Are you ever 100% sure?

[allina]

 

As far as being a SAHM for 2 years, I would caution you away from this. It's brain defeating to the degree of numbness, deathly numbness. Consider working part-time.

 

That's the loose plan for now, but one that is not set in stone. It's a see as we go type of thing, so I always have the freedom to go back.

 

I'm glad bump has been a healthy and easy baby

[allina]

I doubt that many people are 100% sure. I felt all the same things you are feeling now, and now I feel the same about having a second child!

 

It DEFINITELY doesn't mean that you aren't cut out to be a mum. I think that mothers who worry about being a good mum means that they will be because they care about what they are doing.

 

 

 

 

Same here. I am quite an impatient person at times (although not at work interestingly enough) yet I have much more patience when dealing with my daughter. Even when she has smeared avocado all over her hair, my hair, the floor and the dog.

 

She is the cutest person I know- and watching her grow into herself is just . Even if there are bad moments that involve poo, getting up in the middle of the night multiple times and having to read the same story book over and over again.

 

 

 

Same here! We have a nice equilibrium now, I work part time, we have a nanny, its nice having the extra money from working, I have my figure back etc etc etc..... excuses excuses!

 

 

 

 

I am not just "Mom"- I still have a good social life, admittedly its mostly with other parents because luckily most of my close friends have children the same age as my daughter, but we don't just talk baby stuff. I work, I take time for myself. H and I make time for ourselves as a couple too. Its not always easy, especially at the beginning, but it can be done.

 

I don't think you would regret it. Someone told me the other day that she is having a stressful time with her teenagers- and she told me to enjoy every minute of the early years, because they are so uncomplicated!

 

On the other hand- I can also see why people choose to remain child free, but IMO those people are much more definite in their decision.

 

 

 

You know, some of my days are like this now, definitely more than at the beginning! My mother and baby group were my lifeline and we still meet once a fortnight- some of them have become really close friends. We share babysitting etc.

 

You didn't include baby sleeps in there and most of my day has to be tailored around my daughters sleep times because I like her to have at least one sleep a day in her bed. Sometimes its in the car or the buggy though, thats OK.

Our days aren't on a rigid timetable so we get out most days for a walk, I go to the gym sometimes and drop wonderbaby off at the creche. In the weekends we take her swimming or to the park or the beach- she is too little (1) to really appreciate too much more.

 

My key advice is to not expect to get too much done in a day! I used to be a power-tasker that could get lots of things done in a day, and I wasn't so good at doing nothing.

 

Now, on some days if we walk the dog and get a couple of household chores done its a good day, other days we can get more done- and being flexible and adaptable really helps. Example- cancelling plans with other mums because your child is sick and you don't want the other kids to catch it, or not going to the shops because she hardly slept in the morning and really needs to sleep in the afternoon because she is grouchy etc etc.

 

And some days when my daughter sleeps I do too, or I read a book or watch TV to get me time and I don't feel guilty for it! (anymore) I used to try and do lots of jobs and make dinner etc etc, but I have lowered my standards slightly in the areas of house tidiness and dinner complexity and things are just fine.

 

Absolutely. As I said, my love and patience with my daughter stretches further than I ever thought possible.

 

 

 

Thank you Sb I feel like that was really positive yet honest. I've always admired you and appreciate your opinion (TBF's as well).

 

I think that for me there are two scenarios that are absolute nightmares.

 

1. Being the mom that sits at home all day with the baby and no outside contact, not bothering to dress nicely, baby food crusted in her hair.

 

2. The career mom who is outside of the home all day, picking the baby up from day care late in the evening when it is already sleepy after a long day and never really bonding with, or getting to know her baby.

 

I know that I'm in full control of how I plan this but I want to be sure I land somewhere in the middle of those two examples.

 

Also, good to know about the patience, I think I struggle with that at times.

[allina]

I would still be interested in your answer....

 

Sorry, the way you were phrasing your question didn't seem like you were addressing in to me personally.

