First Date: Where did I mess up?

[Norse]

Ok, so I'm 21 I'll say this right now, the girl is 22 I hadn't been on a date in years, just lost about 100+ pounds and getting back into things. I met her on a dating site, little did I read that she wanted to date but didn't want anything serious. I found this out on the night we went out, and it came like a dagger to the heart but I went along anyway.

 

So here's how it went... drove 120 miles met up with her. We proceeded to drive around and talk about just random things, later on we got out and walked around and chat it was probably just a little after dark at the time. Everything was very romantic, including all the places we seen around the downtown area such as the lights on the trees, the water fountains(not the drinking kind..) etc etc. It was a cool night, I can't recall everything we talked about. But I got to the point that I asked her what had happened in her previous relationship to make it end. And she told me something along the lines of "he was a douche bag, I got bored of him, and he chose pot over me" and I pulled a line out like always and told her I would easily chose her over pot... She also told me she has commitment issues. At that point in time about 30 red flags sprouted up. So we went on and somehow I totally said the wrong thing and I'm like "well I guess we could go back to your car and mess around" and I didn't mean that in a bad way at all, and she was like "whoa" and just stopped walking. I apologized like ten times and I told her I just meant talk, because I'm definitely not that kind of guy. So I guess we talked about different things and asked questions for a while, I even told her I didn't have any luck with girls which she found that hard to believe. People kept calling my phone and I just shut it off, even told my buddy I was in the middle of something and he'd have to call me back later. This girl was a definite ten, nothing else mattered but her. I recall at one point in time some guy walked by us and looked at her and it looked like a smart remark he made and I turned around and said to him "what the F did you say?!" not purposely it was like a reaction. She was like "wow overprotective much" and I told her I didn't know what came over me. So we walked on and eventually rode on some stage coaches in town for a small fee, it was very enjoyable. I recall telling her my hands were freezing, because they were and she offered to "warm them up". Later on in the ride I told her if she was cold she could scoot over next to me, and she told me the same so I did. I actually put my feet up in the seat across from me and felt like I was in heaven. When we got off I told her my hand was still cold, and she started holding my hand and we made our way back to her car. At some point in time on the way back we ended up hugging/cuddling I guess and looking at some stars, which i joked and told her they were satellites, eventually I told her she wins by default so she had nothing to worry about. So we go out and get something to eat, head back to her town house, I meet up with her roommates who are all heading off to a gay bar in town, so it would just be me and her. She decides she wants to watch a movie, by this time we were doing more than hugging, we were making out, she told me "you're not supposed to kiss on a first date", and I told her "rules are made to be broken" so we pretty much had no trouble making out from then on. Anyway.. we put on a movie, she fell asleep, cuddled up with me. Next thing I know her roommates get back and she asks them if I can stay the night, they all agree. And she told me even if they didn't she wouldn't have thrown me out. So she goes up to bed and I crash on the couch. Next morning I wake up when she walks in the room with a book in her hand.. and we head out to breakfast, which she pays for when I went to the wc, I think at this point in time she told me I had piercing eyes, which I took as an insult. She told me it was like I could see into her soul, and I wasn't just looking at her, and she would hide her eyes from time to time until we left the restaurant, but anyway she paid for the tab when I wasn't paying attention, told me that I paid for everything else she needed to pay for something. We got to her car made out some more, and decided to catch a flick later in the day, so we get to the theatre and she tells me she doesn't like to cuddle during films, but we ended up holding hands anyway. I don't think there was ever a time when she came up to me and held my hand, or wanted to make out with me, but she didn't object when I did. Maybe that's just how girls are. So after the film we get in the car and she says "well I gotta go now, after the movie you leave that was the deal" she had stuff she had to do around the house she told me and also she had to read something for work. Ironically a song came on the radio in her car with some lyrics like "let him stay" lol! Which I pointed out that it was clearly a subliminal message. So on the way back she looked at me and smiled, and told me I was cute and she thought she would keep me. I asked her if I could see her next weekend, and she said if she wasn't working she would like that. We made out some more and I left. I texted her a few times telling her what a great weekend I had, and basically I was so happy I was almost in tears. So I didn't call her today but she got on Facebook and I asked her how it was going, she said she was in a blah mood.. and I told her she was to awesome to be in a blah mood. Then I asked her if I came up on Sunday(which is currently her only day off) I would show her how to ride the motorbike, and she was like "I'm probably working sunday, I told you that, if not I would love that". So I told her i missed her today and she said she missed me too. Then basically said she was going to bed and got off.. About two days passed and I decided to call her and she never answered my voice mail, or the text I had left.. So I seen that she was on the dating site again, and felt she lost interest in me as she was talking to other guys so I dropped her this message which she read and I haven't heard anything yet:

