Treat them like dirt and they stick to you like mud?

[Mad Max]

What the heck is a PUA? anyways..

 

 

Pickup Artist

[dispatch3d]

If you want dating to lead to a relationship, then dating advice is relationship advice. The people who aren't in relationships/married are not currently succeeding, for whatever reason. (Or they're seeking something different. But I addressed that.) Now, that could be as simple as a "time out" in between relationships, or it could be a series of long strike-outs. But the people in happy relationships and marriages, they did something right in dating to get there.

 

You're missing the point about married people. Unless they have some sort of weird mail-order situation, everyone who was married once dated, and successfully stopped dating. Dating is a process, and marriage is its conclusion. I'm not talking about who they are SOLELY in the marriage. I knew most of these kind men when they were dating too and saw them marry their wives (You don't generally make male friends after they're married, if you're a single gal, as a rule; not that I'm against it, but it just is a pretty rare phenomenon for various, understandable reasons). They didn't just suddenly start being kind after they got married.

 

Well, I have loads of experience with PUA crap. . . rejecting the fellows who follow it! But I know that no man immersed in it is going to admit that women have opinions that could ever possibly help them.

 

You are backwards rationalizing people who are married being good at dating. This doesn't work. It's like saying because someone is in a relationship they are good with men/women. Also not true. It's like saying because I eat pears I am healthy. Also not true. because of B I am A doesn't work. Just because B happened does not mean A ever occured. It's a fallacy.

[Mad Max]

You are backwards rationalizing people who are married being good at dating. This doesn't work. It's like saying because someone is in a relationship they are good with men/women. Also not true. It's like saying because I eat pears I am healthy. Also not true. because of B I am A doesn't work. Just because B happened does not mean A ever occured. It's a fallacy.

 

 

You also said the following:

 

 

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore. They aren't trying to get with new girls or anything - they are trying to manage their own current relationship. If I wanted relationship advice I'd go to them. If I wanted dating advice I definitely wouldn't.

 

 

Just because someone is married, doesn't mean they're good in relationships.

[Green]

You are backwards rationalizing people who are married being good at dating. This doesn't work. It's like saying because someone is in a relationship they are good with men/women. Also not true. It's like saying because I eat pears I am healthy. Also not true. because of B I am A doesn't work. Just because B happened does not mean A ever occured. It's a fallacy.

 

I often find that people who have been in long relationships suck at dating. Obviously being in a relationship really means nothing about your dating abilities. You might have married your high school sweetheart or some sht.

[zengirl]

You are backwards rationalizing people who are married being good at dating. This doesn't work. It's like saying because someone is in a relationship they are good with men/women. Also not true. It's like saying because I eat pears I am healthy. Also not true. because of B I am A doesn't work. Just because B happened does not mean A ever occured. It's a fallacy.

 

No, it's really not like that analogy at all. It's a little like the analogy that says, "Because I am physically fit, one might deduce I exercise," so it is backwards to a degree. I suppose someone could be physically fit without exercise in certain, rare situations (They live in the wild and hunt what they eat and do loads of natural manual labor and cardio or something), but it would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

But your idea of asking only single people is like saying that the people who aren't physically fit know the most about exercise! Now, in some cases, where someone was very fit, studied physiology and nutrition, and maintained that lifestyle for years only to lose it to a sudden accident or illness, you might find one who's knowledgeable, but the successful group has more knowledge on average, by far.

 

My point is this: They got someone to stay with them long-term and marry them. They successfully used a dating process to achieve their goals.I also spoke to how the same things don't apply to different goals--i.e. just getting laid.

 

The issue here is you don't see relationships or marriage as success for some reason. Most men who are happy in them do---from what I can tell. Maybe the fellows in good relationships could chime in on that one.

[ascendotum]

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore.

 

From experience I agree with this. Maybe not in every case but in most I find married women (married guys tend to not give dating advice as much) can give advice that comes off as sounding nice & supportive but can be really clueless. They have rose colored glasses to the mindset that singles operate with. I find it amusing when I witness this with women I have known for years who say things about relationships that totally goes against what they used to do when they were single or younger/slimmer/sexier.

[zengirl]

From experience I agree with this. Maybe not in every case but in most I find married women (married guys tend to not give dating advice as much) can give advice that comes off as sounding nice & supportive but can be really clueless. They have rose colored glasses to the mindset that singles operate with. I find it amusing when I witness this with women I have known for years who say things about relationships that totally goes against what they used to do when they were single or younger/slimmer/sexier.

