Corporal Punishment?

[donnamaybe]

I am just hoping that Tara takes a bite now, what with my consciously poor reference to buddhism because of something EOD said about Ghandi. Of course I think Ghandi was alright... just kidding!!

 

All in all, I do really feel for EOD though. Being abused is ****ed up. I see his or her comments like a cry from a wounded animal and would not intentionally aim to embarrass him or her. I hope he or she finds peace. Although I do not speak about my past, I do understand what it is to overcome abuse.

 

People do some bad **** to kids.. but I still see them as being the ones who are ****ed up, not the act of spanking.

 

No, I do not regret spanking my children. They would have been splattered on my patio if I had not took the ulimate recourse of spanking my eldest on her bare bottom for sneaking around and finding the key for the window locks after I had explained TWICE the importance of listening to Mummy on that one.

 

The other instance remembered was my youngest daughter running off from me into the road.. the child thought she had me utterly under the control of her every move. At that time she had me worried because she had decided (aged 2) that she did not want to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner. Nope, she wanted crisps and other easy foods. I can't even say how worried I was! My Doctor told me it was a battle of wills and under no circumstances must I let her win. On day 9 (during which time I gave her blocks of cheese and raw vegetables) she asked for breakfast.

 

Running out in the road was the final straw for me (at about day 7 of her new life) until I spanked that bum of hers. She did not run out into the road again.

 

Yes, maybe I will be told that I should have done this, this and that instead but her hard headedness was broken... until the next time.

 

Calling people who love and care for their children child abusers, hypocrites etc to me is purely silly but I do reap the benefits of having my babies safe and respectful.. so it probably does not really matter.

 

Respect to you Clep for overcoming and helping others.. :love:

 

Take care,

Eve xx

This was a wonderful post on the subject. Yes, I too see EOD's upset over this issue as remnants from the past, yet to be overcome, and I feel for her. There is a HUGE difference between a swat on the behind and an angry beating. In a prior thread about this I had also used the example of my son wanting to run out into a busy roadway after having been told not to and had the consequences explained to him several times, and I was labeled a domestic abuser. However, better to have spanked and saved my child's life (he NEVER ran out into the road again) than to be able to say at his graveside, "But I never spanked him."

[donnamaybe]

:laugh:

jeesus how u people project,

Irony.....

[edgeofdarkness]

This was a wonderful post on the subject. Yes, I too see EOD's upset over this issue as remnants from the past,

Tell me one person on here who doesnt have issues and remnants frm the past, u all insist hitting your kids is ok and that its not abuse i feel strongly different, but simply becos there are more of u guys who hit your kids and feel u can justify it against my lone voice diasreeing with u, its me who has the serious issues which need help,? let me get this straight, i dont use violent tactics, u guys do, but its me who has a problem, thats really funny -, gimme a break.

 

There is a HUGE difference between a swat on the behind and an angry beating.

yuh i think its what they call pespective, some adults think a swift swat is acceptable, well no kid does at the time u know....nearlyall of u all say u got hit as kids and it didnt affect u, well of course it did, becos u now think its ok to perpetuate the habit, i got hit as a kid, never did me any harm, come here sonny 'swat!'! nice....

 

you In a prior thread about this I had also used the example of my son wanting to run out into a busy roadway after having been told not to and had the consequences explained to him several times, and I was labeled a domestic abuser.

so im not the only one then who sees a swat and abuse, but you of course defended yourself, probably with mind your own business, im saving his life!'

 

However, better to have spanked and saved my child's life (he NEVER ran out into the road again) than to be able to say at his graveside, "But I never spanked him."

so much better than saving his life and NOT spanking him in the bargain, sure, you go donna....

 

Irony.....

 

why irony, because i am not projecting anything onto u guys. i hate the thought of hitting kids for any reason, you guys find it acceptable, i find it distasteful where am i projecting, you guys are the one with the hitting problem, yet u say im the one with the problem because i feel so strong about this, talk about screwedup logic

[donnamaybe]

why irony, because i am not projecting anything onto u guys.

