Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Wars are also caused by people being intolerant of other's opinions - religious wars for instance.

 

That simply doesn't happen. Even the crusades were all about wealth and power!

 

Actually, I love sensitive men who aren't afraid to cry and show their emotions (for whatever reason) and I don't think you can compare a man wearing pretty dresses to a woman having sex. All woman have sex, most men don't wear pretty dresses.

 

Somehow I think if I told you that you felt the sky was blue... you would tell me you actually feel it's red.

 

And, no, that's not what I'd think about a guy who'd slept with 300 women. I probably wouldn't date him because I wouldn't feel special and I don't believe he'd ever be faithful. He'd also have to prove to me first that he's treated every one of those women with kindness and respect, which is a tough call I think with numbers that high.

 

... and yet... I'm not allowed to have those same doubts?

 

No, it doesn't, it means she enjoys sex and she does well with men, just like that man who's had 300 women.

No, they're not statements, it was one question:

Where do you draw the line at calling a woman a hoe? I genuinely don't understand your definition and I'd be very interested to hear your answer.

 

Don't be silly. Even the fattest ugliest woman on the planet could have 200 guys in 1 day if she wanted. That's just the way things work

 

So...YES it does mean she isn't picky.

 

As to where I draw the line... it depends on who we are talking about. Not every situation is the same. I can tell you for sure though that it has to do with how a woman views sex. That was a valid question.

 

Have I, or anybody on this thread, said anything about wanting a traditional type of guy? If you are what is considered traditional then I certainly don't. I prefer my men to be a little more open minded. And what makes you think I'm not a traditional kind of woman? Just because I believe in 'live and let live', that doesn't mean I'm into FWB myself. I'm sensing a little chip on somebody's shoulder here.

 

Well... Maybe it's because all but 1 girl I've met who was into FWB was a cheat.

 

I'm sorry, but I used to believe just like you, but I'm not young and naive anymore. I thought that if a woman slept around a lot she just liked sex. Fact is... most of the time it means she is just messed in the head.

[LittleTiger]

You might say you love sensitive guys who cry but most women do not. In fact a trend I have noticed is that the more manly a man is the better he seems to do with women.

 

My man is very manly AND he cries.

 

Being sensitive is human - men who can't express their feelings need therapy IMO.

[2sunny]

I'm willing to give you a shot here to change the old opinion.

 

Why would you sleep with a guy you don't care for?

 

 

 

Same question to you.

 

Why would you sleep with someone you don't have feeling for?

 

because i may get horny and ONLY want the sex. mind you - i'm a gal that was with the same man for 23 years.

 

IF i decided i want a certain man only for sex and nothing else because he's hot - i would ask him if that's ok with him.

 

i did do it this way for about a year or so. it worked best. sex only - hot sex - steamy sex. no attachment. no time wasted pretending. no lies. just for the shear fun of it!

 

when the demands became bigger - i ended it. i wasn't into demands at that time - i'd had 23 years of that...

 

it was fun while it lasted. we were both honest. it was awesome. we are still very compatible friends. he just emailed me something really funny an hour ago.

[stillafool]

I'm willing to give you a shot here to change the old opinion.

 

Why would you sleep with a guy you don't care for?

 

 

I wouldn't. I've never been one who was into casual sex but I don't throw stones at people who do.

 

 

Why would you sleep with someone you don't have feeling for?

 

Again, I can't. I've been fortunate in life to have men care for me as I've cared for them. But, women just like men have biological needs and if a woman doesn't want a bf it certainly doesn't mean she doesn't need sex. Just like a man needs sex. What is this woman to do?

[2sunny]

on a different but somewhat the same note... i see people all the time who stay in terrible relationships thinking that IF someone HAS sex with them - that it means they are loved... when, in fact, there is NO loving behavior at all! it looks sad and pathetic watching them deceive themselves. love and sex are separate.

 

if great balance with love and sex is obtained... THAT can be phenomenal! a spiritual experience! a connection of mind, body and spirit... but it doesn't always happen that way.

 

so sex does not equate love. and love does not equate sex. two different things entirely.

