Why are single men generally more bitter than single women?

[shadowplay]

Wow. How incredibly... short sighted and rude.

 

Overweight women deserve and get attention too. Obviously, more so than many thin women.

 

Where did I ever say they don't "deserve" attention? Of course they do. I've just almost never seen it happen.

[kdark]

I have a profile up on OKC and I've gotten a fair number of messages from guys, but I think it's just because my pictures are somehow very flattering. I tried to make them realistic, but inevitably I seem to look better in photos than in person. Maybe that girl is the same way.

 

That's more messages than 90% of the men get.

 

I'm scared to meet any of these guys in person, because I know they'll be disappointed and reject me.

 

I've considered things as drastic as plastic surgery. I don't think I"m bad looking, but I know I'm not up to snuff according to male standards and I don't want to live a life of singlehood.

 

Now your insecurity is really starting to show. You have options, but are too afraid of rejection to pursue them. That's all on you. Men don't have nearly as many options as you do, but you are filtering them out because of your own fears.

 

Also there was another user who used to post on here. I can't remember her name, but she often mentioned the fact that she never got asked out and she was quite pretty (I saw her pics). She was 23ish and had only dated a couple of guys, who ended up rejecting her.

 

Anyway, my point is that it's not as easy for all women as you'd like to believe. I think the only women who have it easy are attractive ones.

 

Her name was Isolde I believe. I saw her picture too, and she was quite attractive actually. Like you, I always thought her problem wasn't that she wasn't getting dates, it was because she wasn't getting dates from people that met her standard. And like you she was always bitter about not getting chatted up in real life. Like another poster said, if you were to go to a club or a bar, and as you are seeing happen to you online, guys will chat you up even if you are average.

[somedude81]

I live in the Northeast in a town that has a lot of young people in their twenties and thirties.

 

Wow, I never see overweight girls getting attention around here. Are you from a different planet?

And now I'm starting to understand what's going on. The culture you live in, even though it's still the US is very different from where I'm in.

 

I think both of us should switch locations. I'll move to where the girls aren't getting attention and you can move to where they are

 

Where I live, the competition is ridiculous and the girls are having the time of their life with so many guys after them. Eventually a girl gets so much attention that she can think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore a guy once she doesn't want to deal with him anymore. There isn't even a need to send a text, "Sorry it's not going to work out, have a nice life."

[Star Gazer]

Where did I ever say they don't "deserve" attention? Of course they do. I've just almost never seen it happen.

 

You asked if the person lived on another PLANET, as though no overweight woman would ever get attention. A little much, don't you think??

[Mad Max]

It's hard to pinpoint an exact reason, but single men and women are treated differently. Single women are considered independent and strong where as single men are not thought of so highly. I wouldn't say single men are more bitter, but I think they do get some flack for being single(at least at a more middle age) where as women don't.

[nddb]

This thread is incredibly depressing.

 

I wonder if most of us are buying into what others define as the standard for beauty and relationship-deserving and are generally unhappy because that standard cannot be reached by the majority of flawed human beings.

 

I see this in married couples too. One partner gets bored because the 24/7 tingling feeling is gone and the kids get tossed under the divorce bus.

 

I don't see men as more bitter than women. I see a handful of men always trolling and attacking women--sad for them. I see some women rising to the bait predictably--sad for them too.

 

Wanna make me go home and cook the wife a nice dinner and then hug her tight. It's a damn insane world out there.

[TouchedByViolet]

 

I've considered things as drastic as plastic surgery. I don't think I"m bad looking, but I know I'm not up to snuff according to male standards and I don't want to live a life of singlehood.

 

 

I've seen your pic and you are highly attractive, at least a 7. Feel free to post a pic of you on your worst day, with the least photogenic pose you can make and I'm sure you still look great.

 

Your challenge is not your looks, this I promise you.

[zengirl]

I don't think they are. I just think that bitterness is more likely to drive a male to LS and consistently thwarted but persistent hope is more likely to drive a female to LS. I think this place shows very little about the population at large.