Sure you are. We are talking about calm, rational discipline tactics, and you are angrily berating everyone calling anyone who swats a child on their amply padded behind a "child abuser."

 

You seem to be speaking from a standpoint of extreme anger, and very understandably given what you've shared here.

Edited August 26, 2010 by donnamaybe

[edgeofdarkness]

sorry cant for the life of me see how what a stressed impatient and angry parent does can be described as calm rational discipline tactics, if u land a blow on another person u r angry stressed and impatient enough to do it, theres nothing calm or rational about hitting somebody else. if u tell me u r in a calm rational state when u hit yr kids then in that case u might be a sadist but i dont see it myself, im sure yr a great mom who means well but u shouldnt hit yr kids, nobody should. there is no excuse for a calm rational parent doing this..

[Clep]

sorry cant for the life of me see how what a stressed impatient and angry parent does can be described as calm rational discipline tactics, if u land a blow on another person u r angry stressed and impatient enough to do it, theres nothing calm or rational about hitting somebody else. if u tell me u r in a calm rational state when u hit yr kids then in that case u might be a sadist but i dont see it myself, im sure yr a great mom who means well but u shouldnt hit yr kids, nobody should. there is no excuse for a calm rational parent doing this..

 

EOD I used to think much like you. Well just like you so I do understand where you are coming from. You seem to feel quite passionate about this subject. I am wondering if you are doing more with that passion than telling everyone their perceptions are wrong.

 

Do you volunteer or work in the field? I would suggest doing either or, You may get more out of it than you think.

[BlackLovely]

sorry cant for the life of me see how what a stressed impatient and angry parent does can be described as calm rational discipline tactics, if u land a blow on another person u r angry stressed and impatient enough to do it, theres nothing calm or rational about hitting somebody else. if u tell me u r in a calm rational state when u hit yr kids then in that case u might be a sadist but i dont see it myself, im sure yr a great mom who means well but u shouldnt hit yr kids, nobody should. there is no excuse for a calm rational parent doing this..

 

EOD, you are the only poster on this thread, who has resorted to abusive language and screaming. I don't think it's fair to refer to people as "sadists" just because they occasionally slap their children. If they were punching and strangling the poor babies, I would agree. Once again, I believe that it's all a question of degree.

 

Eve, if giving your little girl a spanking saved her from being killed, you were right to do it. It's not like you gave her a concussion, like my mother did when I didn't wash the dishes fast enough.

 

Edge, I think that you're really getting out of hand. I did not start this thread for you to roar at people, just because you don't agree. The name calling and big letters is straight out of 1st grade. Stop it.

 

Maybe EOD needs a spanking? Just joking.

[edgeofdarkness]

EOD, you are the only poster on this thread, who has resorted to abusive language and screaming. I don't think it's fair to refer to people as "sadists" just because they occasionally slap their children. If they were punching and strangling the poor babies, I would agree. Once again, I believe that it's all a question of degree.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!read the quote again, im saying that if people are in a calm rational state when they smack their kids it might make them a sadist, but shes a good mum and i dont think thats the case, i wish people wd read properly instead of jumping on the 1st word they see....

 

 

Edge, I think that you're really getting out of hand. I did not start this thread for you to roar at people, just because you don't agree. The name calling and big letters is straight out of 1st grade. Stop it.

i havent called anybody n e thing, i'm just pointing my opinions, and it seems many people dont like to be broghut to task for what theyr doing.

 

Maybe EOD needs a spanking? Just joking.

that isnt funny.

[BlackLovely]

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!read the quote again, im saying that if people are in a calm rational state when they smack their kids it might make them a sadist, but shes a good mum and i dont think thats the case, i wish people wd read properly instead of jumping on the 1st word they see....

 

 

i havent called anybody n e thing, i'm just pointing my opinions, and it seems many people dont like to be broghut to task for what theyr doing.

 

 

that isnt funny.

 

I have asked you repeatedly to stop shouting. You don't have to write in big letters, in order for people to understand you. Also, you lose a lot of credibility when you behave in an irrational manner. WRITING LIKE THIS JUST TO PROVE A POINT IS NOT RATIONAL.