[LittleTiger]

That simply doesn't happen. Even the crusades were all about wealth and power!

 

There are examples of religious 'wars' which, even where they involved a struggle for wealth and/or power were started because of religious 'differences of opinion'.

 

Somehow I think if I told you that you felt the sky was blue... you would tell me you actually feel it's red.

 

That's a little ridiculous don't you think. My comment was sincere.

 

 

... and yet... I'm not allowed to have those same doubts?

 

You can have whatever doubts you wish about any women you choose to have a relationship with. What I object to is you calling women 'low-grade' or 'hoes' because they don't act the way you think women should act.

 

Don't be silly. Even the fattest ugliest woman on the planet could have 200 guys in 1 day if she wanted. That's just the way things work

 

So...YES it does mean she isn't picky.

 

Perhaps you'd like to swap places for a day with a fat, ugly girl (nice description by the way) and see just how many guys want to sleep with you!

 

As to where I draw the line... it depends on who we are talking about. Not every situation is the same. I can tell you for sure though that it has to do with how a woman views sex. That was a valid question.

 

So, as long as she views sex as something to be shared only in a loving relationship as an extension of her emotions that makes her a decent girl? Regardless of how many men she has slept with, in or out of wedlock?

 

Well... Maybe it's because all but 1 girl I've met who was into FWB was a cheat.

 

I know lots of very 'nice' girls who have enjoyed FWB and who would never consider cheating when in a relationship.

 

I'm sorry, but I used to believe just like you, but I'm not young and naive anymore. I thought that if a woman slept around a lot she just liked sex. Fact is... most of the time it means she is just messed in the head.

 

I'm not young and naive either (it wouldn't surprise me if I'm older than you are) and, as far as I'm aware, we're not talking about women who sleep around a lot. This is what I keep asking you to clarify. I thought we were talking about women who were happy to have FWB sex, which to me means having a male friend they enjoy having sex with occasionally, without expecting or wanting it to lead to a relationship. Sleeping around with men they barely know is an entirely different thing to me.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

f buddy here...f buddy there..f buddy everywhere!

 

Big buzz word nowadays and I would like to see what most people think about it.

 

Are you playing yourself as a woman being a man's fbuddy?

Can a woman really engage in this type of relationship for a long time without catching feelings?

Do you put her mentally in a box which means she will ONLY be a piece of a/ss and nothing more?

Are we just adults and SHOULD BE able to handle this decision?

 

 

 

You are clearly confused. What you're doing is akin to chastizing only teenage girls who fall pregnant for things that most teenagers are doing, and most of whom never fall pregnant or father a child.

 

Women have always had such opportunities and taken such actions as a product of mere supply and demand.

 

Women speaking openly about doing so is a more recent phenomenon, but it is wrong to critique only those who admit to such dalliances for something that many more women are enjoying to their own advantage.

 

And y'know, why make it personal in terms of applying some stupid reputation to a woman just because she admitted frankly to having had a sex-only partner for some period of time. Women have the (female parts) so they get to call the shots, sexually.

[Woggle]

I have also noticed that women who are into casual sex also cheat way more often. That is because I believe it comes from the same place. They believe in beating men at our own game and that it will somehow empower them if they behave the way they think men do. If I wanted to date a man I would be gay and that also applies to women who's brains are a caricture of a male brain.

[2sunny]

I have also noticed that women who are into casual sex also cheat way more often. That is because I believe it comes from the same place. They believe in beating men at our own game and that it will somehow empower them if they behave the way they think men do. If I wanted to date a man I would be gay and that also applies to women who's brains are a caricture of a male brain.

 

i've never in my 50 years here cheated. i had an agreement for a time with a man that only involved sex... has nothing to do with cheating and everything to do with honesty.

 

it helped me to NOT make bad choices in men while i was getting used to being divorced.

 

now, i don't do it that way. i'm interested in the whole package... but at that time - it helped me by having that arrangement that worked for both of us.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

Another thing, how are men suppose to gain sexual experience if women are only to have sex for love? Who would they get experience from - each other?

