Career trumps love...again!?!

[Sanman]

So, I am sure not many here are familiar with my story, I will recap quickly. I came here while having troubles with my previous relationship. While I won't go into details about all the problems, a big part of our breakup happened because she was a grad student and working. I have a demanding career as well, but am in a position with more regular hours for the time being. She was working six days a week. She had to balance family, friends, and me with only wednesday nights, friday nights, and saturday off. By the end of our 6 month relationship, We saw each other wednesday nights and talked on sundays. Other than that our contact was limited to text/email. I would often only see her when she was tired/in a bad mood and became resentful if she happened to talk about a fun time on weekends as I was not a part of it. I understood her need to keep in touch with friends and make new ones, but I began to be angry that I was only getting the sh*tty parts of her on weekdays and we were rarely having the fun we did initially. She just wasn't willing to sacrifice other parts of her life to make our relationship a priority over the other parts of her life. Well, that relationship ended in early June. It hurt, but I moved on.

 

About a month later, I met another amazing woman and we have been seeing each other for 2.5 months. Well, she is also a student (in my field) and working her way through school. I was talking to her tonight and we just figured out that she has a very similar schedule to my ex this semester. I did not see her last weekend and will likely not this weekend as she has friend/family commitments that I can't come to. Since I put down the phone, I have this sick feeling in my stomach that history is going to repeat itself. We already had the crappy date last night with her being tired/sick and me not having any fun. I need to sit down and talk with her this week about this, but I was hoping that LS might have some advice on making this work. Clearly my last attempt at this did not turn out so well. I know I need her to set some boundaries in her life and make time for us. I have no problem sharing my history with her and will do that.Any other help?

Edited September 16, 2010 by Sanman

[denise_xo]

Hi Sanman, my blunt advice would be find a woman who is not in grad school. I'm doing a PhD and also doing various other jobs and consultancies on the side, and behaving very much like your ex and maybe also current gf. Part of it is financial necessity (I'm the breadwinner and need to ensure bills are paid, my research salary alone won't sustain us), part of it is the nature of research which (for some but not all) becomes a certain type of love-relationship that at times takes you over intellectually and emotionally and pushes other social relationships to the side. I'm not saying that's good or right, but for many researchers it's an inherent part of their existence, as they view the nature of their work more like that of a creative artist than that of a 9-5 job.

Having said that, I fully understand how you feel and why it isn't working for you. I encourage you to discuss this with her and I hope you can find a solution that works for the two of you. However, by relating yourself to someone in her position you are by default up for a challenge, I think. Good luck to you!

[meerkat stew]

Sad to say, in these situations, you have very little control over making it work, because you become the bad guy/stressor when you make an issue of it. Agree with Denise partially, but it doesn't matter whether they are in grad school or not, find one who will prioritize the relationship, it just isn't that difficult to do most grad school and keep a relationship going.

 

Grad school is peanuts compared to what many couples have to endure in separation and work pressures. The only exception I can think of is medical residency. Someone going through that has a legitimate claim of being too busy. Most other grad students do not unless they aren't bright enough for the program and constantly struggling. I can't conceive of a situation where a couple dating 2.5 months and in an exclusive relationship where the busy party can't figure out ways to include their SO in their non-school activities and thus prioritize the relationship at least as high as other things.

[Crazy Magnet]

I'm a full time PhD student and I work full time in research too. I literally have NO time and it has nothing to do with how smart I am or am not. Unfortunately work and school have to come first for me at this time in my life and I'm sure that's true for many people in grad school. We don't choose to get a PhD because we are only "sort of" dedicated to our life's passions. It is like a love-relationship when it comes to my research.

 

I make a concerted effort to make time for my BF but we met and began to date when I wasn't working. Otherwise, I can't see how this R would have gotten off the ground.

 

If you want to settle for the time scraps keep dating this girl. My advice is to find someone other than a student.

