What's best for me/her?

[updown]

i do believe she loves you. but it's that whole " not in love with you" kind of love. women love. that's what we do. it could be, and this is MY opinion, that her love is like what she would feel towards her absolutely best friend in the world. she'd tell that friend she loves them. probably every time she saw them. she'd call them and rely on them when she felt she needed to.

 

this is just MY opinion mind you, but i don't think the two of you will be getting on the same page regarding your marriage any time soon. if she was looking to work on fixing things, she would be calling you for help. when we have an emotional connection to our husbands, we ask them for help. when we have a dear friend, we MIGHT ask them for help. it's different. granted, it could be that she knows how you feel and therefore she is trying to do what you ask but is cautious about it at the same time....... like she doesn't know WHAT your reaction will be with her various requests.... does that make sense?

 

vacation sounds perfect. just what you need right now :-) and you're right, she has made this bed for herself. she's a big girl. if she needs help, she'll figure out how to get it.

[starting2wakeup]

i do believe she loves you. but it's that whole " not in love with you" kind of love. women love. that's what we do. it could be, and this is MY opinion, that her love is like what she would feel towards her absolutely best friend in the world.

 

updown, I am her best friend in the world. She has told me this on numerous occasions. You have a very valid point and I can't thank you enough for your continued support. I read your post just before seeing her on Thursday and rather than assume, I asked her about this.

 

 

Thursday when I picked up the girls from my wife's place, she gave me a look that I haven't seen in a long time. I asked her what she was thinking and she said it was nothing and sort of shrugged it off. Before I left with the girls I asked her, when said she loved me, did she mean as a friend, or something more. She said something more, more than just a friend. She then said it was like family. I stopped her there. I told her we would always be connected through our daughters as a family, but that what I wanted was to be the man in her life. I basically restated what I have said numerous times before. She understood what I was saying, I did not want to be just friends.

 

I asked her when her appointment with the hematologist was on Monday, the day I am scheduled to leave on vacation with the girls. She had an early morning appointment. I told her I wanted to go with her. She seemed to like the idea but did not want to interrupt our vacation plans. I told her it was not a problem. I will go with you to your appointment, we will hopefully figure out what in the hell is going on, and then I will head for the beach, which is only a couple of hours away. She agreed. On the way I out I told her everything was going to be ok, I leaned in, gave her a kiss and left.

 

Friday morning when I dropped the girls off at her place I asked her, what was that look for the other day. She smiled again and said she was just remembering something. I asked what? She said that when she saw me walking through the door she remember how she used to feel so relieved to see me come home after a long day and how she would put her arms around my neck and say, "welcome home baby." I asked why she didn't act on that feeling. She said, "this isn't exactly home." I told her that next time she has a feeling like that, towards me, she should act on it. Actions were what I was looking for.

 

When I picked the girls up after work she said that I should plan on keeping them for the next couple of nights. She was so tired and clearly in pain. The girls had not been easy for her and it was clear she was having a hard time keeping up. I told her to get some rest and took the girls home.

 

This morning I called her to see how she was doing and to ask when I should drop the girls off. She reminded me of her friends wedding that was suppose to happen tonight and said that she was going to help her by going to pick up a few things before helping her with her dress and make up. I got kind of pissed. If you are feeling well enough to go run all these errands then you should feel well enough to watch the girls. I have been watching them for almost the whole month of July and I need a damn break. A moment to breath. An hour for myself. We fussed back and forth for a moment and finally I told her I would watch the girls today but that she needed to help me out and watch them tomorrow morning. She agreed.

 

I told her how I was feeling and how the stress was effecting me - my stomach has been giving my some acid reflux problems. She said she had some medicine there and that I was welcome to come by and pick it up. I told her I would. Before I left the house I sat down for a moment and tried to think why I was feeling so.. down. I came to the conclusion that it was the culmination of being ignored physically for so long. It has caught up to me. I was lonely. I am lonely.