 

"Ok so this has been eating away at me for the past two days. I figure I might have made you feel pressured or something, like I was pushing you into some kind of relationship. And totally not meaning for it to go that way. If you don't want anything serious that's totally cool. But I'd like to hang out with you more, and have fun around town. I know you mentioned you have commitment issues, I didn't ask the details of that, and perhaps that's why I don't understand, maybe you can explain that to me. I mean relationships are fine with me, just dating is cool as well. I'm just thinking maybe I scared you off lol.

 

So I'm just wondering where I went wrong. Did I say something or am I doing something that's bugging you. Let me know because I'd hate to stop hanging out with you over something like that. Because I know we were talking like every night, and now we're like not talking at all. I like you a lot you're really awesome in every way. I would hate to stop hanging out because you were under the impression I was trying to like push you into a relationship. I mean if you don't like me just say and I'll be gone forever and wont bug you any more."

 

She read it and said nothing, maybe I shouldn't have sent this message to her. So what do you guys make of this. This girl works from like 8am until 6pm monday through saturday. sometimes sunday even. I like this girl a lot, but she doesn't want anything serious and has committment issues, doesn't call/text me even email. Is it odd that she never like came up to me and kissed me, or anything? Should I pursue this further, and play on her terms? Do you think she cares about me? Appreciate any tips.

[pistachioboy]

Holy crap. You tell her you're cool with nothing serious and then tell her how much you like her in every way. You tell her you miss her after the first date. That's pretty intense.

 

I think you're probably going to get hurt here. But that's what you need at this point in your life. This needs to happen about 10 more times before you can train your emotions to not get the best of you.

 

That is to say that I doubt you're capable at this point in your life of having handled it differently. This one will slip away, but there are lots of other fish in the sea. Keep playing the field. Have lots of sex. It will get easier, I promise.

[meerkat stew]

Just going to be blunt and number some tips you may consider:

 

1. If you are rusty in dating, free-form dates aren't so good until you get some experience under your belt. Dinner/movie is bad, but there are lots of "go and do" type dates that take some of the conversational pressure off.

 

2. No talking about exes or prior relationships on first dates. In fact, no heavy topics at all, play off the environment, talk about what you are doing in the moment, convey information about yourself, but in an upbeat flirty, and most importantly -brief- way. Keep all conversation light and flirty.

 

3. No texting and Emailing back and forth during early dating. Call on the phone to ask them out for a specific time and place. Other than that, no contact. After several dates, a -tiny- bit of texting or phone chatting is ok, no more than a very few texts or 5 minutes of phone though. Save that for once an exclusive relationship is in place and even then sparingly.

 

4. Leave early and on a high note. No sleepover dates dragging into the next day (unless you are sleeping in her bed and having sex, then get up and leave early in the morning if not late at night). Show them a good time for a few hours, 3-5 max, then vamoose. Don't hang out even if they are begging you. If you have the type of life where extending a date into the next day is possible, consider changing your life and priorities.

 

5. Have more than one option. Don't focus on just one girl early on, focus on 3-5 and allocate time among them carefully with an eye towards weeding out.

 

6. Never ask a woman out for the next date while you are on a date. Take some time to reflect on whether -you- really want to ask her out again after the date and then call in a few days to ask out for the next date. Remember, you are only calling to ask out, not to chat.

 

7. Never send a begging type text or Email to a woman. Simply call when you are ready to ask her out. Leave one VM message. Give her 12-24 hours to call back, then call but don't leave a message. Depending on your feel, call up to 3 times, no more than that. If she is interested and worth your while she will return your call.

 

8. Don't take women at their word in the very early stages of dating, they are putting up lots of defensive smoke before they know whether they want to see you again. When she says "my last relationship made me commitmentphobic" do enough detective work to find out when that was. If she just broke up a LTR a week ago, move onto other options.

 

9. Never apologize for expressing a polite, respectful sexual interest in a woman. When you said "let's go back to the car and fool around," and she -feigns- (and that is exactly what she is doing) righteous indignation, use humor to deflect, "Oh, you've never kissed in a car before? you should try it sometime, it's really fun!" Never apologize unless you have said something truly over the line, but you aren't going to be saying anything like that I can tell, so don't worry about it. Just don't apologize.