 

Oh, why isn't that funny EOD? I am a fellow abuse survivor and I can see the humor and irony in offering you a spanking. Lighten up and get over yourself. Life is too short.

 

You want to hear something even funnier, but true? I loooove getting spanked by my hubby; I'm sure the constant beatings is part of the reason. Priceless!

[edgeofdarkness]

im not shouting im just using caps for emphasis.

now your just being rude, i dont think its unreasonable for someone who feels strongly about their principles to say so and stick to their guns, why are you making fun of me, thats just not a kind thing to do. you got beaten by one person as a kid, well im glad u just got the worse end of one person. some of us werent so lucky, i find it really odd that simply because my experiences make me think this way everybody thinks i need treatment and counselling, no, i just know from experience that laying one single finger on a person who cant in law defend themselves, someone else has to do it for them, is wrong.

bear in mind all u people are talking logically justifying what u do why u do it, well fine that cant be said for every parent u see smaking their kids, can it, while u guys can discuss this from your povs millions more kids are being subjected to what their parents believe is reasonable punishment, but theyre simply doing it becos they really believe kids need whupping. its not right,

[BlackLovely]

im not shouting im just using caps for emphasis.

now your just being rude, i dont think its unreasonable for someone who feels strongly about their principles to say so and stick to their guns, why are you making fun of me, thats just not a kind thing to do. you got beaten by one person as a kid, well im glad u just got the worse end of one person. some of us werent so lucky, i find it really odd that simply because my experiences make me think this way everybody thinks i need treatment and counselling, no, i just know from experience that laying one single finger on a person who cant in law defend themselves, someone else has to do it for them, is wrong.

bear in mind all u people are talking logically justifying what u do why u do it, well fine that cant be said for every parent u see smaking their kids, can it, while u guys can discuss this from your povs millions more kids are being subjected to what their parents believe is reasonable punishment, but theyre simply doing it becos they really believe kids need whupping. its not right,

Not being rude, just being flip.

It's not kind for you to shout in a forum. Caps are considered screaming in an online context.

FYI, I was abused by more than one person, in more than one way. Those ****ers aren't going to steal my laughter. I think it's a sign of strength and healing, to be able to make light of what I have endured.

[Dooda]

Black, I think he makes a point on believing deeply in his opinions, and I don't think no one should pick on that. He has a right to believe in what he believes in, and I think it's rather better that he's so firm in believing that it's wrong to hit your kids rather than to sadistically beat your kids senselessly.

Anyways, I think many of us can relate to you Edge, deeply, and you shouldn't get so excited towards people that really do agree and understand you and what you have gone through.

Best of luck to you.

[donnamaybe]

it's wrong to hit your kids rather than to sadistically beat your kids senselessly.

 

See, here's the crux of the problem in this thread RIGHT here. There is so much "black and white" thinking. As if ANYONE in this thread has advocated for beating a child, much less senselessly. Again, I have to say .

[donnamaybe]

EOD, you are the only poster on this thread, who has resorted to abusive language and screaming. I don't think it's fair to refer to people as "sadists" just because they occasionally slap their children.

I've NEVER slapped any of my children. That's a blow to the face, as far as I'm concerned, and completely inappropriate and wrong. And don't worry, BL. I'm sure that you didn't intend to accuse me of such.

[Clep]

i dont think its unreasonable for someone who feels strongly about their principles to say so and stick to their guns, why are you making fun of me, thats just not a kind thing to do. you got beaten by one person as a kid, well im glad u just got the worse end of one person. some of us werent so lucky,

 

bear in mind all u people are talking logically justifying what u do why u do it, well fine that cant be said for every parent u see smaking their kids, can it, while u guys can discuss this from your povs millions more kids are being subjected to what their parents believe is reasonable punishment, but theyre simply doing it becos they really believe kids need whupping. its not right,

 

I agree completely with your first line here. Sticking to our beliefs shows strong moral character and I do admire that in anyone.

 

I do know I can only share my own pov not someone else's. I only know my own story, present and use that to shape my future.

