation happened, but she did claim that it did not go down like that. She admitted mentioning to this guy that she was recently separated and that she was traveling for her new job, but claims to have said nothing about her going because she was interested in someone else.

 

I then told her about her close friend and what she had said, that she felt, from the way my W had been talking, that the relationship between her and her new employer was something more. This devastated her. Not so much what was said, but because who had said it. She denies that there is anything going on between her and her boss. She said that she wished she could find a different job but that this was all that she knows. I wanted to say BullS**t, but I didn't. All that you know? I helped pay for you to take a nursing class not a year ago, of which you graduated at the top of your class. If you hadn't burned so many bridges in said class you could be getting paid more for a part time job than I do now with a full time one. Again, I didn't say that.

 

Throughout the hour long conversation one sentence really stood out. She said, "If I could be in a relationship, I would want it to be with you." I'm not sure how to read into that one. "If" is the word that bothers me. She has admitted that she doesn't want a relationship. Well, what about if she's not in relationship? Could that be her way of justifying seeing other people? She was also very upset that none of her friends had or were standing by her and that none of them were willing to take the time to talk to her. No one seems to believe or understand why she is doing what she is doing, which is something I still don't understand. She also mentioned how upset it made her feel that everyone assumes something was/is wrong with her. No one ever thinks that it was me that was her reason for leaving or that it was my fault for the separation. That's because it wasn't!

 

I also asked about Christmas morning. Did she do that because she missed me, was that my present, what was it? She said it was because she missed me and that she felt "comfortable" with it, before and after. Looking back, I was fine with before and during but after, after has left me confused as all Hell.

 

I had my first IC session yesterday. It was difficult but necessary. I go back at the end of the month. The councilor said that my W's pattern is rather typical for someone who was sexually abused for a prolonged period of time by a relative. She said she needs help and until she gets that help, until she comes to terms with her past and herself, things with her, within herself, may never change. She didn't use the word enabler but came to the conclusion that I was/am in many ways one. It's hard to admit, but it makes sense. I tried to help my W in any way I could, even when it caused me heartache. The councilor also said that I had to stop raising 3 children. That hit hard. My W is acting like a teenager. She is acting out against those who love her. Eventually she will "grow up" and see what she had, how much I cared for her. The councilor asked, "now looking back, if she were to come back, if she wanted to reconcile, is that the kind of person you would want to be with?" I love my W but the answer to that question, is no.

 

After the IC my W informed me that her employer was being forced to retire early. This meant that she would be losing her job soon, as well as her place to live. Wow. Really! I'm not 10 minutes out of my IC and I get thrown this test! I listened to her as she cried but I did not offer any suggestions. I did not get involved. It's not my problem. If she can't take care of the girls, I will. They can always stay with me. Hell, I've been watching them now for 3 weeks straight. I'd be more than happy to watch them for the next 30 years.

 

I am very, very confused. What's best for me will/may not be what's best for her. I have spent so many years focused on helping her, showing her that I love her, showing her that she is safe; I'm not sure I know how to turn that focus inward. I know if I go as far NC as I can with her, as far as any couple with kids can, that she is going to have a rough time. She will have zero support system. But it's not fair to me. Her stress, her interactions with me, at least of late, are confusing and it's preventing me from working on myself.

 

I'm sad. Not depressed, just sad. The choice I need to make, the one that makes the most sense for me, the one that ensures that my kids have a father they can look up to and depend on, it's a choice I have dreaded. One I realized weeks ago I might have to make, but I was too scared to admit it. It's one I'm scared to commit to. I told the councilor that in my mind one of two things will happen if I stop contact with her. 1) absence makes the heart grow fonder or 2) out of sight, out of mind. They said I was still thinking of her. What about me? I need to worry and focus on what will/might happen to me, not her.

 

This is such a strange feeling. To have been handed a map to potential happiness and still feel lost.

Edited January 7, 2011 by starting2wakeup

[norm28]

I had my first IC session yesterday. It was difficult but necessary. I go back at the end of the month. The councilor said that my W's pattern is rather typical for someone who was sexually abused for a prolonged period of time by a relative. She said she needs help and until she gets that help, until she comes to terms with her past and herself, things with her, within herself, may never change. She didn't use the word enabler but came to the conclusion that I was/am in many ways one. It's hard to admit, but it makes sense. I tried to help my W in any way I could, even when it caused me heartache. The councilor also said that I had to stop raising 3 children. That hit hard. My W is acting like a teenager. She is acting out against those who love her. Eventually she will "grow up" and see what she had, how much I cared for her. The councilor asked, "now looking back, if she were to come back, if she wanted to reconcile, is that the kind of person you would want to be with?" I love my W but the answer to that question, is no.

 

I had this same conversation with my therapist back in Oct. 2009. I had put up with 2 EA's and 1 attempted EA from my wife. She had a similar experience in her childhood for 4 years. I begged her to get help because I knew that was the root of our problems. Hell, I told her for years to get help BEFORE any problems. Flash forward a year, she never got help, started and affair with a married man (she's his boss) and I was gone. A few weeks later, ahe moved him in with her and my 2 kids. In the end, she'll probably lose her job, be alone, and have a LOT of work to do in repairing the damage done to my kids.

 

I know how you feel, I wanted desperately to help her deal with what she had bottled inside for years, but in the end she is responsible for the choices she made. I know it hurts, but if they aren't willing to confront the root problem in their lives, it will never get better for you.

 

I just came to the conclusion that I wasn't gonna be anybodys 2nd choice, their Plan B, their fall back anymore. I deserve better and so do you!! As I type this my wife is calling me for the first time in 4 weeks, but it's going to voicemail. It sucks, believe me I know it sucks, but at some point you have to do what's best for you and your kids and just let her go. Good luck!!

