zengirl Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I think there's a lot of overlap between these types, and I'm not really sure which we're talking about either. But actually I've found that artsy dudes and nerdy introverted guys seem to like similar girls. The guys who've liked me have been nerdy but also a bit more confident and mainstream. I only date men who are assertive at their core. I'm never sure what to make of the word "confident" because people use it differently. I think you and I have different versions of mainstream. I remember you saying everybody knew who The Smiths were. I think this is from you being in the NE, so far as I know. I'm from the South. Mainstream in the South is. . . definitely not intellectual in any way, shape, or form. It's college football and beer and hunting and God and all the worst slapstick "funny" movies and either pop music/country music/or things like Journey. Not saying they're all bad. Think Finn (pre-Glee club) or Bart (sans gay son) from GLEE. Nice enough guys lots of the time, but not at all my type.
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) I really wish more girls like "nerds." And even if they did, they still only like the ones that are tall and/or good looking. need very clear signals of interest and intent. That is true. Most guys who are nerds, lack fully developed social skills. Since trying to read a girl is hard enough for a normal guy, nerdy guys are basically left clueless. also more passive and less masculine than I would have liked. The few guys I dated like this always tried to put me in the driver's seat, which I hated. I prefer more of a balance, even leaning toward the guy having very slight dominance. Well duh. Most nerdy guys lack confidence. It's pretty much a standard. The lack of confidence may also lead to thinking that the girl is not interested when she really is and that he doesn't have a chance so he wont' ask her out. Though I've taken many steps to become more assertive and lead more, the results so far have been disappointing. I think the former type is usually looking for pretty straightforward qualities, while the latter is more likely to be chasing some mythical perfect woman. Makes sense because the former is more experienced, while the latter is used to pining away for women and building them up in his head. He doesn't have enough relationship experience with women to zone in on the right traits, so he places an overemphasis on certain qualities while neglecting to appreciate others. That's a good observation. One with little relationship experience really has no idea what to look for in a girl. He has no about the less obvious negatives about her or what her true qualities are. He may also place women on pedestals thinking that they are better than him or something to worship. When/if he does find a "perfect woman" he gets absolutely crushed when things don't go as he would have liked. And the bitterness grows. Edited August 19, 2010 by somedude81
zengirl Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I really wish more girls like "nerds." And even if they did, they still only like the ones that are tall and/or good looking I don't care about tall so much. Good looks? Of course. They have to be my version of cute, at least.
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I don't care about tall so much. Good looks? Of course. They have to be my version of cute, at least. Sure you do. You wouldn't date a guy you'd consider short, would you? How many guys, about what percentage out there would be your version of cute? For all I know, every girl I've ever been interested in could have rejected me simply because I'm only 5'6. Of course it's not something that I can confirm or deny.
zengirl Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Sure you do. You wouldn't date a guy you'd consider short, would you? How many guys, about what percentage out there would be your version of cute? For all I know, every girl I've ever been interested in could have rejected me simply because I'm only 5'6. Of course it's not something that I can confirm or deny. Ah, I see what you mean. I suppose I wouldn't date a guy shorter than me. I'm 5'5'' but I'm not absolutely sure I've dated anyone who was 5'6''. I'm rotten at judging height. I definitely dated a guy (long-term) who I was taller than in some heels, but I don't believe "heel height" is real height. But I hear so many fellows who are 5'8'' or even 5'10'' rail about their height and I find it silly. I understand your frustration at 5'6'' since many women are at the same height or taller.
shadowplay Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I only date men who are assertive at their core. I'm never sure what to make of the word "confident" because people use it differently. I think you and I have different versions of mainstream. I remember you saying everybody knew who The Smiths were. I think this is from you being in the NE, so far as I know. I'm from the South. Mainstream in the South is. . . definitely not intellectual in any way, shape, or form. It's college football and beer and hunting and God and all the worst slapstick "funny" movies and either pop music/country music/or things like Journey. Not saying they're all bad. Think Finn (pre-Glee club) or Bart (sans gay son) from GLEE. Nice enough guys lots of the time, but not at all my type. Yeah, based on your definition of mainstream, we do have different understandings of the word. Guys like you describe aren't even in my raydar. But even where I live it's hard to find guys who are intellectual as well as being masculine, assertive and "normal." I wish I could be more precise than that. It's hard to define.
dispatch3d Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Sure you do. You wouldn't date a guy you'd consider short, would you? How many guys, about what percentage out there would be your version of cute? For all I know, every girl I've ever been interested in could have rejected me simply because I'm only 5'6. Of course it's not something that I can confirm or deny. man, zengirl is in the vast minority of women just so you know..... To other other woman in this thread, I would build what you want in a guy not on what other woman tell you. Decide for yourself what you are looking for and stick to it.