 

While I don't think you can exclude biology, my reason for wanting kids some day is that I want to grow our family, my husband and I absolutely love our families and want to start one of our own. We feel like bringing a baby in to this world would be an absolute joy. We know that we have a lot to offer a child, and despite my fears, I think we would be great parents.

 

Yep! "Borrow a friend's/relative's baby for at least a weekend when he/she is teething.....and see how it goes! Then imagine that scenario 24/7!

 

Here is another issue! I don't have ANY friends or family with kids! Out of my friends I'm basically the only married one. My youngest cousin is 15. I don't know any kids! Not having any experience with them is the main source of my doubts/fears.

[sb129]

1. Being the mom that sits at home all day with the baby and no outside contact, not bothering to dress nicely, baby food crusted in her hair.

 

2. The career mom who is outside of the home all day, picking the baby up from day care late in the evening when it is already sleepy after a long day and never really bonding with, or getting to know her baby.

 

I know that I'm in full control of how I plan this but I want to be sure I land somewhere in the middle of those two examples.

 

I am in the middle, and its good. If you can control it, its good- knowing the signs of PND stopped me getting too much like scenario .1, as did making a point of getting out of the house once a day and meeting up with other mothers etc.

 

You would end up making friends with kids once you had one- you naturally gravitate towards mother/ baby groups, play centre, baby music and all that eventually.

 

Allina I have no doubt that you and your H will make wonderful parents. Your children will be beautiful for sure.

I agree about growing the family part of things- my family is important to me, and H has been let down by his so we wanted to make our own too.

[threebyfate]

That's the loose plan for now, but one that is not set in stone. It's a see as we go type of thing, so I always have the freedom to go back.

 

I'm glad bump has been a healthy and easy baby

That's cool that the two of you have discussed it so it's open-ended. For some, it's non-negotiable due to beliefs. But when they get so mired in this type of ideology, it only produces guilt and depression in the mother if she's not happy, with an unhappy ripple effect to the father. Not a good environment for their child and totally unnecessary.

 

Since you're not going to have a baby soon, you've got time to save up. Consider a nanny if you end up unhappy. If you end up happy to be a SAHM, you've now got a nest egg to be put towards pretty much anything, including savings for your little one's future.

 

Thanks. He's a funny little man, charming like his father.

 

I also have no doubt that the two of you will make great parents. From what you've mentioned about your husband and what we've seen on LS with yourself, you're both calm, loving and flexible people.

[sb129]

Good advice TBF.

 

Last week I got sick with a vomiting bug, (thank goodness WBaby didn't get it) and parenting while you are sick is nothing short of hellish. Thankfully our nanny was able to come at short notice so I could hole up in our bedroom and recuperate. We don't have any family here for childcare unfortunately.

 

I hate taking time off work (self employed no work= no pay), and I hate paying the nanny when I am not working, but I must admit last week I thanked my lucky stars we had her, cost or no cost.

[TaraMaiden]

Is it possible to give an answer that isn't biologically or emotionally fuelled?

 

Especially, as in my case, when you already have a child?

Yes, it is possible, because I too have two children, and as stated, my eldest daughter is now a mum.

In hindsight, my decision to have a child was not thought out enough, and I think that practically speaking it was a mistake to have had children, for me.

The population, and subsequent imbalance of the haves and have-nots is really quite terrifying, but I actually don't have a ready-made solution.

China thought they had one, but it seriously backfired on them.

 

....People should not be penalised for having more than one child. They should be rewarded for deciding to not have them.

I was told the following by a young man:

"We don't hate you British, but white people have been in charge for far too long.

We won't fight you though, We'll just breed you out."

The benefits system encourages this thought pattern. People are paid to have children, through a Government Child allowance system. The system has hitherto not been means-tested, but the Government recently tabled a way of quelling the outflow of this allowance - in such a brainless way that I scarcely can believe the foolishness of it.

 

The above argument is unemotional and without biological bias.

It sounds cold, clinical and analytical.

I'm responding because you queried whether it was possible to answer such a question in such a way.