[Duckduckgoose]

You know what is best in this situation, you hinted around at it in your last post.

 

Your heart is shredded right now, and you are kicking into survival mode, where the logical overcomes the emotional.

 

It seems like your wife is just going to keep dragging you through emotional hell. Don't let her.

[debtman]

Yeah, FB is a horrible thing. I've hidden my W's posts, but I still see them when someone else comments on them and I'm looking forward to getting the papers signed and getting the D final so I can block her. Don't want to do it before because I know it will make her angry. She'll say "Well, I always post pics of the kids on there" but I'd rather not see those because most of her posts just bother me. Plus, I know it's only a matter of time before she starts posting the OMs pics on there (as soon as his wife signs their separation papers, I'm sure).

 

I know how you feel. One minute my W is nice, we're joking around, the next minute she starts throwing in little jabs that she knows will make me mad just to start an argument so she can tell me that "This is exactly why we are getting divorced." i.e. it's all my fault.

 

I never bring up the fact that she's the one cheating on me, she's the one that said it was over, she's the one in the house with the kids.

 

I try to do NC as much as possible, but it's hard with the kids and with her in the house because she's always sending emails about things that need to be fixed, the kids schedules, etc. and she gets mad if I don't answer. I told her that neither of us have the time to spend the time we do arguing in email and I'll call her later, but she keeps sending emails until she provokes me.

 

I need to move back to NC and just talk with her in person, in front of the kids, because that's the only way we don't argue.

 

We BOTH need to remember that THEY made their decisions. THEY did NOT think of us (no matter how much they say they did) and now, they need to face the consequences. If they don't, it will NEVER change, they will never address what's wrong and the kids will suffer for it as they go through a string of bad relationships (as Steadfast can attest to).

 

norm28 is exactly right, and my wife started sleeping with her EA two weeks after I moved out of the house, even though she had told me several times in the weeks leading up to me leaving that she and the OM were WAY to ethical and moral to even consider anything beyond friendship.

 

Nothing you can do to help her. She wants you to be her crutch, her punching bag, she knows you've done it in the past and she wants you to do it again. You can't fix her, she can only fix herself and it doesn't sound like she's willing to do that. What_Next and surfer203 are dealing with their W's in MC and IC and trying to work through things and they can attest to how hard it is. I can't do that, even if my W wanted it (she has told me before that she would stop seeing OM if I moved back into the house). I will NOT set myself up to go through this again. I'm just beginning to see the "end of the tunnel" and getting past the initial emotional shock. The kids are getting more "used" to the idea of seeing us individually and I'm looking FORWARD to moving on.

 

There are certainly hard times, rough patches, especially late at night, no kids, in my parents house...uggg. BUT it's a TEMPORARY situation that is going to have nothing but positive outcomes for me and the kids.

 

That's my 2 cents man. There's lots of "fish" in the sea. And they're not all crazy... You deserve to be treated better than she treated you and you won't be if you go back to her.

 

Good luck...

[norm28]

Yeah, FB is a horrible thing. I've hidden my W's posts, but I still see them when someone else comments on them and I'm looking forward to getting the papers signed and getting the D final so I can block her. Don't want to do it before because I know it will make her angry. She'll say "Well, I always post pics of the kids on there" but I'd rather not see those because most of her posts just bother me. Plus, I know it's only a matter of time before she starts posting the OMs pics on there (as soon as his wife signs their separation papers, I'm sure).

 

At least she has some decency, my wife was postling about the OM right after I left the house, and this past week she posted pics of them from New Year's. Her OM hasn't even filed for divorce yet!!

 

norm28 is exactly right, and my wife started sleeping with her EA two weeks after I moved out of the house, even though she had told me several times in the weeks leading up to me leaving that she and the OM were WAY to ethical and moral to even consider anything beyond friendship.

 

They'll say whatever they think you wanna hear, won't they? After I found out she had slept with him, I asked when it happened and she even lied about that. I mean, I already know, so why lie. Well, in her case it was because they had sex in her office at school. I can't prove it, but he wrote her a note at school saying "too bad you didn't wear a skirt today" Now, my wife has a beautiful face, but she's about 80 lbs. overweight. Not trying to insult her, but it's obvious the skirt comment wasn't about her gourgeous legs

[debtman]

You're better off blocking her (she will probably block you back, but, I'm telling you, it makes it easier going NC if you don't have the option to go snoop in moments of weakness), not checking her texts, email, etc. Let it go. It's the hardest thing (other than dealing with kids) but it will make it easier to cut ties, move on and will show her that you're done with her...

[starting2wakeup]

norm28, you are absolutely right. Until my W confronts and deals with her problems, I see little hope for a reconciliation. It kills me to think that the best thing I could do for her would be to walk away. Her past is in no way her fault. I'm speaking of course of the sexual abuse she endured as well as the years of being neglected by her parents. But, she's an adult (though she may not always act like one) and she is making her own choices and I need to start making my own, WITHOUT her in mind.

 

duckduckgoose, I do feel the survival mode kicking in. I felt it before but it was derailed on Christmas thanks to my W. It does feel a little different this time. I'm sadder. Maybe because the realization of my situation is taking a firmer hold. She is hurting me, even when she is not around. I can't go on like this.

 

debtman, I hid her profile and posts on FB months ago, though I still admit I peak at her page during times of weakness. I would like to just delete and block her but until a divorce is in place, I think it is best to leave things as are and just not look at her page. My phone is set up to notify me of FB comments/posts/etc. It was through my phone that I received the "poke". I have not "poked" back. I may just need to go ahead and disable this feature on my phone.

