Reasons for silence - in need for female insight!

[Dixiecron]

OK, so if I'm following you, you're feeling for the first time in your life (at least on the visceral love-relationship level).

 

Hurts to have someone stick a dagger in your gut while whispering sweet nothings into your ear, doesn't it? Now she's pulling the dagger out nice and slow, watching and drawing out your every expression of pain and sadness. Zen emptiness, Zen pain. Is that fist really open?

 

Stop counting the days. Time is time. There is no deadline, except the one that puts you in the grave.

 

Like you said, you need to date someone else for a while. Maybe you'll find another visceral relationship that feeds your soul instead of ripping it in two with all sorts of doubt about what you should do. Either do something, or do nothing. You end up dead either way, the only difference is the path you choose to get there.

[Dixiecron]

Care2,

 

My smartass answer would be to tell you that I've put down more baggage than a baggage handler at La Guardia puts down in a week. Trust me on that one.

 

The sneaky answer would be something along the lines of "why make things more complicated than they need to be?"

 

The truth is that I'm one of those people who has made the mistake in life of trying to carry other people's baggage too far, for too long. I've already got plenty of my own baggage just from doing that... I hate to see other people do the same. I have yet to see anyone who has gotten anything good from doing so.

[lost_in_chgo]

Yes..i understand.

 

open fist ... death...

 

Ahhh, but there is no love without pain.

There is no joy without sorrow.

The wise man is mocked by fools.

 

All things pass... Patience attains all it strives for.

 

-----

If you love something set it free.

If it comes back to you, it is a boomerang.

[Care2]

There is no commitment without sacrifice.

[Dixiecron]

Lost,

 

Yep, patience. Any way you cut it the only thing to do is just live your own life and let others do whatever they will.

[mandrews1119]

Hello again all,

 

Mandrews back. Whew!! Sounds like a lot has been going on in a few days. Lost, you sound like me on any given day when I lose my rational grip on being patient and stoic and give in to raw emotions. It happens, it is a part of you. It takes a little while to stay more focused on the things you know you must do at this time. You asked how I know that she is thinking of you. she is because you have been in a relationship with you, and in love. It is impossible for her NOT to think of you. It is just WHAT she thinks that is so important to you, and also so OUT of your reach, control, or influence. It is now when it is simply the love and strength of what you had (have) that will determine what happens next from her point of view. If she contacts you now, or in the near future, fine. If she doesn't, that's not what you want, but is fine also. In the meantime you must continue to gain strength and direction each day. Your reasons for doing so must suffice you for now. For yourself, your family, your sanity, whatever. Even if it is for the preparation of a potential reunification with your ex. Most people who fail to plan for the future lose out because the chance comes and they are still stuck somewhere in the past. any relationship you have with your ex is a future one now. It may be 10 minutes from now or 10 years, but it IS in the future, and if you aren't prepared for that fact, you can forget it.

 

That having been said, there are two approaches you can take. You can walk away, or you can choose to keep the door open. Keeping the door open does not mean losing your marbles every day (although it may feel like it), but it does mean you must live each day and gain strength in successfully making it through. It means you don't have to be a recluse or a hermit, but it doesn't mean you have to go jump into a relationship or get married either. If you meet someone who you decide to build with, then it will just happen. If it makes you stronger in the love and belief you have in your ex, then that is a beautiful thing as well. I think this is where a lot of people lose the concept of love. They allow other things to prevent them from returning to the love they had, often in the quest to "prove" they have "moved on". Some couples just need to work out the timing, and they reunite even stronger after finding out the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side, or they work out things and work for a better future. Operative word - future. If you don't realize it is a future love that you are working toward, albeit using the strength of the love that has existed all along, you are doomed to fail. You can't have the same old thing, but you can have a better new thing based on the love that has hopefully obviosly endured. Most couples that are into the romance thing really get this. It is one of the strongest, most passionate things to be part of a love that endures. I hope it works that way for you, Care2, and everyone who believes in the power of love, and who gets at least the opportunity to try again. Mandrews out. Hope I didn't put anyone to sleep. I'm just a hopeless romantic still in love.

[Care2]

Thank you Mandrews. As always, your words calm the soul.