 

I got to her place just before 11 and asked to talk for a minute. She sat down in a chair in her living room, tired and in pain, and I crouched down in front of her. As I took a moment to gather my thoughts she spoke up saying, "you told me to act, right?" "Act on what?" "You said when I feel something toward you I should act on it". I said yes, if you are feeling something, act. She then leaned forward and kissed me. She leaned back a little so we could see each other, and I leaned in and kissed her. Needless to say it threw me off. The girls then came running in and we really didn't get a chance to talk about anything. I hugged her as we left, and we both said I love you.

 

Later in the afternoon she called to tell me that she did not go out as planned. After speaking to her friend, who could tell she felt horrible, she was given a pass on the wedding preparations so that she could sleep and be better prepared for the wedding itself. She texted me just before 9, 'I hate this. it is so depressing", so I assume she did go to the wedding. It was suppose to be very small and almost all family. She did not want to be there as she did not agree with her friend getting married. And she has issues with marriage in general that she has yet to really address.

[sad song]

OK- first time here and i need some serious advice- especially female- married over 12 years- love her deeply- she is a minister- recently she began to travel for work- began hanging with an officer of the church- older by 15 years- hes married with 13 yr old. He is friend- he came over often- we threw parties- he and my wife began working on campaigns that will take them out of town- I have discovered they are not only having sex but are in love. I have been miserable- cant believe it has been so in my face. I saw texts where we are out and she is texting him at table while withme- saying shes having to act like her old self to get through- I have evidence- I can tell she is NOT in this relationship but that one- considering filing for divorce as a wake up call to her -

do I do this? how do I handle it? Ive been trying to talk about us and have been diligent for months- big birthday- travel- making love- being a lover- and all the while our realtionship has slipped further and further away- please help me

[starting2wakeup]

OK- first time here and i need some serious advice- especially female- married over 12 years- love her deeply- she is a minister- recently she began to travel for work- began hanging with an officer of the church- older by 15 years- hes married with 13 yr old. He is friend- he came over often- we threw parties- he and my wife began working on campaigns that will take them out of town- I have discovered they are not only having sex but are in love. I have been miserable- cant believe it has been so in my face. I saw texts where we are out and she is texting him at table while withme- saying shes having to act like her old self to get through- I have evidence- I can tell she is NOT in this relationship but that one- considering filing for divorce as a wake up call to her -

do I do this? how do I handle it? Ive been trying to talk about us and have been diligent for months- big birthday- travel- making love- being a lover- and all the while our realtionship has slipped further and further away- please help me

 

sad song, I am very sorry to hear what you are going through. I would suggest starting your own thread so that you can better get the advise and insight you are looking for.

[starting2wakeup]

Had an amazing vacation with my family! All I can say is, it really pays to have rich friends. A friend whose husband is a doctor let us stay at their beach house for the week. I expected it to be nice but I had no idea it was going to be SO NICE! 3 stories, 5 bedrooms, pool, elevator (!), private beach access... I could brag about that place for days. The girls had a blast and at times it actually felt like a vacation, which is a feeling I don't recall having in... forever. I only talked to my wife on a few occasions while there. We had maybe 3 or 4 short, 5 minute conversations, mostly about the girls and what they did that day or were planning on doing.

 

So I'm back home for one day and... wife calls first thing in the morning pleading with me to give her a ride to the hospital. She is in serious pain. I call my mom, who lives closer to her, and asked her if she would swing by her place to pick her up and drop her off at the ER. I then asked if she could come watch the girls so that I could go to the ER to see what is going on. She agreed and, after seeing the horrible state she was in, called an ambulance to pick up my wife rather that drive her to the ER and have to wait for an hour to be seen. Jumping ahead, moms at home watching the girls and I'm at the ER with the wife. Her muscles and joints are killing her. She is stubborn as the day is long and for her to agree to have an ambulance come pick her up was enough to tell me that she was indeed in serious pain. They gave her a once over, gave her some meds and by 2 she was back home.