 

You are so right in that they do not think about us. I spoke with my W briefly today and the whole conversation was about her. She was mad at me because she thought I was agitated with her. Once I explained that that was not the case, she went into a 8 minute pitch of some new idea she had to make money before hanging up abruptly because she had to go. I didn't say anything about her idea, which I'm sure will cost her more money that she'll make, I just let her talk. When she hung up I just felt used. I was just a talking board. She was treating me as friend, if that. Well, I don't want to be her friend and I don't want to hear about her day, especially when my day is going sh*ty.

 

My IC told me to ask my parents why I feel this need to help my W, even though it hurts me, as I obviously learn it from somewhere. My mom quite quickly said it was her and I can see this. It's difficult admitting behavior in yourself that is less than attractive but sometimes (and this is one of those time) its necessary.

 

I do not have the girls next week and I am trying to preplan to make it a week of personal growth. Exercise, writing, eating better, etc. Still, walking away from my W, the woman who I considered my best friend for well over a decade... it's a really tough pill to swallow.

[starting2wakeup]

So I just noticed my W's car - her new one, the one she bought 30 minutes after I signed over the car that was already paid for - across the street. Apparently this new business venture of hers involves my neighbor. Boy do I feel sorry for her, my neighbor that is. She has no idea what she is getting herself into.

 

So here's what bothering me. It's not that she's across the street but, my girls saw her car. They knew she was over there. They asked to go over and see her but I told them that now was not a good time because she was working. They understood and went right back to playing. I didn't say anything about her coming over but I did assume that she would. I figured she would want to see her kids. I know I would. Well she didn't. She just drove off. Now, I'm sure I'm reading into this, but it bothers me. You are across the street. You're only a few paces from your kids and you don't even call to see how they are doing?

 

Maybe she was working hard. Maybe she didn't want to bother me/us. Maybe she has her head so far up her @ss she can't think of anyone but herself, but here is what I realize; I'm thinking about her again. I'm worrying about why she didn't stop to see the girls and that doesn't do me any good. So I'm posting and moving on. Or at least I'm posting in hopes that it helps me move on. I have to figure a way to get through this, especially if she is going to be across the freak'n street now.

[starting2wakeup]

My... Our anniversary is next Monday. 7 years. We've been a couple for going on 12. I'm compelled to ask her out, see if she wants to have dinner. I'm not looking for anything particular, a romantic encounter or reconciliation, I just feel like the day should be acknowledged. But then again, maybe it shouldn't. I just don't know. Thoughts?

[robf1971]

My... Our anniversary is next Monday. 7 years. We've been a couple for going on 12. I'm compelled to ask her out, see if she wants to have dinner. I'm not looking for anything particular, a romantic encounter or reconciliation, I just feel like the day should be acknowledged. But then again, maybe it shouldn't. I just don't know. Thoughts?

 

Please don't acknowledge it... If she calls you so be it, but don't just sit at home get out and try to put it out of your mind. Pursuing is not the way forward in this situation.

[robf1971]

So I just noticed my W's car - her new one, the one she bought 30 minutes after I signed over the car that was already paid for - across the street. Apparently this new business venture of hers involves my neighbor. Boy do I feel sorry for her, my neighbor that is. She has no idea what she is getting herself into.

 

So here's what bothering me. It's not that she's across the street but, my girls saw her car. They knew she was over there. They asked to go over and see her but I told them that now was not a good time because she was working. They understood and went right back to playing. I didn't say anything about her coming over but I did assume that she would. I figured she would want to see her kids. I know I would. Well she didn't. She just drove off. Now, I'm sure I'm reading into this, but it bothers me. You are across the street. You're only a few paces from your kids and you don't even call to see how they are doing?

 

Maybe she was working hard. Maybe she didn't want to bother me/us. Maybe she has her head so far up her @ss she can't think of anyone but herself, but here is what I realize; I'm thinking about her again. I'm worrying about why she didn't stop to see the girls and that doesn't do me any good. So I'm posting and moving on. Or at least I'm posting in hopes that it helps me move on. I have to figure a way to get through this, especially if she is going to be across the freak'n street now.

 

Forget trying to read anything into what she is doing, she probably doesn't even know why herself. The only thing you can control is your actions.

[starting2wakeup]

robf1971, thank you for your comments. I was really on the fence about our anniversary but I think you are right, I should leave it up to her. She is the one who walked away from the marriage, not me. Me asking to acknowledge a date that may no longer have any meaning or significance, at least to her, may be pointless.

[debtman]

starting2wakeup,

 

While I certainly understand your desire to "recognize" your time together with her, I think it will just look like a "need" for her on your part and will make you look more needy, which, from the sounds of it, is what she wants.

 

I certainly understand how difficult it is when the other person just "turns off" the relationship after such a long time, but there's NOTHING you can do that will fix the problems they have and no way you can convince them that they made the wrong decision.

 

The BEST thing you can do is move on, get out, get a hobby, make new friends, get involved, focus on self-improvement.

 

If you keep going back and looking for answers from her, you'll never get them.

 

One of the best pieces of advice I've gotten through this was from my mom who said "She's not your wife anymore, that relationship is dead, bury it. All she is to you now is a co-parent, let her go."

 

But it ain't easy. Just like losing any friend. But, if you had a male friend who, suddenly, after 10 years told you they didn't want to hang around you and do things with you anymore, you'd let it go and move on.

 

There's lots of fish in the sea, ones that aren't screwed up and don't need you to validate them. Best thing you can do, for yourself and your kids, is find your direction again, get happy with your life and move on.

 

Good luck...

[starting2wakeup]

Today is my 7th wedding anniversary. I saw my W early this morning when she came by my office to pick up our girls. They don't have school today so she asked if she could take them to a museum. I thought this was a great idea. When she got to my office she came straight to me, told me "Happy Anniversary" and we kissed.

