Author Bubbles Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 You sound worried...this thread is not about abolishing internet porn! This thread is about how people who would not normally give a darn about computers suddenly become internet experts just so they can access internet porn. The Government agencies I am speaking of are the agencies who log onto chat rooms, monitor and seek out the Child offenders. The perverts who mess with our children, the sicko's that lure our children out of their homes. Those are the sicko's who had absolutly NO interest in computers until they found out that they could use and manipulate. That is what this thread is all about. There has to be some type of "control" It seems that there are people walking this earth who have a very twisted view on sex and pornography. I think that internet sites that "drive" these people should be monitored by the Government. Otherwise how are we going to protect our children? There should be limits on the amount of pornography available. Yes? No? I think that every "hard core" internet site should have to turn over the names of the people looking to access their site. Then maybe there would be some sort of accountability on the public so that the sicko's cannot hide. Bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 actually, the thread appears to change direction quite often. now it is evidently about pedophilia, which is going to be a much easier topic for us to all nod our heads in unison about. there are no problems, then, i assume, with adults looking at consenting adults engaged in legal sexual activity? Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 there are no problems, then, i assume, with adults looking at consenting adults engaged in legal sexual activity? Not when used in moderation and a healthy manner. Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Maybe this is a very idealistic and simplistic view, but I think that if a woman is with a guy who sneaks around and does things he knows will hurt her, because she's been very clear as to her feelings on whatever it is (in this thread, porn), yet he still continues, then she needs to end the relationship and find a man who's views and beliefs are more in line with hers. Now I realize that in a marriage-type situation, it's not always easy to just leave, especially when there are children involved, but I'm speaking primarily of the many women here who aren't married, yet have great issues with, and heartache from, their guys viewing porn behind their back, lying about it, etc etc. You have the choice to leave. I just don't see the point in living a miserable life, stressed and hurt to the nines, and continuing to subject yourself to a relationship that you feel brings you disrespect and dishonesty. Leave. Get out. Pack your bags. Hit the road. Life is too short. If something (your partner's behavior) is making you feel disrespected, humiliated, betrayed, cheated on, then make like a bee. Link to post Share on other sites
corythosaurus Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Bubbles There has to be some type of "control" It seems that there are people walking this earth who have a very twisted view on sex and pornography. I think that internet sites that "drive" these people should be monitored by the Government. Otherwise how are we going to protect our children? There should be limits on the amount of pornography available. Yes? No? I think that every "hard core" internet site should have to turn over the names of the people looking to access their site. Then maybe there would be some sort of accountability on the public so that the sicko's cannot hide. It's called parental control. The internet is not a good baby-sitter. Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 The Government agencies I am speaking of are the agencies who log onto chat rooms, monitor and seek out the Child offenders. The perverts who mess with our children, the sicko's that lure our children out of their homes. Those are the sicko's who had absolutly NO interest in computers until they found out that they could use and manipulate. That is what this thread is all about. There is a huge, huge difference between a pedophile and a man who happens to like to look at porn on the Internet. Yes, pedophiles surf the Internet looking for bait. So do trolls. So do all kinds of terrible people. But I think it's wrong to start mixing up a pedophile with a normal adult who likes to look at porn. They are not one in the same. It seems that there are people walking this earth who have a very twisted view on sex and pornography. I think that internet sites that "drive" these people should be monitored by the Government. There are a lot of twisted people walking around. Some of them are even driven by fetishes, such as shoe fetishes. Should we monitor Zappos or DSW? Some of them are driven by diapers. Should we monitor who is buying Huggies and Pampers and make sure they really have a kid? Some of them are driven by toes. Should we outlaw open toed shoes? You simply cannot justify giving up everyone's right to do what they want to do in their own home because a few people are really messed up. Otherwise how are we going to protect our children? This is the parent's responsibility, not the government's. Buy blockers so your kids can't get to porn sites. Monitor what they are doing on the Internet. Warn them, educate them, and let them know that they never know who they are talking to online. There should be limits on the amount of pornography available. Yes? No? I think that every "hard core" internet site should have to turn over the names of the people looking to access their site. Then maybe there would be some sort of accountability on the public so that the sicko's cannot hide. And there go the rest of our privacy rights... Yes pedophiles are wrong and sick. But you can't start policing every single person in order to find one pedophile in the bunch unless you are willing to give up a lot of your privacy. Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Errol Men should have more self-control and the ability to rationalize their actions. For anyone to say that woment must accept massive amounts and types of porn in their homes simply because it is so readily available is claiming that men have no self control. Everything is in the same place on every woman - it's not like we are going to suddenly find a woman with a vagina where her ear should be! Why keep looking? It's not to satisfy curiosity! I said the same thing and was told that by saying Men should have more self control than boys I was emasculizing men who look at porn. As far as the "to satisfy curiosity" idea. I'm there with you! I laughed out loud at the "it's not like we are going to suddenly find a woman with a vagina where her ear should be!" thing! Amen! Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by End of my rope Not when used in moderation and a healthy manner. Who determines what is "moderation" and what is "a healthy manner" ?? Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Bubbles Then maybe there would be some sort of accountability on the public so that the sicko's cannot hide. Bubbles I don't mean to pick on you, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. We are accountable for our own actions. I am not accountable for my neighbors actions. Can you expand on what you mean by "accountability on the public"? Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Errol Who determines what is "moderation" and what is "a healthy manner" ?? The individual must learn when enough is enough. I've said since the beginning of this thread that some men don't know when to stop and it affects thier life. When they let it control their lives and they loose those they love it's not a good thing. So it is okay for porn to exist, it's okay for men and women to look at porn. It's not okay to let it affect thier lives in a negative way... Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 So it is okay for porn to exist, it's okay for men and women to look at porn. It's not okay to let it affect thier lives in a negative way... So why is it the government's duty to make sure people are acting responsibly? Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by End of my rope [color=darkred][/color] I don't think the goverment should control the internet or what's accessed through it. I believe in free will. In one of my previous posts I stated I didn't think the goverment should control it. The goverment controls to much as it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I think the government would not have to "step in" if people could control it better on their own. But like drugs, it is addicting and help is needed from somewhere. The ones who complain about it the most are and will be men, because they are the primary users of porn. You won't find many women addicted to porn, but men can't seem to stay away from it! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bubbles Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 O.K. you guys......: Government control = The Law, the Jucicial System or the Police Department. Let me pose a question. If a Pedofile moved into your neighborhood, do you think that you have the right to know? That is the best example that I can think of. I'm not saying that anyone would have to be accountable for their "neighbor's" actions. What I am saying is that, if you log-on to any of the "hard-core" pay pornography sites your e-mail address and any other information will be automatically sent to a "registry" of some type and if and only if something happens in your neighborhood you will be contacted by the Police. At least this way the police would have some clues to start their investigation with. If a person is only looking then they are only looking right? You would have nothing to hide; there would not be anything else on your computer or in your home to incriminate you. What about all of the pedofiles out there and rapists that have hidden behind the annonymousity of a computer? I read in the newspaper on a daily basis about all of these busts going on all around the world. Didn't anyone else hear about Peter Townsend? Just a quick example. Doesn't anyone else read about these creeps or are the newspaper articles just being printed in my city? There is a distinct difference between a pedofile and a man who sits behind his computer and views pornography. But the man who uses the computer to view pornography and knows that his wife gets hurt over it is no better a man than a pedofile. He is still hurting people/person, leaving a scar....and does not give a hoot! I know I'm going to take a tongue lashing over that statement. Self control is very important. If you can't control your urges when requested by a loved one, then where will you stop? I'm am not saying that EVERY man who views pornography is a scum bag - I'm saying that the men who learned how to use the internet for the sole purpose of viewing pornography behind his spouces back IS a scumbag. I beleive that our society has become far too "liberated" in our views for us NOT to have some type of Government control over what is available on the internet. Just like our libraries. I beleive that the Government or The Police should have control. They are the people who create our laws and our judicial systems. Right? And another thing.....why shoud I have to purchase a blocker? Why should I spend the extra money just to stop these creeps from sending "pop-up" windows! They should not be allowed to do it in the first place. I beleive that if the Government had more control over the Internet that these "hackers" out there wouldn't have a chance. I am not saying that everyone who views the "hard-core" internet sites will act on their impulses but by policing the sites it would certainly be a good deterrent would it not? Bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Someone a few posts back said that they felt that for someone to view porn they should have to jump through the hoops that the rest of us do to prevent it from coming into our houses and our children having access to it... I second that motion! That's the kind of "regulation" that should be put on porn. Regardless of if it's on HBO, pay-per-view, or online. Though we all have to admit...it's easiest to get to online... Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Bubbles O.K. you guys......: Government control = The Law, the Jucicial System or the Police Department. Let me pose a question. If a Pedofile moved into your neighborhood, do you think that you have the right to know? That information is readily available on the Internet. If I can find the link I'll post it -- or maybe someone else will. you can enter your zip code and get a list of convicted pedophiles in your neighborhood. That is the best example that I can think of. I'm not saying that anyone would have to be accountable for their "neighbor's" actions. What I am saying is that, if you log-on to any of the "hard-core" pay pornography sites your e-mail address and any other information will be automatically sent to a "registry" of some type and if and only if something happens in your neighborhood you will be contacted by the Police. I don't want to know if my neighbors look at porn, or what kind of porn, or what they do in their own home and I don't want them to know what I do either. This is an invasion of privacy. I am already contacted by my neighborhood crime stoppers whenever a crime is committed in the area. You know that there already are ways to trace everyone's internet use right? But to have some government agency or registry keeping track of everything we do in our homes is not acceptable. [insert swasticka here] At least this way the police would have some clues to start their investigation with. If a person is only looking then they are only looking right? You would have nothing to hide; there would not be anything else on your computer or in your home to incriminate you. What is in my home is mine and no ones business. I don't have to have something to hide to value my privacy. America is not a communist country and our government already has way too much control over us as it is. Would you really want someone to come into your home and go through all of your things? Oh, look--dirty underwear, is that a semen stain? She's not married, we'd better find out more about who she was with, lets call her mother and ask. Oh, never mind that news truck out front, I'm sure your boss will understand and your coworkers will understand that being questioned about something doesn't mean that you will be charged..... What about all of the pedofiles out there and rapists that have hidden behind the annonymousity of a computer? What about them? What about the ones that are out there that DON'T hide behind a computer, but hide in churches and schools and businesses? What about the guy next door who watches school kids from behind his curtains while he jerks off? Why stop at targeting the Internet? Lets put 'informants' at every place that sells pornography and get the name and address of everyone who purchases hard-core pornography so that we can questions them if/when a crime is committed. Should the country live and bend to the lowest common denominator of society? If that were the case we would all live in hovels and have the same jobs and live exactly the same way -- the way the government tells us we should in order to protect us from that lowest common denominator and because its the only way to find out who is doing what. Wait a minute -- a country like that does exist.... Anyone here from that country? I didn't think so. ---yes, I'm being sarcastic here - but also incredulous and I don't know how to write to reflect that I read in the newspaper on a daily basis about all of these busts going on all around the world. Didn't anyone else hear about Peter Townsend? Just a quick example. Doesn't anyone else read about these creeps or are the newspaper articles just being printed in my city? I don't read the liberal news, but I'm aware of the news stories. I know what goes on. One thing has nothing to do with the other. People who don't use the Internet are arrested every day. There is a distinct difference between a pedofile and a man who sits behind his computer and views pornography. But the man who uses the computer to view pornography and knows that his wife gets hurt over it is no better a man than a pedofile. I beg to differ! (1) a law is being broken; (2) a child doesn't have a choice but a woman who is being hurt does; (3) Hurting someones feelings because of ignorance or a lack of respect or love is passive, but molesting children is an aggressive violent action---there is no comparison. Self control is very important. If you can't control your urges when requested by a loved one, then where will you stop? There are differences between addictions and addictive behaviors and poor judgement or disrespect. The 'where will you stop' argument is one that I've asked about too. It goes beyond porn to a behavior and lack of respect. Porn use, or other behavior patterns, are nothing more than markers on a map of the behavior. I'm am not saying that EVERY man who views pornography is a scum bag - I'm saying that the men who learned how to use the internet for the sole purpose of viewing pornography behind his spouces back IS a scumbag. I don't know of anyone who learned to use the compute for the sole purpose of porn viewing (unless its a 14 y/o boy!) - but they probably exist. And yes, to lie to a spouse and do something behind their back when they know it hurts them, is a miserable excuse for a man. I beleive that our society has become far too "liberated" in our views for us NOT to have some type of Government control over what is available on the internet. Just like our libraries. I beleive that the Government or The Police should have control. They are the people who create our laws and our judicial systems. Right? No. WE create our laws and our systems by voting and by being active in our neighborhoods. I will not turn over my freedoms to anyone--especially the police. What control do you think the government has over libraries? Brr... just hearing you mention libraries within the context of this thread brought back vivid memories of book burnings. And another thing.....why shoud I have to purchase a blocker? Why should I spend the extra money just to stop these creeps from sending "pop-up" windows! They should not be allowed to do it in the first place. I beleive that if the Government had more control over the Internet that these "hackers" out there wouldn't have a chance. Having recently gone through the hassel of installing blockers and the associated frustrations - I will say that I am very VERY happy to live in a country that allows such freedoms - freedoms that men and women have died for. It's worth the hassle and the expense and I would rather that then be 'governed' by some power-hungry Internet police or some agency that is telling me how I should live and what is good for me. I am not saying that everyone who views the "hard-core" internet sites will act on their impulses but by policing the sites it would certainly be a good deterrent would it not? It would NOT. Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'm not going to lash out at you Bubbles. In fact, I agree with you 100% on everything! You put a man on a computer and he WILL seek out porn. I can be a sick addiction to them! I do not see how some women can be ok with it. I AM NOT ok with it at all! If I caught my husband looking at porn on the internet, it would affect the way I feel about him, and I would not want him touching me. I am glad I found someone who feels as strongly about it as I do! Keep it up Bubbles! You are NOT in the wrong! Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Errol, you bring up several strong points also. The government cannot regulate everything, everywhere, but the internet is a place they can regulate, and for pornography, I think they should. What everyone does in their own home is no one's business but their own. Well, wait a minute. What if what that person is doing is molesting YOUR child? It is in their home, right? What they are doing is none of your business, right? Not necessarily, not in that case anyway. It really depends what is going on. Most porn is not illegal. Should it be? Why not? Why are men so against porn being regulated? I don't think porn should be on there at all, but that is just my opinion. It is easier for a man to look up that crap in the privacy of his own home, than to have to go to an adult store and pick out the movie or magazine of their choice and not worry about looking like a pervert. I think that is the core of it all. It is not so much a privacy thing, but being exposed as a horny old (or young) pervert is what men DO NOT want. They want a squeaky clean image, but then be able to be "dirty" in private, where it is no one else's business. It is like they believe no one will know they are whacking off as long as they can get porn on the net. Whatever. Men can't keep their hands off of their "pee-pee's", and women know it. Men just want to keep it as hidden as possible. Take porn off of the net! Watch and see how many men become furious about it! Poor babies Now for MY "tongue lashing"... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bubbles Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Errol, you do present some very valid points....something for me to think about. But I don't agree with you - I think we need to lay this thread to rest and say the we "Agree to Disagree" Sound good to you? I have felt the effect of porn viewing in my own home. It affected me as a human being, it affected my children because of the addictive nature surrounding the person viewing and it has changed my mind FOREVER about pornography being "allowed" in my home. I gave trust and it was abused over and over and over. That should explain clearly to you why I will not budge on this topic. I do appreciate all of you for spending your days replying to me. This has been interesting to say the least and maybe someday.......someday I'll be ready to take on jenny! LOL Take care and don't forget.......stay away from porn sites! You'll go blind or something! Bubbles Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Emeraude You put a man on a computer and he WILL seek out porn. I can be a sick addiction to them! Good God! Are you speaking for me? If you can speak for me, then please tell me where I can send my bills -- I want you to pay them too! *Errol shakes head* I am so glad that my spouse & daughters are not so close minded and unable to understand. I guess ALL women cannot pass a shoe store without going in and trying something on and most will not leave without buying at least one pair. Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 No I am not speaking for you Errol, but I bet you have checked out porn on your computer, haven't you? Just my point. Why? What were you looking for? Just curious I'll bet, huh? Maybe you are not one of the sick ones, but there are a lot of them. I rarely ever go in to a shoe store, and never buy from them, too expensive. I'll stick to bargain places like Walmart or something, and then, I just hate shopping! Resistance is easy for me, really. Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Emeraude Errol, you bring up several strong points also. The government cannot regulate everything, everywhere, but the internet is a place they can regulate, and for pornography, I think they should. What everyone does in their own home is no one's business but their own. Well, wait a minute. What if what that person is doing is molesting YOUR child? It is in their home, right? What they are doing is none of your business, right? Not necessarily, not in that case anyway. It really depends what is going on. Most porn is not illegal. Should it be? Why not? Why are men so against porn being regulated? I don't think porn should be on there at all, but that is just my opinion. It is easier for a man to look up that crap in the privacy of his own home, than to have to go to an adult store and pick out the movie or magazine of their choice and not worry about looking like a pervert. I think that is the core of it all. It is not so much a privacy thing, but being exposed as a horny old (or young) pervert is what men DO NOT want. They want a squeaky clean image, but then be able to be "dirty" in private, where it is no one else's business. It is like they believe no one will know they are whacking off as long as they can get porn on the net. Whatever. Men can't keep their hands off of their "pee-pee's", and women know it. Men just want to keep it as hidden as possible. Take porn off of the net! Watch and see how many men become furious about it! Poor babies Now for MY "tongue lashing"... Read your American history. Look up prohibition. Lets outlaw EVERYTHING that any one person find offensive. Hmm, saddle my horse and call me Amish Lets adopt one single religion for the country and follow TO THE LETTER the scripture of that religion. I pick Voodoo - its very colorful. We probably should change the name of our country too – or at least some of