 

"Dating on easy mode" Interesting idea. Really, it depends on what you want. Many women get just as frustrated by casual dating as men do -- "Why doesn't he ask me out?" they wonder and they feel they have to wait for fellows to approach them or else they'll face some undue judgment. I disagree with this and believe very strongly in approaching men and showing interest if you're interested. Rejection isn't really that scary. But rejecting people, to me, is almost harder. If I had it my way, women would traditionally go up to men, and then I'd never have to tell very many fellows, "No." Honestly. And I'd still go up to the fellows I wanted to. But the world is the way it is, and I do have more fellows come up to me than I'd ever want to date, and I have to sort it out tactfully and reduce cognitive dissonance about rejecting them or even being forceful about it if they jerkishly persist too much. And many women deal with way more cognitive dissonance than I do about dating because they aren't as comfortable asserting themselves and approaching men. (Granted, approaching men is nowhere near the same as approaching women. It just isn't. We are socialized different, and the way I approach a man is probably still less direct than most men approach.)

 

It's hard to pinpoint an exact reason, but single men and women are treated differently. Single women are considered independent and strong where as single men are not thought of so highly. I wouldn't say single men are more bitter, but I think they do get some flack for being single(at least at a more middle age) where as women don't.

 

Interesting. Stereotypically and historically, an aging single man is a bachelor and an aging single woman a spinster (the woman much more to be pitied), so you've said your perception is completely the opposite today. I find this fascinating.

[Shakz]

Finding a woman I know is single hard and approching her when there's so many other males around makes it that much harder.

 

I'm anything but charming.

 

I find you charming. You are self-effacing and that's always charming. Give yourself some credit, man. You've got a lot more going for you than you suspect. Be courageous. I believe you have courage too. What could happen, mate? What's the worst that could happen? Don't worry about those other fools, they're just as scared as you.

[TheBigQuestion]

What I find most interesting about this thread is that the female with apparently among the worst luck/skill dating on this board (by her own admission), shadowplay, is still getting more messages from men on OKCupid than about 5 or 6 other guys are getting responses from women. This leads me to believe that women certainly are deluded when they say they have it just as hard as men do. I firmly believe that in the dating game, women hold many, many more cards than men do.

 

However, this really does not make me feel as bitter and cynical about women as most of these other guys. In fact, I'm not bitter at all. I haven't seriously dated a girl in three years, and that started in high school out of sheer luck. I made one other attempt at a relationship about 18 months ago. It lasted about 3 months, stopped going anywhere, and I was crushed by it, but I still never externalized that disappointment and anguish onto other women. The majority of my childhood and adolescence consisted of me being physically unremarkable, woefully unathletic, and socially marginalized. Most guys I knew had their first kiss in middle school. Mine didn't happen until I was 17.

 

Now, as far as sex goes, I've had a decent amount of partners for a 23 year old male (eight), but I'm willing to admit that some of these were mistakes, i.e. about 3 of them were unattractive enough where I would definitely not gladly parade them around with me in front of my social circle and feel comfortable about it. All this has proven to me is that my standards for FWB/casual sex/ONS are far lower than my standards for a relationship. Of these 8 girls, and maybe a few more, I could've gotten into a relationship with most of them just for the sake of having one. The bottom line is, I wasn't attracted to any of them to an acceptable degree in terms of physicality nor personality.

 

Even if I've had marginally more success with women than some guys in this thread, I'm still not a shining example of a ladies' man.

 

What I see a lot of in this thread are guys like Warlord saying over and over again, "All you need to do is not be fat and not completely rude 24/7 and I'd date you." What the hell kind of standard is this? How lowly do you have to think of yourself where these are the only requirements you actually have for a date? Having NO standards makes you BEHAVE like someone with no standards, and someone with no standards will have no value in the eyes of a woman.

[Mad Max]

Overall, I do believe that women have it easier in dating. Notice I said dating and not relationships. It's the same IMO with relationships, but women have it easier in dating. Men are more likely to approach women than the other way around(though it's slowly changing), women get sex easier, and also get dates easier. Any woman that's slightly above average looking will get hit on and on online dating sites, will get plenty of messages. Men have to be pretty good looking to get the same perks.