 

It's been a rough 6 months since my W asked for a separation. After some hard introspection I wanted to share what I feel I have learned so far. I welcome/encourage comments as it has been with the help of LS that I have come to such conclusions.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I have it all figured out. Today in particular, I feel very sad. 7 years ago to the day I was a very happy man, marring the woman of my dreams. I still love that woman. I love her as much today as I did the day I said "I do". But this is where life has taken me, and if I don't learn from my mistakes I am afraid I will be dammed to repeat them. And I do not wish to relive this pain, ever.

 

My W has more baggage than a snowed-in airport on a holiday weekend. She also has more medical conditions than the last 3 seasons of "House" combined. Obviously I am exaggerating but that is how it feels. She has had to deal with multiple trauma's throughout her life, starting at a very young age. She has also had to deal with numerous medical issues, averaging 1 surgery and 2 ER trips per year. I always thought that I could take care of her, no matter what. So much so that it may have come across as me trying to control her life. I understand that now. My intentions were noble but considering that no one from her past, in particular her parents, have ever given her the kind of love and understanding that every human being deserves, I can see where my desire to take care of her might have felt overpowering. I still want to take care of her but I realize now that there are limits to what I can, and in some cases should do.

 

In the months leading up to our separation my W lashed out like a teenager. She rebelled against those who cared for her the most. She drank, not always to excess but it was clear she was drinking to "get away". She would stay out late at night and would generally find any excuse to get away from the house. Or at least that's how it felt to me. Having been a teenager myself, I can relate somewhat to this behavior. I think to a certain degree anyone can. When I was a teenager I thought I had it all under control. I had everything figured out. Damn what my parents had to say. Sure, they had the benefit of experience and only wanted the best for me, but screw that, I'm going to do what I think will make me happy. Looking back, this is how my W reacted. I was the parent, always voicing my opinion and letting her know what I think she should do, and she was the teenager, doing what she wanted, when she wanted. I think this behavior did eventually catch up to her and she eventually realized that the way she was acting was only causing her and her family pain, but by that point she was lost in herself.

 

She has on more than one occasion said that she did not feel like other wives. I tried to explain that there was no right or wrong way to feel like a wife. I tried to explain that a marriage is what we made it, but it never sank in. She had/has no reference point. Her parents are, to put it nicely, horrible people. I thought I could change her opinion on marriage. I would show her a life that she had only dreamed of. And in many ways I did. But I'm no therapists and I'm not her parent. Me attempting to take on those roles in her life was ill advised and probably pushed her away more than it did help her or us. And she needs help. Admitting to myself that I can not give her this help, that she needs to find it on her own if she is to ever heal, was not an easy pill to swallow.

 

I asked my mother, at the request of my IC, where I might have learned this behavior from. Why do I have this overwhelming desire to help, even when it causes me pain? She, without hesitation, said from her. She protected me growing up. Made everything seem as if it were all fine and dandy, even when it wasn't. My father never came to my ball games or school functions, he was too busy working. My mom admitted that she lied about where he was, why she was at the school play or the basketball games and he wasn't. She made it OK that he wasn't around. She was, in her mind, protecting me from heartache and pain. I have done the exact same things with my girls. When their mother was out late at night, I lied about where she was. I couldn't tell them that Daddy was tucking them in by himself for the 8th straight night in a row because mommy was out doing, God knows what. I made it OK that she wasn't around. While I will always do what I feel is best for my girls, I don't want to teach them the same behavior that has, by my own admission, caused me great pain.

 

I take full ownership of the mistakes I made in our relationship. Lord knows I wish I knew then what I know now. That being said, I was willing to work on our marriage and my W was not. I am trying to forgive my W for her past actions. I don't know that I have or ever will but I have accepted them and their consequences. I will however never forget them. There is no question, I was neglected, and in many ways I was taken advantage of. I will never let her or any other woman do that again.

 

None of this is easy. It hurts, deep. But what I was doing, what I have been doing for the last few years, it wasn't getting me any where.

I can't keep doing things that hurt me. And I can't make her get the help and the treatment that she needs. I can support her decisions when I think they are positive and I can choose to keep my mouth shut and not get involved when I don't agree with her choices. And that's the hardest part, not getting involved. I love her, she's the mother of my children and has been my best friend for well over a decade and when she tells me she is getting ready to do something stupid, something that in my mind will only bring her more pain and heartache, it is HARD to not say anything. She has to learn. She has to make her own mistakes just like I have to make mine.

 

I recently told her that I loved her but until she was serious about IC and MC that I couldn't keep doing things that hurt me. I didn't tell her I was giving up on us or that I no longer wanted to see her, but that I was working on me. I realized my faults in the marriage and was working on being a better me for me. I want to be a better person. I want to be a better father. I do not want to pass down destructive traits and behavior to my children. I think she understood. In the same conversation, after I was done talking, she said said that she feels like she has nothing to offer. I told her she did. I wouldn't want to be with her if she didn't.

 

I need to work on not being so needy. I need to realize that I can only control myself. I need to accept that we, my W and I, may not end up together. I'm not giving up on her. She is the mother of my children. Next to my parents, she has helped me grow more than any other person I know. If she needs me, I will be there. But right now, I need me and that's a feeling I don't think I have felt before. I'm not quite sure how to handle it, but I'm damn well going to try.

[starting2wakeup]

I'm having a terribly hard day, mainly because of work.

 

My W texted me last night, " Just wanted to say I love you". She also called this morning, just because. I'm not reading into her text or why she called this morning. I'm just doing my best to stay focused on me. My situation at work right now is however very stressful. In the past I would go to her with these kinds of issues and she would help, but I don't feel like it would be appropriate right now. I miss my best friend.