It is, and I'm quite serious in its content.

 

 

Sorry, the way you were phrasing your question didn't seem like you were addressing in to me personally.

 

While I don't think you can exclude biology, my reason for wanting kids some day is that I want to grow our family, my husband and I absolutely love our families and want to start one of our own. We feel like bringing a baby in to this world would be an absolute joy. We know that we have a lot to offer a child, and despite my fears, I think we would be great parents.

This is a completely emotional response.

You're answering a personal emotional desire to have children because of love, joy and the fact that you think you'd make great parents.

none of which am I arguing, by the way.

sb129 is a wonderful mother, and adores her child completely. That much is overwhelmingly obvious. TbF is in the same position.

 

I love my daughters, they love their parents, and I love my grandson because my daughter is also a great parent.

The emotional side is irrefutable, and unbeatable.

The question still remains - all above put aside - WHY do you practically, unemotionally and logically want to have a baby?

 

This is a question which rests unanswered and really should be addressed.

And in case anyone should feel my approach is hostile, or anti-parent, permit me to point a couple of things out:

in the desire to adopt an animal, there are careful checks and vetting procedures put into place to ensure that the prospective pet-owners meet certain criteria for owning, housing and keeping the animal.

In the desire to adopt a child, prospective parents are also put through the mill, in order to prove that they are able - financially, medically, emotionally, educationally, socially and practically - to give the child everything it will need to secure its future and to give it a proper and acceptable upbringing.

 

No such measures are put into place with anyone wishing to have a child of their own.

 

Shouldn't there be?

I mean, really?

 

 

Here is another issue! I don't have ANY friends or family with kids! Out of my friends I'm basically the only married one. My youngest cousin is 15. I don't know any kids! Not having any experience with them is the main source of my doubts/fears.

 

Most first-time mothers have also had little or no experience with having, looking after and raising children.

It's an absolute minefield, and it's the most difficult, unpaid job in the world.

 

if you were to see an advertisement in a newspaper, you'd run a mile and think it ludicrous that anyone should actually volunteer for the job!

 

(Warning: before reading, kindly insert tongue in cheek.....)

 

Wanted: couple (or just a woman) to bring up a child from infancy until maturity.

Must be able to drive, preferably with a house and outdoor space, and must be literate, numerate and able to think on their feet in any situation or emergency.

The applicant will be willing to act as nurse/doctor, teacher, taxi-driver, entertainer, laundry-person, housemaid/butler, general repair person, and cook - and any other application as the need arises, that has not been mentioned here.

Holidays must be frequent and entertaining, and the applicant will need to completely clothe the child and purchase the necessary accessories and accoutrements as requested, for the entire growth period, wherever reasonably possible.

There will be a temptation to "Keep up with the Joneses" which will doubtless be encouraged by the offspring. However, applicants are entirely free to deny, or even accede to such demands, but do either entirely at own risk.

Female applicants should also be prepared to undergo a ten-month transitory period, during which time, Nature will play havoc with hormones and occasionally all hell might be let loose.

Costs will average an estimated $300,000/child and there is no salary.

 

 

 

 

Call me devil's advocate, but hopefully, I've maybe also given you an extra consideration.

Edited November 14, 2010 by TaraMaiden

[allina]

That's cool that the two of you have discussed it so it's open-ended. For some, it's non-negotiable due to beliefs. But when they get so mired in this type of ideology, it only produces guilt and depression in the mother if she's not happy, with an unhappy ripple effect to the father. Not a good environment for their child and totally unnecessary.

 

Since you're not going to have a baby soon, you've got time to save up. Consider a nanny if you end up unhappy. If you end up happy to be a SAHM, you've now got a nest egg to be put towards pretty much anything, including savings for your little one's future.

 

Thanks. He's a funny little man, charming like his father.

 

I also have no doubt that the two of you will make great parents. From what you've mentioned about your husband and what we've seen on LS with yourself, you're both calm, loving and flexible people.

 

Good advice TBF.

