About remorse

[wheelwright]

Sociopaths cant feel remorse...

 

...

 

Most people here have the empathy to recognise that I am working through difficult stuff.

 

Sociopaths don't care about the impact their comments have on hurt individuals.

 

Luckily, I am not so easily hurt by sociopaths.

[jennie-jennie]

Not about making the past untrue by way of regret.

 

Exactly.

 

I do feel remorse on occasion. I feel remorse for being too bold and being in contact with my MM in my at-the-time-still SO's apartment. My SO was aware that I was in two parallel relationships, so I wasn't being unfaithful, but I hurt my SO by overtly being in contact with my MM. I thought I would get away with it without my SO noticing, but I didn't, and I regret and have remorse for hurting him like that. It was disrespectful of me.

 

I have since always been careful to keep a low profile of my relationship with MM, so as not to hurt my now exSO yet more.

 

So while I do not regret my relationship with my MM, I regret and feel remorse for not making sure I did not hurt my SO.

[wheelwright]

This is not pain that you are causing. Cheating on somebody is pain you directly caused and the fact that you don't have any remorse over that says a lot.

 

' no remorse' is a bit over the top for the way I state my case, me thinks.

 

Sometimes these discussions come down to whether people buy simplicity over complexity.

 

Lets say, that in my case, I am happy enough to say there is enough complexity to say I don't feel I wish I hadn't done it, while I am sorry for the painful consequences for my H. And xMOM. And his W and kids.

 

It was part of my life.

 

There are a couple of things in my own history I truly regret, so I know what it feels like.

 

This just isn't one of them.

 

Interestingly, those things I regret I knew were wrong (deep inside) when I did them, whereas this A felt right to me at the time. Perhaps this is the difference?

 

Maybe that's an important thing to consider here?

[debby]

To me, regret without remorse is very much like the thief who isn't the least bit sorry he stole, but is very, very sorry he got caught.

[wheelwright]

To me, regret without remorse is very much like the thief who isn't the least bit sorry he stole, but is very, very sorry he got caught.

 

 

I was wondering more about remorse without regret?

 

Not sorry he stole (he did it for good if selfish reasons).

 

Sorry others have been made to pay for it.

[LiveWell]

If a person doesn't know what remorse is by the time they're an adult, they'll never know, unless they have some sort of epiphany. You know, like Saul on the road to Damascus.

 

I don't think very much is accomplished by a discussion of the concept of "remorse" as if it is some sort of abstraction. Those who have experienced it and know it "get" it. Those that haven't, don't. And most likely, won't.

[wheelwright]

I wasnt calling you a sociopath... although you may be one from the tone of your posts.

 

Nor do they regret causing pain to the people they cheat on and hurt.

 

You wouldnt be would you? Could you even be?

 

When was the last time you used somebody for your own gain and felt bad about it simply because you knew it was a one sided transaction?

 

When was the last time you did?

 

Fair's fair.

 

No I am not like that. I regret the pain.

 

I only know what I know.

 

And I have not gone down the road of infidelity cos it felt bad.

 

And I have when it felt right.

]

It felt right at the time to me.

[Silly_Girl]

Wheelwright. I firmly believe in remorse without regret. I had a conversation today about an incident at my son's school; first of it's kind for us. Small kid totally, deliberately picked a fight by kicking my son from behind without warning. Son's auto-reflex, by virtue of their relative sizes meant the wee kid got hurt. My son was in tears that a smaller new boy was hurt, was worried it would impact on him settling in at his new school etc, but my son's reaction was natural and he would do the self-same thing again in the same circ's.

 

Not a helpful comparison perhaps. But I was chatting to my bf bringing him up to speed with what happened and it made me think of you!!

[wheelwright]

Wheelwright. I firmly believe in remorse without regret. I had a conversation today about an incident at my son's school; first of it's kind for us. Small kid totally, deliberately picked a fight by kicking my son from behind without warning. Son's auto-reflex, by virtue of their relative sizes meant the wee kid got hurt. My son was in tears that a smaller new boy was hurt, was worried it would impact on him settling in at his new school etc, but my son's reaction was natural and he would do the self-same thing again in the same circ's.

 

Not a helpful comparison perhaps. But I was chatting to my bf bringing him up to speed with what happened and it made me think of you!!

 

Not sure what this comparison means SG.

 

Perhaps I am naive or childish?

 

Well, I don't like how I behaved. But I am me. On my lonely platform. And I want my voice to be heard. And I feel that the voice I want to listen to at the end isn't just be faithful.