 

I think this is also true, but I was speaking as a single girl who witnessed male friends date, form relationships, and marry happily. All of them happen to be kind and always were.

[Green]

No, it's really not like that analogy at all. It's a little like the analogy that says, "Because I am physically fit, one might deduce I exercise," so it is backwards to a degree. I suppose someone could be physically fit without exercise in certain, rare situations (They live in the wild and hunt what they eat and do loads of natural manual labor and cardio or something), but it would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

But your idea of asking only single people is like saying that the people who aren't physically fit know the most about exercise! Now, in some cases, where someone was very fit, studied physiology and nutrition, and maintained that lifestyle for years only to lose it to a sudden accident or illness, you might find one who's knowledgeable, but the successful group has more knowledge on average, by far.

 

My point is this: They got someone to stay with them long-term and marry them. They successfully used a dating process to achieve their goals.I also spoke to how the same things don't apply to different goals--i.e. just getting laid.

 

The issue here is you don't see relationships or marriage as success for some reason. Most men who are happy in them do---from what I can tell. Maybe the fellows in good relationships could chime in on that one.

 

I'm in a good relationship but I often wonder if its a success. I don't believe in treating girls like dirt but if I were to live more of a playboy lifestyle I would get to have a lot more fun. The trade off is its a lonely idea for me.

 

I enjoy having a gf that I build and share memories with. But the truth is the passion can be hard to keep. I some times miss that passion from a new relationship. I just think the idea of being sinle is lonely.

 

Truthfuly people like to act helpless but really you do what you want. People who are sad and single are addicted to being sad and single like a drug.

[dispatch3d]

No, it's really not like that analogy at all. It's a little like the analogy that says, "Because I am physically fit, one might deduce I exercise," so it is backwards to a degree. I suppose someone could be physically fit without exercise in certain, rare situations (They live in the wild and hunt what they eat and do loads of natural manual labor and cardio or something), but it would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

But your idea of asking only single people is like saying that the people who aren't physically fit know the most about exercise! Now, in some cases, where someone was very fit, studied physiology and nutrition, and maintained that lifestyle for years only to lose it to a sudden accident or illness, you might find one who's knowledgeable, but the successful group has more knowledge on average, by far.

 

My point is this: They got someone to stay with them long-term and marry them. They successfully used a dating process to achieve their goals.I also spoke to how the same things don't apply to different goals--i.e. just getting laid.

 

The issue here is you don't see relationships or marriage as success for some reason. Most men who are happy in them do---from what I can tell. Maybe the fellows in good relationships could chime in on that one.

 

Ok we can use your physically fit one. Because they are physically fit they must exercise. The assumption being that all physically fit people exercise. The fallacy part of the arguement being that there could be OTHER REASONS they are physically fit. In this case what if "they" are actually cavemen. Cavemen didn't "exercise" like we do today at all! Or what if "they" eat healthy - and I realize you chose physically fit to try to get out of this frame being correct. The problem is just because A and B occured, we do not know that A completely fills out all ways B can happen just by the fact that we know the second event happened.

 

I'm sure there's a name for this fallacy if you looked it up. This isn't something I came up with fwiw.

 

And if you wanted me to contradict your bolded statement with the above logic. We dont' know they successfully dated for a long time to find the one they love. What if the first person they ever dated they married? Then they were more lucky than good at dating, weren't they? I'm sure you can counter with well that's an extreme case blablabla but the fact is that reasoning is flawed, as shown in the "simpler" examples.

[Pyro]

We dont' know they successfully dated for a long time to find the one they love. What if the first person they ever dated they married? Then they were more lucky than good at dating, weren't they? I'm sure you can counter with well that's an extreme case blablabla but the fact is that reasoning is flawed, as shown in the "simpler" examples.

 

Personally someone like that has limited dating experience but they can still learn alot from people around them who date and coming to places like this and reading about peoples experiences.

[zengirl]

Ok we can use your physically fit one. Because they are physically fit they must exercise. The assumption being that all physically fit people exercise. The fallacy part of the arguement being that there could be OTHER REASONS they are physically fit. In this case what if "they" are actually cavemen. Cavemen didn't "exercise" like we do today at all! Or what if "they" eat healthy - and I realize you chose physically fit to try to get out of this frame being correct. The problem is just because A and B occured, we do not know that A completely fills out all ways B can happen just by the fact that we know the second event happened.

