The End.

[threebyfate]

I think this is where our definitions may differ. I wouldn't be surprised if behaviors you define as acting out would be behaviors I defined as acceptable under serious grief. That is because grief is different for everyone, in each situation.

 

You might say then it is up to the griever to make more clear the depth and color of his pain -- *~communication!~* Oh, how empty these buzz-words are -- but I might remind you of a common catch-phrase: that there are two people in a relationship. Only one of them, meanwhile, is experiencing relative normalcy, and rationality to their thought. Don't you think it is THAT person that should take it upon themselves to act upon their reason and become more reasonable -- more accepting? "Unacceptable" is a telling phrase.

 

And we're not talking about physical abuse. We're talking about withdrawal, which is a very common reaction to pain. Most animals withdraw when in pain. You realize that pain is physiological? That is causes chemical changes within the body and brain?

 

And this is all ignoring the facts of this particular relationship, between TA and C. I really do appreciate that you've landed a "keeper", a definition which apparently includes grieving the way you'd prefer one grieves, but I find that your position is unnecessarily narrow, and so it would be unfair to offer that viewpoint as advice in general, which you keep doing.

Strange how Art, my husband and myself can control ourselves enough not to take personal stress out on a partner. If it's so unusual, why are there three examples staring you in the face? It's not difficult to realise that your partner or any loved one isn't responsible for your stress or grief.

 

Withdrawal isn't unusual. Shutting down without communication to your partner, particularly if they've contacted you four times is rude, childish and selfish behaviour. Read what I previously wrote before getting on your high horse.

[tigressA]

It hasn't even been 2 days.

 

I'm not saying he's perfect/she's wrong. They BOTH have issues. I'm not saying they're in/compatible. I'm not saying this is a good/bad relationship. I have yet to conclude one way or another about any of that, as there's honestly just been too much drama for me to keep track of who's turn it is to wrong the other. (A knows I say that with love...she knows it's been drama from the start, she's said it herself!)

 

ALL I'm saying is that THIS single instance of behavior (right or wrong, doesn't matter) in and of itself is not breakup worthy (and shouldn't even be included in her analysis, either). You and TBF feel otherwise. That's where we disagree.

 

Questions, Star...Say he didn't contact me after 3 or 4 days, or a week. Would that be breakup worthy? Where would the threshold be for you? And why shouldn't this be included in my analysis, in your opinion?

[Star Gazer]

I think this is where our definitions may differ. I wouldn't be surprised if behaviors you define as acting out would be behaviors I defined as acceptable under serious grief. That is because grief is different for everyone, in each situation.

 

You might say then it is up to the griever to make more clear the depth and color of his pain -- *~communication!~* Oh, how empty these buzz-words are -- but I might remind you of a common catch-phrase: that there are two people in a relationship. Only one of them, meanwhile, is experiencing relative normalcy, and rationality to their thought. Don't you think it is THAT person that should take it upon themselves to act upon their reason and become more reasonable -- more accepting? "Unacceptable" is a telling phrase.

 

And we're not talking about physical abuse. We're talking about withdrawal, which is a very common reaction to pain. Most animals withdraw when in pain. You realize that pain is physiological? That is causes chemical changes within the body and brain?

 

And this is all ignoring the facts of this particular relationship, between TA and C. I really do appreciate that you've landed a "keeper", a definition which apparently includes grieving the way you'd prefer one grieves, but I find that your position is unnecessarily narrow, and so it would be unfair to offer that viewpoint as advice in general, which you keep doing.

 

Another awe inspiring post. If only I could communicate these same thoughts with even a fraction of the style you do.

[tigressA]

Withdrawal isn't unusual. Shutting down without communication to your partner, particularly if they've contacted you four times is rude, childish and selfish behaviour. Read what I previously wrote before getting on your high horse.

 

Thank you, TBF...though to be accurate, it was 3 out of 4 efforts at contact that were left unanswered. The first one was.

[threebyfate]

Thank you, TBF...though to be accurate, it was 3 out of 4 efforts at contact that were left unanswered. The first one was.

You're welcome. I included the first one since his paraphrased response was "I'll try". Apparently he didn't try.

[welikeincrowds]

Withdrawal isn't unusual. Shutting down without communication to your partner, particularly if they've contacted you four times is rude, childish and selfish behaviour.

getting on your high horse.

 

I cannot believe you wrote this side by side and could not immediately see the irony. I try not to discuss the person behind the argument, and only the argument, but I think it may be more important that you see this.

 

You are the one making flat ethics judgments out of deeply complex, deeply human issues in ambiguous circumstances. You're repeatedly throwing out evidence that doesn't seem to matter to you, when it is absolutely a part of the story. And finally, you take it all back to his worth and value as a human being.

 

I have known to be an equestrian myself, so I say this with no malice or judgment.

 

You are on the highest horse in this thread.

[tigressA]

Ohh, how interesting.

 

I couldn't really resist stalking him on Facebook for a minute, and I noticed that his friends list was SEVERELY cut down--to 24, from what used to be almost 100.