 

Sorry for the brief rant. I'm just under so much stress right now. I needed to get that off my chest.

[trippi1432]

Today is my 7th wedding anniversary. I saw my W early this morning when she came by my office to pick up our girls. They don't have school today so she asked if she could take them to a museum. I thought this was a great idea. When she got to my office she came straight to me, told me "Happy Anniversary" and we kissed.

 

It's been a rough 6 months since my W asked for a separation. After some hard introspection I wanted to share what I feel I have learned so far. I welcome/encourage comments as it has been with the help of LS that I have come to such conclusions.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I have it all figured out. Today in particular, I feel very sad. 7 years ago to the day I was a very happy man, marring the woman of my dreams. I still love that woman. I love her as much today as I did the day I said "I do". But this is where life has taken me, and if I don't learn from my mistakes I am afraid I will be dammed to repeat them. And I do not wish to relive this pain, ever.

 

My W has more baggage than a snowed-in airport on a holiday weekend. She also has more medical conditions than the last 3 seasons of "House" combined. Obviously I am exaggerating but that is how it feels. She has had to deal with multiple trauma's throughout her life, starting at a very young age. She has also had to deal with numerous medical issues, averaging 1 surgery and 2 ER trips per year. I always thought that I could take care of her, no matter what. So much so that it may have come across as me trying to control her life. I understand that now. My intentions were noble but considering that no one from her past, in particular her parents, have ever given her the kind of love and understanding that every human being deserves, I can see where my desire to take care of her might have felt overpowering. I still want to take care of her but I realize now that there are limits to what I can, and in some cases should do.

 

In the months leading up to our separation my W lashed out like a teenager. She rebelled against those who cared for her the most. She drank, not always to excess but it was clear she was drinking to "get away". She would stay out late at night and would generally find any excuse to get away from the house. Or at least that's how it felt to me. Having been a teenager myself, I can relate somewhat to this behavior. I think to a certain degree anyone can. When I was a teenager I thought I had it all under control. I had everything figured out. Damn what my parents had to say. Sure, they had the benefit of experience and only wanted the best for me, but screw that, I'm going to do what I think will make me happy. Looking back, this is how my W reacted. I was the parent, always voicing my opinion and letting her know what I think she should do, and she was the teenager, doing what she wanted, when she wanted. I think this behavior did eventually catch up to her and she eventually realized that the way she was acting was only causing her and her family pain, but by that point she was lost in herself.

 

She has on more than one occasion said that she did not feel like other wives. I tried to explain that there was no right or wrong way to feel like a wife. I tried to explain that a marriage is what we made it, but it never sank in. She had/has no reference point. Her parents are, to put it nicely, horrible people. I thought I could change her opinion on marriage. I would show her a life that she had only dreamed of. And in many ways I did. But I'm no therapists and I'm not her parent. Me attempting to take on those roles in her life was ill advised and probably pushed her away more than it did help her or us. And she needs help. Admitting to myself that I can not give her this help, that she needs to find it on her own if she is to ever heal, was not an easy pill to swallow.

 

I asked my mother, at the request of my IC, where I might have learned this behavior from. Why do I have this overwhelming desire to help, even when it causes me pain? She, without hesitation, said from her. She protected me growing up. Made everything seem as if it were all fine and dandy, even when it wasn't. My father never came to my ball games or school functions, he was too busy working. My mom admitted that she lied about where he was, why she was at the school play or the basketball games and he wasn't. She made it OK that he wasn't around. She was, in her mind, protecting me from heartache and pain. I have done the exact same things with my girls. When their mother was out late at night, I lied about where she was. I couldn't tell them that Daddy was tucking them in by himself for the 8th straight night in a row because mommy was out doing, God knows what. I made it OK that she wasn't around. While I will always do what I feel is best for my girls, I don't want to teach them the same behavior that has, by my own admission, caused me great pain.

 

I take full ownership of the mistakes I made in our relationship. Lord knows I wish I knew then what I know now. That being said, I was willing to work on our marriage and my W was not. I am trying to forgive my W for her past actions. I don't know that I have or ever will but I have accepted them and their consequences. I will however never forget them. There is no question, I was neglected, and in many ways I was taken advantage of. I will never let her or any other woman do that again.

 

None of this is easy. It hurts, deep. But what I was doing, what I have been doing for the last few years, it wasn't getting me any where.

I can't keep doing things that hurt me. And I can't make her get the help and the treatment that she needs. I can support her decisions when I think they are positive and I can choose to keep my mouth shut and not get involved when I don't agree with her choices. And that's the hardest part, not getting involved. I love her, she's the mother of my children and has been my best friend for well over a decade and when she tells me she is getting ready to do something stupid, something that in my mind will only bring her more pain and heartache, it is HARD to not say anything. She has to learn. She has to make her own mistakes just like I have to make mine.

 

I recently told her that I loved her but until she was serious about IC and MC that I couldn't keep doing things that hurt me. I didn't tell her I was giving up on us or that I no longer wanted to see her, but that I was working on me. I realized my faults in the marriage and was working on being a better me for me. I want to be a better person. I want to be a better father. I do not want to pass down destructive traits and behavior to my children. I think she understood. In the same conversation, after I was done talking, she said said that she feels like she has nothing to offer. I told her she did. I wouldn't want to be with her if she didn't.

 

I need to work on not being so needy. I need to realize that I can only control myself. I need to accept that we, my W and I, may not end up together. I'm not giving up on her. She is the mother of my children. Next to my parents, she has helped me grow more than any other person I know. If she needs me, I will be there. But right now, I need me and that's a feeling I don't think I have felt before. I'm not quite sure how to handle it, but I'm damn well going to try.