 

I'm sure there's a name for this fallacy if you looked it up. This isn't something I came up with fwiw.

 

And if you wanted me to contradict your bolded statement with the above logic. We dont' know they successfully dated for a long time to find the one they love. What if the first person they ever dated they married? Then they were more lucky than good at dating, weren't they? I'm sure you can counter with well that's an extreme case blablabla but the fact is that reasoning is flawed, as shown in the "simpler" examples.

 

I actually included all the exceptions in my argument, including the one you note about the cave man. Did you read it?

 

Again, this does nothing to refute my assertion in general. I'm not saying all single people are idiots at relationships and all married people are aces; I'm saying that most married men who are happy with their marriages did something very right in dating to get there (though some perhaps got very, very lucky, but you make most luck in life).

 

As I said, there are exceptions. But you are trying to hang your hat on saying the exception is the rule. I used the kind men I know as an example and you said, their success didn't count anymore because they were married. I don't know loads of kind playboys, because being a playboy generally requires either extremely phenomenal stats/looks (I do know one friend like this) or some unkindness, yes, but it doesn't generally lead to happy, successful relationships if you are unkind. Which is why I stated that dating for different goals is different.

[Lady vs Panda]

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

 

 

You're right, I do have zero experience with it. Because I don't date the manipulative wannabe players who get into "PUA crap."

 

But for exactly the reasons you stated above, you should stop pretending to be an authority on women, on how women think, on what women want. If you had genuine interaction with women, a healthy understanding and relationships with them, that would be one thing. But...

[dispatch3d]

I actually included all the exceptions in my argument, including the one you note about the cave man. Did you read it?

 

Again, this does nothing to refute my assertion in general. I'm not saying all single people are idiots at relationships and all married people are aces; I'm saying that most married men who are happy with their marriages did something very right in dating to get there (though some perhaps got very, very lucky, but you make most luck in life).

 

As I said, there are exceptions. But you are trying to hang your hat on saying the exception is the rule.

 

the "exceptions" ARE the problem. The fact they exist mean you're reasoning is flawed. The only reason their aren't more exceptions are you are intentionally picking things that are VERY close together to LIMIT my exceptions. There's no proof that this limiting is justified in dating. In fact it could very well run the other way. Other ways to get married and not date include:

 

(1) Married the 2nd guy you ever dated.

(2) Arranged marriage

(3) If you are a vulcan (read spocks dad), and marrying a women is the most logical thing to do.

(4) Married the 3rd guy you ever dated.

(5_ Married the 4th guy you ever dated.

(6) Were told by a girl to date a guy, so you went up to that guy and said lets date. He agreed. You married that guy.

(7) Deeply religious and don't believe in sex before marriage. As far as guys are concerned I'd assume this isn't equivalent to dating at all.

(8) Married the 5th guy you ever dated. The other 4 guys were short term relationships...

 

It's really only limited by how good I am at brainstorming .

[dispatch3d]

You're right, I do have zero experience with it. Because I don't date the manipulative wannabe players who get into "PUA crap."

 

But for exactly the reasons you stated above, you should stop pretending to be an authority on women, on how women think, on what women want. If you had genuine interaction with women, a healthy understanding and relationships with them, that would be one thing. But...

 

cool I won't post here anymore. It's really the guys loss. Not like I get a lot out of it. Tata!

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Pickup Artist

 

Ah I see thanks for that max how fulfilling that must be at the end of the day really tho wouldn't have thought you needed much schooling to just get into some ones pants? now to get a actual relationship would be something else.

[zengirl]

the "exceptions" ARE the problem. The fact they exist mean you're reasoning is flawed. The only reason their aren't more exceptions are you are intentionally picking things that are VERY close together to LIMIT my exceptions. There's no proof that this limiting is justified in dating. In fact it could very well run the other way. Other ways to get married and not date include:

 

(1) Married the 2nd guy you ever dated.

(2) Arranged marriage

(3) If you are a vulcan (read spocks dad), and marrying a women is the most logical thing to do.

(4) Married the 3rd guy you ever dated.

(5_ Married the 4th guy you ever dated.

