The Bs and The AP are more different tha you may think.

[jennie-jennie]

jennie, this rationalization reminds me of the infamous Marion Barry, former mayor of Washington DC, who, in 1989, explained that his city had a very low crime rate if you disregarded the murders (which were horrifyingly high).

 

Not surprisingly, few citizens of Washington DC were comforted.

 

A bit farfetched I would say. To compare murder with infidelity.

 

I want my MM to myself. I do not want to share him. Why would I want him to romanticise his wife? This is not rationalization. It is the natural drive of wanting to be your partner's sole woman.

 

That doesn't mean that I don't want her to be treated as well as any other human being.

[jennie-jennie]

On the contrary...your belief that your situation is different is centered in the belief that it will eventually end in your favor is some fashion.

 

You still hold to the belief that he is making some kind of forward progress towards you, no matter how slow that might seem to others.

 

Whereas others who have also been in long-term affairs normally recognize by now that he's content where he's at...

 

You still cling to the hope that he's going to leave her someday and be with you...even though years of experience by now should have shown you otherwise.

 

You hope that YOUR long term affair will turn out differently than all the others...and that's what I meant by believing that your situation is different.

 

But regardless...I'm off on a tangent, and this thread probably should get back on topic if at all possible.

 

Refusing to give up that last sliver of hope does not mean that I do not look at my situation realistically.

[donnamaybe]

I didn't say it was a mistake to have expectations. I said it was a mistake to base their relationship on a trust that he will live up to the expectations. He is human, he is going to fail somewhere, somehow. If it is not allowed in their relationship, he will not be honest with her.

If she doesn't KNOW he wants to have some f-buddy on the side, how can anyone say whether she'd allow it or not?

[Owl]

Refusing to give up that last sliver of hope does not mean that I do not look at my situation realistically.

 

On the contrary...it means precisely that.

[thomasb]

Ah but Jenny, infidelity is murder. The WS effectively murders the marriage. In order to recover you MUST create a new marriage. Starting from scratch, with all the anger, heartbreak, and mistrust thrown into the mix. If you can and do reconcile you are very much stronger and more intimate. It's the way it works.

[jennie-jennie]

Yup you don't want to hear it. You are fine with the situation being with a man for 5 years with no forward motion who lies and cheats on his family daily. I don't know why you always try to profess differently.

 

Agreed. I am fine with that. As my MM says, love is my religion. Love is the moral I live by.

[Snowflower]

I've been having a bit of trouble understanding the 'heartless' comments. I feel that the day I sat my wife down at the kitchen table and confessed what had been going on was the first step up kinda thing I'd done for any of us in monthes. Coming clean to her was stepping up and being a man not a coward.

 

You are getting the "heartless" comments because you're not lamenting about your fond memories of your xOW.

 

With that attitude, you won't score a lot of points with the OW crowd here on LS.

 

I am glad though that you did man up to your poor choices all those years ago and I'm sure that you're ability to own your decisions made a lot of difference to your wife when she decided if she could give you another chance. It seems that you had a good outcome.

[thomasb]

Thank you Snowflower, that is one of the nicest things said to me since I've been here. God Bless you and yours!

[xxoo]

A bit farfetched I would say. To compare murder with infidelity.

 

I want my MM to myself. I do not want to share him. Why would I want him to romanticise his wife? This is not rationalization. It is the natural drive of wanting to be your partner's sole woman.

 

That doesn't mean that I don't want her to be treated as well as any other human being.

 

I wasn't comparing murder with infidelity. Marion Barry never murdered anyone (that I know of!).

 

I'm comparing an examples of rationalization.

 

Of course you want your partner to yourself. Of course you do not want a wife treated poorly. The question is, how do you (general you) maintain attraction to someone who treats his wife so poorly?

 

I asked because an OW upthread pointed out that thomasb was heartless during his affair. I agreed. But I wonder why the MM is only considered heartless by the OW if it is an OW being treated poorly. Why aren't these men rejected as "heartless" based on the way they treat their wives? Why is the wife's treatment rationalized, and the man still considered a desirable, attractive partner? Because all I see is heartless

[Summer Breeze]

On the contrary...it means precisely that.

 

No it doesn't. A dear friend had cancer and there was almost no hope for her. Doctors told the family to not allow themselves to hope. What good would a lack of hope done them? I would rather cling to hope for something than to lose hope and give up before I should.

 

Hope is like a piece of string. How long is the piece of string that represents YOUR hope? How long is MINE? How long is JJ's? Every one of them will be different. It's not up to you to tell anyone they shouldn't hold onto that sliver of hope. What would have told me if I'd said, hey Owl buddy. Your wife had an emotional affair and there's almost zip hope your marriage will recover. Would you have given up on your last sliver of hope? Would you want someone telling you that what was hope in your heart was going to bring you nothing but despair? Are you glad now that if those things were said that you held onto that sliver of hope Owl?