[Sanman]

Hey guys, I definitely understand what you guys are saying. As I mentioned, I am in her field and have been ridiculously busy. So, I do get where she is coming from. The difference is that I am done (I finished very quickly), but many of the women I am interested in dating are not. I enjoy being with women who have their own careers as I have one that demands a large chunk of time as well. However, this has been a persisting problem in my dating life. If they are not in grad school, they are about to go (usually leaving the area). It is hard enough finding someone I enjoy intellectually/personality-wise and am physically attracted to without expecting them to be settled into their career. I do want to make this relationship work.

 

Crazy magnet, we met over the summer when she had more time as well. Any tips on how you make it work? How are you not exhausted when you see him. How does relationship and sex life not suffer?

[Crazy Magnet]

Crazy magnet, we met over the summer when she had more time as well. Any tips on how you make it work? How are you not exhausted when you see him. How does relationship and sex life not suffer?

 

I can't say at the moment that it's working exceptionally well though we are trying. We start couples counseling in a few weeks.

 

I'm always exhausted when we are together. I'm always thinking "Holy crap I have 100 more pages to read tonight and the long assignment due." We both feel like we don't have enough "us" time. The relationship suffers a lot because I HAVE to put school and work first. Especially since I work directly in my area of research interest (not as a student worker). It's like world's longest job interview for a (hopefully) tenure track position at the end when I graduate.

 

Sex life....not to be disheartening but I'm lucky to get some on the weekends. It's not what I want and it's not what he wants. Some of this is on him too though. To arrive bright eyed at work at 6:30am I have to go to bed rather early (9:30 or 10). He could choose to come to bed with me then and get some, but he stays up later because he doesn't go into work until 9 (though he could go in early too if he wanted, I have no choice) and he isn't "sleepy" because he stays in bed four extra hours in the morning. I'm frustrated that he won't adjust his schedule for the next year so we can have more time together and he's just frustrated that we don't have any time together.

 

Boyfriends come and go.....tenure track positions are hard to land but last for a lifetime. I'm placing more of my eggs on Option B. Some of these girls you meet could be doing the same. Don't forget, it's still harder for women to make it in a lot of fields dominated by men (my problem! urg!) so we really have to stand out to get anywhere.

[Sanman]

 

Boyfriends come and go.....tenure track positions are hard to land but last for a lifetime. I'm placing more of my eggs on Option B. Some of these girls you meet could be doing the same. Don't forget, it's still harder for women to make it in a lot of fields dominated by men (my problem! urg!) so we really have to stand out to get anywhere.

 

 

See, this is what I am concerned about. I could honestly say the same thing, as I could be just as busy as her if I chose to put my career before the relationship as well. However, then all we end up as is a bunch of miserable, overworked, single people.

[Crazy Magnet]

See, this is what I am concerned about. I could honestly say the same thing, as I could be just as busy as her if I chose to put my career before the relationship as well. However, then all we end up as is a bunch of miserable, overworked, single people.

 

 

When I am done with school and have landed that tenure track position my ideals will shift and I'll be much more like you. But as an up and coming researcher, we have no choice but to distinguish ourselves.

 

You are at a place where you can chose to be busy or not. As a student we aren't at a place yet to chose what we want to do if we want as many open doors as possible at the end of all this.

 

I fully intend to get through my program and put my career on cruise control but I can't back off yet or there won't be a career to do anything with.

 

If you want someone at the same level of busy as you then you need to find someone at the same stage of life as you. Don't think less of these girls for being at a different place in life and don't expect them to suddenly be where you are if they are still in school.

[Sanman]

When I am done with school and have landed that tenure track position my ideals will shift and I'll be much more like you. But as an up and coming researcher, we have no choice but to distinguish ourselves.

 

You are at a place where you can chose to be busy or not. As a student we aren't at a place yet to chose what we want to do if we want as many open doors as possible at the end of all this.

 

I fully intend to get through my program and put my career on cruise control but I can't back off yet or there won't be a career to do anything with.

 

If you want someone at the same level of busy as you then you need to find someone at the same stage of life as you. Don't think less of these girls for being at a different place in life and don't expect them to suddenly be where you are if they are still in school.