 

What can be concluded other than that he has time to be on Facebook, and yet no time to respond to my voicemails.

 

I knew I was right in ending it. This only confirms it even further.

[welikeincrowds]

What can be concluded other than that he has time to be on Facebook, and yet no time to respond to my voicemails.

 

Or that he has the energy to be destructive and negative with his relationships, but not constructive and positive. Which may be why he has chosen to withdraw from you.

 

You're still on his friends list, right?

[tigressA]

Or that he has the energy to be destructive and negative with his relationships, but not constructive and positive. Which may be why he has chosen to withdraw from you.

 

You're still on his friends list, right?

 

I deleted him last night, and then deactivated my account.

[threebyfate]

I cannot believe you wrote this side by side and could not immediately see the irony. I try not to discuss the person behind the argument, and only the argument, but I think it may be more important that you see this.

 

You are the one making flat ethics judgments out of deeply complex, deeply human issues in ambiguous circumstances. You're repeatedly throwing out evidence that doesn't seem to matter to you, when it is absolutely a part of the story. And finally, you take it all back to his worth and value as a human being.

 

I have known to be an equestrian myself, so I say this with no malice or judgment.

 

You are on the highest horse in this thread.

Let's clarify something. Are you married or in any long-term relationship? I ask this question since there are commonalities amongst relationships that are built on love, trust and respect for each other.

 

Without these three elements that have to be maintained on an on-going basis, relationships will not last.

 

This guy isn't treating T with respect, love or trust. This is fact. He's treated her in like fashion with the "very, very good friend" scenario, as well. He doesn't treat her in a way that a man in love should treat a valued partner. This is fact.

 

Don't know how much bad behaviour some of you believe should be okay within relationships but there's just no excuse for his behaviour. NONE.

[threebyfate]

Ohh, how interesting.

 

I couldn't really resist stalking him on Facebook for a minute, and I noticed that his friends list was SEVERELY cut down--to 24, from what used to be almost 100.

 

What can be concluded other than that he has time to be on Facebook, and yet no time to respond to my voicemails.

 

I knew I was right in ending it. This only confirms it even further.

What about his dating site profile? Has he been online?

[tigressA]

What about his dating site profile? Has he been online?

 

You must've been absent from LS then...we both deleted our profiles awhile back. September. He was the one who suggested deleting them. I had suggested disabling them and he said, "What, you don't think it'll work out with us?"

 

Ugh. hahahahaha

[threebyfate]

You must've been absent from LS then...we both deleted our profiles awhile back. September. He was the one who suggested deleting them. I had suggested disabling them and he said, "What, you don't think it'll work out with us?"

 

Ugh. hahahahaha

I haven't been on LS much the last month or two so yes, I did miss this.

 

[tigressA]

I haven't been on LS much the last month or two so yes, I did miss this.

 

 

Good thing I saved all the text from my profile before deleting it. Now I just have to copy and paste once I decide to jump back in!

[Citizen Erased]

Ohh, how interesting.

 

I couldn't really resist stalking him on Facebook for a minute, and I noticed that his friends list was SEVERELY cut down--to 24, from what used to be almost 100.

 

What can be concluded other than that he has time to be on Facebook, and yet no time to respond to my voicemails.

 

I knew I was right in ending it. This only confirms it even further.

 

Bad girl! No checking his facebook!

 

I'm sure you're doing the right thing. I'd still send him an email though, I can't see him contacting you for some reason and it will drive you nuts not having a word in. Or at least it would me.

[welikeincrowds]

Let's clarify something. Are you married or in any long-term relationship?

 

Let's clarify something. My current relationship is irrelevant. TA and C were not married. TA and C were not in a long-term relationship. And those, threebyfate, are the only facts.

 

I don't agree with all of his behaviors. I don't agree with all of hers, either.

 

For the record, I don't necessarily think that ending it was a bad idea. I don't have a good enough grip on the story to know for certain. I do know that over the course of the month or so, TA's perception went from "I'm taking it too fast and putting too much pressure on him," to "I'm feeling like this has to be the end." That seems like a movement between two extremes, but also like a natural conclusion. So be it!

 

This latest behavior of his, meanwhile, the supposed straw that broke the camel's back, is not so easy to judge as you claim. You seem to think he owes her something that I don't think he does. Or it's that I think she owes him something that you don't think she does. Either way, we disagree on this issue, and I doubt we'll ever reach an agreement, and while I see that as further evidence that grievances are not so easily defined, you will (hopefully not, but likely) see it as my inability to grasp at what you feel is common sense. Feel free to trot, just don't gallop.

Edited November 7, 2010 by welikeincrowds
accidentally wrote "relevant" instead of "irrelevant" -- oops

[tigressA]

Bad girl! No checking his facebook!

 

I'm sure you're doing the right thing. I'd still send him an email though, I can't see him contacting you for some reason and it will drive you nuts not having a word in. Or at least it would me.

