Update: Not Dating American Women Anymore

[Woggle]

In theory yes this is good but most of the time it just regresses into a woman telling a man how useless and disposable he is to her. Men hate feeling disposable.

[aerogurl87]

One thing that I realized while reading this thread is that American couples, more than others, seem to have confusion over their individual roles in a relationship. I think that becomes a huge problem in American marriages. Men and women end up fighting for control and leverage in a relationship. It gets exhausting.

 

That's true I will admit. I noticed this in my ex best friend's relationship. She was of the mind that she wanted to be "independent" so when she found herself jobless instead of appreciating her boyfriend paying all the bills for her till she found a job she sulked about him wanting her to cook dinner for them and help clean up while he was at work. She wanted to be in control of the relationship and felt that those duties demeaned her by making her like a housewife which she thinks to be the worst position a woman can find herself in. Probably another reason her and I are no longer friends.

[Allisha]

What is initially attractive is not what always makes a good partner. You have to dig deeper.

 

Independence is good but some women have this idea that any romantic connection with a man somehow destroys their independence and it become a big power struggle.

 

Yeah, but I don't think this is exclusive to any one culture. I think most people would like to be independant.

[GooseChaser]

In theory yes this is good but most of the time it just regresses into a woman telling a man how useless and disposable he is to her. Men hate feeling disposable.

That sounds like an unhealthy and unhappy relationship there. If it got to that point, the two should probably consider going separate ways.

[tami-chan]

Nope I was just summarizing what some other posters brought up when it came to motives. I'm naturally a big giver in relationships. I give and give to my boyfriend and love it.

 

so you are motivated to give because it makes you happy to see your bf happy....it couldn't be because you want him to see you in a good light and thus decide you are a keeper, no?

[aerogurl87]

so you are motivated to give because it makes you happy to see your bf happy....it couldn't be because you want him to see you in a good light and thus decide you are a keeper, no?

 

No I'm not out to impress anyone and my boyfriend knows it. That's not my personality. When we first got together I didn't do anything to impress him, he just liked me for me and I liked him for him and here we are. I give to my boyfriend because I love him and I want him to be happy and because his happiness is so intertwined with my own now, him being happy makes me happy.

[tami-chan]

Education, confidence, independence, ambition, search for greater equality with men in society, diversity... to list a few. It's okay if you disagree with a few, but these are my opinions.

 

LOL...many non-Americans have all those AND more....you need to travel more...or at least read more books.

[GooseChaser]

LOL...many non-Americans have all those AND more....you need to travel more...or at least read more books.

The question wasn't what good qualities ONLY American women have, but what good qualities that American women emphasize and place importance in. My answer stands.

[Woggle]

That sounds like an unhealthy and unhappy relationship there. If it got to that point, the two should probably consider going separate ways.

 

It is unhealthy and unhappy but women talk about independence this is the picture many men get.

[tami-chan]

No I'm not out to impress anyone and my boyfriend knows it. That's not my personality. When we first got together I didn't do anything to impress him, he just liked me for me and I liked him for him and here we are. I give to my boyfriend because I love him and I want him to be happy and because his happiness is so intertwined with my own now, him being happy makes me happy.

 

Do you realize now how offensive the question of "motive" is? It puts you in a defensive mode.

[GooseChaser]

It is unhealthy and unhappy but women talk about independence this is the picture many men get.

Why or how do you think it gets to that point? Maybe part of that is the woman's insecurity, so she has to put down her partner? Quite a sad turn of events, anyway.

[tami-chan]

The question wasn't what good qualities ONLY American women have, but what good qualities that American women emphasize and place importance in. My answer stands.

 

Many non-American women "emphasize and place importance" on those same things and more.... My remark stands: travel or read more.

[aerogurl87]

Do you realize now how offensive the question of "motive" is? It puts you in a defensive mode.

 

I was just summarizing what other posters said, did you miss that part of my previous post? I know it makes people defensive, but that's what others were basically asking. What were the motives for her actions.

[GooseChaser]

Many non-American women "emphasize and place importance" on those same things and more.... My remark stands: travel or read more.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I never said that non-American women didn't also have those traits. I just said American women do, and put importance in them. I don't know what answer I could give of qualities that only American women have, but admittedly, I haven't travelled much. I am just 21. Don't hurt me.

[Woggle]

Why or how do you think it gets to that point? Maybe part of that is the woman's insecurity, so she has to put down her partner? Quite a sad turn of events, anyway.

 

Many of these independent types are very insecure. I had a casual relationship with a woman who flat out said that men are only good for sperm and when women learn how to make it on their own she would be completely fine with lining us all against a big wall and shooting us. She needed a man for nothing yet she fell head over heels in love with me because I was the only man who didn't fall in love with her. She needed that ego validation.

[GooseChaser]

Many non-American women "emphasize and place importance" on those same things and more.... My remark stands: travel or read more.