 

Now the day I left for vacation I went with her early that morning to her first visit with the hematologist. He was very nice and very thorough. While there, the lab took 14 vials of blood to be tested. If one of the tests came back positive she would then need to go back to give more blood for even more tests. While at the beach she got the results for said test, and it came back positive. So she went back to the lab and gave them 12 more vials of blood. While at the ER, the ER doc called the hematologist to try and get on the same page. Unfortunately nothing really came of it. I got the impression that the ER doc, knowing that another specialist was already dealing with her case, just did the best he could to get her home and pass her off. I also think that the hospital has a note on her file that says "difficult patient" based on the way some of the nurses treated her. And I wouldn't blame them if they did. So with nothing much to show for the day, at least in terms of answers to her medical condition, I took her home, went to work for a couple of hours and then home to take care of the girls.

 

OK. Now that we are all up to speed, it was what was said while waiting around in the ER that I want to discuss. She has been telling me she loves me a lot more. At one point she even broke a bit of silence in the room by saying, "You know, I really love you." Granted, we were in the hospital and I was there, yet again, to look out for her, but even before I left for the beach, she has been saying it much more. She also told me in the ER, well, she apologized for being so stubborn. Acknowledging the fact that she has been trying to do everything herself. She also asked if I still wanted to have sex with her. Yeah...

 

I'm going to get rather personal here, so if you're not one for TMI then feel free to skip this paragraph. I haven't had sex in over a damn year! Haven't been touched since Christmas. And it is starting to get to me. No, that's a lie. It has already gotten to me. I could have sex. Hell, there's a co-worker here who sexually harasses me on a weekly basis, but I don't. The way I view it, I'm still legally married. She may not care about it, but I took my vows seriously and I made the choice to wait to date or fool around until after we get a divorce. Which legally we can do 08/20/11. That said, I'm bad off folks! You know it's been too long when you see this bunny icon -><- and you could swear it has boobs. And there in lie my weakness. Breasts. Honestly, I don't miss sex nearly as much as I miss boobs. Now I have in a recent past post mentioned that she has gained some weight. As a result, her boobs have gotten bigger, and she was a nice full 36 D to start with. So, here she is, asking if I want to have sex. My response? I pause... take a moment... and said yes. Now the funny thing is, she thought I said, "I guess". She reacted, "You Guess?!", to which I corrected her and we both had a laugh. Maybe I should have said, "yeah, I guess. Why not." but, I didn't. I said yes. We flirted quite a bit after that, more than we have in a year.

 

So that was my day. I come home from a relaxing vacation, have to take my wife to the ER, where she asks me to sleep with her, something we haven't done in a year. So yeah, my brain is fried.

[starting2wakeup]

I feel this "force" inside of me, screaming to protect myself. To protect myself from my wife and more so I think to protect myself from myself. She wants a divorce. She brought it up today, even after the I love you's and talk of sex, she wants a divorce. I told her it was very obvious that she had major issues when it came to intimacy and I asked her what we could both do to fix that. She didn't have an answer. She did say she was feeling better about herself. Her future. Honestly, it was weird. I asked her if she could see the four of us together again, as a family, and she said yes, but after the divorce. The divorce is the sticking point for her and honestly, it is for me too.

 

This is where my head is at, for the moment. I'm trying to listen to myself, that gut feeling I am having to protect myself. It's hard looking past the events of the past 2 days because they have certainly clouded my head but...

 

If we were both on the same page about our relationship, committed to working on it, then getting a divorce because it is something she needs to help her personal growth, to help her overcome some of the emotional trauma and issues instilled in her as child, that would be something I would be willing to accept. But since we are not on the same page, then getting a divorce just feels like her severing ties from me. It feels selfish and I don't want to be with someone like that.

 

Also, in talking about the divorce, she seems to think that she can just file the papers and be done without the issue of custody ever coming up. Maybe that's true but I for one want the issue of custody brought up if divorce is too.

 

Thoughts.

[Tech_E]

Thoughts, my thoughts is to proceed to divorce and rid yourself of this manipulative woman. She is playing with you like a doll my friend.

 

Custody, if you want it, fight for it. Do whatever you deem is necessary.

 

Enough is enough with this woman, 1 year without sex and now she pulls this ___? Come on man. Move on with your life.

[trippi1432]

You have stated that you told her if she felt something, act on it...the only thing she seems to understand is sexual intimacy...she knows nothing of mutually responsible relationship which IS more than just about herself.