 

Last week I got sick with a vomiting bug, (thank goodness WBaby didn't get it) and parenting while you are sick is nothing short of hellish. Thankfully our nanny was able to come at short notice so I could hole up in our bedroom and recuperate. We don't have any family here for childcare unfortunately.

 

I hate taking time off work (self employed no work= no pay), and I hate paying the nanny when I am not working, but I must admit last week I thanked my lucky stars we had her, cost or no cost.

 

Thanks guys

 

Yes, the SAHM option isn't based on a belief that the woman should stay home or anything like that. It's just what I figured would be best/easiest. I know that we can make it work either way.

 

Financially it would be best to wait to have a baby in 3 years, we will be mortgage free by then. We aren't wealthy but we have no debt (other than mortgage) and are good about saving and not over spending. We have discussed starting a college fund for the baby as soon as we are pregnant, and while we're not depending on it, we know that our parents will be very helpful.

 

A full time live in nanny isn't an option but a nanny to come for some 20 hours a week is.

[threebyfate]

It's an absolute minefield, and it's the most difficult, unpaid job in the world.

No it's not. While there are challenges to parenthood, if parents are emotionally healthy, it's not as if the sky is going to fall. You deal with it and more importantly, learn something and move on to the positive.

 

I swear some parents truly enjoy telling their horror stories to people, don't know why. Motherhood for me has been the most awe-inspiring experience. It's truly amazing what wonderful emotional return these little ones can bring. Magical. AND it's not been a big, scary, negative experience.

[TaraMaiden]

No it's not. While there are challenges to parenthood, if parents are emotionally healthy, it's not as if the sky is going to fall. You deal with it and more importantly, learn something and move on to the positive.

Right....'IF'....

And tell me, who vets the parents to see whether they are adequately, suitably and properly emotionally healthy, BEFORE the pregnancy?

You are fine, I'm sure.

I'm not so sure about far too many other parents.

 

I swear some parents truly enjoy telling their horror stories to people, don't know why. Motherhood for me has been the most awe-inspiring experience. It's truly amazing what wonderful emotional return these little ones can bring. Magical.

 

I'm not talking about the awe-inspiring, amazing and wonderful emotional experience.

If we're working on that basis, then yes, I agree with you....

It might not be obvious but I am as subject to the awe-inspiring, amazing and wonderful emotional attraction of my children, as much as anyone is, believe it or not...

 

 

AND it's not been a big, scary, negative experience.

 

To you.... and you've only just begun this journey.

Let's touch base when you've dealt with adolescence, puberty, school, friends and sibling rivalry....

[TaraMaiden]

A full time live in nanny isn't an option but a nanny to come for some 20 hours a week is.

 

This - I really cannot wrap my head around....

[allina]

This is a completely emotional response.

You're answering a personal emotional desire to have children because of love, joy and the fact that you think you'd make great parents.

none of which am I arguing, by the way.

sb129 is a wonderful mother, and adores her child completely. That much is overwhelmingly obvious. TbF is in the same position.

 

 

Most first-time mothers have also had little or no experience with having, looking after and raising children.

It's an absolute minefield, and it's the most difficult, unpaid job in the world.

 

 

Call me devil's advocate, but hopefully, I've maybe also given you an extra consideration.

 

I never said that the decision was not an emotional one. My decision to marry was emotional, and so will be the decision to (or not to) have a baby. While both decisions include a foundation that needs logical thinking and planning, they are emotion based.

 

I don't think parenting is easy I think calling it a minefield is overly dramatic.

 

Devil's advocate or not, your opinions, rants and questions are welcome

[threebyfate]

Right....'IF'....

And tell me, who vets the parents to see whether they are adequately, suitably and properly emotionally healthy, BEFORE the pregnancy?

You are fine, I'm sure.

I'm not so sure about far too many other parents.

We're talking about allina and her husband who are emotionally healthy.

I'm not talking about the awe-inspiring, amazing and wonderful emotional experience.

If we're working on that basis, then yes, I agree with you....