 

caretoo/Care2

[mandrews1119]

Dear C2, C2Much, Lost, et al,

 

Since I've been posting here I've found there are basically two types of folks - the hopeless romantics (no matter what your situation has been), and those who believe in some form or another of "tough love" - let us call it. You know, the folks who find it easier to walk away, or who find us romantics to either be out of our minds with NOT seeing reality (as they see it), or two inches away from being stalkers. Although I do not agree with a lot of their stances (and if you have read some of my posts, you'll see we've gone at it from time to time), I most certainly honor and respect their points of view, and even agree with them on occasion. (did I really admit that?) But, I speak mainly from my own humble perspective, as I am sure we all do. I have hurt, I have been hurt, loved, and been loved and I find understanding in all these points of view. However, I find the universal good(s) to outweigh the universal bad. If you have ever been IN love, then you know the joys it brings, and for those of us who are angry and hurt, you know what the taking of that love, or its' absence is all about too. A lot of the people who are "angry" on this website, are so because they have been hurt or lost love. We then become creatures of our experiences, and some of us become afraid to ever look outside of our pain, whether it be to reunite, or to love again. We begin to think of love not in its' beautiful, motivating, uplifting senses, but as something unattainable, or too painful to enjoy. It is easy to think we can never change the circumstances that wounded or hurt love, and we feel it impossible to recapture it in any form. I tend to think the glass is full as far as love is concerned, not only if it is half-filled, not only if there is but a drop in it, but as long as there is a glass, as long as there is something to put in that glass. Because things may not work out in the end, is no proof that we should not try. Often it is in the trying that we truly discover how strong, how beautiful, how enduring love really is. I cannot MAKE my ex forgive me and return, I cannot MAKE her see or know my (dare I say hers' and my) anguish and pain at not being together or to have done things better so we may not have parted; but I can say that had she, or if she but reflect or care to learn of the strength of the love we do have, that it may make her smile and feel joy, if but for a moment. If one moment leads to another and we do reconnect, will we not be the stronger for it? Should we discount all the successful reunions that occur? I only believe because it is who I am, as it is with all of you out there who may feel similarly. I can do nothing other because I must be true to my feelings, because I believe love never dies, it is how we allow it to live that determines so much. Do we have the courage to say we were wrong, we made mistakes, and I love you enough to try again with a new and stronger commitment? That in this thing we call love, which is a coming together of two imperfect people to try and support each other, and strive for perfection and union - we may actually find it DOES work. To some who are not willing to try, to endure, to stay the course, what I feel, what I write may sound like dreaming. To me, and others like me, it is our reality, it is who we are, it is the(Mandrews) defining of love.

[hurtingandconfused]

I have not kept up with all of your posts. However I did read the last one ...And I have to say Mandrews you said it all. I agree with you in every sentence..word for word...

 

I can do nothing other because I must be true to my feelings, because I believe love never dies

[caretoomuch]

I agree that love never dies ... to me it is a state of mind where there is such a fine line between love, friendship and hate that people switch over the line very quickly and convince themselves they are not in love anymore .... the love is still there it is just the power of the mind that tells them they are not in love. we are all hoping to find the switch to turn it back 'on'.

 

A question about the grass not being greener on the other side.

 

If a relationship ends and the ex jumps the fence onto the other side and starts again but finds out that life is no better why would they then choose to jump back. To them they are on their side now and your side is now the other side ... why would they jump back knowing that the grass is no greener over there also ... wouldnt they just elect to stay knowing there is nothing better for the moment ? I can understand jumping back if it was worse on their side but if it was equal ????? Dont people jump the fence because of the unknown and mystery and expectation of things being better ... to jump back is hard because they know what is over on the other side.

 

just a thought for discussion

 

cheers

[mandrews1119]

Dear c2m,

In response to your question, what makes people "jump back" is a severe dose of reality, followed by a good dose of honesty on their part (assuming they can be honest with themselves), and the realization - if not fear, that they may have wronged and possibly lost someone who really, truly loves them. If that matters more than pride, or other similar feelings, (guilt, fear) then there is a good chance they may feel they made a mistake and try to reach out to the one they walked away from. Often, the fear of rejection, or pride may keep them from this even though it may be what they really want. If they can get past this, perhaps they will find that loved one still there. Love that is real is a love that will last. If a person is still "measuring" things, they haven't found love on either side.

[lost_in_chgo]

OK it's been a month now since last contact.

 

I'm really really tempted to follow up on this today, but I've promised I'd wait the two more weeks i've been advised to.

 

The last thing I want to do is spook her now.

 

Someone please talk me down!