 

She has done this on more than one occasion, and yes, it is her background but enough is enough. If she isn't willing to go to cognitive behavior therapy to fix her issues...this will be the only way she will be. Even that may not be enough to fix her issues. She is very good at shutting you down with sexual undertones, but when push comes to shove about how she feels, what she wants, how it can be fixed...she stands on divorce so she does not have to face the real intimacy that comes with a responsible relationship. The divorce is her running, to be a family after the divorce to make her feel more secure is again, her saying I want you to take care of me but I have the option to leave whenever I want. She can't even have the talks, as that would require a level of intimacy too...of really dealing with the issues.

 

I think the next time she pulls one of these little stints, I would be telling her

in about 10 days you can have sex with anyone who is not your wife...now you have options.

 

Dang!! Just broke a slat on my soapbox....

[2sunny]

looks like she's a master manipulator... she gets YOU to do anything she wants you to DO - while she says she's sick - then goes out to play when you take the girls...

 

stop helping her. it's not helping. if she's sick (maybe from too much drinking) she needs to find someone (ELSE) to rely on for help.

 

you cannot and should not solve all her problems.

 

when she calls - let it go to vm - and allow her to figure out solutions - without it needing to be YOU.

 

 

she doesn't want to be married to you - so start acting like you are separate - and parenting separately from her.

 

when she says jump - you say "how high?" - stop even considering jumping at all.

 

she WILL figure things out - after you stop trying to fix everything for her.

 

step waaaay back. have that time with your girls when you are with them - and then let her have her time with them (without you involved).

 

you will begin to heal faster when you put a good deal of space between you and her... keep that space = because she tries to manipulate you as soon as you may gain some independence. it's her ploy. don't fall for it.

 

take care of you!

[starting2wakeup]

So the s#it is hitting the fan today. I spoke with her this morning for a good hour and a half. The only thing that came out of it was that she wants a divorce no matter what. I told her fine, but I wanted to address custody of the girls at the same time. She said that was not necessary and I told her it was. I was not going to continue doing what we have been doing for the last year. It wasn't working. She apologized for being sick all of the time and I told her it was more than that. There where times where I thought she was home sick and she was in fact out playing pool. She then accused me of blackmailing her. I told her that was BS. I could have taken her to court months ago and won full custody but I didn't. I wanted the girls to have both of their parents in their lives and hoped we could work something out. She doesn't want to, fine, but then we need to legally get the situation with custody straight because I will not keep running every time she calls because she can't keep the girls. If you are too sick to keep them, then I will keep them.

 

I turned the BS around on her and told her she was blackmailing me. She said she wanted to try and work on a relationship but only after a divorce is in place. No. That doesn't work for me. She got very mad. She thinks I am going to take her children away and the fact is she hasn't been acting like a mother in for-f*cking-ever and that's on her.

 

She called me as soon as I got to work and I ignored it. She then called the office and I told them to tell her I was busy. So she texted me.

 

Her - "you are blackmailing me into a relationship to keep the girls. Not a good start if you want to have anything to do with me."

 

Me - "I'm doing no such thing. All I said is that we should address the divorce and custody at the same time. you are the one who said you would not discuss our relationship until after a divorce. That is black mailing and no way of showing me that you really care"

 

Her - I told you I did not feel safe. This is why. You are going to try to take the most important thing in my life. You said we needed trsut- I don't trust you now."

 

Me - I have shown you with my actions that I can be trusted. You however have done nothing. I don't trust you. And I'm not taking anything from anybody. you continue to blame me for things that you do. You need to take ownership of your own situation."

 

Her - "Don't tell me what to do."

 

Me - "You have shown that if I did try and tell you what to do, you wouldn't listen."

[Tech_E]

Time go to hardcore on this woman, let the lawyers do the talking and only communicate with her about the children.

[starting2wakeup]

Wanted to post this article on detachment, as it may help others.

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

 

Speaking for myself, I could relate to each one of the bolded line below.

 

"What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?

* If you should stop being involved, what will they do without you?

* They need you and that is enough to justify your continued involvement.

* What if they commit suicide because of your detachment? You must stay involved to avoid this.

