moimeme Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 My thing is that if you know it hurts someone why continue? My thing is that you choose to let things hurt you or not so why not choose a mindset that prevents you from being hurt? One story for you. There was a man who was put in prison who later became an author. He told a tale of being very angry all the time while in prison. He would walk down the halls, and the other prisoners would call him names, because that's what they do to each other, and he'd get FURIOUS. One day, he was walking down the hall as usual and one guy called him an SOB. As he tells the tale: (maybe not exact words but close) "I looked at him, realized that I was NOT an SOB, and decided he was just wrong. I never again got mad when someone called me a name". He could have gone on letting the behaviour of others get to him. Instead, he recast his perception of what those guys were doing and decided it would just not bother him anymore. Your husband is not cheating on you. He loves you. He is with you. So your feelings are not based on any real situation - in which case you will feel a lot better if you change your thinking. This is what Ellis says. Now, if your husband was actually cheating, of course you should be hurt and angry. The example you gave about an abuser is a whole other issue because abuse is real but your fears about porn are based on something which does not exist because your husband is not cheating - it is you he loves and desires. Same goes to you, Errol. Sometimes, people get bent out of shape because of their own issues - look at Thinkalot and her problems. She, too, is hurt, but the hurt is caused by her own thinking, and she's working on that. We have to take responsibility for our part in our problems and not foist them all on the other person. BTW, the reason I tell that tale of the convict is because it was a great revelation for me and helped me change my own thinking. I'm not suggesting someone do what I say but not what I do. I did it, and I'm a lot happier for having done it which is why I suggest it as a solution for this problem.
jester Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 One person's deal breaker may seem silly to someone else, but that doesn't mean it is not as serious and valid as any other deal breaker. Yes, yes and yes. That's the truth. Otherwise, the advice-giver impliedly discounts or denigrates that which the individual holds to be so sacred as to be a deal-breaker. It's an individual judgment , based on history, experience, belief system, whether conduct rises to the level of a deal breaker.
Author P1xie Posted March 8, 2004 Author Posted March 8, 2004 Again I'm put in the position that because you don't agree with my views that I am wrong. Me and my boyfriend have different views on Porn. Neither of us are wrong we both are intitled to have our opinions. We do however have the same views when it comes to trust, lying, respect and trying not to hurt eachother. For a relationship to work you sometimes have to make sacrifices and or compromises. As Errol says bend a little. I do for him and it's not too much to ask for him to do the same.
moimeme Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 that because you don't agree with my views that I am wrong Clearly, I have utterly failed to make my point since that is all you hear. I give up.
Author P1xie Posted March 8, 2004 Author Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme My thing is that if you know it hurts someone why continue? My thing is that you choose to let things hurt you or not so why not choose a mindset that prevents you from being hurt? This issue for me is not a mindset it's a moral issue. That is why it's not easy for me to look away and pretend it's ok.
jester Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 Interesting, one person's"mindset" is another person's "moral beliefs." Should another person's moral beliefs, beliefs that are not shared by the majority of "enlightened" opinion holders, be relegated to mere mindset, or worse, the pathological. Do we categorize as "moral" those beliefs that the majority of "elightened" opinion holders share and condign to malleable mindset , or worse, those beliefs that do not get the majority's seal of approval? Is this happening in LoveShack's great porn debate?
Author P1xie Posted March 8, 2004 Author Posted March 8, 2004 I'm just trying emphasize that this is not something I can't just think away or overcome like it is nothing. The majority here find it acceptable. I do not and advising me to change my mindset is not going to change the fact. I have not tried to change anyone's mindset here and would never accused anyone of being morally wrong, I've just stated my views and opinions. moimeme is right to give up, because it is nearly impossible to change someone's moral beliefs. I will not change my view one this issue just because I am the minority.