 

All the trashbag, low-grade, hoes, of course. All those poor women with low self esteem who are willing and ready to be used like living blowup dolls, you know?

 

Just kidding, of course. Fairly evolved, or even just basic simple normal folks will be able to experiment sexually with one another in good health and spirits, if they so choose.

 

What would some men do without maintaining the ugly double standard? (Not ALL, or even most men, thank goodness).

[Woggle]

There might be exceptions such as yourself but women who cheat tend to use the same language that women who sleep around use. It is all about empowerment and beating men at their own game.

[on a learning curve]

I have also noticed that women who are into casual sex also cheat way more often. That is because I believe it comes from the same place. They believe in beating men at our own game and that it will somehow empower them if they behave the way they think men do. If I wanted to date a man I would be gay and that also applies to women who's brains are a caricture of a male brain.

 

I have read through this thread with interest. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the bolded statement? What is the "game?" Beating them, how?

 

Sincere question.

[Woggle]

I have read through this thread with interest. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the bolded statement? What is the "game?" Beating them, how?

 

Sincere question.

 

They think men are a bunch of sex obsessed monsters with no emotions and that by emulating these traits they empower themselves. Beating them means treating men the same way men have always treated them. They are bitter that the jerks they lusted over used and abused them so now all men have to pay.

 

Men are not monsters with no emotions but men who still know what it means to be a man are more practical with love. We assess whether a woman is worth the emotional investment or not and we take it from there. We have hearts but the head does the leading as it should.

[on a learning curve]

They think men are a bunch of sex obsessed monsters with no emotions and that by emulating these traits they empower themselves. Beating them means treating men the same way men have always treated them. They are bitter that the jerks they lusted over used and abused them so now all men have to pay.

 

Men are not monsters with no emotions but men who still know what it means to be a man are more practical with love. We assess whether a woman is worth the emotional investment or not and we take it from there. We have hearts but the head does the leading as it should.

 

Ok, so by "they" you mean women who enjoy NSA sex with a man/men? Can you explain how a woman would feel empowered by having sex with a man if she doesn't want to/doesn't desire him? What exactly is she getting out of that?

 

It concerns me that you think that women who desire NSA sex are bitter, used and abused women. That has not been my experience at all. I am curious as to how you have formed that opinion. I mean no disrespect, just curious.

 

I agree that men have emotions - of course they do. And, I am intrigued by your statement I have bolded above. That is a thought provoking comment, and I'd like to know how you have come to that conclusion.

 

This is unabashedly philosophical, but, how can you (general) assess a person's worth?

[bac]

I only lose respect for women who have f-buddies if:

 

a) They clearly show they're trying to get the f-buddy to grow into more.

 

Meaning they honest-to-God want this guy to be her boyfriend and even future husband, but he doesn't want her like that and/or doesn't want to commit...so she settles for banging him in the hopes he'll "come around".

 

Meanwhile, she gets into jealous fits whenever this guy does something with another woman. She acts "possessive" like he's her BF, even though he's not. That and she passes up many ideal boyfriend-potential men because she's desperately trying to get this one guy to change.

 

b) She uses her f-buddy as the "standard to top" and thus only wants a guy that will make her forget about her f-buddy.

 

 

I also notice many women in this situation tend to paint an unrealistic picture of it all. So they'll imagine the f-buddy as the ideal boyfriend (when even he isn't like this imaginary guy) and thus keep thinking there must be someone out there who fits this unrealistic standard she has set.

 

I think it's fine for men and women to engage in safe casual sex while single just as long as they don't get unrealistic about what they want in a mate and how they handle dating. See it as a temporary fix rather than a hope to push for.

 

The situation is strange to me. Perhaps the guys did not make it clear that they were FWBs. I would understand that they were afraid to be upfront because of fear to lose their f-buddies. Therefore, it is unfair to blame girls for getting attached, if guys are afraid to be direct and upfront. Perhaps, the guys expect girls to read their minds.

To summarize, you have lost respect for the girls because they were not able to read the men's minds.

But, you had respect for the guys who used girls who wanted a R as FWBs.