 

I saw your post about working in an animal shelter and I think that is great. Kudos to you. I am wondering though with the passion you share regarding children if it might be a better fit to work with them? We are all here discussing our views here, not changing the world. Sounds like you want to have a hand in changing the ways of the world. You just might have found your calling.

[edgeofdarkness]

its the same thing working with animal and their owners, if i can just turn one person around and make them see what their doing is just wrong, i will figure i have done some good. if just one person on this forum thinks hmmm maybe EoD has got a point, maybe i should rethink this, that's all i need, becos even if they still end up smacking their kid, if they just think those few extra minutes about what their doing, then thats progress, if my comments in this thread make just one person review their stand its not been a bad thing......

[Eve]

its the same thing working with animal and their owners, if i can just turn one person around and make them see what their doing is just wrong, i will figure i have done some good. if just one person on this forum thinks hmmm maybe EoD has got a point, maybe i should rethink this, that's all i need, becos even if they still end up smacking their kid, if they just think those few extra minutes about what their doing, then thats progress, if my comments in this thread make just one person review their stand its not been a bad thing......

 

It is my experince that the abusive (proper) parents you speak off do not change. In fact they would rather give up their children in a heart beat rather than confront change.

 

Would what you are saying here have influenced your Mum?

 

Most take what they have done to the grave and would NEVER engage in open discussion. No, they have to be busted. I am pretty good at catching them out and would love to think that banning spanking would stop the abuse of children but I know this to be a false level of reasoning.

 

Nothing againt you, I am trying to allow you another view but do not expect you to utterly agree.

 

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Eve]

H'mmm... what about children who abuse their parents? I have a number of kids who hit, kick and punch their parents.. what of them?

 

Yes, I have a number of children on my case load who are violent towards their parents. IMO, there has been a move towards seeing children as interlectual equals in many respects and this is often the end result..

 

Parenting is often blended with different techniques, the parent who *whupps* their child often has little if no other technique.

 

*whupps* to me means leaving marks upon the child.

 

I do resent being termed as a sadist EOD. I suppose I have added my final two posts because of that comment.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

Edited August 27, 2010 by Eve

[edgeofdarkness]

It is my experince that the abusive (proper) parents you speak off do not change. In fact they would rather give up their children in a heart beat rather than confront change.

probably, yeah, too many bad stories in the press, man the parents just look so mean....

 

Would what you are saying here have influenced your Mum?

huh? why, my mum never laid a hand on me,

 

Most take what they have done to the grave and would NEVER engage in open discussion. No, they have to be busted. I am pretty good at catching them out and would love to think that banning spanking would stop the abuse of children but I know this to be a false level of reasoning.

i guess, but it takes one tiny drop of water at a time to make a hole in a rock.

 

Nothing againt you, I am trying to allow you another view but do not expect you to utterly agree.

people think that i cant see pov,s but i can, i just dont always agree with them.

 

 

 

 

H'mmm... what about children who abuse their parents? I have a number of kids who hit, kick and punch their parents.. what of them?

 

Yes, I have a number of children on my case load who are violent towards their parents. IMO, there has been a move towards seeing children as interlectual equals in many respects and this is often the end result..

my question would be where did they learn that and how, what makes a kid become violent like that, at such a young age??? something twists their young minds and makes them lash out like that, i guess its important to find the cause, and not focus on the symptom maybe.....

 

Parenting is often blended with different techniques, the parent who *whupps* their child often has little if no other technique.

 

*whupps* to me means leaving marks upon the child.

anything can leave a mark on the child, some marks fade quicker than others tho....

 

I do resent being termed as a sadist EOD. I suppose I have added my final two posts because of that comment.

oh for gods sake i didnt call anyone a sadist, read it again, ok,. Not using capitals as apparently that means i am shouting, which im not, but the emphasise is on read it again....

[Eve]

probably, yeah, too many bad stories in the press, man the parents just look so mean....I would go for the term, abusive.

 

 

 

huh? why, my mum never laid a hand on me,What abuse are you talking about then? Such strong opinions on a thread that touches on parental abuse.. wtf?