(6) Were told by a girl to date a guy, so you went up to that guy and said lets date. He agreed. You married that guy.

(7) Deeply religious and don't believe in sex before marriage. As far as guys are concerned I'd assume this isn't equivalent to dating at all.

(8) Married the 5th guy you ever dated. The other 4 guys were short term relationships...

 

It's really only limited by how good I am at brainstorming .

 

Most of these have nothing to do with the analogy at hand. I don't even see what you mean, except for arranged marriages. What do all the "Married the Xth guy" things even mean. It doesn't matter how many people, unless it is significantly small, you married before dating. And having them all be relationships surely doesn't seem bad to me. Some people are successfully able to filter others out even before a first date! More power to them.

 

People who are married used to date. Now, either they found dating so exhausting they got married out of frustration (not going to work out well and not the married people I know) or they are happily married and found someone they really love who loves them back. They still used to date.

 

How do you define success at dating?

 

At any rate, none of this challenges my point: All of the happily married men I know (who thus are not in any way frustrated by dating; people in happy relationships are the largest group of people who are not frustrated by dating) are kind men. I'm sure the first adjectives their wives use to describe them wouldn't be "nice," but that has to do with the definition issues I mentioned much earlier and also. . .what a weak word. If you only have 1 word, I hope you can find an interesting one! But they were kind to their wives and other women they dated, successfully navigated the waters of dating to Happily Married. I've yet to see a jerk do this, personally, though I assume some can. Still, if you get something by being a jerk, isn't that like kind of winning by cheating. Does it really feel like winning? To me, it wouldn't. And, in this case, what you'd be cheating yourself out of is generally a decent gal.

Edited August 14, 2010 by zengirl

[dispatch3d]

I can't go out like that. Just can't do it. I will go out like this.

 

Listen guys girls are feeding you (for the most part) **** advice 95% of the time. Once you start doing things that guys who are GOOD AT DATING do (ie. they date a lot of women) you will realize what you should be doing. Don't do the **** that married guys do, they aren't dating a lot. Don't do something trying to be "nice". You're being a pushover. In fact, as I stated earlier, you would do better off being a complete ******* than even being semi-nice. I'm sure most of you have realized this from experience - being nice WILL NOT WORK. Being nice doesn't make girls think you are relationship worthy or **** worthy.... well mayyyybe marriage material. It makes them think you are a pushover they can get anything from. I'm not overly nice and I still get bull**** like this from my female friends.

 

example of a girl who I'm good friends with, hang out with pretty regularly (like 2-3 times a month, invited to all her parties she shows up to mine):

this is through texting...

 

her: "Hey you should have a barbeque"

me: "I kinda already ate pizza. I also have a big test in a week and have to study. None of the roomates are around"

her: "What do you mean by kinda?" (like are you ****ing serious?)

me: "I made pizza and ate it. Not hungry. Noones really around"

her: "Well can we just use your bbq we are hungry"

me: I was studying and got the text 2-3 hours later. I think she sent another one asking to use the bbq then said nevermind. If you haven't clued in yet, she is trying to use the fact I am nice+she thinks I MIGHT like her to use my bbq for free even when it's extremely inconvenient for me.

 

Do you think any guy friend you've ever had attempted this bull****? Never in a million years would I ask a guy to have a bbq, then when he says it really isn't convenient for him right now, tell him I just want to use his bbq regardeless can I come over. Lol. She is even a relatively nice girl, but there you go. That word again. If you are nice expect to be used.

 

And seriously, do I come off as even kind of nice in my posts? No not really at all. I'm an ******* who gives his opinion on a subject regardeless of how harsh it may seem. I deal with the truth of the matter, and I don't sugar coat it. I still get treated like a "nice guy" though if they think even DEEP DOWN I am nice.

 

other examples of being a "nice" guy:

 

(back when I'm super not with it) - haha this is CLASSIC

me: Hey girl x, want a drink it's good to see you.

girl x: Sure. Continues to flirt with me. Runs the second she gets the drink.

 

You can use this sort of thing as a test to see if a girl will give you even half-way good dating advice. Tell her oh I usually just buy girls drinks it usually works fine. Do you have any other suggestions? If she doesn't point out that you're getting used, she isn't going to be honest with you (She KNOWS you are being used). It is rare girls will tell you vice-versa.