 

10. Don't put them on a pedestal. It is obvious from your description of this girl that you have objectified her as some special creature. She is just a person, no better than you. Focus more on whether she is up to -your- standards than whether you are worthy of her.

[Sivok]

You came on way too strong and sounds like you almost fell in love with her on first sight. That essay was a huge mistake. You just showed her massive amounts of unhealthy obsession and insecurity. You lost her, bud

[Cracker Jack]

I also think you let her know a bit too much already. As silly as it may seem, you probably shouldn't have kept trying to make contact with her as much as you did. I can't say it was wrong of you, but that seems to be a rule or something in the dating world.

 

Not much you can do right now. If she contacts you back, tho, perhaps this'll get better for you. She's probably looking to date other people at this point.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Cracker Jack

[Norse]

So my next question is. How far do you go in 2 days time with someone. I mean I just did what I felt without THINKING, like I held her hand, made out and no further, because I knew further would have been bad and I wasn't ready for that because I didn't know her that well anyway.

[reservoirdog1]

I agree with the others -- you came on way too strong. I read your description of the date and started feeling uncomfortable, and I wasn't even there. And I'm a guy.

 

Re-read Meerkat's list of tips -- there's some very good advice there.

 

My gut is telling me that things are probably over with you and this girl -- you've demonstrated to her, very clearly, that your interest level in her is high, and probably higher than hers in you. As a result, you're not a challenge or a mystery to her anymore. She knows she could have you in a heartbeat, and that you'll take any scraps she throws you. If she throws you any more.

 

Your only hope is to not initiate any further communication with her, of any kind. If she contacts you, great -- but proceed cautiously, bearing Meerkat's tips in mind. If she doesn't contact you, sorry to say, you should probably chalk it up to an unfortunate dating lesson learned, and let it drop.

[Norse]

I recall the girl telling me her previous relationship was six months ago, and it had lasted for nine. So I think after everything in my first post I'm going to wait about a week and a half or two and just send her a casual text asking what she's up to, or perhaps I'll just call. Maybe I can restart this.

[Bobnesta]

I recall the girl telling me her previous relationship was six months ago, and it had lasted for nine. So I think after everything in my first post I'm going to wait about a week and a half or two and just send her a casual text asking what she's up to, or perhaps I'll just call. Maybe I can restart this.

 

In a word, no, you can't restart it. More importantly you don't want to. Take it from some dudes who've been around a few more years:

 

CHICKS DONT LIKE GROVELING AND ASSKISSERY! Don't apologize for ****, ever, period. She'll find out about your warm, sensitive side later on after you make her work through the gauntlet a little bit. Handle this **** now, while your young, because change becomes harder as we age. Not impossible, but just a bit more difficult.:cool:YOU are in control, not your libido, not your heart, stay strong in your MIND. Control that, and you'll have this licked in no time (and her too!)

[Norse]

So you're telling me I haven't completely blew my chances with her? Even after the message I sent?

[Bobnesta]

My bad...the last line, I'm referring to "her" as the next one you go after, and the one after her, and the...I'm already looking to the future for you, and it's bright, brother. Leave this disaster in the past. THIS ONE is DONE! I've done it too many times to count, no dating forums back when I was figuring **** out (and still am; it never ends). Women are constantly evolving and we have to adapt, or be left in the cold. She's dead to you now. Many, many, many, many hot girls out there without that gameplaying garbage. Your time is valuable....and for God's sakes, man, do not EVER drive 120 miles for a first date!! I mean it. You were cooked before you ever showed up, to be honest. The fact she got you to do that put here in control. Move on, and get better with the next one..

[meerkat stew]

no dating forums back when I was figuring **** out (and still am; it never ends).

 

Ain't it the truth!

[Norse]

So what I'm concerned with now is... how far should one go on a first date? Holding hands, kissing? beyond? what's acceptable?

 

And thanks for the advice everyone, I don't want to screw up anymore. Losing this 10 has opened my eyes.

[Sivok]

As far as your chemistry takes you. I generally wouldn't sleep with a girl on a first date though. Building some degree of physical comfort is fairly important, however. Try and get a kiss, but leave anything else for her to anticipate later

[Norse]

I think for my next move I will wait until around the 17th and then hit her up with perhaps a casual text like "hey are you doing anything this weekend?", perhaps some of these things fix themselves in time.