 

i guess, but it takes one tiny drop of water at a time to make a hole in a rock.You have not heard one word have you? This is arguing for the sake of it! Everyone can accept that spanking is not something you feel you could do. Ignoring the distiction between a batterer and a spanker is more than misleading.

 

people think that i cant see pov,s but i can, i just dont always agree with them.

Enough is enough.. no you don't see othe perspectives at all.

 

 

my question would be where did they learn that and how, what makes a kid become violent like that, at such a young age??? something twists their young minds and makes them lash out like that, i guess its important to find the cause, and not focus on the symptom maybe.....The influence of peers mostly.. also via parents who have abused them. None through a timely spanking. Not one.

 

anything can leave a mark on the child, some marks fade quicker than others tho....None more than inadequate boundary setting in the first instance..

 

oh for gods sake i didnt call anyone a sadist, read it again, ok,. Not using capitals as apparently that means i am shouting, which im not, but the emphasise is on read it again....You did make that distinction EOD.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

Edited August 27, 2010 by Eve

[Mikau]

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion but I'll post something from the perspective of the child (though it has been a while, I'm 21 now) rather than the parent.

 

I have been smacked during my childhood on several occasions. None of them was ever out of rage or loss of control by my parents, and in retrospect I feel I've deserved every single one of them. I do not think it has affected me in any way. I've never hated or feared my parents. I haven't grown up to be a violent or angry man because my parents spanked me on occassion (I haven't grown up to be violent or angry at all, for the record).

 

I don't know if I'll ever spank my children if/when I get them, I just feel that there is nothing inherently wrong with spanking. Ofcourse there's a fine line between corporal punishment and physical abuse and that line should never be crossed. That said, there is imo nothing wrong with spanking in principle.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Mikau
clarification

[DaisyLeigh]

My FIL and MIL raised 12 kids. My husband is the youngest. All of them are decent citizens, no one is a bum or a criminal. All of them adore MIL (and FIL when he was still living) and would do anything for her. Every last one of those kids were spanked. Not for every offense, but it was used in their house.

 

Now, if all spanking is abusive, wouldn't at least ONE of them be messed up?

[Minnie09]

Now, if all spanking is abusive, wouldn't at least ONE of them be messed up?

 

How do you know how messed up they are?

I know a 50-year old woman who grew up with 8 siblings, they were spanked and the girls (4 sisters) sexually abused by their own father until they left the house. All of them are good wives, not divorced, have nice kids, don't spank and/or abuse them. So they obviously turned out okay, too, but would they ever downplay the sexual abuse in their childhood? Probably not.

I'm sure they are messed up, though. We just don't see it.

Abuse is abuse is abuse.

 

Spanking is wrong. Wrong, wrong.

[Eve]

How do you know how messed up they are?

I know a 50-year old woman who grew up with 8 siblings, they were spanked and the girls (4 sisters) sexually abused by their own father until they left the house. All of them are good wives, not divorced, have nice kids, don't spank and/or abuse them. So they obviously turned out okay, too, but would they ever downplay the sexual abuse in their childhood? Probably not.

I'm sure they are messed up, though. We just don't see it.

Abuse is abuse is abuse.

 

Spanking is wrong. Wrong, wrong.

 

So, was the spanking some form of foreplay? Does it follow that if you spank you will have sex with a child? No, it does not! Those poor kids were not spanked they were abused.

 

I am glad that they went on to have lives of their own, many never recover. I am glad that the woman mentioned held to what she believed too.. good for her.. but I do not agree that a blanket conclusion can be drawn from what you have said.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[wuggle]

IMO as the main job of a parent is to guide their children through the early years of life and teach them things like self reliance, discipline and a place of self in the universe etc, the use of any form of hitting, spanking etc is fine.

 

As long as 2 things are absolutley gauranteed on the part of the parent.

 

First : this is the most appropriate form of lesson.

 

Second: the administration of the physical pain is NOT in ANY way shape or form done from frustration or anger on behalf of the parent, but thoughtfully and measured.

 

If both these rules don't apply then as far as I'm concerned the adult should get 10x this physical punishment themselves from all the adults around them.