 

girl I'm friends with: Hey can we get a drive to your party we don't want to walk.

me: Doesn't your roommate have a car?

girl: Yeah but I'm not sure we'll make it if we walk. It's a long way.

me: Ahh if you want a drive your roommate can drive you here.

Realize now that this girl has a boyfriend (same as the one below), and has hit on me pretty huge in bars. Like - "Don't tell boyfriend you're staying over with me", "be quiet when you leave in the morning". Yes these are quotes. I left the bar in disgust obviously.

 

exact same girl, before I realized this above bull**** was going on:

girl: Hey can you give x-friend a drive to my place.

me: Yeah sure why not.

They both proceed to have 0 interest in me. She proceeds to get with current boyfriend in front of me while constantly flirting with me. Lol.

 

I actually thought of this a while ago. Although I am not friends with this girl anymore due to making plans with her at least 5 times then ditching her, I was drink buddies with her for at least a year.

her friend: Hey you can buy x-girl a drink, then she'll buy me a drink, and we'll all get drinks.

me: hahahahahahaha (not even kidding, laughed like mad THEN realized oh whoops I'm probably being an *******. I was drunk).

I drank with them all the time and was pretty good friends. I could never for the life of me give them a reason I liked them beyond their looks. They didn't have any other qualities. Girls generally hate them fwiw (because they get a ton of attention purely based on looks). They were pretty good friends tho.

 

If you guys ever start looking for reactions after you do something for a girl, you'll quickly realize that almost EVERY TIME you do something nice for a girl she will SAY oh gee thanks you are the best, and then act as if you did a dis-service. Secretly, deep down she wishes you didn't do everything she asked. That you were difficult and a challenge. If you do nice **** for them, expect them to think "Lol you aren't a challenge at all. Don't be ridiculous." I got that response. Know how/why? Not because I was supplicating, or doing things to try to get in their pants. Actually I just like doing nice things for people/favors for friends and I considered them friends. However, they take it as you doing **** just because they are hot. They see how far the envelope can be pushed. If you want lady friends and women in your life, then don't do them favours unless they truly deserve one and know exactly why you did them a favour.

 

Of course girls will COMPLETELY DENY this exists AT ALL. Guys who don't know anything about women WILL DO THE SAME. Ever wonder x girl is dating and going to marry x guy? Seriously, I know a guy who got fired from his job for making other people uncomfortable, yelled racial slurs across the street at two people to "go back to where they came from", and is engaged to marry one of the nicest girls I've ever met. Right now he doesn't work and lives at her house without a job, and just got a puppy by saying "oh I got a job in a month". I saw him a month ago and he said, "Lol a job. Nope don't have one, got a new puppy though he's awesome".

 

Obviously girls are going to hate all over this post and deny they are actually like this. I wouldn't want to admit to it either if I were them. They'll say "oh those girls are unhealthy. The real women of the world LIKE nice guys." Tell you what, when I meet these "real women" who like "nice guys" I'll let you know. So far I haven't met any. Actually I did meet a girl who was dating a "nice guy". She told my roomate (whose veryg ood with women and manages to be nice some of the time), that she felt trapped in the relationship. She followed me around for a month+ at bars. Literally every time I went out she somehow was there. And me and her would talk FOR HOURS. She eventually stated "I find you really easy to talk to". I couldn't ****ing react to it. She's dating a nice guy, is a very nice and sweet girl, seems totally healthy, and yet is thinking about getting with me while going out with him. My reality couldn't handle girls being like this. I brought up how awesome her boyfriend is in a roundabout way so she would stop. It saddens me because I really did actually like her...

 

Which brings up a second point. When you start to get good at gaming, you'll also realize that getting with girls who already have boyfriends they don't like is EASIER than getting with single girls. These girls have a higher sex drive (already in a relationship), aren't being properly sexed, may have gone without, don't have all their needs filled (and need them filled more), and are just looking to use you for the sex. If you don't believe it it's only because your game isn't there yet. Honestly if a girl just seems TOTALLY into me from the start I know immediately she has a boyfriend. Usually they break out of the trans they are in and leave - thank god.

 

If you think I'm jaded imagine the **** I read about the guys who are ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD. I'm a ****ing two bit hack who does 60% of things right, 30% of things neutral, and 10% things wrong. Those guys are doing EVERYTHING RIGHT. They have close rates of 95%. Uhhhhhh guess what - there are more than 5% of girls in relatoinships! They have tons of women who they get sex from regularly who have a boyfriend who they lie to about where they are getting the sex. They use him for emotional attachment and the ******* for sex. Which would you rather be used for? And if you are regularly becoming just friends with girls and getting your time monopolized by them - guess what - you are being too ****ing nice.