 

This is JJs hope and it's up to her how long the string is.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't know why. But I know that he does. He betrays her, lies to her, gaslights her. He denies her the truth so that she can take make informed choices for herself. How politely he speaks while he does these things makes little difference.

 

See this is why I do not believe in marriage, do not believe in making a vow about something that can not be promised. It turns you into a liar. At least if you try to keep your vow after the best-before date.

[donnamaybe]

Yeah...I kinda figured it would be shrugged off, but at least I gave it my best effort.

It's because the change that would occur wouldn't be to her liking. That's my take on it.

[Summer Breeze]

It's because the change that would occur wouldn't be to her liking. That's my take on it.

 

You're absolutely right. It would be like taking the cast off the broken arm before it's healed. Why would she push something she feels they aren't ready for yet? Why would she push it if she is pretty sure he'd stay home?

[thomasb]

I thank God everyday that I didn't kill my wife's' belief in marriage. JJ I truly feel sorry for you that you feel this way.

[xxoo]

See this is why I do not believe in marriage, do not believe in making a vow about something that can not be promised. It turns you into a liar. At least if you try to keep your vow after the best-before date.

 

Did your MM enter a marriage without legal provision for divorce?

[donnamaybe]

You're absolutely right. It would be like taking the cast off the broken arm before it's healed. Why would she push something she feels they aren't ready for yet? Why would she push it if she is pretty sure he'd stay home?

Wouldn't nearly ANYONE ELSE think after a five year affair that he'll still be staying home in TEN?

[thomasb]

Summers breeze, because everyone deserves better than 1/2 a relationship.

[BB07]

thomasb, having an affair was heartless...to both your wife (even though you treated her well in her presence, you betrayed her behind her back). In your case, it was particularly heartless to your OW, as well, as you didn't care for her much and appear to have been using her.

 

If you are back on track, you are now acting with heart. But, yes, I agree with the crowd that your actions during your affair were heartless all around.

 

Said perfectly!

 

Thomas I've noticed in your postings that you seem to carry a lot disdain for your OW, I don't get it, because clearly at some point in time, you thought she was someone of worth. Perhaps you've turned the anger you feel toward yourself toward her?

[BB07]

I don't get why everyone keeps at jennie jennie. The same things are said to her over and over and she says the same things over and over. Obviously she is accepting of where she is, so what is the point?

[Summer Breeze]

Wouldn't nearly ANYONE ELSE think after a five year affair that he'll still be staying home in TEN?

 

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. My father cheated on my mother repeatedly through all of their marriage. I firmly believe anyone else would have thought it wasn't worth it but she did. She never gave up hope. In their retirement she was diagnosed with several horrible and crippling illnesses and he's been a godsend to her. She never gave up hope that he was the one and he was.

 

I wouldn't have done it but she did. I asked her a little while ago if she could go back and change things if she would and she said not on your life.

[thomasb]

No my disdain and disgust came into being after I ended and confessed. That is when her true colors came out. Maybe the contant slurs and attacks against my wife who was innocent of all that were in her mind the way to win me back. She was wrong. All they earned her were a few days in jail and an R.O.

[jennie-jennie]

Did your MM enter a marriage without legal provision for divorce?

 

His religion doesn't allow it.

[donnamaybe]

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. My father cheated on my mother repeatedly through all of their marriage. I firmly believe anyone else would have thought it wasn't worth it but she did. She never gave up hope. In their retirement she was diagnosed with several horrible and crippling illnesses and he's been a godsend to her. She never gave up hope that he was the one and he was.

 

I wouldn't have done it but she did. I asked her a little while ago if she could go back and change things if she would and she said not on your life.

Not that I would put up with that kind of treatment, but they were ALREADY MARRIED. HUGE difference. At least ONE of his OW probably wanted him full time too. See how THAT never happened?

[donnamaybe]

His religion doesn't allow it.

Now THIS is just HYSTERICAL!!!!

[Summer Breeze]

Summers breeze, because everyone deserves better than 1/2 a relationship.

 

Nope. We have what we choose. I was involved for quite a few years with a financier who worked gazillions of hours a week and was out of the country more than he was in. My friends used to get so angry that I settled for that. Guess what-it suited. The WS and an OW/OM are in a relationship that suits them. When it doesn't then it will end. It may be messy and painful but so was breaking up and asking someone to move out who was in Singapore. Life is messy.

 

Note I did not say the BS chose the involvement.