 

It isn't about thinking less of them or expecting the situation to change. I was in their position and know that it is difficult. I'm just worried about not being able to make it work and tired of being hurt by situational circumstances when you know that the person is a good fit and it could work at another time/place.

[pandagirl]

It isn't about thinking less of them or expecting the situation to change. I was in their position and know that it is difficult. I'm just worried about not being able to make it work and tired of being hurt by situational circumstances when you know that the person is a good fit and it could work at another time/place.

 

I know what you mean.

[Ruby Slippers]

but it doesn't matter whether they are in grad school or not, find one who will prioritize the relationship

I agree 100%.

 

The guy with whom I had the longest and, in some ways, the most stable relationship was working on his PhD in aerospace engineering when we met, and earned it while we were together. He was a researcher and teaching assistant, had a healthy social life when I met him, and still made time to get to know me, take me on awesome dates and vacations, and sustain a healthy relationship once we moved in together. He spent a lot of hours at the lab, but he got creative with ways we could spend more time together.

 

Sometimes when we was especially busy, he would invite me to the lab to hang out with him and work in parallel, which was awesome! Sure, sometimes we distracted each other, but we did get work done and got to spend time together in some capacity. And he'd often come pick me up at work so we could go out for lunch together.

 

He did adjust his sleep schedule to match mine, which was less flexible than his. He was awesome about doing those little things that really add up, like making my lunch and leaving me a sexy note in it.

 

He had a talk with me early on in the relationship and warned me about his schedule, but I said let's see how it goes. Turns out, he was very loving and attentive, even with his busy schedule. And though I am woman who loves spending time with my man, I never felt deprived of him.

 

I think that if you are a priority to this woman, she will make it clear that you are. And if she doesn't, well, that's her choice, and you just have to accept that.

[tigressA]

I agree completely with RS. She just isn't prioritizing her relationship with you and you have to figure out if you want to accept that or not. I briefly dated a guy who is getting his PhD in engineering, and after not too long it was clear that he didn't care about me nearly as much as he cared about his work.

 

The guy I'm with now isn't in school, but he has a rather demanding career in software architecture, and on top of that we live an hour apart from each other. He'll call or IM me every day, even when he's at work; he invites me to stay with him on the weekends, and he's extremely attentive to me when we spend time together.

 

If this woman really feels you are a priority for her, like RS said, she would make more time for you.

[Crazy Magnet]

I agree completely with RS. She just isn't prioritizing her relationship with you and you have to figure out if you want to accept that or not. I briefly dated a guy who is getting his PhD in engineering, and after not too long it was clear that he didn't care about me nearly as much as he cared about his work.

 

The guy I'm with now isn't in school, but he has a rather demanding career in software architecture, and on top of that we live an hour apart from each other. He'll call or IM me every day, even when he's at work; he invites me to stay with him on the weekends, and he's extremely attentive to me when we spend time together.

 

If this woman really feels you are a priority for her, like RS said, she would make more time for you.

 

As much as I keep saying "career and work come first!" Realize that I see my bf EVERY SINGLE DAY and make sure we have at least one hour to cook/eat/stare at each other every week night and I take a full night off with no distractions on the weekend for him and then use my other weekend night for friends.

 

If I could bring him to work with me I could. As it is, we often sit side by side. I slave away on school work while he writes. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do in this moment. She will see you if she wants to see you.

 

But the other Phd scenarios listen here look like the student's "work" was part of their degree. I have a completely separate job that is in no way tied to my role as a student. It's not a TA/RA type thing. I have a staff that works under me and I'm in charge of a lot of stuff. Life would be grand if I had a nice part time TA position, but ramen noodles aren't my thing. If these girls have work tied to their student role they should most definitely have time for you. If they are working unrelated jobs it's going to be more difficult.

[meerkat stew]

As much as I keep saying "career and work come first!" Realize that I see my bf EVERY SINGLE DAY and make sure we have at least one hour to cook/eat/stare at each other every week night and I take a full night off with no distractions on the weekend for him and then use my other weekend night for friends.