By the way, I do plan to study or travel abroad someday. I would like that, when it is feasible and I've learned a few more languages.

[classof2014]

Ok, so I definitely agree with the OP, and yes MANY American women are not only good, but great. But many are bad also, and as someone that went through teenage years (though my region SoCal may be a factor), the dating scene isn't getting any better to say the least. Even though lots of american women are good, the problem is that these girls tend to be marginalized. Women in this country are told they are better then men BECAUSE they are women. For example, many internet sites and even some respectable newspapers have said that men are now inferior to women. They site the education gap. However, they don't tell the whole story. Minority Women are doing way better than minority men but among whites its still about 55/45 and about 50/50 for asians. 55/45 is hardly a huge gap. However, these articles are catered to white women mostly. The courts always favor women in divorce and this creates a superiority complex.

 

On a personal note, I've done better with Asian women (no experience with Philippines though) not because they were submissive and in fact none of them were what you would call future housewife material. In fact, some were tough as nails. BUT, they had one major difference. They appreciated you for what you did and didn't take you for granted. I could talk with them, they would help me out, I would help them, etc. They also didn't hold grudges against you for everything you did wrong. Since celebrities have been brought into this and celebrities do reflect a subset of the beat of our culture. I want to bring an example related to the asian vs. american theme. In China, Ziyi Zhang (crouching tiger hidden dragon, house of flying daggers) I hear is considered basically a gold digger, a liar, etc. Now, sure she married a rich dude (though he's only 11 years older and not really ugly), apparently withheld money from a charity group or something, and seems full of herself.Note: tami or any other asians on this board, please correct the following if Im wrong. In China, most people don't like her, like we don't like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Kim kardashian, etc. But, now let's compare. all three of the American girls I mentioned have no talent at all. All three are constantly getting away with every type of bad behavior. Ziyi Zhang married a guy 11 years older than her and possibly committed fraud (which all 3 american girls probably do everyday in some way). Women in other countries are held to a higher standard IMO. Hear they are put on a pedestal BECAUSE they are women. However, men put them on that pedastal often.

[tami-chan]

No. Nice strawman though. I said perhaps she is the type to overextend herself in order to be liked - and those types of folks often feel compelled to do so because of low self-esteem issues (ie. not seeing their own intrinsic value without their ultra helpful persona). People like that are not exactly rare and some of her behaviors could easily fit the pattern so it was a distinct possibility... So why take offensive to someone stating it? Are we really children here that need protection from the horrors of human psychology because it's not all sunshine and unicorn farts?

 

Oh? and this is not speculating in the guise of "wondering"? please..you found it necessary to make a negative spin to an act that is positive.

 

You have nothing more than good ol' speculation about the motivations of this woman as do we all although I strongly doubt unless she was a scheming, evil witch she would be doing this stuff for the OP unless she really does like him and I really do wish for all the best for the OP in this relationship.

 

Ah..exactly...and you felt the need to put a negative spin to it. Projecting, much?

 

 

I would do it for a close family member, child or someone I was in a serious relationship with but not someone I've known for a month... It's really a bit much cultural lovers of cooking or not.

 

and that is YOU..be happy for others who are not bogged down by numbers .

[tami-chan]

I was just summarizing what other posters said, did you miss that part of my previous post? I know it makes people defensive, but that's what others were basically asking. What were the motives for her actions.

 

Did not miss your claim that you were just summarizing other people's posts(did you think they did not articulate their points well?). However, did you not also say the following below?

 

you have to still look at the motive for it. Was she doing it because she cared or because she really wanted him to like her? .... still doesn't answer the question of was it done from the heart or was it done begrudgingly because she felt it's what was expected of her.

 

And I turned the table around and questioned your motive for "giving and giving" to your BF and you got defensive. FWIW, I do not care what your motives are for treating your BF well...if you are happy, that's good enough for me-not that it matters what I feel...!

[aerogurl87]

Did not miss your claim that you were just summarizing other people's posts(did you think they did not articulate their points well?). However, did you not also say the following below?

 

 

 

And I turned the table around and questioned your motive for "giving and giving" to your BF and you got defensive. FWIW, I do not care what your motives are for treating your BF well...if you are happy, that's good enough for me-not that it matters what I feel...!

 

Yes I did say that when I said it was a valid question and those were my reasons as to why the question was valid.

[tami-chan]

Yes I did say that when I said it was a valid question and those were my reasons as to why the question was valid.

 

Exactly. You were questioning the motive and got defensive when YOUR motives were questioned. Case closed.

[aerogurl87]

Exactly. You were questioning the motive and got defensive when YOUR motives were questioned. Case closed.

 

I didn't get defensive, I just answered your questions and gave the reasoning for my answer.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Education, confidence, independence, ambition, search for greater equality with men in society, diversity... to list a few. It's okay if you disagree with a few, but these are my opinions.

 

The most important thing are the traits you DIDNT list.

 

Ambition is not the same as Hard working.

