I am feeling extremely guilty/unworthy of my girlfriend (possibly long, but clear)

[jerbear]

Hey Vertex*Vertex!

 

I hear you loud and clear and quite frankly I know what you mean.

 

What I'm doing for my girl. Give her massages! I suggest getting some nice massaging oils and just experiment on her! Get the variety pack. If oil is not good use lotion she uses or likes. Very inexpensive and gets those touchy feely going.

 

BTW, she and I share the same alma mater.

[tigressA]

See, I think if she's cooking for you all the time, you should be cleaning up. And if she says no it is okay, you should insist. You seen to do a lot of asking while she does a lot of doing. Like, you suggest getting the macaroons rather than just getting them. Obviously she has a hard time accepting help and you aren't good at surprising her.

 

I agree. Vertex, don't suggest doing things from now on--just DO THEM.

[VertexSquared]

I am surprised I've gotten two comments about that already when I posted that in the exact quote:

 

"She's very polite and almost always refuses anything I offer to do for her ("I'll come with with an umbrella -- it's raining" / "Let me help you clean up" / "Let me carry that for you" / "I'll stop by and get some macaroons for us to share" / "I'll wait for you out front") but she always gives a sort of "Oh no it's okay" sort of response. The next logical step, at least in my mind, was to just DO these things without asking her first. She seems appreciative of it but it's always a very "Omg you seriously didn't have to do that" sort of thing."

 

I *did* try moving on from "asking" to just "doing," but then it basically turns into a huge "You didn't have to do that" type of thing. Sometimes I'll just tell her that I did something because I wanted to, then kiss her. But even then it's still a sort of response along the lines of "But now I feel bad making you do such-and-such!" etc, or sometimes she'll feel the need to make it up to me, etc.

[Sarah1977]

It doesn't matter if she argues. Just keep doing nice things for her. She will get used to it.

[Els]

 

I *did* try moving on from "asking" to just "doing," but then it basically turns into a huge "You didn't have to do that" type of thing. Sometimes I'll just tell her that I did something because I wanted to, then kiss her. But even then it's still a sort of response along the lines of "But now I feel bad making you do such-and-such!" etc, or sometimes she'll feel the need to make it up to me, etc.

 

I don't think this is your fault at all, to be honest. Some people simply cannot easily accept having others do things for them (for a myriad of reasons) , and as a result of that, when you do stuff for them, you get a slightly negative reaction instead of the appreciative one you might be hoping for. While that should not completely stop you from doing things for her, you might probably need to come to terms with the fact that in this relationship you may receive more than you give simply because she is more comfortable giving. Here's a novel idea; it's okay if it's what works for both of you.

 

You could possibly try making up for it in other less concrete ways instead - for example, even if it's your nature to 'fix' when she talks about her problems, train yourself to listen. It's not easy to change how you respond for such things, but do it for her. If she enjoys a particular hobby that you don't particularly like, do it with her. Those are two examples of things she may not be uncomfortable accepting because they aren't solid 'things you're doing for her' per se, but they are things that will make her happier anyway so essentially you are contributing to her happiness and your relationship by doing them.

 

The relationship between me and my guy is much like that. He gives more in the concrete sense and is uncomfortable accepting the same from me, but I 'give' more in the non-concrete sense, often without letting him know it.

[Roxanna]

Just a random thought, but she sounds pretty fussy and high maintenance, which is maybe why she gets dumped a lot - reading this reminded me of one of my grandmothers.

 

Regardless, it's great that you're so happy together, and I agree with what Ruby said, completely.

 

If you do even half of the things that have been suggested here you will be a more thoughtful bf than 98% of men.

 

Random things that bfs have done in the past that haven't already been suggested: bringing me coffee in the morning (because I'm not a morning person); randomly buying a candy I like, especially if we were going on a long-ish car ride, or I was taking a trip somewhere myself; sharing magazine articles related to something I was interested in but wouldn't have seen on my own; specially ordering horror movies I like from amazon or other sites where you can get hard-to-find titles (my fave kind of movie); planning fun dates about activities I liked: hockey games, "fun runs", a mountain biking weekend, renting cameras and going somewhere picturesque to take photos, etc. One guy wrote me a song and recorded it, made a scrapbook of our dates...Just tweak these thoughtful little gestures to fit her.

 

Typically what I want from a bf is whatever it is that I never get from that particular guy. One guy was GREAT about taking care of me/doing thoughtful little things (like the above, and also things like taking my car for an oil change for me, brushing snow off/starting it up on a cold morning, etc.), but he would never cuddle with me, and rarely told me he loved me, or how he felt. What I reeeaaaalllly wanted from him was to spend some time cuddling. Another guy almost never bought me flowers or did anything else thoughtful, but was all about the cuddling and the verbal stuff. What I really wanted from him was an occasional thoughtful gesture.