shadowplay Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Yeah, based on your definition of mainstream, we do have different understandings of the word. Guys like you describe aren't even in my raydar. But even where I live it's hard to find guys who are intellectual as well as being masculine, assertive and "normal." I wish I could be more precise than that. It's hard to define. radar. I need to get some sleep...
zengirl Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Yeah, based on your definition of mainstream, we do have different understandings of the word. Guys like you describe aren't even in my raydar. But even where I live it's hard to find guys who are intellectual as well as being masculine, assertive and "normal." I wish I could be more precise than that. It's hard to define. Also there are alarming numbers of people in the country who can name more members of N Sync and such (Did I even spell that right?) than former Presidents. People are not as smart as I'd like, on average, as there has been a thread of rampant anti-intellectualism in American culture for awhile now. Not everyone, of course. I guess the only difference in my list from yours here is that I don't care so much about "masculine." (Most fellows I've dated have been that in some more traditional ways and all have been it in the only way that actually matters -- males so far as sex and biology goes.) I don't feel the need to seek it. I feel every man is a man and every woman is a woman. End-stop. I'm attracted to self-fixers, as I am one as well (people who examine their own patterns and look for active solutions), so they don't tend to be nerds who wallow in self-pity, which seems to be the dysfunctional ones y'all mention. I'm not into anyone who wallows in self-pity. I find plenty of assertive, nerdy, cute fellows even in the South. I don't even know what "normal" means perse. I like some things everybody likes (or many people like) and some things nobody else likes. I guess I like people who are the same. I don't like anybody who tries too hard to be normal or quirky.
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) Ah, I see what you mean. I suppose I wouldn't date a guy shorter than me. I'm 5'5'' but I'm not absolutely sure I've dated anyone who was 5'6''. I'm rotten at judging height. I definitely dated a guy (long-term) who I was taller than in some heels, but I don't believe "heel height" is real height. But I hear so many fellows who are 5'8'' or even 5'10'' rail about their height and I find it silly. I understand your frustration at 5'6'' since many women are at the same height or taller. Exactly. So you've dated one guy that was shorter than you in heals. One guy 5'8 or shorter. I'm mostly fine with my height, the issue is that it seems that the vast majority of women are not. One thing I keep hearing is that women will not date a guy shorter than them. So when I see an attractive girl and notice that she's an inch or two taller than me, it breaks my hearing knowing that I will never have a chance with her simply because of tall I am. Then you bring up heals and any girl at least 5'4 will be taller than me in heels. What makes it even worse is that I'm a white guy and primarily interested in white girls. If I was Asian or Mexican my height would be fine and the girls of those races would be OK with my height. But as a white male, being 5'6 is unacceptable. BTW you really can't begin to understand my frustration. For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in. I have no idea why, only educated guesses. When I don't know what's wrong, it's hard to fix it. Edited August 19, 2010 by somedude81
Green Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Exactly. So you've dated one guy that was shorter than you in heals. One guy 5'8 or shorter. I'm mostly fine with my height, the issue is that it seems that the vast majority of women are not. One thing I keep hearing is that women will not date a guy shorter than them. So when I see an attractive girl and notice that she's an inch or two taller than me, it breaks my hearing knowing that I will never have a chance with her simply because of tall I am. Then you bring up heals and any girl at least 5'4 will be taller than me in heels. What makes it even worse is that I'm a white guy and primarily interested in white girls. If I was Asian or Mexican my height would be fine and the girls of those races would be OK with my height. But as a white male, being 5'6 is unacceptable. BTW you really can't begin to understand my frustration. For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in. I have no idea why, only educated guesses. When I don't know what's wrong, it's hard to fix it. The guy who was shorter was probably 5'9 or something. He would slouch or just didn't tower over her so she considered him shorter.
shadowplay Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Exactly. So you've dated one guy that was shorter than you in heals. One guy 5'8 or shorter. I'm mostly fine with my height, the issue is that it seems that the vast majority of women are not. One thing I keep hearing is that women will not date a guy shorter than them. So when I see an attractive girl and notice that she's an inch or two taller than me, it breaks my hearing knowing that I will never have a chance with her simply because of tall I am. Then you bring up heals and any girl at least 5'4 will be taller than me in heels. What makes it even worse is that I'm a white guy and primarily interested in white girls. If I was Asian or Mexican my height would be fine and the girls of those races would be OK with my height. But as a white male, being 5'6 is unacceptable. BTW you really can't begin to understand my frustration. For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in. I have no idea why, only educated guesses. When I don't know what's wrong, it's hard to fix it. Have you tried approaching really short women? Like 5'0-5'2" range? Maybe they'd give you more of a chance.