[TheBigQuestion]

Overall, I do believe that women have it easier in dating. Notice I said dating and not relationships. It's the same IMO with relationships, but women have it easier in dating. Men are more likely to approach women than the other way around(though it's slowly changing), women get sex easier, and also get dates easier. Any woman that's slightly above average looking will get hit on and on online dating sites, will get plenty of messages. Men have to be pretty good looking to get the same perks.

 

I agree that this is reality. For whatever reason, it really doesn't get to me that much. Why is this true for me but not true for so many others?

[zengirl]

What I find most interesting about this thread is that the female with apparently among the worst luck/skill dating on this board (by her own admission), shadowplay, is still getting more messages from men on OKCupid than about 5 or 6 other guys are getting responses from women. This leads me to believe that women certainly are deluded when they say they have it just as hard as men do. I firmly believe that in the dating game, women hold many, many more cards than men do.

 

However, this really does not make me feel as bitter and cynical about women as most of these other guys. In fact, I'm not bitter at all. I haven't seriously dated a girl in three years, and that started in high school out of sheer luck. I made one other attempt at a relationship about 18 months ago. It lasted about 3 months, stopped going anywhere, and I was crushed by it, but I still never externalized that disappointment and anguish onto other women. The majority of my childhood and adolescence consisted of me being physically unremarkable, woefully unathletic, and socially marginalized. Most guys I knew had their first kiss in middle school. Mine didn't happen until I was 17.

 

Now, as far as sex goes, I've had a decent amount of partners for a 23 year old male (eight), but I'm willing to admit that some of these were mistakes, i.e. about 3 of them were unattractive enough where I would definitely not gladly parade them around with me in front of my social circle and feel comfortable about it. All this has proven to me is that my standards for FWB/casual sex/ONS are far lower than my standards for a relationship. Of these 8 girls, and maybe a few more, I could've gotten into a relationship with most of them just for the sake of having one. The bottom line is, I wasn't attracted to any of them to an acceptable degree in terms of physicality nor personality.

 

Even if I've had marginally more success with women than some guys in this thread, I'm still not a shining example of a ladies' man.

 

What I see a lot of in this thread are guys like Warlord saying over and over again, "All you need to do is not be fat and not completely rude 24/7 and I'd date you." What the hell kind of standard is this? How lowly do you have to think of yourself where these are the only requirements you actually have for a date? Having NO standards makes you BEHAVE like someone with no standards, and someone with no standards will have no value in the eyes of a woman.

 

If you view it as a numbers game --- number of people approaching us --- women have it easier. End-stop. The comments saying it's not that simple come because many women don't view even casual dating this way. We don't simply want to be approached loads. In fact, I'd rather not be approached at all than be approached by men I'm not interested in! This likely seems odd to you, but it's just two different sides of a coin.

[Blade Runner]

OP,

 

You said that you're an attractive woman. You get hit on. You get messaged. You go on dates. The reason you haven't found somebody, it seems, is because you can't find someone who gels with your personality AND fits your level of a really attractive guy. No real reason to be bitter there. Maybe a little frustrated and confused. (But seriously, there are other issues on the level of a bitter male...you just made a whole thread about a guy you don't even feel any attraction towards).

 

The frustrated and bitter men you're talking about most likely never, ever get messaged on these dating sites, never get hit on when they're out on the streets, women don't call them back, and laugh at them behind their backs. Maybe not that extreme but you know as well as I do that none of these men get the level of attraction you get. Some of these men have never even had a girlfriend, had sex, or been approached in years.

 

Now, of course, they've probably got a lot more work they could be doing, but try digging yourself out of a really deep hole that's just been getting deeper for years. That's tough.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Blade Runner

[zengirl]

If you view it as a numbers game --- number of people approaching us --- women have it easier. End-stop. The comments saying it's not that simple come because many women don't view even casual dating this way. We don't simply want to be approached loads. In fact, I'd rather not be approached at all than be approached by men I'm not interested in! This likely seems odd to you, but it's just two different sides of a coin.