[reservoirdog1]

So what I'm concerned with now is... how far should one go on a first date? Holding hands, kissing? beyond? what's acceptable?

The question isn't what's "acceptable". You need to read the vibes between the two of you on a first date and act accordingly. Sometimes, kissing on a first date is called for. Sometimes it isn't.

 

The worst thing you can do, in my opinion, is push things further than the vibes indicate they should go at that time. Reading her body language is key in this. (If you're not sure how to do this, google it -- there are lots of sites that will tell you what you should be watching for.)

 

There's nothing wrong with NOT kissing on the first date. Your goal with a first date shouldn't be to kiss her. Your entire modus operandi on a first date should be very simple: GET HER INTERESTED IN A SECOND DATE. You accomplish that by being funny, charming, fun, an interesting person in terms of your work and leisure pursuits, interested in what she has to say but not hanging on her every word, and, while displaying physical interest in her, NOT conveying that you're in the midst of a dry spell and hoping to break it with her. You need to convey that you're interested in her, but also that you're a busy guy with lots of things going on in your life and if a second date doesn't result with her, you don't see it as the end of the world.

 

You need to make her want you. Remember, attraction isn't a choice. If she's not attracted to you, there's not a lot you can do to change that. If she is attracted to you, her body language will demonstrate that.

 

And, like Meerkat said, end the first date on a high note. Don't let the first date go on longer than it should; the moment it seems like it's at all "forced", start bringing it to a close. Leave her wanting more.

 

My situation with my current GF is a good illustration of this. We met online. Met up in person for the first date at about 8 pm, and parted ways at about 3 am. There were a couple of points where the date could have appropriately ended, and it would have, if she hadn't said "can we go for coffee" and later "can we go for a walk". She didn't WANT it to end. When we finally parted ways, it was with a quick peck on the lips and a hug, nothing more, and then a quick goodbye.

 

To be honest, I was pretty sure she was into me, but there was a little lingering doubt because of the quick goodbye. Then the next morning I got a text from her saying she had an amazing time, and asking what I was up to the following weekend. The next date involved a lot of making out. The third date involved dinner at my place and you can figure out the rest. Turns out, the quick goodbyes are just "her thing". And here we are, almost three months from the first date, and things are going great.

 

So, to recap:

 

1. Goal of the first date: make her want a second date. Do this by being interesting, funny, and charming. Build her interest level in you.

2. End the first date on a high note, and leave her wanting more.

3. Convey interest in her, without conveying desperation.

 

Good luck mang...

[Imajerk17]

Intense. You definitely came across extremely needy at the end of your narrative, and it scared her away.

 

1. Asking her to stay some more after spending almost 24 hours with you was extremely needy. You would have been better off ending the date (as in *you* saying it was time for you to go, instead of *her* kicking you out after the movie, as what happened) after breakfast actually.

 

2. That message telling her that you were so happy you could cry = extremely needy = ewww = girl running away. After reading that sentence right there in your post I already was pretty sure that she was going to pull a disappearing act. Lesson for you: Women are the ones who gush, my friend.

 

I know you are hurting, but come on too strong to someone like that and they will run. On the bright side, that you managed to get as far with her as you did (making out, getting to spend the night at her place) means that you have a lot going for you already. You'll meet someone else.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Imajerk17

[Imajerk17]

In a word, no, you can't restart it. More importantly you don't want to. Take it from some dudes who've been around a few more years:

 

CHICKS DONT LIKE GROVELING AND ASSKISSERY! Don't apologize for ****, ever, period. She'll find out about your warm, sensitive side later on after you make her work through the gauntlet a little bit. Handle this **** now, while your young, because change becomes harder as we age. Not impossible, but just a bit more difficult.:cool:YOU are in control, not your libido, not your heart, stay strong in your MIND. Control that, and you'll have this licked in no time (and her too!)

 

+1. I agree.

[Norse]

If a girl did what you did on the first date, she would be labelled crazy

 

Or right up my alley.

 

Well I figured I've completely blown this one up so it can't get any worse, she's not talking to me now. So I'm just sending the casual text "what's up?", how are you?" etc. I may try calling not sure. I think I screwed up when I sent the essay. At least before that she was talking. But I freaked and sent an essay to her. Very bad move. Stupid stupid...

 

I've never taken all of these things into consideration. Like I never knew there was a game and a psychology to dating.