It might not be obvious but I am as subject to the awe-inspiring, amazing and wonderful emotional attraction of my children, as much as anyone is, believe it or not...

Then it's more realistic to portray both sides of your experience, rather than just the negative perceptions. Can't say I've had any traumatic negatives happen yet but I'm sure they'll happen. But when they do, we'll handle it, learn something and move on.

To you.... and you've only just begun this journey.

Let's touch base when you've dealt with adolescence, puberty, school, friends and sibling rivalry....

Yup, yup, same ol' same ol' that "parents" said to me about pregnancy and raising a baby. So far, so good, even though I had third-trimester difficulties and bitched about them at the time. But it was worth it so I've moved on. The sky is not falling.

[allina]

This - I really cannot wrap my head around....

 

Why? What's so confusing about this?

 

For example, my husband and I enjoy kayaking, not a kid friendly activity. I see nothing wrong with a nanny or sitter coming over on a Saturday morning to care for the child and possibly go grocery shopping while hubby and I spend the morning out on the ocean.

 

It would be important for us to still enjoy the adult activities that we enjoy now, even once we've had kids. While I fully expect these activities to be limited I see no reason to completely give them up.

 

Since my parents still lead full and exciting lives I will not expect them to be on call baby sitters.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yup, yup, same ol' same ol' that "parents" said to me about pregnancy and raising a baby. So far, so good, even though I had third-trimester difficulties and bitched about them at the time. But it was worth it so I've moved on. The sky is not falling.

 

My gosh I know! Some parents bitch about the totally normal life stages their kids go through like it is some kind of brutal test or torture. We have started the temper tantrum phase. NOT THE END OF THE WORLD!

 

Teething was hard on her and she started at 3.5 months old and got her first teeth at 5 months. But it was spread out and not like it was a nightly nightmare. She has her full set now

 

She got sick sometimes, we watched over her. She has been a joy and quite frankly, far less stressfull than running a business or living on the street. She is a joy Sharing that joy with your partner is fantastic!

 

And yes, you will change. In fact, your very brain wiring changes to bond with your infant. The oxytocin released during birth and breastfeeding really seals the deal. (I wasn't able to produce much milk but she got "snacks & desserts" for the first 3 months.

 

It feels like life starts with them.

 

Sure the world population is sky-high, sure the haves and have nots exist and there is a sizeable gap there. In your life though that probably doesn't weigh in. Your day to day would involve family. I think that our governments don't put enough emphasis on families and healthy families. Maybe if they did that instead of just trying to restrict people from reproducing then people would plan their families better instead of us having to restrict our own choice to reproduce.

 

I was told for ten years that I would not be able to have a child, so we got 4 dogs instead. 2 dogs were the parents and two were puppies. Surprise! My daughter came along. When I found out I was pregnant (I thought I was just very very ill) I was in shock and was wondering if I was even really wanting to have a child. I sat down and thought about why I wouldn't want a child.

 

The only two reasons were:

 

1) If I travel on an airplane, kids can be very annoying, 2) it would also be more expensive to go on holidays.

 

Um, since I hadn't been able to afford going on holidays anyways, I think we were all good.

[threebyfate]

Teething was hard on her and she started at 3.5 months old and got her first teeth at 5 months. But it was spread out and not like it was a nightly nightmare. She has her full set now

Bump just started teething within the last week so he's a bit of a late starter on that, as he's 5 months old. But it was pretty obvious what was happening since he had the rashy cheeks, started drooling more and had the low-grade temperature. It was expected. We've been dealing with it with a touch of infant tylenol if necessary and he's been sleeping fine since.

 

She got sick sometimes, we watched over her. She has been a joy and quite frankly, far less stressfull than running a business or living on the street. She is a joy Sharing that joy with your partner is fantastic!

Straight up. He's a cake-walk compared to my job. At least there's a logical reason when he's angsty. The adults I come into contact with are sometimes the most irrational...babies!