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Have you tried approaching really short women? Like 5'0-5'2" range? Maybe they'd give you more of a chance. How many women are there in the 5-5'2 range? The average female height is 5'4. Limiting myself to shorter women is horrible idea. Right now my only limiter is that I won't pursue a girl above 5'8. BTW the last girl I had a date with was 5'2. Though I really have no idea if I even had a chance with her.
zengirl Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Exactly. So you've dated one guy that was shorter than you in heals. One guy 5'8 or shorter. I'm mostly fine with my height, the issue is that it seems that the vast majority of women are not. One thing I keep hearing is that women will not date a guy shorter than them. So when I see an attractive girl and notice that she's an inch or two taller than me, it breaks my hearing knowing that I will never have a chance with her simply because of tall I am. Then you bring up heals and any girl at least 5'4 will be taller than me in heels. What makes it even worse is that I'm a white guy and primarily interested in white girls. If I was Asian or Mexican my height would be fine and the girls of those races would be OK with my height. But as a white male, being 5'6 is unacceptable. BTW you really can't begin to understand my frustration. For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in. I have no idea why, only educated guesses. When I don't know what's wrong, it's hard to fix it. You're misconstruing some of my points a bit, but I'm not going to get into them, mostly because they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I get that you're frustrated, and it's reasonable to be frustrated with the experience you've stated.
USMCHokie Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Also there are alarming numbers of people in the country who can name more members of N Sync and such (Did I even spell that right?) than former Presidents. People are not as smart as I'd like, on average, as there has been a thread of rampant anti-intellectualism in American culture for awhile now. Not everyone, of course. I must ask...what is intellect to you...? What would make someone intelligent enough for you to date...?
dispatch3d Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Exactly. So you've dated one guy that was shorter than you in heals. One guy 5'8 or shorter. I'm mostly fine with my height, the issue is that it seems that the vast majority of women are not. One thing I keep hearing is that women will not date a guy shorter than them. So when I see an attractive girl and notice that she's an inch or two taller than me, it breaks my hearing knowing that I will never have a chance with her simply because of tall I am. Then you bring up heals and any girl at least 5'4 will be taller than me in heels. What makes it even worse is that I'm a white guy and primarily interested in white girls. If I was Asian or Mexican my height would be fine and the girls of those races would be OK with my height. But as a white male, being 5'6 is unacceptable. BTW you really can't begin to understand my frustration. For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in. I have no idea why, only educated guesses. When I don't know what's wrong, it's hard to fix it. your biggest problem isn't being short. One I notice here is that you are trying to pass THEIR screen. IT SHOULD be the other way around. They are to TALL for your normal tastes. So if you think a woman's going to give you **** about being short, give her **** about being tall. "Hummm.... my last girlfriend was a lot shorter than you." cue feminism hate ;-)
EasyHeart Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I've found this thread to be very interesting, but I have a question for all of the "bitter" men: How old are you? If you're still under 30, I can tell you that it gets better. I did okay with women in my teens and twenties, but certainly nothing to brag about. But when I hit my early thirties, I apparently became much more attractive to women. Hopefully the same will happen to you. I think male-female relationships are much more complicated for people in their teens and twenties than they were 20 years ago. Back in those olden days, if you liked a girl, you asked her on a date. She said "Yes" or "No" and you knew where you stood. There was no hanging out or hooking up or FWBs. In fact, male-female friendships were pretty much non-existent, so boundaries were much clearer. We certainly didn't have to put up with "Let's be friends", so that we could feel rejected over and over again every time we saw our "friend". There was also no such thing as a "relationship" and we weren't inundated with books and articles telling us how perfect our relationships were supposed to be. Casual sex was rare. It's not that we didn't try -- we tried everything we could think of -- but women were very selective about who they slept with, and there was still a social stigma attached to casual sex. (And before anyone starts screaming "double standard!" it was other women who would call you a "slut" for sleeping around, not men). I remember reading an interesting article a while back (sorry, I couldn't find it again) that suggested that women today are much more open-minded about casual sex, the result is that the 10-20% of the most physically attractive men have a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners (because people looking for casual sex are primarily drawn to physical attractiveness), while the remaining men have a very limited supply of interested women. I don't know if that's true (or what the real percentages are), but it would explain why many men feel bitter and why many women complain about men not being willing to commit: The men with few opportunities are bitter about it, and the men with a large number of opportunities have no reason to limit themselves to one woman.
