Treat them like dirt and they stick to you like mud?

[Gattica]

I didn't break anything. Treating a girl like dirt will not work in the long run. A girl with an ounce of self-respect won't stick around. It's really not a difficult concept. Don't be boring, don't be a pushover. I don't see what's so hard to get.

 

Good post...spot on.

[zengirl]

being nice definitely hurts your chances. I"m verrrry sure of this. There are lots of very nice good looking guys who are held back by being nice. It just kills the attraction. The fact there are "nuances" in womens posts/thoughts is why guys get so frustrated trying to take advice by looking for the minidetails.

 

I lean towards being too much of a dick. Don't really have any of the too nice problem anymore. (shocker)

 

Success in life is about understanding and applying nuance. Most of the successful men I know understand this.

 

Being kind does not kill the attraction. Being creepy-nice (like agreeing with everything I say, even when you don't or calling me and asking me to make basic decisions for you---not the big decisions it's natural for couples to make together) might. . . but I don't know any men who like that either. That's not nice; it's needy and fake. I've never heard of a girl dropping a fellow because he conducted himself like a kind, caring person. . . unless she wasn't ready to be in a relationship with a kind, caring person and she realized she was likely to hurt him more by staying in it, and thus not a kind, caring, healthy person herself. I have also known men who've done this too.

 

Almost all the happily married men I know are kind. I never know what to do with the word "Nice." The problem with this word is that it has two meanings; one is kind and one is fine. So, when someone says, "Oh, he's a nice guy/gal," they are likely saying "fine/okay/etc" ---which, no, is not what you want for a relationship, but that doesn't mean their kindness had anything to do with the issue. The issue was a lack of interest, attraction, and compatibility (and possibly emotional health), like it always is.

[ascendotum]

I know that but I'm not doing anything close to fine. I'm getting older and it's hard to even imagine a woman being interested in me.

 

Gamma – what skydiveaddict says is so pertinent. The thing is the longer you stay with a particular mind set the harder it is to change unless some other aspect of your life changes and you can then build on that psychologically. I really recommend getting a gym membership.

Also I have seen you post a few times about your lack of past relationship experience being a negative. Just because it is not written rule and women may downplay it in conversation, make no mistake, it is a big deal, as I am sure you have found it to be a catch 22 situation. Given your age I really think you need to lie to women regarding the fact that you have been single for most of your life. You should cook up past relationship history +girlfriends that you can refer to in conversations, and make sure your friends + family are in on it, if they want to see you happy.

[Mad Max]

girls will definitely stay in a ****ty relationship where they are treated like dirt for longer than they will stay in a ****ty relationship where the guy is too nice.... well I guess I should say as far as the guy is concerned (considering if he's too nice she'll just stop sexing him).

 

 

Girls, yes. Women, no. Explain to me how I'm nice and don't have any problems. Why do you think that is?

[skydiveaddict]

I'll see friends around 4-8 toimes the entire rest of the year. People are extremely busy. Where do I go alone? There is no conversation unless it is to a restaurant to order food.

 

 

You need to get a new hobby dude. Mine is skydiving. You will meet tons of new people. You could join the army also. You will make friends for life. The possibilities are endless. Join a hiking club, go to a church group if that's something you do. The point is to get out there and DO IT. I have every confidence that you can make it happen. Even ask others on this site for suggestions

[dispatch3d]

Success in life is about understanding and applying nuance. Most of the successful men I know understand this.

 

Being kind does not kill the attraction. Being creepy-nice (like agreeing with everything I say, even when you don't or calling me and asking me to make basic decisions for you---not the big decisions it's natural for couples to make together) might. . . but I don't know any men who like that either. That's not nice; it's needy and fake. I've never heard of a girl dropping a fellow because he conducted himself like a kind, caring person. . . unless she wasn't ready to be in a relationship with a kind, caring person and she realized she was likely to hurt him more by staying in it, and thus not a kind, caring, healthy person herself. I have also known men who've done this too.