 

Want a dose of reality. Go find "tyler durden's" article on "The Secrety Society". Google it you can probably find it. What he's writing about exists, just as easily as on the internet as it does in real life. He has no reason to lie in that article, it was posted on a freaking public forum. He made absolutely no money from writing it. He has nothing to gain by lieing!

 

You will get farther by being a complete ******* than being nice. The group of guys I know who have the most gorgeous women surrounding them are 90% *******s. No questions asked. I have to CONSTANTLY defend myself when around them. If I had no social skills I would literally be eaten up and spit out in that environment. I'm not saying BE an *******. If you are nice maybe you want to take a second look at the reasons you are doing things and if they are working. You should also realize that if you were a complete douchebag you would likely do better. Please don't do this though. Who the hell wants that kind of relationship (even if it works). Find a happy medium. Don't be that dickhead yelling racial slurs across the street. Be my roomate who is great with women, has a fantastic relationship, and is nice to her on a regular basis. Sure it hurts him some of the time and results in her being silly a little too often because she knows she can get away with it. But overall I would rather a relationship where I don't have all the power from being a complete ******* than being nice some of the time.

 

And dating is so different from a relationship which is even farther from marriage. Sure maybe to a girl it isn't. She can sleep with almost any guy who calls her if she actually wanted to. How the hell can you ****up in such a situation? She isn't concerned with how to turn the guy on, how to get him interested, or any of that bull****. Lol why the **** would that matter. She's worried about the guy being a huge player. It shouldn't be surprising that girls give such bad advice and don't even realize it. Afterall what they do works for them why wouldn't it work for you? Well because the interaction is COMPLETELY different. And if you don't realize, zengirl, that a marriage is SO FAR from dating/getting to know someone that their information will be useless to guys, then you probably don't always give the best advice to begin with.

 

The sad part...or probably good part for me cause it reduces the competition... is guys will take a girls advice over a guys advice 95% of the time. Guys only see their OWN half of the equation. Girls see THEIR half of the equation. Just because a girl can get in a relationship in 2 seconds DOESNT MAKE HER AN EXPERT ON DATING. See the above fallacy (which is a fallacy, I don't know how the **** you argue about a fallacy not being a fallacy. It's a fallacy, meaning you can't build a solid foundation for an argument on it. It's false reasoning - that's why its called "A fallacy". If you looked up gamblers fallacy - extremely common one - also not valid reasoning.)

 

Admittedly my argument skills are very weak. So yeah maybe people will come back and refute everything I say here. The **** if I care. I spend my time changing peoples minds by changing their attitude (to a positive one), and making them realize it's in our best interest if we BOTH do x. I never get in arguments in real life because ego's immediately get involved. Ever see someone start an argument and change sides? Never ever. I conceed all arguments on principle (unless there's money involved).

 

PS. Last point, Green knows what the **** he's doing. And did you notice what he said at the end of his post? He DOESNT LIKE being in a relationship as much because he prefers the NEW FEELING OF RELATIONSHIPS. A sign of a guy ACTUALLY being good and thinking in his MIND he is good is that he DOESNT ACTUALLY LIKE BEING TIED DOWN. This goes hand in hand with the actual players I know in real life. And yeah, for the most part they ARE nice at times. It's all about balance, you need to meter how nice you are. If you poor on way too much without any reason expect to get the shaft. Green is in a relationship now because he found a keeper - he probably can't find the same quality of woman readily. So he stays with her. If she was low quality he wouldn't be there for so long. This is common among every single guy I know who has dated a hot girl. Just because a guy is in a relationship doesn't mean he's coming from the same place as Green. In fact, he's MUCH MORE LIKELY to come from a different place.

[zengirl]

dispatch3d, every time you write about these things, you just seem really young (or immature). And so do the girls you write about, frankly. These examples all talk about what seem to be low-quality women to me. If you think your attitude is a positive one, I am just baffled. You're all about seeking to control. I doubt that will ever make you happy.