 

I was told for ten years that I would not be able to have a child, so we got 4 dogs instead. 2 dogs were the parents and two were puppies. Surprise! My daughter came along. When I found out I was pregnant (I thought I was just very very ill) I was in shock and was wondering if I was even really wanting to have a child. I sat down and thought about why I wouldn't want a child.

So you're juggling 4 dogs and a toddler? Whoah, way to go! We only have our older dog and cat, who are both fairly low maintenance.

[sb129]

TM- I understand what you are trying to say, a patient of mine said the same thing to me last week. She is having a rough time with a difficult teen. From what I can gather its a stressful thankless task and a considerable financial burden for her at the moment.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence btw.

 

I know what you mean by the british welfare system encouraging people to have children, it certainly seemed that way to me when I was living there and lots of those people weren't well qualified to bring up a puppy let alone a baby.

You are right- many people SHOULDN't have children. But, unfortunately, there is no way of stopping them.

 

I would like to think that by having children, (if I do my job as a parent well enough) I am giving society another contributing member(s), functioning people who will work hard and enjoy life as I have, rather than giving it members who will continue to bludge off the system.

 

Someones gotta counterbalance the bludgers. Hell maybe I should have six to make it fair.

[dreamingoftigers]

Bump just started teething within the last week so he's a bit of a late starter on that, as he's 5 months old. But it was pretty obvious what was happening since he had the rashy cheeks, started drooling more and had the low-grade temperature. It was expected. We've been dealing with it with a touch of infant tylenol if necessary and he's been sleeping fine since.

 

Straight up. He's a cake-walk compared to my job. At least there's a logical reason when he's angsty. The adults I come into contact with are sometimes the most irrational...babies!

 

So you're juggling 4 dogs and a toddler? Whoah, way to go! We only have our older dog and cat, who are both fairly low maintenance.

 

No, we had to downsize. We used to live on some lake-front property outside of Ottawa, but when the pregnancy became high-risk, we moved into the city into a one-bedroom apartment. 4 dogs in there was just too insane so we gave away 1. We tried to keep 3 after T was born but it was still too crazy. So now we just have one.

Edited January 25, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TaraMaiden]

TM- I understand what you are trying to say, a patient of mine said the same thing to me last week. She is having a rough time with a difficult teen. From what I can gather its a stressful thankless task and a considerable financial burden for her at the moment.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence btw.

 

I know what you mean by the british welfare system encouraging people to have children, it certainly seemed that way to me when I was living there and lots of those people weren't well qualified to bring up a puppy let alone a baby.

You are right- many people SHOULDN't have children. But, unfortunately, there is no way of stopping them.

 

I would like to think that by having children, (if I do my job as a parent well enough) I am giving society another contributing member(s), functioning people who will work hard and enjoy life as I have, rather than giving it members who will continue to bludge off the system.

 

Someones gotta counterbalance the bludgers. Hell maybe I should have six to make it fair.

You Get It.

I knew you would.

 

And I thank you for that.

 

The point I am making is that 99.99% of the time, our motives for wanting to start a family, are emotive.

They're bound to be.

They're based on being with a partner we're committed to, someone we love, and having children (for most couples who have children) is a symbol of how firm that unity is.

 

Or rather, I believe that's what having children is all about, emotionally speaking.

But as you rightly point out - there are too many people ill-equipped to be parents, becoming parents.

as I have said, I have no ready answer or solution.

because chiefly, that is precisely why I had children.

because my reasoning was founded entirely on the emotional motivation.

 

What I am saying, is that we need to try to develop a sounder social conscience.

we need to think long-term and try to pre-empt the social and cultural difficulties we are creating now.

Essentially, wanting - and having - children could be said to be a selfish desire, an instinct to perpetuate who we are, and keep the line going.

But globally, this is fast becoming a sticky issue....

 

Socially, we are creating generations who are going to be long-lived individuals, with a scarcity of jobs and educational opportunities.

People are living longer, staying healthy and remaining active, for a far longer period that say, our grandparents.

But the world is becoming a 'smaller' place, the economy is getting more difficult to administrate, countries which once were hostile with one another, now form perfect economic bedfellows.... But every country is facing the dilemma of what to do with its working population....How to feed them, keep them working, and keep them fit and active - and busy!