 

In light of that, your situation proves that a busy person can in fact prioritize a relationship during busy times with moderate effort. OP, pay attention to Tigress's characterization. It's not hard to tell the difference between "really busy and still valuing the relationship," and "really busy and not placing any emphasis on the relationship."

 

I worked 14-16 hour days, seven days a week for several years (no exaggeration whatsoever) under -extreme- stress while training in my field, in the office at 9-10AM, out at 12-1AM and then some work at home every single day. I chose not to date during that training time, basically became a monk, and am glad I did looking back. Others however, in my exact situation, were able to conduct their relationships successfully with moderate effort. I still had a rich social life even, by sacrificing the normal completely unplanned "reading the paper in bed type" leisure time in favor of more compact 3-4 hour plans.

 

RS mentions her relationship with the guy who brought her to his work. That is not available for everyone, but sometimes even a bit of thoughtfulness and effort can defuse loads of resenment from not "getting enough time." The simple sounding question is "Is she trying to prioritize? or just throwing her hands up and making excuses?"

[pandagirl]

I think the outcome of a relationship where one (or both) people are busy with their careers depends on each individual.

 

Everyone is different. I think that some people can definitely maneuver around a busy career, but others can't. It depends on where that person is in their lives, if they were in the relationship before, or starting the relationship while in the thick of work.

 

My ex was always upfront about how his career was his number one priority. He flat out told me that. It wasn't the only reason for our breakup, but when push came to shove, he chose to focus on his job. And honestly, knowing his personality (single-minded), I'm not surprised.

[that girl]

Hi Sanman, my blunt advice would be find a woman who is not in grad school.

Not so long ago I was a grad student and 75% of the time I had a normal social life, there were just crunch times. My best friend is currently a grad student she is the same way, most of the time she has time. It really depends on how much you work (I worked half time, my friend has TAed and been on fellowship) and where they are in the program.

 

The real issue here is that neither of these girls were willing to give you prime time placement and spend 24 hours together during a weekend. Sure sometimes you're going to have a friend's birthday part or need to study for exam, but most couples spend a chunk of the weekend together on a regular basis.

 

They just weren't that into you.

[yah]

Definitely ask her if a relationship would be a priority for her. The only tip I have to offer is that both people need to be REALLY flexible.

 

I'm a 4th yr PhD student but I find school to be very flexible. SO wanted to do lunch mid-day today, I said sure, and I re-arranged my day's experiments/study to fit it in but he had to compromise on the location due to time constraints and he was happy to do so. I work late sometimes and just a tiny bit on the weekends but can still devote enough time into my relationship. Of course there are times when she'd be more busy (writing, prepping ppts, candidacy exams, dissertation, defense) but I don't see how it cant work. I've never had a real job but I'd imagine it would be like that too at times. The real problem, I think, is where she'll be after grad school. Hard to avoid that one.

[Sanman]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the responses. Just to make things clear about the current gf, this was the first time it happened as she has had a lot more time available over the summer. Anyway, I spoke to her about it and what we both realized is that we were both holding back a bit (she was waiting for me to inject myself into her life and I was waiting for her to invite me to join her). Suffice to say that we have been/will be seeing a whole lot more of each other regardless of her schedule. She actually wants things to move along a lot faster than I am used to, but was holding back because she didn't want to scare me away. Guess it's time to buckle up and enjoy the ride!

[denise_xo]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the responses. Just to make things clear about the current gf, this was the first time it happened as she has had a lot more time available over the summer. Anyway, I spoke to her about it and what we both realized is that we were both holding back a bit (she was waiting for me to inject myself into her life and I was waiting for her to invite me to join her). Suffice to say that we have been/will be seeing a whole lot more of each other regardless of her schedule. She actually wants things to move along a lot faster than I am used to, but was holding back because she didn't want to scare me away. Guess it's time to buckle up and enjoy the ride!

 

Excellent, glad to hear. Enjoy