 

If a guy behaves as a true f-buddy, no girl would put him on a pedestal.

If a guy behaves openly and upfront as a true f-buddy, his chance to find a girl is very very limited.

[LiveWell]

I don't know where this ridiculous meme (that no one has the right to judge someone else) comes from.

 

 

It's fourth/fifth/sixth generation psychobabble that originated in the human potential movement of the 60's and 70's as well as from the therapy movement.

 

Obviously if a person is in therapy or in an encounter session, they need to feel "safe" to expose themselves to their therapist or other people in the encounter session without feeling like they will be subject to criticism, or "judgment," by the therapist or by the other members of the group. That however in no way supports the notion that people should not use their reasonable judgment capacity in living their lives, including actively judging other people's behaviors, as the meme-spouters would have it.

 

The people currently spouting this meme are the children or grandchildren of people who have been through every human potential program (EST, TM, AA, and so forth) there is, as well as therapy; or perhaps who have been educated by such persons, or otherwise indoctrinated; and the meme learned in other more appropriate contexts (therapy for example) has been diffused into a large part of broader society in a warped and garbled, out of context manner.

 

It's ironic esp. because it seems that the most "judgmental" sort of people are the very same ones who accuse others of being "too judgmental" when confronted by an unpleasant truth or simply an argument or facts that they are unable to rebut on the merits.

[Woggle]

I am not even judging these women. If they are happy with it then good but a man looking for a relationship has the right to use certain criteria to find a suitable mate. A woman that does not value love is not good relationship material.

[Woggle]

Ok, so by "they" you mean women who enjoy NSA sex with a man/men? Can you explain how a woman would feel empowered by having sex with a man if she doesn't want to/doesn't desire him? What exactly is she getting out of that?

 

It concerns me that you think that women who desire NSA sex are bitter, used and abused women. That has not been my experience at all. I am curious as to how you have formed that opinion. I mean no disrespect, just curious.

 

I agree that men have emotions - of course they do. And, I am intrigued by your statement I have bolded above. That is a thought provoking comment, and I'd like to know how you have come to that conclusion.

 

This is unabashedly philosophical, but, how can you (general) assess a person's worth?

 

In my experience who sleep around a lot are usually trying to get even with the patriarchy which in many cases is men in general. They want to feel sexual power over men and in many cases enjoy breaking men's hearts. This is why so many of them cheat on men and feel no remorse or guilt whatsoever. They are completely cold and indifferent to a man's heart. This tends to be the mentality of women who have a lot of partners in their past. All the tenderness and feminity has been stripped away.

 

What I mean is that men with a little self respect don't go into the world thinking with the wrong head or putting their emotions above their logic. A man should keep his eyes on the prize and when he finds a worthy woman to invite into that world he can do so. This works as opposed to chasing somebody who will do nothing but hurt you in the end because they are hot or you feel a great connection with them which is really just a lust high. Sadly many men are not this smart anymore.

[sweetjasmine]

If you were dating a guy who slept with 300 women before you... you would think "wow he is choosing me"... because that means he does well with women.

 

I want a woman who acts like a woman. What is wrong with that? If she sleeps with 200 guys it means she isn't picky... or that she has mental issues.

 

 

Actually, no. If I went on a date with a guy who slept with 300 women before me, I would think he isn't picky or that he has mental issues.

 

I would never knowingly get myself into a FWB situation, and I've never had a ONS or anything like that. It's not my style. I feel I'm only compatible with men who share that style and who aren't comfortable with no-strings attached flings. I wouldn't want to date a "man-slut." When it comes to serious partners, I'm very picky about that sort of thing, but I wouldn't think a man or a woman is garbage because they enjoy casual sex. If it works for them, fine. It doesn't work for me. That's all.

[Woggle]

For the record I feel the same about men who casually sleep with many partners. Players in general tend to hate women and female players are no different with their hatred of the opposite sex.

[2sunny]

There might be exceptions such as yourself but women who cheat tend to use the same language that women who sleep around use. It is all about empowerment and beating men at their own game.

 

you are describing any relationship that is out of balance. good balance in any healthy relationship is key!