 

I think when men say that you have to be an ******* to get women to like you, it's basically like the women who say they have to be a bitch to get respect. No. You really don't. And it really doesn't work out in terms of getting you any meaningful love, respect, or caring from a healthy person. I you want something else, like simply to bang a hot chick, that is irrelevant.

 

You never did answer the most important question I asked: What's success in dating to you?

 

I use a happy marriage as one example of success. It is. The person has successfully found something that makes them happy and is not at all frustrated by dating. There are likely other measures, but, to me, all of them include not being frustrated by dating. I consider myself successful at dating, in some ways, because I can do it without feeling frustrated by the process at all. It is fun to me. It makes me happy most of the time and sad very seldom.

 

And if you don't realize, zengirl, that a marriage is SO FAR from dating/getting to know someone that their information will be useless to guys, then you probably don't always give the best advice to begin with.

 

I'm not talking about people who were married 40 years ago. Honestly, people's memories don't change so quickly. And the whole married thing came from an observation made about them, not their direct thoughts anyway.

[a_woman]

I get the feeling dispatch you have an issue with people in general rather than dating/women. you seem uptight and angry, you need to chill out

[Woggle]

Like ot or not what dispatch is saying is true. Nearly every man I know who has women craling all over him is an utter scumbag. They treat these girls like toys to be played with yet the women still keep coming back. Meanwhile the men who treat women with respect and are faithful get played left and right. I am sorry but it is true and any man with dating experience knows it is true.

[Gattica]

If a guy treats me like dirt...I am out the door. It most certainly does not lead to sex, a relationship, a friendship...nothing.

 

A guy that is confident and and considerate is the ideal. Is that considered a "nice guy"? Don't know, don't care.

 

This treat women like s**t to get what you want is nonsense if you are actually wanting a woman that can stand on her own 2 feet and has respect for herself. If you don't care about more than scoring then keep the treat women like crap up because there are plenty of women that are so desperate for attention, that the type of attention does not matter. In the end, you will end up with another notch on your bedpost or if it goes further than that...a doormat as a girlfriend that needs your constant validation.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Like ot or not what dispatch is saying is true. Nearly every man I know who has women craling all over him is an utter scumbag. They treat these girls like toys to be played with yet the women still keep coming back. Meanwhile the men who treat women with respect and are faithful get played left and right. I am sorry but it is true and any man with dating experience knows it is true.

 

But what kind of women do the scum bags truly attract? Your married yourself woggle im guessing/hopeing you treat her with respect and are faithful hows that been working out for you how has your wife responded to it?

[SpanksTheMonkey]

If a guy treats me like dirt...I am out the door. It most certainly does not lead to sex, a relationship, a friendship...nothing.

 

A guy that is confident and and considerate is the ideal. Is that considered a "nice guy"? Don't know, don't care.

 

This treat women like s**t to get what you want is nonsense if you are actually wanting a woman that can stand on her own 2 feet and has respect for herself. If you don't care about more than scoring then keep the treat women like crap up because there are plenty of women that are so desperate for attention, that the type of attention does not matter. In the end, you will end up with another notch on your bedpost or if it goes further than that...a doormat as a girlfriend that needs your constant validation.

 

Yep...what they said

[a_woman]

I think this is about what you believe. you think that women are out there to use you and abuse you and you focus on that, this attitude will come and bite you on the butt in the end. if you are negative and surround yourself with people that justify that negativity and are as lost as yourself, you will end up in a very unhealthy place.

 

the example of the bbq in dispatch's post after he had a pizza: if I got texts like that they would not even disrupt my day for 5 seconds because they are just noise and they aren't something that I would even remember 2 hours later, let alone post about on an internet board.

 

what we filter out as important in our lives and the attitude we take are very much our own choice. the expression 'self-fulfilling prophecy' comes to mind.

[Woggle]

But what kind of women do the scum bags truly attract? Your married yourself woggle im guessing/hopeing you treat her with respect and are faithful hows that been working out for you how has your wife responded to it?

 

They attract all kinds of women. I see women with successful careers who are well ediucated letting a player just degrade them and then coming back for more while they treat a good man who in many cases they are involved with or even married to like he is chopped liver. It happens time and time again.

 

I am married and I treat her well but I constantly worry if I am making her fall out of love with me. I 2nd gues every time I want to do something special for her and how I am going to be perceived. The marriage at times really does seem too god to be true. Women these don't act like her just because they love a man.