Errol Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Same goes to you, Errol. Sometimes, people get bent out of shape because of their own issues ! Since when is someone's personal morality or beliefs an issue? Not everyone in the world loves porn or sees it as acceptable. I don't. I'm not pure and I've looked and I've seen someone I love hurt by it so I stopped. Why is everyong telling the people who are hurt by their bf's use of porn to get over it? People who don't hurt have no feelings. Have none of you ever cried or been hurt by the actions of someone you love? Its not so easy to tell yourself not to hurt when your heart feels like its puddled down in your ankles because someone has lied to you or broken a promise and you no longer trust them. Losing trust in someone you love hurts. If its so easy to turn off the hurt then places like LS wouldn't need to exist - we could all go merrily along not feeling anything but what we choose to feel, and other people's actions and choices would have no impact on us. There is a HUGE difference in being hurt physically and emotionally. There is no tube of neosporin and bandaids for emotional hurts. If someone is hurt by something, we can't tell them they are not hurt just because we don't see any blood---or feel the way they feel. What hurts me won't hurt others and vice versa. I wouldn't get a divorce if my spouse gained 200 pounds - but some people would. Does that make them shallow and me noble? No, not at all. It just means we have a different list of priorities and emotions and morals and interpretaions of what our relationships mean to each other. Changing or expanding our own philosophy on life is great -- I've had some eye openers too in my life that helped me alter how I look at something. However, my underlying morality did not change. The list of Right and Wrong is not the same for everyone. Doesn't seeing how many people just posting on this board who are hurt by their love's use of porn make anyone think "gee, she [insert your gf/wife's name here] said it hurt her that I use porn and I brushed her off. That must have hurt her even more. I need to think about my so-called 'need' to have porn in my life and whether I want to and can give it up for the love of my gf." I don't see why it has to be analyzed any further than that.
dyermaker Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie My thing is that if you know it hurts someone why continue? Once again, YOU choose how to react with what you discover. Your choice is pain, are you honestly taking no responsibility for your emotions? I also want to say the reason I stayed with my boyfriend is not because he said he was going to give up porn it was because we talked and he made a honest effort to understand my feelings. Once again, it was NOT right of him to lie. I do notice that not one guy here will honestly answer if they would leave their girls on this issue. You see what you want to. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=178847#post178847 You have to realize that if you don't approve of his porn use--either change your mindset, or leave. You cannot change another person, change is a choice. It's not about respect, it's not about love, it's not about pain. Change your mindset, not his behavior, that's all you have control over. Originally posted by P1xie Again I'm put in the position that because you don't agree with my views that I am wrong. Realize that this is not an open-ended discussion, you came to us asking for help. Originally posted by P1xie This issue for me is not a mindset it's a moral issue. That is why it's not easy for me to look away and pretend it's ok. No adult has any business correcting personal moral choices of any other adult. Originally posted by P1xie advising me to change my mindset is not going to change the fact. Fact has no weight in matters of opinion. You have two lucid choices. Change yourself, or try (in vain) to change him. Empirically, I've discovered that BOTH are difficult, but only one actually works. I will not change my view one this issue just because I am the minority. Then why the hell are you here? You won't change your view, you just want to change him. Research hypnosis, or go Lorena Bobbit on him. Originally posted by Errol Have none of you ever cried or been hurt by the actions of someone you love? Its not so easy to tell yourself not to hurt when your heart feels like its puddled down in your ankles because someone has lied to you or broken a promise and you no longer trust them. Errol, no one implied it was easy. It's just attainable. If she was looking for solace, there's plenty of posters who could comiserate with her, but she's looking to CHANGE his behavior, something that is impossible. You CANNOT change the behavior of another person. Thus, at the risk of sounding callous, we offered her practical advice, changing her perception of it.