 

No, I'm not going to do that. I already got the last word in. Wasn't the one I typically would've wanted, but...hey, can't always get what you want. I refuse to yield any more ground to him by contacting him yet again.

 

Welikeincrowds, what do you think I owe him, if anything?

[threebyfate]

Good thing I saved all the text from my profile before deleting it. Now I just have to copy and paste once I decide to jump back in!

Way to go!

 

Let's clarify something. My current relationship is relevant. TA and C were not married. TA and C were not in a long-term relationship. And those, threebyfate, are the only facts.

If it's relevant, then do tell!

 

you will see it as my inability to grasp at what you feel is common sense.

Yes, that's exactly how I see it. Communication, love, trust and respect are no-brainers in functional relationships.

 

But sure, let's agree to disagree. I'm more than game for that.

 

You remind me of someone and have since our first interaction.

[welikeincrowds]

If it's relevant, then do tell!

 

Ha, I ****ed up there. I meant to write irrelevant.

 

Communication, love, trust and respect are no-brainers in functional relationships.

Oh come on now. I saw something like this coming which is why I specifically told you not to gallop!

 

You know I consider those no-brainers as well. The difference is that I don't see certain grieving behaviors as inherently disrespectful; and in some cases I don't see communication as very possible; and yes, there should be trust, that a person in grief would not be held to the same standard as a person who just stubbed their toe.

 

 

Welikeincrowds, what do you think I owe him, if anything?

You mean your "very very good friend"? Yeah. Not much. What I meant by that when I said it was the benefit of the doubt when in grieving, but in your case, I'm pretty sure you're making the right choice.

[threebyfate]

Ha, I ****ed up there. I meant to write irrelevant.

But it's extremely relevant. Do you know how to have a functional and happy relationship? Have you honestly had one or are in one now?

 

Oh come on now. I saw something like this coming which is why I specifically told you not to gallop!

You telling me what to do, really is irrelevant.

 

You know I consider those no-brainers as well. The difference is that I don't see certain grieving behaviors as inherently disrespectful; and in some cases I don't see communication as very possible; and yes, there should be trust, that a person in grief would not be held to the same standard as a person who just stubbed their toe.

Could you explain how difficult it is to say to a loved one "I need some time right now to process my uncle's death. Right now I'm torn apart inside. While I love/care about you, I'm falling apart. Plse understand".

 

Tigress, if he called you back that night when he said he would try, how would you have reacted?

 

I'm focused on tigress's relationship with her very, very good friend and the circumstances surrounding her calling it quits.

[tigressA]

You mean your "very very good friend"? Yeah. Not much. What I meant by that when I said it was the benefit of the doubt when in grieving, but in your case, I'm pretty sure you're making the right choice.

 

Thank you.

 

I feel pretty pissed off right now...he's so f*cking childish. It's like he expects a relationship he's in to not take any work at all, that two people are supposed to just magically understand each other and not have to TALK to have their partner know what they need. I don't want to be with someone like that.

 

LoveLace, that's not even relevant anymore, sorry. I've already ended things and he just doesn't know yet because he hasn't gotten in touch with me.

[Art_Critic]

I'm focused on tigress's relationship with her very, very good friend and the circumstances surrounding her calling it quits.

 

ahhhh.. the thread topic..

[threebyfate]

ahhhh.. the thread topic..

Forgive me for trying to stay on topic.

[tigressA]

Could you explain how difficult it is to say to a loved one "I need some time right now to process my uncle's death. Right now I'm torn apart inside. While I love/care about you, I'm falling apart. Plse understand".

 

Tigress, if he called you back that night when he said he would try, how would you have reacted?

 

I'm focused on tigress's relationship with her very, very good friend and the circumstances surrounding her calling it quits.

 

I wouldn't have decided to break up with him if he had called back that night. This thread wouldn't exist if he had.

 

He was also working this whole weekend, which is why I couldn't see him--we had planned for me going there for the weekend but then he found out he had to work. And since he's only been back for a week and he was gone for so long, and they're the only reason for him being here in the States...had no choice but to call off that visit.

 

When he was here Wednesday night, he was talking about how he felt. He did say that he should take some time for himself and focus on his work, etc. I said, trying to be helpful, "Yes...and I understand if you don't want to see me for a little while, whatever..." and he said, "You're not the only person in my life." WTF? I just sat there and said, "I know, I didn't mean it that way...I was just trying to help." He apologized, and squeezed my hand.

[Kamille]

 

When he was here Wednesday night, he was talking about how he felt. He did say that he should take some time for himself and focus on his work, etc. I said, trying to be helpful, "Yes...and I understand if you don't want to see me for a little while, whatever..." and he said, "You're not the only person in my life." WTF? I just sat there and said, "I know, I didn't mean it that way...I was just trying to help." He apologized, and squeezed my hand.

 

Wait... So he said he needed time and you basically told him you were okay with him taking the time he needs?

 

And... What does "you're not the only person in my life" mean?

 

This has to be the most confusing very very good friendship ever!