[Care2]

Lost,

 

I have a cat that is skittish by nature. Whenever, I let her approach me she can't seem to get enough of me. She purrs and wants to be in my face and even tries to climb up my robe in the morning just to get some affection. HOWEVER, if I force her to sit with me or approach her in the afternoon when she wants to be left alone, she will cry, run from me or scratch me to get down.

 

Let her come to you in her own time.

 

c

[lost_in_chgo]

Hmm,

 

Bet that cat comes around whenever the food comes out though.

 

Well I'm waiting her out. I hope.

It's more than a month now. This month went quick.

 

My friend who told me to wait for 6 weeks, today said that if she doesn't contact me in two weeks she probably never will.

[caretoomuch]

Lost,

 

I have the same predicament ... i want to contact her but dont want to pressure. There must be some way for you to contact her without pressure - to test the water as such - surely you can talk without discussing the relationship - re-build the friendship first and then slowly as she becomes comfortable build the relationship back to the love stage. The love is still there it just needs trust.

 

To be silent (the no contact rule) is great but i am starting to think that if left too long then we loose contact ... we need to have safe ways to contact that cannot be pushy ... it will not be instantly back to what it was ... she needs to be able to trust (and you trust her) ... cant you call and just talk about 'friends' stuff ?

 

Ladies ... what are non-pressuring contact methods you would not run from or feel pressured by ?

 

cheers from oz

c2m

[Care2]

Lost,

 

Your friend may be right. I received a letter after 1 month of no contact but waited 6 weeks to respond to it. I felt incredible pressure to do so and think I responded in a way I shouldn't have. Looking back I wish I had given myself another month. My head was in a better/truer place later on and my response would have been different. It's in an even better one now...much more clarity.

 

Well, I didn't hear back and I have given up the hope that I will. I felt that 2 months was a sufficient time to wait and if I didn't hear back by then, I never would. Well, I still haven't and it's been 2 more months. I have given up hope. But every know and then, I still wish.

 

Who knows what is best. If I hadn't responded at all I may be in the same place. ? Time will tell...

 

I can tell you that it gets easier as time goes on. I have learned a few things in the meantime though. One of which is to try not to listen to "lost love"music for awhile unless you really want to go to a pity party of one. Upbeat music is fine it you can find some that makes you feel good. Also, try to stop thinking that every car that looks like hers is her. It is not so keep your eyes on the road!

 

Good luck Lost. If she doesn't respond by your deadline that certainly doesn't mean she won't respond at a later date. Ironically, by then you probably won't even care..seems unlikely now though, huh?

 

c

[caretoomuch]

Care2,

 

Just a stupid question ... if you have more clarity about things now why dont you re-try and send the response you wish you had before ?

 

Maybe the door is still open but neither of you is looking at the moment ... maybe the true response from you now will make him look again.

 

just a stupid male thought .... you will never know the truth unless you ask the question. There is love there it just needs help ... dont let pride / fear (all those things mandrews spoke of) stop you jumping back over the fence.

 

cheers from oz

 

c2m

[care2]

C2m

 

Hello my friend!

 

Oops, you caught me second guessing...

 

I thought about the very same thing this am but then decided that if I am ever to have a "second chance" I want it to be a new relationship with OM, not a continuance of the old one. (You know the working relationship we had so you know that it was professionally restricted, and, because of this, maybe artificial to some extent.)

 

I would want to start again with a new more "real" friendship...without limitations/restrictions. I don't think that I am at that point yet. It still would feel somewhat awkward to me. I need more time to pass. Does that make any sense to you. ?

 

I am starting to rethink again though. At the same time, I feel like I have made some real progress moving on and it scares the hell out of me to jepordize it. What to do, what to do?

 

I'll sleep on it AGAIN!!!

c

[caretoomuch]

C2,

 

Definately friends ... no need for second guessing.

 

I realise the nature of your realtionship before ... but as you have told me that is no longer the case and hence you would instantly have a NEW base for a relationship. I understand the fear of doing this in case it just puts your 'healing' back, but i would rather know and go for it than live with regrets. I am full of regrets and it tears me apart daily, my mood swings just happen and i sit there shaking my head at myself realising all the things i did wrong. to not know i was doing these things just makes me sad and regretful. You have a door to walk through and to have no regrets ... take it. Yes go slow and build a good truthful relationship ... you have the advantage as you know there is love there between you both ... one step ahead of me ... it is up to you to let that love live or else you will be full of regrets and what ifs forever ... whatever path you travel you will always have these regrets ... put them to sleep and find the truth and give love its chance ... no matter what the pain it may cause you now .. at least you would have tried and from what u say it sounds like you would have a better than average chance of winning ... it is worth the risk i think.