ViciousViolet Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 How many women are there in the 5-5'2 range? The average female height is 5'4. Limiting myself to shorter women is horrible idea. Right now my only limiter is that I won't pursue a girl above 5'8. BTW the last girl I had a date with was 5'2. Though I really have no idea if I even had a chance with her. I'm 5'1 and would love to find a guy closer to my height. For some odd reason I always get "stuck" with the guys in the 6'3 and taller range. Don't ask me how this happens. I'd like to be able to actually dance with a guy without it being awkward.
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I'm 5'1 and would love to find a guy closer to my height. For some odd reason I always get "stuck" with the guys in the 6'3 and taller range. Don't ask me how this happens. I'd like to be able to actually dance with a guy without it being awkward. The more you post about yourself, the more interesting you become. Educated, likes to volunteer, likes nerdy guys only 5'1 (not a bad thing), no tats, don't smoke, dresses decently, not overweight and packing more than a handful. Heh, any chance you'll have business in California in the near future
ViciousViolet Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 The more you post about yourself, the more interesting you become. Educated, likes to volunteer, likes nerdy guys only 5'1 (not a bad thing), no tats, don't smoke, dresses decently, not overweight and packing more than a handful. Heh, any chance you'll have business in California in the near future Um...just to clarify, I'm sure you're talking boobs. I don't want people thinking I have a weenis, and a big one at that:laugh:. Plus you said you're not really feeling the brown girls, which is fine but well I'm not the fairest in the bunch;).
Cracker Jack Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 your biggest problem isn't being short. One I notice here is that you are trying to pass THEIR screen. IT SHOULD be the other way around. They are to TALL for your normal tastes. So if you think a woman's going to give you **** about being short, give her **** about being tall. "Hummm.... my last girlfriend was a lot shorter than you." cue feminism hate ;-) But, if the girl you're interested in is about 5'1" or 5'3" at the most, and doesn't feel comfortable (Happened to me a few times) about your height, despite you being taller than her, then what? And I know ALL women are not like this--but in my experiences, without even bringing up height at all, nor having it on my mind, it came up as an issue. It sorta hurts, tho, because I don't have control over it. Not bitter or anything, just confused as to how I can get around this if it happens again. It's kinda put a damper on my, um, confidence.
ViciousViolet Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 But, if the girl you're interested in is about 5'1" or 5'3" at the most, and doesn't feel comfortable (Happened to me a few times) about your height, despite you being taller than her, then what? And I know ALL women are not like this--but in my experiences, without even bringing up height at all, nor having it on my mind, it came up as an issue. It sorta hurts, tho, because I don't have control over it. Not bitter or anything, just confused as to how I can get around this if it happens again. It's kinda put a damper on my, um, confidence. I get really uncomfortable when I hear women talk about needing a guy over a certain height, which is usually well above the height of your average male. I understand a woman wanting a guy taller than herself, but I don't understand needing a guy to be almost a foot taller than you. Does this make him a better mate? Honestly, it is their loss. I know that sounds cliche but it is true. Some of these women who discriminate against great guys because they aren't super tall are the same ones who will be alone years later. It is then that they'll drop their height requirements but guys like you will have moved on (hopefully).
somedude81 Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Um...just to clarify, I'm sure you're talking boobs. I don't want people thinking I have a weenis, and a big one at that:laugh:. ROFL!!! My mistake, for thinking black people were bigger than average Plus you said you're not really feeling the brown girls, which is fine but well I'm not the fairest in the bunch;). Huh, I never said I wasn't interested in brown girls. Check out my posts in the dating outside your race thread and my most recent post in the boobies size thread.
PJKino Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 I get really uncomfortable when I hear women talk about needing a guy over a certain height, which is usually well above the height of your average male. I understand a woman wanting a guy taller than herself, but I don't understand needing a guy to be almost a foot taller than you. Does this make him a better mate? Honestly, it is their loss. I know that sounds cliche but it is true. Some of these women who discriminate against great guys because they aren't super tall are the same ones who will be alone years later. It is then that they'll drop their height requirements but guys like you will have moved on (hopefully). Plus you have to add in women now count their hele height as there real heights.. If there the same height or slightly taller then guys in 4 or 5 inch heels they cant date him.. We all have preferences but male height or lack of seems to be the biggest physical dealbreaker in the dating world..
ViciousViolet Posted August 19, 2010 Posted August 19, 2010 Plus you have to add in women now count their hele height as there real heights.. If there the same height or slightly taller then guys in 4 or 5 inch heels they cant date him.. We all have preferences but male height or lack of seems to be the biggest physical dealbreaker in the dating world.. You're absolutely right. I understand the allure of height to women, but I don't get how some women can complain about the fascination with boob size but then turn around a only chase after guys who are 6'1 and above. Yet I am in no position to talk because most men are taller than me, even when I'm wearing heels:(.
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