 

Sw2 - This is probably the healthiest post I have seen on LS in a long time. You have gained so much perspective on your situation, yourself and your marriage. LS needs LIKE button!!

 

One of the things that I have learned over the the past year that helped me with my work stress is very much like you pointed out here...just to bring it up since you indicated that the stress was a problem at work....it's okay not to be the one in control there too, we don't have to parent at work...make people who are responsible the ones who ARE responsible. Not sure if that helps, but I had to learn (and am still learning) that I can't rescue everyone....including my children. I have to let people learn from their mistakes....even myself included at times.

 

You are on a good path Sw2...this post is so encouraging...thank you for posting it.

 

Trippi

[starting2wakeup]

Trippi, Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I do feel like I have a better grasp and perspective on my situation, but realizing something and acting on it are two different things. I am still struggling to process everything. Writing it all out certainly helped, though it did result in a rather long post. I have struggled more in the past few days than I did in the last few weeks, but I think it may have to do with the fact that I am more self aware.

 

Today my W came over, just for an hour, to see the girls. I actually went grocery shopping once she got to my place so I really only saw her for maybe 20 minutes. I could tell she was very down. Very sad. She had mentioned how tired she was of the cold weather and how she longed for a hotter climate, even though she knew she would then complain about how hot it was. I knew her place didn't have a bathtub, so I thought it might be nice to to let her use mine one night. She use to love mine/our bathtub. I could run her a hot bath and... and then I caught myself. I'm thinking of her. Would it be a nice gesture to let her have access to what was her bathroom/bathtub for the night so she could relax? Sure. But would it cause me heartache? Damn skippy! It would confuse me, confuse her and just the thought of her naked in... the point is, I acknowledged my thought, as it was forming, as being detrimental. I have this overwhelming desire to take care of her, but I keep telling myself, you've been down that road. It's a struggle but I'm working on it. I'm trying to work on me. It's just not something I'm use to.

 

As far as work goes, my job is one in which when things fall apart, I get the blame. Even if it's not my fault, and usually it's not, I'm the one that gets yelled at. It's hard. I try to do a good job. I try to help people but there are some people you just can't help. Honestly, I hate my job. From the very bottom of my soul, I hate me job. But it helps pay my bills. It helps feed my kids. And I'm lucky enough to have a job that allows me to get off early every other week so I can be with my girls. I do know I can't do it much longer. It's simply to stressful and I am simply too unhappy. I've read other threads where people recommend that those going through a separation or divorce throw themselves into their work as a distraction. I'd rather throw myself under a bus. Anyway, work is a separate issue. One I plan to bring up in my next IC session.

 

Thank you again Trippi for following my thread and giving your 2 cents. It is greatly welcomed and appreciated.

[starting2wakeup]

Seeing as I have a habit of dragging out a post I will try my best to keep this one informative and brief. And let me say upfront, I welcome all comments, advise and other words of wisdom as my situation has, well, let me just get straight to it.

 

My W texted me last night just after 10 PM. "Still awake?" I texted back, "Yes. Everything OK?" She then called and... God, where to begin. We were on the phone for a good hour. I listened while she talked, answering only when she asked a question. I could tell by the tone in her voice that she was very emotional. She asked how did I see her. Was she just another girl. I told her "no", not at all. She said she felt like I had changed so much, that I was a different person. I told her I was the same man. I'd like to think I was more aware of myself, that I was growing as a person but that I was the same man. She said that she felt like she was changing. I'm paraphrasing but she said she was starting to acknowledge that her past behavior and actions were, well, they didn't get her anywhere. Her choices hadn't made her any happier nor wiser. She asked if I wanted to get to know her. I took a moment, and said yes. What did she have in mind. She wasn't sure but that she had never lost interest in me. She felt something every time she saw me and whenever she heard my name. She asked if she could come by my office; she actually asked to make an appointment, which I did, for today.

 

So today, just before lunch, she came by my office. We talked for about an hour and a half. She wants me to get to know her and she wants to get to know me. I asked how did she want to go about this and she really didn't know. She asked if she could spend more time with me. I agreed that it would be nice to see her more but was upfront with how I felt. I told her, the way you are talking it sounds like you are wanting to be friends. I don't want that. I want more. I told her I did feel like both of us have changed/grown and that that was normal. People grow and so do families. I want my family back. She agreed and understood, I did not want to be just friends. I also told her that physically I felt like I couldn't approach her. I didn't know where that line was with her and I didn't like the way it felt. She seemed to understand. I kissed her before she left. We just stood there after, looking into each others eyes. She smiled.

 

I don't want to get me hopes up. I'm done doing things that will hurt me and assuming everything is going to turn out alright is definitely a path toward pain. I asked if she would be up for MC and she was somewhat hesitant. That I didn't like. She said she wanted to take it slow and see what happens. I know I need to keep my focus on me no matter what. I had a really hard week last week trying to do just that but I am hopefully making progress. I have an IC apt later on this week and boy will I have a lot to discuss.

 

Given all that has happened in the last 24 hours, I thought I would be a lot more confused than I am. That's not to say that my mind's not reeling, but I was upfront and honest with her. And I was honest with myself. I do want my family back. I do still love my wife. But I can not lose focus. That rollercoaster analogy I read so much about on these boards is spot on. Up and down. Up and down. One day she doesn't want to live with me anymore, another day she wants to get to know me.

[tojaz]

Like I tell so many people here, the rollercoaster is on both sides of the fence, not just with those of us left behind.

 

This is going to be an uncertain time for both of you, but your getting a gift that many here don't get. It may not be a second chance, you may even find that you don't want one, but your going to get some answers to the whys and the hows. I honestly give your wife a great deal of respect for going this route, whatever the outcome may be, this is the best way and healthiest way to go. Good luck to you S2W and keep us posted.