the songs lyrics – like ‘land of the free’. Do you really not understand the difference between a criminal activity and personal choice? Really -- you don't seem to understand or want to understand. Is all sex dirty to you? I feel for you if that is the case. You are going to have a lot of heartbreak and problems with relationships with your views and your judgments- and not just about pornography. You don’t need a tongue-lashing – you need more education and information before you go spouting off about what is right for the rest of us! I will say this – I have become more open and accepting about pornography especially where my older children are concerned and I have been able to have some healthy and productive discussions with them and one reason is the arguments/discussions on this board. Many people have presented views that helped me to understand the world in which my children travel. My spouse has also been able to be more open and understanding and willing to experiment with me. I have not looked at pornography in better than 20 years because my spouse told me that she found it abhorrent and to look at it was disrespectful to her. Since I was a casual viewer (no magazine subscriptions, or regular usage) it was not a big deal for me to stop looking. As we had kids I definitely did not want or need it in my home. Do you think that all gay Boy Scout leaders and gay teachers are child molesters too? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 see through the thread that quite a few women have agreed with me. So that means that I am NOT WRONG. There are sites you can go to where you will find hundreds of people who will say that whites should be supreme. That any number of people agree with you does not mean you are right. That one man in your life abused the internet to view child porn does not in any way support any of your points. You cannot extrapolate one instance in your life to all men everyplace. And to say that men learn to use computers to view porn is ridiculous, as is this problem with internet porn. There are still Playboy, Hustler, and heaven only knows how many more porn magazines easily available within a short walk or drive of your man's workplace. There are still video stores that he can go to any day or night you are out to rent a porn film and watch it. And even if they don't have porn, men will find ways to view naked or semi-clad women, on MTV, in Victoria's Secret, even in the Sears catalogue. Men want to look and they will find ways. Just because some people abuse something is no reason to abolish the thing. Governments and police have made laws against child porn and are actively prosecuting people who use it and who create it. No human is entitled to foist his or her issues upon the rest of humanity. Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Errol Read your American history. Look up prohibition. Lets outlaw EVERYTHING that any one person find offensive. Hmm, saddle my horse and call me Amish Lets adopt one single religion for the country and follow TO THE LETTER the scripture of that religion. I pick Voodoo - its very colorful. We probably should change the name of our country too – or at least some of the songs lyrics – like ‘land of the free’. Do you really not understand the difference between a criminal activity and personal choice? Really -- you don't seem to understand or want to understand. Is all sex dirty to you? I feel for you if that is the case. You are going to have a lot of heartbreak and problems with relationships with your views and your judgments- and not just about pornography. Of course I understand the difference, you silly man Is all sex dirty? Good God no! No adult consenting sex is dirty, not to me anyway. You took that word wrong in my other post. I meant it from the man's mind who MIGHT feel dirty about looking at porn. I am 40 years old, with a VERY HIGH sex drive, and nothing is excluded in my sex life, well, except children and animals. You don’t need a tongue-lashing – you need more education and information before you go spouting off about what is right for the rest of us! Who said I know what is right for everyone? I have my opinions, like everyone else. What is right for you may not be right for me. I know what is right for me and my family, and that is what matters, to me. What ever works for you and your family is what matters to you, right? As long as everyone involved is happy, and respected, you are obviously doing the right thing. I will say this – I have become more open and accepting about pornography especially where my older children are concerned and I have been able to have some healthy and productive discussions with them and one reason is the arguments/discussions on this board. Many people have presented views that helped me to understand the world in which my children travel. My spouse has also been able to be more open and understanding and willing to experiment with me. To be honest, I have MUCH MORE of a problem with horror movies and images than I do with most porn. I Have 4 children, ages 17 to 22, 2 boys and 2 girls, and a 14 year old step son. I never did condone either, but if I had to choose, I would rather them be exposed to the acts of people engaged in consensual sex, than to see people slaughter one another. Sex is an open subject in our home. I raised my kids with an open attitude towards it, that it is what 2 people make it, and how important it is to love someone, etc. You have to know what I mean. I can tell you are comfortable, and respectful about sex also. I have not looked at pornography in better than 20 years because my spouse told me that she found it abhorrent and to look at it was disrespectful to her. Since I was a casual viewer (no magazine subscriptions, or regular usage) it was not a big deal for me to stop looking. As we had kids I definitely did not want or need it in my home. You are a good husband and father. More men should believe and behave like you Do you think that all gay Boy Scout leaders and gay teachers are child molesters too? Link to post Share on other sites
Emeraude Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Sorry about how I included your post in my reply, Errol. I did not do it right, as I see. sorry Link to post Share on other sites
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