[VertexSquared]

I don't think this is your fault at all, to be honest. Some people simply cannot easily accept having others do things for them (for a myriad of reasons) , and as a result of that, when you do stuff for them, you get a slightly negative reaction instead of the appreciative one you might be hoping for. While that should not completely stop you from doing things for her, you might probably need to come to terms with the fact that in this relationship you may receive more than you give simply because she is more comfortable giving. Here's a novel idea; it's okay if it's what works for both of you.

 

You could possibly try making up for it in other less concrete ways instead - for example, even if it's your nature to 'fix' when she talks about her problems, train yourself to listen. It's not easy to change how you respond for such things, but do it for her. If she enjoys a particular hobby that you don't particularly like, do it with her. Those are two examples of things she may not be uncomfortable accepting because they aren't solid 'things you're doing for her' per se, but they are things that will make her happier anyway so essentially you are contributing to her happiness and your relationship by doing them.

 

The relationship between me and my guy is much like that. He gives more in the concrete sense and is uncomfortable accepting the same from me, but I 'give' more in the non-concrete sense, often without letting him know it.

 

Yeah, training myself to "listen" is hard. When she starts venting to me, my mind immediately goes into a sort of engineer-mode where I want to start fixing things. Lately I have to bite my tongue and simply hear her out and cheer her up by trying to think of some simple gesture.

 

While our relationship is founded on honesty (we talk everything out pretty extensively), I can't help but feel that she's still hiding some form of dissatisfaction somewhere. I don't want her to one day look at me and say, "You know, I do all these things for you -- what do you do for me?" It's entirely possible that Ruby/etc is right and I am overthinking this -- and that she IS getting what she wants out of the relationship, but I still want to be the best boyfriend that I can be.

 

I agree that it's "okay if it's what works for both of you," but my fear is that it actually might NOT work for her on some level. I just can't tell -- she's so polite and empathetic, and sometimes I wonder if she ever stops to think about her own needs.

 

Can you describe your relationship a little more? In what ways do you guys exchange "concrete" and "non-concrete" contributions?

[threebyfate]

Vertex, I'm curious about something. When I made the suggestion of a weekend of effort on your part, without openly rejecting it, you ignored it. Rejection of my suggestion isn't important. But it depends on your underlying reasons for rejection, such as not wanting to put in the effort to make her happy for a weekend.

[VertexSquared]

Vertex, I'm curious about something. When I made the suggestion of a weekend of effort on your part, without openly rejecting it, you ignored it. Rejection of my suggestion isn't important. But it depends on your underlying reasons for rejection, such as not wanting to put in the effort to make her happy for a weekend.

 

My apologies -- I didn't mean to act as if I was ignoring your comments. I think the ideas you put forth were great, and I have no reservations doing such a thing. It's just a matter of planning the specific details -- I already do dishes for her (again, I have to kick her out of the kitchen), and try to do things for her where I can. She doesn't live with me and so it's hard to define what a "weekend of no effort" might imply detail-wise. I can certainly try to cook her dinner/do the dishes/etc, but I feel like I have to do more. A lot of our activities are inherently mutual/fun and so it's hard for me to figure out how I'd "make things effortless" for her. Again, it's just that I am somewhat bad at being thoughtful when it comes to giftgiving/gestures/etc. The only thing I know how to do is to try to do small things all the time, but I feel like it isn't enough.

[threebyfate]

My apologies -- I didn't mean to act as if I was ignoring your comments. I think the ideas you put forth were great, and I have no reservations doing such a thing. It's just a matter of planning the specific details -- I already do dishes for her (again, I have to kick her out of the kitchen), and try to do things for her where I can. She doesn't live with me and so it's hard to define what a "weekend of no effort" might imply detail-wise. I can certainly try to cook her dinner/do the dishes/etc, but I feel like I have to do more. A lot of our activities are inherently mutual/fun and so it's hard for me to figure out how I'd "make things effortless" for her. Again, it's just that I am somewhat bad at being thoughtful when it comes to giftgiving/gestures/etc. The only thing I know how to do is to try to do small things all the time, but I feel like it isn't enough.

No worries about rejection of comments. I was just concerned about you not wanting to put forth any serious effort.

 

Is there any reason why she couldn't stay with you for a weekend, if this was planned out in advance? Then, you do have the opportunity to bring her breakfast or coffee/tea in bed, make both lunch and dinner for her. Your meals don't have to elaborate affairs, just reasonably well thought out. It's the gestures of appreciation and effort that count, not the perfection of the gestures.

[that girl]

Just a random thought, but she sounds pretty fussy and high maintenance

She doesn't sound high maintenance to me at all.

 

She sounds like a giver who has a hard time letting other people do for her.

 

I still think planning a weekend getaway is the way to go. Yes, it will cost money, but the OP works in finance and it is a big effort to balance out some of hers.