 

TOJAZ

[starting2wakeup]

I've been thinking more about my W's comment, that I seem like a different person. I told her that I wasn't, but looking back on the past year and a half, well, maybe I have changed. Actually, I don't think I have changed so much as I have grown up. It was a gradual process that arose, for a large part, out of necessity. I've mentioned before that My W acted like a teenager for the last year of our marriage and I think that is a fair comment. While she was lost in herself, I stepped up as a parent, taking care of our daughters and other day to day tasks that my W once did. I grew a lot in that time period, as I have since the separation began, and since she was never around for that I probably do seem different to her. I'm sure as Hell not taking any $h!t anymore. I'd like to think that she has come out of her fog and is starting to grow herself but assuming that is dangerous. I can tell she is still confused, but she's trying. She's working on herself. What I need to do, and it's easier said than done, is to continue to work on me while being mindful of her. At least I think that's what I need.

 

I think I am more scared now than I was when my W first brought up the idea of a separation. It's difficult trying to keep everything in perspective. Toajz, you're right, I may not want to be with her. I may get to know her and find out she has become someone that I am no longer attracted to/interested in. I do have that fear. I know I still feel anger and resentment toward her past actions. I'm not dwelling on them, that does me no good, but they are there. Their are issues and circumstances from our past which have not been addressed. Some of them I know I should move past but others need to be discussed. I know now is not the time but... I'm never going to forget them, and I know that.

 

I like the idea of her wanting to get to know me and her opening herself up so that I can get to know her but moving forward from all of the pain is, well, I'm not quite sure how to do it. I want to, for me. I'm tried of feeling hurt, of feeling lonely. And I miss her but... I'm more scaried than confused right now. Just getting that out there.

[starting2wakeup]

One more thing. I am having an issue that I'm betting many here may be able to relate to. Or maybe not.

 

I have had a recent influx of physical desires/needs. It's something that has been building over the last few weeks. Save for Christmas day, I haven't been physical with my W (or anyone else for that matter) since last May/June. TMI, I know, but it's really starting to get to me. These feeling, these physical urges seemed to have been revved up my W recent behavior. She appears to genuinely be expressing an interest in me, in wanting to get to know me and be around me more and well, parts of me are responding to that.

 

There are two problems as I see it with all of this. (1) I don't think she is quite ready for a physical relationship. She still has a lot of work to do personally and a large part of that comes from the sexual abuse she experienced in her youth. I have not mentioned anything to her (though she has smiled at me and acknowledged when things "pop up") and I'm not sure that I should. I certainly don't want to come across as pushy, needy, aggressive or all of the above. But (2) she wants to spend more time with me. Time as a family and time where we can just talk, and I'm down for that. But I'm afraid I won't be able to focus if I'm staring at her cleavage the whole time. I guess I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing in front of her. Being too sexually suggestive or randy unintentionally. Saying something stupid because all of the blood that was in my brain is rushing away from it.

 

I know I don't have to have sex but the urge for some form of physical contact is... it's not overwhelming but it's an itch I can't seem to scratch, and yes, read into that as you will. I want to be honest with her and myself but don't know quite how to approach it. Or if it should even be approached. I'm going to bring this all up in IC tomorrow and see what advise I get there. Right now I'm thinking, acknowledge it but keep it to myself. I don't want to do something stupid and ruin, as tojaz put it, "a gift that many here don't get".

[tojaz]

I've been thinking more about my W's comment, that I seem like a different person. I told her that I wasn't, but looking back on the past year and a half, well, maybe I have changed. Actually, I don't think I have changed so much as I have grown up. It was a gradual process that arose, for a large part, out of necessity. I've mentioned before that My W acted like a teenager for the last year of our marriage and I think that is a fair comment. While she was lost in herself, I stepped up as a parent, taking care of our daughters and other day to day tasks that my W once did. I grew a lot in that time period, as I have since the separation began, and since she was never around for that I probably do seem different to her. I'm sure as Hell not taking any $h!t anymore. I'd like to think that she has come out of her fog and is starting to grow herself but assuming that is dangerous. I can tell she is still confused, but she's trying. She's working on herself. What I need to do, and it's easier said than done, is to continue to work on me while being mindful of her. At least I think that's what I need.

 

I think I am more scared now than I was when my W first brought up the idea of a separation. It's difficult trying to keep everything in perspective. Toajz, you're right, I may not want to be with her. I may get to know her and find out she has become someone that I am no longer attracted to/interested in. I do have that fear. I know I still feel anger and resentment toward her past actions. I'm not dwelling on them, that does me no good, but they are there. Their are issues and circumstances from our past which have not been addressed. Some of them I know I should move past but others need to be discussed. I know now is not the time but... I'm never going to forget them, and I know that.

 

I like the idea of her wanting to get to know me and her opening herself up so that I can get to know her but moving forward from all of the pain is, well, I'm not quite sure how to do it. I want to, for me. I'm tried of feeling hurt, of feeling lonely. And I miss her but... I'm more scaried than confused right now. Just getting that out there.

 

In a way, its a paradox. You will never forget the past, many say they can, but thats BS. Yet your trying for a sort of fresh start. You can decide how much influence the past has over you though.

 

You summed it up my friend, She wants you both to get to know each other again. As you are now. Thats a very honest way of looking at things, because you both have changed over the years and even just in the last few weeks/months.

 

Put things in their place S2W. The past will always be there, it can be addressed at your leisure, where you are in the present is not always going to be there. This is for all purposes a brand new relationship. Two people learning about each other and seeing where they fit in each others lives.

 

Besides, if the present doesn't work out, the past doesn't much matter now does it.