Author P1xie Posted March 9, 2004 Author Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Once again, YOU choose how to react with what you discover. Your choice is pain, are you honestly taking no responsibility for your emotions? And the person chose on the previous post about his girl looking at other guys also chose pain and is responsible for his emotions. Just because you agree to porn does not make my pain of any less significance. Once again, it was NOT right of him to lie. I have said this was the major cause of the pain. You see what you want to. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=178847#post178847 How kind of you to compare a person emotional pain to a papercut just because you believe porn it ok. You have to realize that if you don't approve of his porn use--either change your mindset, or leave. You said it yourself... No adult has any business correcting personal moral choices of any other adult. Then why are you drastically trying to get me to change my view and to agree? If you agreed with my view you would have no problem say that he needs to change his behavior. His behavior should consist of not hurting me. It does not have to be porn it could be anything that he knows hurts my feelings. We don't go around hurting people at least I don't. If I know something hurts him I don't do it. You cannot change another person, change is a choice. It's not about respect, it's not about love, it's not about pain. Change your mindset, not his behavior, that's all you have control over. Then only the behaviors such as checking out other guys or smoking or whatever you may feel is justifiable to change because you don't feel is right warrants someone to change their behavior? Realize that this is not an open-ended discussion, you came to us asking for help. And I have looked at all sides and agruments and my views have not changed. That is my choice. I came here with a open mind. I'm sorry if you guys weren't convincing enough for me to change my mindset. Then why the hell are you here? You won't change your view, you just want to change him. Research hypnosis, or go Lorena Bobbit on him. I will always remember this sound advice, it makes me very thankful to have come here. Errol, no one implied it was easy. It's just attainable. If she was looking for solace, there's plenty of posters who could comiserate with her, but she's looking to CHANGE his behavior, something that is impossible. You CANNOT change the behavior of another person. Thus, at the risk of sounding callous, we offered her practical advice, changing her perception of it. A behavior can be changed a person's morals and upbringing are a lot harder to change than a simple behavior. No I'm not going to look at porn today. For now on when I'm with my boyfriend I'm not going to check out other guys. My husband does not want me to smoke, I'm going to quit. My boyfriend wants me not to overeat...etc. These too are behaviors and habits that can be overcome. The issue here is simple you have no issue with porn and feel that everyone else should feel the same. That is great I've never tried to convince anyone here to change their views. But if you had a issue with it your posts would be like in the "My girlfriend checks out other guys". His pain is real, her behaviors need to be change. My pain is not and because you don't agree that porn is wrong he does not need to change his behavior.
dyermaker Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 Just because you agree to porn does not make my pain of any less significance. No one said that your pain wasn't significant, only that it wasn't beyond your control. How kind of you to compare a person emotional pain to a papercut just because you believe porn it ok. How lame of you to intentionally misinterpret what I said. The papercut comparison was that porn (at least magazine porn) is made out of paper, so unless you cut your hand on the paper, porn didn't actually CAUSE the pain. Then why are you drastically trying to get me to change my view and to agree? Because you came here asking for help. No one can help you CHANGE his behavior without his consent. I came here with a open mind. I'm sorry if you guys weren't convincing enough for me to change my mindset. Uhm, we're sorry too? A behavior can be changed [color=red]Only one's OWN behavior can be changed. No one can change the behavior of another person. [/color]
Author P1xie Posted March 9, 2004 Author Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker How lame of you to intentionally misinterpret what I said. The papercut comparison was that porn (at least magazine porn) is made out of paper, so unless you cut your hand on the paper, porn didn't actually CAUSE the pain. lol I'm terribly sorry dryermaker. That was no way intentional...I guess I'm a little on the defense here. I'm only laughing because I never would of thought of the connection.
HokeyReligions Posted March 9, 2004 Posted March 9, 2004 I think everyone knows that we can't change someone else. However, we can influence others to make changes and we can be influenced by others to change ourselves. It can be subtle or straight-forward. Asking your bf to stop viewing porn because it hurts and is an offense to personal morality is not trying to change someone, it is asking them to make a change for you. A subtle difference but an important one, I think. He said he would, but didn't. She is still with him so his other traits and priorities must be pretty strong and in line with hers or she would have left him. It sounds like she is trying to work on the issue and is searching for something that will help her reconcile his use of porn to her own morality and/or help her to have more influence with him so that he will choose to change his behavior. P1xie, its easy to get on the defensive but you need to concentrate on something. Just because people get on your case or do not see your POV does not mean that you are wrong about anything. If porn is wrong for you then don't expect anyone to be able to change your mind, or say something so profound that you will immediately feel differently about porn. Countering everything everyone says to you is counterproductive and only serves to upset you and others. I didn't see anyone saying that you are wrong. What I see people saying is that your morality or feelings are wrong for them and the way you have reacted would not be their choice of reaction in the same situation. Feelings are not wrong - feelings simply are. 'Wrong' should never be at the end of a sentence. If you ever see a '.' following the word 'wrong' then you know the sentence is flawed. Porn is wrong FOR YOU. Porn is fine FOR [Name]. There is no concrete line here, it's not as simple as that.
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