 

The OP just needs to get accustomed to doing for her rather than suggesting. It sounds like she has a hard time asking people for things.

[Els]

Yeah, training myself to "listen" is hard. When she starts venting to me, my mind immediately goes into a sort of engineer-mode where I want to start fixing things. Lately I have to bite my tongue and simply hear her out and cheer her up by trying to think of some simple gesture.

 

It will be hard, but that's the whole point, isn't it? It's hard but you do it because you love her.

 

While our relationship is founded on honesty (we talk everything out pretty extensively), I can't help but feel that she's still hiding some form of dissatisfaction somewhere. I don't want her to one day look at me and say, "You know, I do all these things for you -- what do you do for me?" It's entirely possible that Ruby/etc is right and I am overthinking this -- and that she IS getting what she wants out of the relationship, but I still want to be the best boyfriend that I can be.

 

Then that is entirely on her. If it ever came down to that, you should calmly tell her (in a nice way, I'm just listing the bare bones here), "I tried as much as I could, but it's difficult with you protesting and making a big deal out of it everytime I do something nice, so if you want nice things done for you you should learn to relax and appreciate them when they're done instead.

 

I agree that it's "okay if it's what works for both of you," but my fear is that it actually might NOT work for her on some level. I just can't tell -- she's so polite and empathetic, and sometimes I wonder if she ever stops to think about her own needs.

 

Again, that is something she needs to learn. You cannot be expected to preempt and follow up on those needs that she herself doesn't think about and communicate. She needs to learn to receive before you can give.

 

Can you describe your relationship a little more? In what ways do you guys exchange "concrete" and "non-concrete" contributions?

 

Whoa, that is one involved question. I'll try to come up with a short list and get back to you with it.

[Els]

Okay, here's a short list:

 

During our LDR, I brainstormed for a way to move to be with him, and spent a lot of time and effort researching and making it possible for the move, while he assumed it couldn't be done. In return, after I moved he supports me financially despite a tight budget, to the extent of buying things that I needed even though he himself didn't have them (he insisted he didn't need them). When I start my postgrad next year, he plans to help me out by getting me a car.

 

I try to do most of the housework in return, but he still cooks for me sometimes and does the laundry, etc. He does little sweet things for me such as bringing me out for nice dinners, making me breakfast in bed, etc which I typically reciprocate sexually (eg putting a lot of effort into giving him a really really really good bj) because I'm just not that creative and he seems to enjoy such reciprocations a lot. I, however, verbally and physically compliment him more. Even if I'm not particularly in the mood, I will reciprocate physical affection because I don't want him to feel rejected. He doesn't when he's really not in the mood. When he is in the mood, he is very giving sexually as well though, putting pretty significant effort into turning me on and insisting that I come before he does.

 

I do lots of research to find the best solution that I can when we or he faces problems (his work application, our difficulty finding a rented house, etc ). As I'm very resourceful, I find things out that most people don't, and this saved his/our butt quite a few times. He doesn't really know the time and effort put into it, he just found it to be very good advice and that things somehow went much more smoothly than he anticipated.

 

When we have small arguments over inconsequential things, I am usually the first to put my ego aside and just bring it to a stop. I am the more mild-tempered of both of us, and so I am usually the one maintaining harmony in the relationship. I also consistently seek ways on how to improve the way I react/handle things emotionally and in the relationship. He isn't really the type to think about such things.

 

As you can see from above, our relationship isn't completely perfect. I probably shouldn't be allowing him to do any of the housework considering the fact that he's working fulltime and supporting me for the 6 months before my course starts so I can be with him, while I'm not working. But laziness, a fault of mine, gets to me sometimes and I let him do so. He probably should be learning how to improve the way he reacts to certain things and how he handles our relationship as well; I believe it would minimize the amount of conflict we have (and trust me, when you've been together for 3 years, there will be some conflict)... but that's just not in his nature to spend time thinking or analysing such things, and I should not expect him to change when that's how he is all along.

 

In your case, an optimal situation would be that she is as loving and giving as she already is but learns how to allow you to reciprocate so that she may not unintentionally cause herself to build up frustration over not receiving (which is a possibility, yes). But maybe, your part in the relationship is to learn how to deal with that and what to do if/when that time comes.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Btw, since she has troubling cumming (some women just do), have you ever considered getting her a vibrator? You should still manually pleasure her despite having one, but you could use it together with your hands/tongue/penis and it may just help her fall of that edge.

[VertexSquared]

Thanks for that great advice/background info.

 

As for the coming issue -- last night she had no problems at all. I think she just has trouble when she's stressed or if we've had too much sex in prior days.

[Confusedalways]

Vertex I really think you're underestimating how easy it is to be thoughtful in the mind of women. You don't need a grand gesture.

 

Whoever suggested randomly bringing her flowers, etc using your cell calendar was right on point. It doesn't have to be something huge... random and little acts can go a LONG way Even a little note helps !