 

when there is balance - it involves honesty, equally giving and receiving energy and trust. the energy seems effortless...

 

what you have described is not good balance. not everyone cheats. it is obvious when a relationship is out of balance... for a any reason or even a multitude of reasons. it usually involves one person doing more giving than receiving AND/OR one person doing all the receiving and not much giving.

 

make sense?

[on a learning curve]

In my experience who sleep around a lot are usually trying to get even with the patriarchy which in many cases is men in general. They want to feel sexual power over men and in many cases enjoy breaking men's hearts. This is why so many of them cheat on men and feel no remorse or guilt whatsoever. They are completely cold and indifferent to a man's heart. This tends to be the mentality of women who have a lot of partners in their past. All the tenderness and feminity has been stripped away.

 

What I mean is that men with a little self respect don't go into the world thinking with the wrong head or putting their emotions above their logic. A man should keep his eyes on the prize and when he finds a worthy woman to invite into that world he can do so. This works as opposed to chasing somebody who will do nothing but hurt you in the end because they are hot or you feel a great connection with them which is really just a lust high. Sadly many men are not this smart anymore.

 

I will have to think about this a bit more. It is getting late here.

 

I assume you are referring to Feminist rhetoric when you talk of the "Patriarchy". As a feminist, I can assure you that many of us have husbands and sons, whom we love dearly. It is not an issue of "getting even" - us feminists want an understanding between genders, not a war.

 

There may be women who enjoy breaking men's hearts, but that seems cold and calculated to me, and I'm uncertain as to the benefits of doing so. I'm not sure. Again, I will have to think on that a bit.

 

I remain unconvinced that a person can be deemed "unworthy" based on their past experiences. I'll think about that, too.

[Woggle]

I am not talking about feminism but rather a perversion of it.

[on a learning curve]

I don't know where this ridiculous meme (that no one has the right to judge someone else) comes from.

 

 

It's fourth/fifth/sixth generation psychobabble that originated in the human potential movement of the 60's and 70's as well as from the therapy movement.

 

Obviously if a person is in therapy or in an encounter session, they need to feel "safe" to expose themselves to their therapist or other people in the encounter session without feeling like they will be subject to criticism, or "judgment," by the therapist or by the other members of the group. That however in no way supports the notion that people should not use their reasonable judgment capacity in living their lives, including actively judging other people's behaviors, as the meme-spouters would have it.

 

The people currently spouting this meme are the children or grandchildren of people who have been through every human potential program (EST, TM, AA, and so forth) there is, as well as therapy; or perhaps who have been educated by such persons, or otherwise indoctrinated; and the meme learned in other more appropriate contexts (therapy for example) has been diffused into a large part of broader society in a warped and garbled, out of context manner.

 

It's ironic esp. because it seems that the most "judgmental" sort of people are the very same ones who accuse others of being "too judgmental" when confronted by an unpleasant truth or simply an argument or facts that they are unable to rebut on the merits.

 

And, your point is...?

 

Such is culture - memes are recycled, discarded etc...as culture evolves (or not, depending on how you look at it).

 

I agree though, that "judgement" is valuable. Uncontrolled hubris is always a bad thing.

[carhill]

Considering sex is generally a private thing, I tend to respect or not respect people for more public things, including how they treat me.

 

I can openly state I'd have issues with a woman who has such a different viewpoint of sex, intimacy and relationships from myself, and likely would consider her incompatible.

 

I presume this would not distress her in the least.

 

I'll leave it to others to determine what is low-grade or not. I prefer to seek the positive, compatible and beneficial things and people in life.

 

I have had relationships with women and was married to woman with high numbers of sexual partners, though no clue if or how many of those were 'fwb', so I think I'll try something else for awhile. There is a common thread which as run through those relationships and it was incompatibility at the elemental emotional levels.

 

I have no interest in fwb, f*ck-buddy, or any other sort of casual or non-relationship form of sexual relations. I have said 'no' to women who want casual sex, both married women and single women. I'm sure some other guy said yes, so they got what they wanted. This gives me peace. Thanks for asking