* You would feel so guilty if anything bad should happen to them after you reduced your involvement with them.

* They are absolutely dependent on you at this point and to back off now would be a crime.

* You need them as much as they need you.

* You can't control yourself because everyday you promise yourself "today is the day" you will detach your feelings but you feel driven to them and their needs.

* They have so many problems, they need you.

* Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when you love and care for a person. It's either 100 percent all the way or no way at all.

* If you should let go of this relationship too soon, the other might change to be like the fantasy or dream you want them to be.

* How can being detached from them help them? It seems like you should do more to help them.

* Detachment sounds so final. It sounds so distant and non-reachable. You could never allow yourself to have a relationship where there is so much emotional distance between you and others. It seems so unnatural.

* You never want anybody in a relationship to be emotionally detached from you so why would you think it a good thing to do for others?

* The family that plays together stays together. It's all for one and one for all. Never do anything without including the significant others in your life.

* If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt, suffering, problems and troubles.

* When they are in "trouble," how can you ignore their "pleas" for help? It seems cruel and inhuman.

* When you see people in trouble, confused and hurting, you must always get involved and try to help them solve the problems.

* When you meet people who are "helpless," you must step in to give them assistance, advice, support and direction.

* You should never question the costs, be they material, emotional or physical, when another is in dire need of help.

* You would rather forgo all the pleasures of this world in order to assist others to be happy and successful.

* You can never "give too much" when it comes to providing emotional support, comforting and care of those whom you love and cherish.

* No matter how badly your loved ones hurt and abuse you, you must always be forgiving and continue to extend your hand in help and support.

* Tough love is a cruel, inhuman and anti-loving philosophy of dealing with the troubled people in our lives and you should instead love them more when they are in trouble since "love" is the answer to all problems.

 

I have a lot to work on.

[2sunny]

so now you have spoken a bit of your truth.

 

step away from HER chaos and blameshifting.

 

make decisions that are in the best interest of you and your kids... she needs to do what she will do - stay away from her chaos at all costs.

[updown]

you are taking the good stance on this! it's hard, but she isn't being honest and she isn't taking any responsibility for her actions. i don't know how many times i heard this part of your conversation in my own conversations.......

 

 

You however have done nothing. I don't trust you. And I'm not taking anything from anybody. you continue to blame me for things that you do. You need to take ownership of your own situation."

 

Her - "Don't tell me what to do."

 

 

i would say " you need to take ownership of your choices" or " you need to figure out exactly what and how you feel about x, y, and z and then we can talk" and i was always told " don't tell me what to do." i never 'told him what to do' but, he always took me making those statements as such. i remember once saying " you need to figure out if you love me, then we can figure out if we can save our marriage" and he responded with, "don't tell me what to do."

 

i think some people are just wired this way. they are not to blame, but don't want to hear about accountability and having to make the hard choices sometimes........ it is impossible to have a healthy relationship with someone like that!

 

i think i told you a story before about a friend who got divorced and did end up remarried. but, he was ok dividing the house, and being there for his kids but not having any maritial relationship with his wife. apparently as soon as they were divorced she was his friend again. after years of counseling she wanted to get remarried. he never dated or anything like that. and they literally divided the house and he lived in part and she lived in the other. the got remarried. she ended up with cancer and died several years ago. but, YOU BOTH have to be ok with that path!!!! he didn't fight her need for a divorce, but he wasn't interested in moving on either. if you want to be married then you don't have to be ok getting the divorce. and you are not blackmailing her INTO a relationship! you are simply looking out for the welfare of those children!!!

 

you can get joint legal and sole physical and then she can see them during the week for dinner and overnights when she feels up for it. but, joint physical would not make sense seeing as how she has massive issues taking care of them on her own for ANY period of time!!!!

 

keep moving forward. you are doing great! i continue to keep you in my prayers! i am glad to hear you had such a wonderful vacation! sounds absolutely wonderful :-)

[starting2wakeup]

Earlier today I meet with my STBX (first time I have used that one) and told her, face to face, that if she filed for divorce I would sign it. That I did not want to be married to someone who did not want to be married to me. I made it very clear that I was not going back on this, and there was no reason to really talk or stress each other about it further. If she files, which she can legally do in just over a week, I will sign it. I asked when she planned on filing and she said she didn't know. She knew it cost money she didn't have. I kept my mouth shut. She wants to file, she can pay.