 

One more thing. I am having an issue that I'm betting many here may be able to relate to. Or maybe not.

 

I have had a recent influx of physical desires/needs. It's something that has been building over the last few weeks. Save for Christmas day, I haven't been physical with my W (or anyone else for that matter) since last May/June. TMI, I know, but it's really starting to get to me. These feeling, these physical urges seemed to have been revved up my W recent behavior. She appears to genuinely be expressing an interest in me, in wanting to get to know me and be around me more and well, parts of me are responding to that.

 

There are two problems as I see it with all of this. (1) I don't think she is quite ready for a physical relationship. She still has a lot of work to do personally and a large part of that comes from the sexual abuse she experienced in her youth. I have not mentioned anything to her (though she has smiled at me and acknowledged when things "pop up") and I'm not sure that I should. I certainly don't want to come across as pushy, needy, aggressive or all of the above. But (2) she wants to spend more time with me. Time as a family and time where we can just talk, and I'm down for that. But I'm afraid I won't be able to focus if I'm staring at her cleavage the whole time. I guess I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing in front of her. Being too sexually suggestive or randy unintentionally. Saying something stupid because all of the blood that was in my brain is rushing away from it.

 

I know I don't have to have sex but the urge for some form of physical contact is... it's not overwhelming but it's an itch I can't seem to scratch, and yes, read into that as you will. I want to be honest with her and myself but don't know quite how to approach it. Or if it should even be approached. I'm going to bring this all up in IC tomorrow and see what advise I get there. Right now I'm thinking, acknowledge it but keep it to myself. I don't want to do something stupid and ruin, as tojaz put it, "a gift that many here don't get".

 

WoW, you people actually read my rambling!!! I think you answered your own question there S2W. Take a cold shower and let it happen naturally, you both know each other in that department, you'll know when its right.

 

TOJAZ

[starting2wakeup]

A lot has gone down since I last posted, both good and bad, but here is what is bothering me, right now. I woke up last night at around 3:00 AM with the worst sore throat I have ever had in my life. I felt like I was going to die. Like someone had taken a knife and stabbed my throat from the inside repeatedly. I was up for an hour, trying everything I could think of to help the pain to no avail. I have the girls this week and all I could think of while rocking back and forth in agony was, "there is no way I am going to be able to take care of them." My body ached, I felt like $h!t and the last thing I wanted to do was pass on what ever bug I had to them. My parents are out of town, so I couldn't call them and my W was suppose to leave first thing in the morning to go to D.C. for work, for the last time, according to her. I knew that when the sun rose if I still felt the same I would need to see a doctor right away. I sent my W a text that simply said "very sick" and laid back down. I knew she would see it when she woke up and would call. Hopefully we could figure something out, as far as the girls were concerned.

 

Much to my surprise she texted me right back, "did you just send this?". We then proceeded to text back and forth for about 10 / 15 minutes. Why was she up at 3 in the morning too? According to her she was up having panic attacks. About what, she wouldn't say. Her texts were, scary. She was "freaking out" - her words - but wouldn't tell me why, and while that bothers me, what is really getting under my skin...

 

I did not in the slightest expect her to take care of me in any way, but I did expect her to step up and offer to take care of the girls, as I have done more times than I can count in just the last 6 months alone. Actually, that's not true. I keep a record of every time I have to watch the girls because she is sick, so I know exactly how many times. I will and have dropped the world to help when she was sick. If for whatever reason she felt like she couldn't give the girls proper care I would step in and help. For the first time, in years mind you, here I am needing help and she has none to offer. And it burns. I understand she has a job to do. I can respect that, but she knows I would not ask for help unless I truly needed it. I needed her help today, not as a wife but as a co-parent. I got nothing.

 

I was able to call my doctor and get some pretty heavy duty meds today. I didn't go to work and did my best to keep the girls at arms length, which is so hard. They want a hug and all I can do is half-ass it. I do not want to get them sick.

 

Again, much more has happened since my last post but this, this stings. I feel like it has set things back. It's certainly not attractive behavior.

 

She called once she got to her destination in D.C. to let me know she got there safe. "I'm going to eat, take a bath and then probably go to bed". "Ok, well I'm going to curl into a ball, fight back tears of pain and pass out, oh wait, I can't do that, I have two daughters to raise." Obviously I just thought that. I did tell her that we needed to talk, and we do.

[Steadfast]

These are the tough things we sometimes face as single parents. Only those who have paid the dues can relate. And I have, or do actually, on a daily basis as a full time, 24/7 single parent.

 

At this point in my life I really try to understand the 'feelings' of those struggling with emotional pain regarding romantic and marriage relationships, but when kids are involved it is game over in my mind. Good parents DO NOT place personal wants and needs above their children. Ever. I've heard every excuse and they all fall short. They are compromise. In too many cases advise is given to ease the adviser's guilt; and not what is genuinely best for the children.

 

My cheating ex's comment on the well being of our kids? "They'll adapt." Well, yeah, of course they will. What choice is there? This is the cold, cruel reality of self-seeking gratification and selfishness at it's lowest, most unattractive level.

 

But it's a 'right' you understand. To be 'happy'. Reality exposes it as a lie, and a trap. To destroy. And it does, but instead of the betrayed it is the betrayer who ultimately pays the price. The hardened heart will eventually shatter and when it does, there is no fixing it. All that remains is bitterness, shame and blame...which is needed to cope with one's self.

 

I hold out hope for you and your wife. No one is perfect. Still, your anxiety and doubts about her motivation, actions and dedication speak volumes. Do we quit on people, or do we simply quit waiting for them to do what's right? That's a question I'd like to see discussed-

Edited February 3, 2011 by Steadfast