 

P.S. to my message(edited too late)

 

This does not mean I get "upset" when a man who's not my cuppa approaches me, if he's respectful and takes a no, of course, but it is a bummer. I understand that a fellow (or a gal) cannot know what another person is thinking, so those men absolutely should approach gals, including myself. I'm not in any way saying that's bad. . . just that it's not like I'm gleefully laughing and proud over here when I get approached by the fellow and reject him. In fact, it used to make me feel pretty bad about myself, just as rejection makes some people feel badly about themselves.

[TheBigQuestion]

If you view it as a numbers game --- number of people approaching us --- women have it easier. End-stop. The comments saying it's not that simple come because many women don't view even casual dating this way. We don't simply want to be approached loads. In fact, I'd rather not be approached at all than be approached by men I'm not interested in! This likely seems odd to you, but it's just two different sides of a coin.

 

It really doesn't seem that odd to me, but I'm sure you understand why a lot of guys do find that odd. A lot of men would kill to be approached by a decent amount of women on a regular basis. I guess the reason I don't find it odd is because I've basically acted more "like a girl" in this respect; I've probably rejected about as many girls as I've accepted when it comes to any kind of sexual activity, and I've rejected basically everyone when it came to them being relationship material. Still though, maybe the fact that I am able to do this has something to do with the fact that, even when things don't go the way I plan, I don't start externalizing my bitterness and anguish on women as a whole?

 

And to be completely honest, I had no idea that this "bitter man" phenomenon actually existed until I started posting on LS. I can count on three fingers the number of male virgins I know in my age range, and maybe on one hand those who have never had a girlfriend. Virtually every guy I know has rejected numerous advances from women at some time or another.

Edited August 17, 2010 by TheBigQuestion

[zengirl]

It really doesn't seem that odd to me, but I'm sure you understand why a lot of guys do find that odd. A lot of men would kill to be approached by a decent amount of women on a regular basis. I guess the reason I don't find it odd is because I've basically acted more "like a girl" in this respect; I've probably rejected about as many girls as I've accepted when it comes to any kind of sexual activity, and I've rejected basically everyone when it came to them being relationship material. Still though, maybe the fact that I am able to do this has something to do with the fact that, even when things don't go the way I plan, I don't start externalizing my bitterness and anguish on women as a whole?

 

I think bitterness is mostly just another form of self-hatred. Constant rejection in an unhealthy person can lead to such a thing, sure. But so can constantly being approached by aggressive jerks (I'm not talking about guys of any quality/looks/etc. . . I'm talking about the guys who get angry at you if you say "No" politely, and this does happen). I've seen that happen with girls too. Really, nobody is "sheltered" from bad experiences and everyone can choose whether or not to attack themselves and others and become bitter and angry, or just go on being a happy, healthy person.

 

That said, I don't believe men are, on average, more bitter. Perhaps the men here, but I think that's just the difference in communication. Most men I know would find it silly to take the time to communicate their general ideas about people and relationships to strangers on an internet forum. Men with a complaint are much more likely to do so, I think, whereas women just jabber on about this stuff, more, on average. (All vast generalizations that do not apply to everyone, but it's hard not to generalize when someone starts a thread with this title.)

[nddb]

P.S. to my message(edited too late)

 

This does not mean I get "upset" when a man who's not my cuppa approaches me, if he's respectful and takes a no, of course, but it is a bummer. I understand that a fellow (or a gal) cannot know what another person is thinking, so those men absolutely should approach gals, including myself. I'm not in any way saying that's bad. . . just that it's not like I'm gleefully laughing and proud over here when I get approached by the fellow and reject him. In fact, it used to make me feel pretty bad about myself, just as rejection makes some people feel badly about themselves.

 

I agree. I have sisters and one of them never got over a previous love relationship. Every guy that approaches her comes up short one way or another relative to her ex. At least that's her current mode of analysis.

 

Looking at her, one would never know that but a guy can be <insert your most suave movie star here> and still got no chance.

 

Men shouldn't take rejections personally. Any guy involved with my sister (assuming she's interested) right now will pay for the ex's sins for a while. May be you just dodged the bullet when she turned you down. Smile, thank her and keep her contact handy for later, and keep moving.