 

Culturally, we are all shifting frontiers and moving into other peoples' territories, while others are moving into 'ours'. Logistically speaking, it's getting harder and harder to know exactly what 'our country' actually is....

 

All these issues seem far removed from our sitting rooms and our little babies, and they seem to be somebody else's problem.

But when we speak of Society, we forget we ARE society, and as responsible as anyone else for what happens 'out there'.

And as the adage goes, "If you're not part of the Solution, you're part of the problem'.

(That's actually a very old African proverb. Eldridge Cleaver adapted it in a speech he made. But if it's such an old proverb, then the problem is not such a new one....!)

 

This is what the basis of my question was.

 

The question still remains:

Why do you want a child?

 

(And it applies as much to me, in hindsight, as it would to anyone.)

I can't put the clock back, and nor can I change anything I have hitherto done. Neither can anyone else.

But it's my most sincere belief that we need to think Globally, act locally, and ponder our actions, and the consequences, before doing things.)

 

sb129 - thank you for having the insight and understanding to 'get it'.

Looking at simply our own personal situation, and justifying it, and asserting that simply because we have got it right it makes everything else all right, and not our concern - is both blinkered AND short-sighted.

Life on this planet can no longer be played out in our own yard.

we, as intelligent, free-thinking, rational human beings have a social responsibility to consider our actions and the after-shocks.

To dismiss such notions is palying russian roulette with the future of the earth.

[TaraMaiden]

TM- I understand what you are trying to say, a patient of mine said the same thing to me last week. She is having a rough time with a difficult teen. From what I can gather its a stressful thankless task and a considerable financial burden for her at the moment.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence btw.

 

I know what you mean by the british welfare system encouraging people to have children, it certainly seemed that way to me when I was living there and lots of those people weren't well qualified to bring up a puppy let alone a baby.

You are right- many people SHOULDN't have children. But, unfortunately, there is no way of stopping them.

 

I would like to think that by having children, (if I do my job as a parent well enough) I am giving society another contributing member(s), functioning people who will work hard and enjoy life as I have, rather than giving it members who will continue to bludge off the system.

 

Someones gotta counterbalance the bludgers. Hell maybe I should have six to make it fair.

You Get It.

I knew you would.

 

And I thank you for that.

 

The point I am making is that 99.99% of the time, our motives for wanting to start a family, are emotive.

They're bound to be.

They're based on being with a partner we're committed to, someone we love, and having children (for most couples who have children) is a symbol of how firm that unity is.

 

Or rather, I believe that's what having children is all about, emotionally speaking.

But as you rightly point out - there are too many people ill-equipped to be parents, becoming parents.

as I have said, I have no ready answer or solution.

because chiefly, that is precisely why I had children.

because my reasoning was founded entirely on the emotional motivation.

 

What I am saying, is that we need to try to develop a sounder social conscience.

we need to think long-term and try to pre-empt the social and cultural difficulties we are creating now.

Essentially, wanting - and having - children could be said to be a selfish desire, an instinct to perpetuate who we are, and keep the line going.

But globally, this is fast becoming a sticky issue....

 

Socially, we are creating generations who are going to be long-lived individuals, with a scarcity of jobs and educational opportunities.

People are living longer, staying healthy and remaining active, for a far longer period that say, our grandparents.

But the world is becoming a 'smaller' place, the economy is getting more difficult to administrate, countries which once were hostile with one another, now form perfect economic bedfellows.... But every country is facing the dilemma of what to do with its working population....How to feed them, keep them working, and keep them fit and active - and busy!

 

Culturally, we are all shifting frontiers and moving into other peoples' territories, while others are moving into 'ours'. Logistically speaking, it's getting harder and harder to know exactly what 'our country' actually is....

 

All these issues seem far removed from our sitting rooms and our little babies, and they seem to be somebody else's problem.

But when we speak of Society, we forget we ARE society, and as responsible as anyone else for what happens 'out there'.