 

It was not easy, but I know that I needed it for me, to let go. We talked some about the issue of custody and it did at times get rather heated. She showed her ass a couple of times, and I stood my ground. She said something I didn't agree with, I told her as much. It was as civil as it could have been given the emotions involved.

 

As far as custody is concerned, and the divorce, when she files and I get the paperwork I will go over it with my lawyer. At that time I will ask about custody but having talked to others more familiar with the laws in my state, I don't know that fighting for primary would do much good at this time. Right now we have joint custody. She is not a drug addict, nor is she abusive. If we were to go to court, at the end of the day I might very well find myself bankrupt and in the exact same 50/50 agreement we have now. But again, I will talk all that over with my lawyer.

 

What I can do, starting tomorrow, is let her stand on her own two feet. She needs to learn and feel what it's like to be a single parent. If she is in the hospital, then yes, I will of course take care of the kids, but if she's just not feeling well... I watched our girls for a week straight struggling with the flu. It's not fun, but it can be done. And I need time to heal. To re-find myself and start moving forward again.

 

Thank you Trippi, updown, 2sunny, thank you everyone, for taking the time to post your thoughts and comments. They are all very helpful and greatly appreciated.

[starting2wakeup]

Dropped the girls off at her place this morning. She looked like Hell. I asked what was wrong and she said she hadn't slept all night as she was up crying. I told her she needed to keep the girls for the rest of her week. She asked where I was going and I told her no where. I needed time for me. Time to heal. I made sure she had everything she needed for the girls. The oldest meds. The youngest pillow. And I warned her that putting the youngest to bed was not going to be easy. Last night she broke my heart, crying that she wanted "mommy and daddy together." I hugged my girls and left for work. On the way out, she followed to have a cigarette. Normally I would sit down with her while she smoked. I didn't. She sat down and I told her I had to go to work. As I walked away she told me she loved me. I told her I loved her too. I do. But the fact remains we are getting divorced.

[Tech_E]

You need to minimize these encounters with her. The ILY's don't help.

 

In my opinion your wife is a master manipulator and uses her health issues as part of this behavior pattern. You did the right thing by telling her that you intend on divorcing. It will be hard for the kids but they will survive.

 

Good luck.

[starting2wakeup]

It gets easier when you finally reach a point where you're willing to lose that person rather than let things go on as they are now.

 

Quote is from another thread.

 

I read that and...

 

It's amazing what can happen in just a week. I need to update this thread, even though I know I'm gonna catch Hell when I do but... something about what Owl said....

 

If I'm not at that point already, I can sure as Hell see it in front of me.

[trippi1432]

Been wondering how things are going with you......

[starting2wakeup]

Today marks one year of separation. I am surprisingly numb about it. Or at least I am for the moment.

[worldgonewrong]

Today marks one year of separation. I am surprisingly numb about it. Or at least I am for the moment.

 

Yup. I can relate.

I think what starts to happen over time is like an animal instinct: you stop going back to the same poisoned well because you know it will make you sick or kill you.

[starting2wakeup]

Stepped out of my shell some last night and went to a get-together at a co-workers house. My girls had a blast playing with the other kids and swimming in the pool. It was bit surreal for me because the only other attendees were two girls I had went to high school with. One of whom I had a crush on freshman year. She looked great. She's married and has a 13 daughter but is apparently splitting from her husband and planning on moving back into town. It felt weird putting myself out there like that, the single dad showing up with his two daughters, but I'm glad I did.

[worldgonewrong]

starting2wakeup: very cool, my man.

[starting2wakeup]

STBX just called. She said her lawyer wanted to know where to mail me the divorce papers. Apparently they have to be delivered by certified mail. Or a sheriff can deliver them. I told her to have them mailed to my office. My chest feels really heavy all of the sudden.

Edited August 22, 2011 by starting2wakeup

[worldgonewrong]

I feel for you, bro.