 

Education is not as important as Wisdom

 

Independent is not the same as Taking Care of Yourself.

 

Fighting for Equality creates an Adversarial Atmosphere. I want a relationship not a battle.

 

The bottom line is that when pressed to come up with traits we value in American women... the only message we really put through to girls is this.

 

"Do whatever it takes to look Pretty... that is where your value lies, and Do whatever you feel is required to make yourself happy."

 

 

Surely by refusing to date ANY American woman, he's implying they are all bad and not worth his time to date? And if he knows there are exceptions in his thinking, surely he should remain open to dating American women?

I totally get what he's saying in some respects. I really do. There are some vile, malicious and evil people out there. But there are those sorts of people in all cultures, too.

 

Well.... just comparing the dating experience so far. I can't speak regarding all nationalities, but it seems to be less game playing.

 

I also get the sense American women feel putting in lots of effort is somehow demeaning.

 

Confidence is attractive, to a lot of people

Independance is vital. Would you like to be in a co-dependant relationship?

 

Those are things women tend to like in a mate... not men.

 

Confidence is less important to me than self esteem. Confidence is easily faked. Independence is only nice so long as it's not taken too far.

 

I'd rather have a woman with integrity, who is nurturing, is humble, highly values family, has a solid work ethic, and is intelligent.

 

One thing that I realized while reading this thread is that American couples, more than others, seem to have confusion over their individual roles in a relationship. I think that becomes a huge problem in American marriages. Men and women end up fighting for control and leverage in a relationship. It gets exhausting.

But that aside, I don't buy into the notion that American women are all bad. There are humble and selfless American women. I ended up marrying an Asian woman, but I had my reasons for that. There are probably some American women I could have dated and eventually married had I not found my wife.

 

Any chance that reason is that she was the best woman you met?

 

Some, yes, but not all.

Another good thing about those qualities I listed as far as their worth in a partnership is that it is healthy for two people in a couple to feel like equals: in intelligence, in self-worth, in competency, and more.

 

I don't understand where all this talk of equality comes from. Do you really go around thinking your better or worse than 99% of the men out there?

 

I consider all women to be my equal. I don't consider myself better than them or worse.

 

I don't understand this obsession with finding someone equal. In fact on the other thread most women stated that they want a guy who is actually more talented than they are.

 

That's true I will admit. I noticed this in my ex best friend's relationship. She was of the mind that she wanted to be "independent" so when she found herself jobless instead of appreciating her boyfriend paying all the bills for her till she found a job she sulked about him wanting her to cook dinner for them and help clean up while he was at work. She wanted to be in control of the relationship and felt that those duties demeaned her by making her like a housewife which she thinks to be the worst position a woman can find herself in. Probably another reason her and I are no longer friends.

 

I see that as a big theme in many of the relationships I've had with American women. It may also explain why there is so much resentment and resistance over the idea of putting in extra effort in your relationship.

 

It makes most relationships more of a power struggle than anything else.

 

The question wasn't what good qualities ONLY American women have, but what good qualities that American women emphasize and place importance in. My answer stands.

 

You didn't come up with much to be honest. Fidelity was nowhere near your list, whereas it's something our culture really emphasizes for men.

 

No I'm not out to impress anyone and my boyfriend knows it. That's not my personality. When we first got together I didn't do anything to impress him, he just liked me for me and I liked him for him and here we are. I give to my boyfriend because I love him and I want him to be happy and because his happiness is so intertwined with my own now, him being happy makes me happy.

 

My GF does the same... why is it so bad that we put lots of effort into each other? How is giving up relationship control bad for her?

[aerogurl87]

The most important thing are the traits you DIDNT list.

 

Ambition is not the same as Hard working.

 

Education is not as important as Wisdom

 

Independent is not the same as Taking Care of Yourself.

 

Fighting for Equality creates an Adversarial Atmosphere. I want a relationship not a battle.

 

True.

 

 

The bottom line is that when pressed to come up with traits we value in American women... the only message we really put through to girls is this.

 

"Do whatever it takes to look Pretty... that is where your value lies, and Do whatever you feel is required to make yourself happy."

 

Unfortunately true as well. But when you have people making people like the the cast of Jersey Shore and Paris Hilton their role models what do you expect?

 

My GF does the same... why is it so bad that we put lots of effort into each other? How is giving up relationship control bad for her?

 

It's not a bad thing, it's GREAT you two do that. And her giving up control isn't bad either.

[Untouchable_Fire]

It's not a bad thing, it's GREAT you two do that. And her giving up control isn't bad either.

 

I had not really looked at it like her giving up control. She just acts like she really likes me... so I make sure she knows I really like her too.

 

I just sent her a message to let her know I miss her. :bunny:

 

I absolutely cannot understand how all these ladies here on this forum think that playing games and pretending your not interested in a guy makes you more powerful in a relationship.

 

If you really want to protect yourself... don't hop into bed right away. The other stuff is just silly.