And as the adage goes, "If you're not part of the Solution, you're part of the problem'.

(That's actually a very old African proverb. Eldridge Cleaver adapted it in a speech he made. But if it's such an old proverb, then the problem is not such a new one....!)

 

This is what the basis of my question was.

 

The question still remains:

Why do you want a child?

 

(And it applies as much to me, in hindsight, as it would to anyone.)

I can't put the clock back, and nor can I change anything I have hitherto done. Neither can anyone else.

But it's my most sincere belief that we need to think Globally, act locally, and ponder our actions, and the consequences, before doing things.)

 

sb129 - thank you for having the insight and understanding to 'get it'.

Looking at simply our own personal situation, and justifying it, and asserting that simply because we have got it right it makes everything else all right, and not our concern - is both blinkered AND short-sighted.

Life on this planet can no longer be played out in our own yard.

we, as intelligent, free-thinking, rational human beings have a social responsibility to consider our actions and the after-shocks.

To dismiss such notions is playing Russian roulette with the future of this litle lump of sod we call Earth.

[GorillaTheater]

What I am saying, is that we need to try to develop a sounder social conscience.

we need to think long-term and try to pre-empt the social and cultural difficulties we are creating now.

Essentially, wanting - and having - children could be said to be a selfish desire, an instinct to perpetuate who we are, and keep the line going.

But globally, this is fast becoming a sticky issue....

 

I had a bunch of kids so that, when civilization collapses, I'd have my own ready-made private army. My position as a future local warlord is secure.

 

The only real insight I have to offer is this: however difficult anyone thinks toddlers can be, it's nothing compared to when they're teenagers. And I'd happily do it all over again.

[sb129]

I had a bunch of kids so that, when civilization collapses, I'd have my own ready-made private army. My position as a future local warlord is secure.

 

The only real insight I have to offer is this: however difficult anyone thinks toddlers can be, it's nothing compared to when they're teenagers. And I'd happily do it all over again.

 

:lmao:

 

Can't wait for those teenage years....!

 

TM- interesting that you say you may not have had children if you had your time over.

 

Are your kids contributing to society in a way that makes you proud?

[TaraMaiden]

First of all, I have no idea why that posted twice.

 

Secondly, if you're looking for Volunteers for your Regiment GT, Show me the forms and I'll sign them.

 

Thirdly:

 

TM- interesting that you say you may not have had children if you had your time over.

Are your kids contributing to society in a way that makes you proud?

Not necessarily.

I'm proud to have had children, and my eldest, particularly, is very close to me.

And she's a mum too now, and her little boy is an absolute dream.... But I don't know that a specific or significant contribution to society is evident.

But they both have jobs, and pay their way, and adhere to the strictures of the Law and social, moral and ethical 'guidelines'....so a subtle contribution exists, I guess....

 

I don't know it that adequately answers your question, but thank you for putting it....

[threebyfate]

I had a bunch of kids so that, when civilization collapses, I'd have my own ready-made private army. My position as a future local warlord is secure.

 

The only real insight I have to offer is this: however difficult anyone thinks toddlers can be, it's nothing compared to when they're teenagers. And I'd happily do it all over again.

Oddly enough, my nephews who are both teenagers are easy going. H. also has teenage nieces and nephews on his side that aren't any real problem. Some of my friends have teenagers where one had a problem with one girl for about a year but now she's settled down at the ripe old age of 16.

 

I'm not sure why people on LS have so many problems with their kids. Or maybe I'm just a helluva' lot more tolerant of children and teenagers since I expect them to act up sometimes and when they do, don't think it's a big deal.

[hotgurl]

my Dauhter is 15 and she is so good. She ahs always been an easy child and now as a teen we have had no trouble so far.

 

But I also don't sweat the small stuff like some parents do.She can dye her hair and cut it how she wants, she can listen to whatever music she wants and dress how she wants as long as it fits in with th e school dress code. which basically states you boobs and butt can't be haning out. I have two 1/2 years left until college.