 

The one relatively neurosis-free pretty girl for you may be that one wearing glasses in front of you in the line at Starbucks but you have zero chance to find out unless you approach.

[Woggle]

Because the internet is the only place where men can vent. It just hurts like hell when we are raised to treat women right and are told what women want and then when we get old enough to date we find out none of it is true. Many of us are just fed up with dealing with the drama simply for trying to have a love life.

 

I know this does not apply to all women but much of what these men say on here is true. We are not making the stories of being put through the ringer by women. I also think women can be just as bitter but they express it in different ways.

[zengirl]

Because the internet is the only place where men can vent. It just hurts like hell when we are raised to treat women right and are told what women want and then when we get old enough to date we find out none of it is true. Many of us are just fed up with dealing with the drama simply for trying to have a love life.

 

I know this does not apply to all women but much of what these men say on here is true. We are not making the stories of being put through the ringer by women. I also think women can be just as bitter but they express it in different ways.

 

And if you stuck to the actual stories and experiences, rather than generalizing women, I'm sure most of the women here (not all, mind you) would sympathize with you a lot more and argue with you a lot less. I'm totally willing to believe fellows have been hurt. It's when it turns into something ugly, that my sympathy drains.

[xpaperxcutx]

Because the internet is the only place where men can vent. It just hurts like hell when we are raised to treat women right and are told what women want and then when we get old enough to date we find out none of it is true. Many of us are just fed up with dealing with the drama simply for trying to have a love life.

 

I know this does not apply to all women but much of what these men say on here is true. We are not making the stories of being put through the ringer by women. I also think women can be just as bitter but they express it in different ways.

 

Hmm Woggle, I hope you're not writing this because you're so biased towards women....

 

 

I notice that the bitterest of men are the ones that don't accept rejections well and feel that they're entitled to gorgeous women and attention.

 

If anything I just think they lack the ability to be humble.

[Woggle]

And if you stuck to the actual stories and experiences, rather than generalizing women, I'm sure most of the women here (not all, mind you) would sympathize with you a lot more and argue with you a lot less. I'm totally willing to believe fellows have been hurt. It's when it turns into something ugly, that my sympathy drains.

 

I can't help to generalize when I notice a pattern. I don't know why women take it so personal.

[InceptorsRule]

I can't help to generalize when I notice a pattern. I don't know why women take it so personal.

 

To put you on the defensive--to make you feel bad because "you hurt her feelings" even though you weren't even making a point directed at anyone in particular.

 

An age-old tactic of women.

 

Actually the entire thread is another twist on the same tactic. See how clever the OP is by framing the question, "Why are men so bitter?" If you "bite" at that, you're immediately on the defensive because, after all--you're assumed to be a "bitter man" and then have to justify it.

 

OP could just as well have framed her question thusly: "Why is it so many women in the 'dating world' are cold, castrating b*tches who seemingly get their jollies by abusing men?"

 

Do you get how "the game" is played by the ladies yet?

[Disillusioned]

AS a single guy unless youre good looking you have to put yourself out there and face numerous rjections in hoping to just get one yes to go on a date while most women just sit back and wait and filter who they wanna give a chance to date them..

 

That.

 

BTW women seem to get a kick out of it.

[PJKino]

It really doesn't seem that odd to me, but I'm sure you understand why a lot of guys do find that odd. A lot of men would kill to be approached by a decent amount of women on a regular basis. I guess the reason I don't find it odd is because I've basically acted more "like a girl" in this respect; I've probably rejected about as many girls as I've accepted when it comes to any kind of sexual activity, and I've rejected basically everyone when it came to them being relationship material. Still though, maybe the fact that I am able to do this has something to do with the fact that, even when things don't go the way I plan, I don't start externalizing my bitterness and anguish on women as a whole?

 

And to be completely honest, I had no idea that this "bitter man" phenomenon actually existed until I started posting on LS. I can count on three fingers the number of male virgins I know in my age range, and maybe on one hand those who have never had a girlfriend. Virtually every guy I know has rejected numerous advances from women at some time or another.

 

Youve been approached by women numerous times and most Men you know have?

 

I must be even uglier then i think iam..Ive never been approached