 

ps.. i sent u an email today.

 

cheers from ur aussie friend.

[Care2]

Non pressuring contact methods? Let me think...

 

 

A call? Not so good. (Too awkward) Forces a response.

 

A letter? Maybe, if not to intimate. Drawback is - no immediate response/feedback for you.

 

An e-mail? Probably ok. If short and light/humorous. Chance of getting a response back fairly quickly. (But this depends on the parties involved and at what point the relationship is at the time) Could also be deleted as easily.

 

I guess I would feel the best with a surprise visit at the office (this depends on your work environment and if you would have this option/privacy/time).

 

A coffee "date", invitation to lunch, etc. I personally like this one.

 

The only other option is a chance meeting which would be great but is not going to happen unless you do some investigating... if you know what I mean. That is the tricky part. If you know their schedule then maybe you could accidentally on purpose run into them somewhere.

Is this considered stalking or good stategy? If it is stalking, I have been guilty of this in the past...but it was before stalking was considered a crime!!! However, I must admit, it did get me a "coffee date".

 

c

[miscel]

Mandrews , that was truly beautiful what you said in your post

 

just happened to still be up this late

 

I just had to tell you that. I feel exactly the same way. I hope more people in this forum read that post. Truly inspiring.

[Helluvagurl]

I feel that she is silent because she does not want to talk to you. I know that may not be what you want to hear .

 

I feel that perhaps you may not want to contact her again. Each time you write toher and she "ignores" you, you must feel horrible. So why keep doing it?

 

Do yourself a big favor and just move on with your life. It may not be easy however it can be done. Life is great! There are so many other wonderful girls out there that won't "ignore or be silent" with you.

[lost_in_chgo]

That she doesn't want to talk is certainly true, but I think the question was more of why. People don't talk for alot of reasons (disinterest, dislike, fear, confusion, etc.).

 

Those seeking second chances have some reason to think (or some dillusion perhaps) that the reason for the silence (or the breakup) is maybe not seated in a well thought out, rational, logical or deep seated desire to break contact or communication. But rather it is an emotional reaction, that when looked at in a different emotional light, might bring the significant other to a different way of thinking.

 

People make assumptions and analyses when they have lost someone. Some immediately assume there is no chance, others find some hope for a future chance. Which is true depends on the reality of situation. Either way, there is no second chance if you close the door. Leave the door open and who knows?

 

You can be optimistic or pessimistic and still leave the door open. Cynicism and despair will certainly cause their own expectations to become true.

[caretoomuch]

i believe she doesnt want to talk because she has a new relationship ... i have decided to leave her alone and for me to start again. i find hope when there is none ... i have no reason for hope and she has not given me any. I think the answer is .. silence is her answer ... short of her saying piss off you creep ... time to grow up and smell the roses (or the stuff used as fertiliser).

 

tomorrow my divorce is legal (after 2 years of fighting in courts) this is my milestone that will mark the start of something new ... my ex gf helped me through a lot of pain in this time but she couldnt wait and that is her choice ... now i must respect that and leave her to live her life whilst i live mine. i still hope to meet again and maybe in time be a trusted friends.

 

thanx for the advice over the past 3 months..

 

cheers

 

c2m signing off.

[mandrews1119]

Hello everyone,

I seem to find this thread over and over again. I like it, and all of the people who post here. feels like old friends just chatting. C2M, I think you can get something from lost's last post, my friend. One has to get out of the "expectation" phase of the breakup, or you'll be stuck looking for and waiting for responses when it may not be in your ex's time frame to give them, and which in turn will drive you nuts.! The reason(s) why she doesn't respond at this time are hers alone and you'll do better NOT to beat yourself up over them. If she is in a new relationship and that helps her to find her way back to you, have YOU not benefited by that? And if you sit and ponder HER doings too strongly, do you not find yourself NOT making progress? If you make no progress, why should she reconsider things with you? Whatever her reasons are, you are better served by being strong and preparing for the future. She will learn of the finality of your divorce, and when she has enough emotional courage and intent, she will contact you. She already KNOWS what you want, and maybe she just cannot handle that at this time. when she can, she will seek you out, if her heart can take it. I hope it can.