 

Almost all the happily married men I know are kind. I never know what to do with the word "Nice." The problem with this word is that it has two meanings; one is kind and one is fine. So, when someone says, "Oh, he's a nice guy/gal," they are likely saying "fine/okay/etc" ---which, no, is not what you want for a relationship, but that doesn't mean their kindness had anything to do with the issue. The issue was a lack of interest, attraction, and compatibility (and possibly emotional health), like it always is.

 

ahhh my official take on the too nice/too much of a dick thing is being too much of a dick is better only in so much that being too nice won't work AT ALL so being a dick will be better by default. Treating women poorly does actually work quite well to create attraction. There's one PUA who believes pretty firmly in being a dick/using the same tactics girls use on us when we start dating back on them. Examples being make plans with a girl and cancelling without a legit reason/etc. You'll probably think this is a really mean thing to do - until you realize that women do this to men ALL THE TIME.

 

That said I don't agree with that style and neither would I EVER follow it without some reason. I definitely wouldn't want a relationship based on that bull****. But I am certain if I looked hard enough there'd be more examples of being more of a dick works way better than being nice. The dick can be called a "badboy"... the "nice guy" is marriage material...which by the way isn't what guys are going for.

 

And using guys who are married as good examples of models to follow is lol. They aren't in the dating scene - no offense intended although I'm sure some will be taken.

[Mad Max]

To sum it up, the way you act results in the type of girl you attract. By being a good guy(being nice, but not taking any BS), you will attract a female with self-worth and high self-esteem. If you treat a girl like crap thinking she'll stick like mud, you'll attract a female with no self-esteem.

[dispatch3d]

Girls, yes. Women, no. Explain to me how I'm nice and don't have any problems. Why do you think that is?

 

My bad I didn't realize you were such a master.

[skydiveaddict]

I can't lie with a strraight face and my friends and family would never want to be in so something like this even if I did try. I can't do that. No one is interested in introducing me to dating prospects either.

 

I'm working out, but it will be years before I can call myself athletic and toned or whatever. I know I'm gone from 98% of women immediately if they find out my lack of dating history and most of the other 2% would question me intensely and I'm crumble under the stress of it.

 

 

That's not true. three months of hard training and you can be there, but you must commit yourself

[Mad Max]

My bad I didn't realize you were such a master.

 

 

Maybe it's because I don't play games and know how to spot a female with low self-esteem. This PUA stuff works on those with low self-esteem.

[Mad Max]

If you're whatever the heck I and several other posters on this forum are, you'll attract no one at all. I don't think any of us are the worst of the worst people, but that's the result we get. Nothing at all.

 

 

I'm nothing like you and several others because I have a positive attitude and will stand up for what I believe in, even if it's not popular. I don't whine how being nice doesn't work and being an ass makes you a ladies man.

[dispatch3d]

lol madmax. If what you're doing works for you stick to it. I wouldn't suggest anyone else follows it. I also wouldn't read pickup material if I were you cause you really aren't congruent with most of it.

[Mad Max]

lol madmax. If what you're doing works for you stick to it. I wouldn't suggest anyone else follows it. I also wouldn't read pickup material if I were you cause you really aren't congruent with most of it.

 

 

PUA is only good if you're looking for a one night stand. It is absolutely useless if you want a relationship. Suggesting to others to treat women like crap is horrible advice because no self-respecting woman is going to put up with it. If I saw a chick that had low self-esteem, I could treat her horribly and likely land her. But, that's not me. I'm better than that and any girl that responds to being treated poorly is not worth my time.

[Pyro]

PUA is only good if you're looking for a one night stand. It is absolutely useless if you want a relationship. Suggesting to others to treat women like crap is horrible advice because no self-respecting woman is going to put up with it. If I saw a chick that had low self-esteem, I could treat her horribly and likely land her. But, that's not me. I'm better than that and any girl that responds to being treated poorly is not worth my time.

 

IMO those who advocate treating women like crap are afraid to be themselves around women because A) it doesn't work or B) they don't have the confidence to do it. Regardless its something that they need to improve on and that will happen through time and experience.