 

There are more questions for me. More problems.

[FryFish]

Not sure what this comparison means SG.

She was illustrating what remorse is.

 

Perhaps I am naive or childish?

No, you are the opposite of the child in the scenario. Her child felt bad that he was the reason another kid was in pain.

 

Well, I don't like how I behaved.

You regret it, but you dont feel remorse for the pain you caused.

 

But I am me. On my lonely platform. And I want my voice to be heard. And I feel that the voice I want to listen to at the end isn't just be faithful.

translation: You want to do what you want to do despite what it might do to other people.

[Silly_Girl]

Not sure what this comparison means SG.

 

Perhaps I am naive or childish?

 

Well, I don't like how I behaved. But I am me. On my lonely platform. And I want my voice to be heard. And I feel that the voice I want to listen to at the end isn't just be faithful.

 

There are more questions for me. More problems.

 

It was just that, on a totally different level, I was dealing with remorse vs regret. My son couldn't hand on heart say he wouldn't retaliate again, in the same situation and so didn't necessarily regret swinging round as he did, what ate at him was the impact of his actions, that he'd caused another lad to feel fear and pain. Sorry if it didn't work for you WW!

[jthorne]

Not sure what this comparison means SG.

 

Perhaps I am naive or childish?

 

Well, I don't like how I behaved. But I am me. On my lonely platform. And I want my voice to be heard. And I feel that the voice I want to listen to at the end isn't just be faithful.

 

There are more questions for me. More problems.

 

It was just that, on a totally different level, I was dealing with remorse vs regret. My son couldn't hand on heart say he wouldn't retaliate again, in the same situation and so didn't necessarily regret swinging round as he did, what ate at him was the impact of his actions, that he'd caused another lad to feel fear and pain. Sorry if it didn't work for you WW!

Schoolyard retaliation is vastly different than cheating on your spouse, even though it looks here like both have remorse but not regret.

 

I'd say here (especially the bolded) is where integrity comes in. A person with integrity does not cheat. They discuss the problems in the marriage, and if those can't be resolved, they leave the marriage before entering a relationship with someone else. Something that I have been discussing privately with someone else is how does one get the integrity back that they lost by having an affair? I'm wondering if in your case, WW, if the integrity matter now surrounds staying in a so-so marriage out of whatever sense of duty you have, instead of ending it.

[Silly_Girl]

Schoolyard retaliation is vastly different than cheating on your spouse, even though it looks here like both have remorse but not regret.

 

Absolutely, and I said so myself. But I had never before had cause to see the disconnect between one and the other. They usually are REFERRED TO as though they go hand in hand. But interestingly, they don't.

[knuckles]

Honestly something weird happened to be when I cheated on my boyfriend last month. I never had sex with the other guy but it was still a cheat. Strangely I don't really feel remorse about it and that's annoying me.

[wheelwright]

Wheelwright. I firmly believe in remorse without regret. I had a conversation today about an incident at my son's school; first of it's kind for us. Small kid totally, deliberately picked a fight by kicking my son from behind without warning. Son's auto-reflex, by virtue of their relative sizes meant the wee kid got hurt. My son was in tears that a smaller new boy was hurt, was worried it would impact on him settling in at his new school etc, but my son's reaction was natural and he would do the self-same thing again in the same circ's.

 

Not a helpful comparison perhaps. But I was chatting to my bf bringing him up to speed with what happened and it made me think of you!!

 

I have tried to think about how this might apply. I am glad you sent a story that made you think of this thread.

 

I like stories.

 

What your post makes me think is that I hate to see people hurt - your son and the other boy too!

 

And I undestand that what you say means the circumstances led to the problem - not the failings of the people. Sometimes it all happens so quickly.

[wheelwright]

Schoolyard retaliation is vastly different than cheating on your spouse, even though it looks here like both have remorse but not regret.

 

I'd say here (especially the bolded) is where integrity comes in. A person with integrity does not cheat. They discuss the problems in the marriage, and if those can't be resolved, they leave the marriage before entering a relationship with someone else. Something that I have been discussing privately with someone else is how does one get the integrity back that they lost by having an affair? I'm wondering if in your case, WW, if the integrity matter now surrounds staying in a so-so marriage out of whatever sense of duty you have, instead of ending it.

 

I disagree that cheating means you lose your integrity. It depends.

 

And I like the bit after bolded - because I think the main driving part of me will only get back her integrity if I leave my M.

 

I think you have nailed what is bothering me so much in a way.

 

I care for my H deeply, but I should leave.

 

I have no independant money and I have kids.

 

I have friends and family.

 

And my H is a great bloke in so many ways I cannot imagine a better one. But that is objective.

 

And it seems my rationality in this matter cannot override the need to move on.

[Silly_Girl]

I disagree that cheating means you lose your integrity. It depends.

 

And I like the bit after bolded - because I think the main driving part of me will only get back her integrity if I leave my M.

 

I think you have nailed what is bothering me so much in a way.

 

I care for my H deeply, but I should leave.

 

I have no independant money and I have kids.

 

I have friends and family.

 

And my H is a great bloke in so many ways I cannot imagine a better one. But that is objective.

 

And it seems my rationality in this matter cannot override the need to move on.

 

Or, your rationality is exactly WHY you should leave?

[wheelwright]

If a person doesn't know what remorse is by the time they're an adult, they'll never know, unless they have some sort of epiphany. You know, like Saul on the road to Damascus.

 

I don't think very much is accomplished by a discussion of the concept of "remorse" as if it is some sort of abstraction. Those who have experienced it and know it "get" it. Those that haven't, don't. And most likely, won't.

 

I honestly think this is possibly a bit higher than others in spirit?

 

I think we are here to help and teach. If you think certain people have fallen by the wayside, why do you comment?

 

I always find people who question their own conduct and behaviour trustworthy sources of ethical guidance.

 

Those who say they already know, and pity those who have failed to reach a pious righteousness, are often suspect in scriptures - and for me IRL.

 

Just saying.

[ladydesigner]

Wheelwright I understand what you have been saying. I also do not feel deep remorse for my A, but then my A has also not been disclosed so that may play into a lot of this. Do I regret the A, you betcha. If I could take back the A and get my integrity back rather than act in revenge I would do it in a second. I wish I would have not acted so hastily after discovering my H's infidelities and dealt with him head on in MC. I think we would have a stronger M, but I also am not sure I would have been able to feel feelings of forgiveness without "leveling the playing field."

[wheelwright]

Wheelwright I understand what you have been saying. I also do not feel deep remorse for my A, but then my A has also not been disclosed so that may play into a lot of this. Do I regret the A, you betcha. If I could take back the A and get my integrity back rather than act in revenge I would do it in a second. I wish I would have not acted so hastily after discovering my H's infidelities and dealt with him head on in MC. I think we would have a stronger M, but I also am not sure I would have been able to feel feelings of forgiveness without "leveling the playing field."

 

I cannot imagine regret without remorse except in a playful way.

 

However i see the discussion as it bends towards issues of integrity being relevant to me.

 

Honestly, my deeper feelings about your situation make me think you shouldn't feel bad.

 

I don't feel when we fall in love and act on it (even in cheating) is a wholly bad act.

 

And you must have wanted the love even if it started as revenge.

 

I have come some kind of full circle, because once again I feel that if you truly love, and you are truly lost also as cheaters are, what you do is painful but not wrong.

 

And everyone has to reap the painful 'rewards' of this love, that was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also made a whole lot of people wake up.

 

Because if the reason for it wasn't true love, then the reason above must have been it.

 

Else the reason for it is for pious people to despise sinners.

 

And there's no sanctity in that.

[ladydesigner]

I cannot imagine regret without remorse except in a playful way.

 

However i see the discussion as it bends towards issues of integrity being relevant to me.

 

Honestly, my deeper feelings about your situation make me think you shouldn't feel bad.

 

I don't feel when we fall in love and act on it (even in cheating) is a wholly bad act.

 

And you must have wanted the love even if it started as revenge.

 

I have come some kind of full circle, because once again I feel that if you truly love, and you are truly lost also as cheaters are, what you do is painful but not wrong.

 

And everyone has to reap the painful 'rewards' of this love, that was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also made a whole lot of people wake up.

 

Because if the reason for it wasn't true love, then the reason above must have been it.

 

Else the reason for it is for pious people to despise sinners.

 

And there's no sanctity in that.

 

Yes you are right WW. I did want the love. I had felt so unloved for a long time. My EA began before I discovered my H's infidelity, but I did not recognize it as an EA until well after the fact. Once I discovered my H's infidelity I felt I had a green light to pursue the A. I did end up falling in love with my XAP as I believe he did as well and neither of us thought we would fall for the other so deeply.

 

I also agree with you on this

I don't feel when we fall in love and act on it (even in cheating) is a wholly bad act.

 

I often wonder if my H fell in love with his OW. It doesn't seem that way, but I can't imagine otherwise. Love is confusing I often wonder if people are meant to be monogamous.