 

Once upon a time I was a "nice guy" meaning I was a pushover who lacked confidence but I was able to fix that and I accomplished it without ever having to resort to abusing someone because in a way you are abusing someone if you treat them like crap.

[dispatch3d]

PUA is only good if you're looking for a one night stand. It is absolutely useless if you want a relationship. Suggesting to others to treat women like crap is horrible advice because no self-respecting woman is going to put up with it. If I saw a chick that had low self-esteem, I could treat her horribly and likely land her. But, that's not me. I'm better than that and any girl that responds to being treated poorly is not worth my time.

 

lol dude pua material is used for multiple-long-term-relationships, getting just a long term relationship, single night lays, you name it. This is seriously the last post I'm responding to from you though cause I can tell you are very out to lunch on the whole thing. Not that this is a bad thing. Feel free to take the old fashioned approach doesn't matter to me. Please don't read up on it thats all or try to apply anything you read...

[dispatch3d]

IMO those who advocate treating women like crap are afraid to be themselves around women because A) it doesn't work or B) they don't have the confidence to do it. Regardless its something that they need to improve on and that will happen through time and experience.

 

Once upon a time I was a "nice guy" meaning I was a pushover who lacked confidence but I was able to fix that and I accomplished it without ever having to resort to abusing someone because in a way you are abusing someone if you treat them like crap.

 

Obviously don't abuse women... you are taking things to an extreme. If a guy is too nice he'd definitely do better being less nice - doing less **** for girls until they truly deserve the nice **** they give them.

[Mad Max]

IMO those who advocate treating women like crap are afraid to be themselves around women because A) it doesn't work or B) they don't have the confidence to do it. Regardless its something that they need to improve on and that will happen through time and experience.

 

Once upon a time I was a "nice guy" meaning I was a pushover who lacked confidence but I was able to fix that and I accomplished it without ever having to resort to abusing someone because in a way you are abusing someone if you treat them like crap.

 

 

You have to be confident in who you are. I'm confident in who I am. I would describe my personality as "What you see is what you get". Treat people the way you would like to be treated. If you treat a woman like crap from the start, she won't respect you. Don't expect her to treat you well if you can't do the same.

 

 

And being nice is different from being a "nice guy", but obviously you know the difference.

[Mad Max]

lol dude pua material is used for multiple-long-term-relationships, getting just a long term relationship, single night lays, you name it. This is seriously the last post I'm responding to from you though cause I can tell you are very out to lunch on the whole thing. Not that this is a bad thing. Feel free to take the old fashioned approach doesn't matter to me. Please don't read up on it thats all or try to apply anything you read...

 

 

You won't respond because you lost the debate. I was able to back up my thoughts and experiences and you've run out of ammunition. Keep doing what you're doing. Let me know if it works.

 

 

Obviously don't abuse women... you are taking things to an extreme. If a guy is too nice he'd definitely do better being less nice - doing less **** for girls until they truly deserve the nice **** they give them.

 

 

You're referring to the "nice guy". "Nice guys" are not nice. They are needy and clingy. You can be nice without being needy and clingy. If you have a backbone, you're halfway there.

[zengirl]

I know if I disagree she will be angry, so dies that make me a creep for agreeing?

 

People get mad when I disagree with them but I'm a creep when I agree with them. I can't win.

 

This really depends. I mean, I don't argue with people much in my day-to-day life and I certainly let some things drop, because that's what you do to get along in the world. I'm not saying that if a girl says, "I like to listen to Coldplay," that you should say, "Their music sucks!" even if you think so. But you needn't say, "Yeah, they're great." You can assert your own ideas and opinions, without demeaning the ideas of others.

 

If someone asks you your opinion, I say always give it honestly (but tactfully when tact is required). Most women won't get angry that a fellow disagrees with her, unless he's got some pretty different values than her. . . at which point they aren't a compatible match anyway.

 

"Go along to get along" can be okay, and I see it work out for people, but it can be taken to extremes. I, personally, find people who don't particularly seem to like or dislike anything boring: i.e. They can always do whatever, eat whatever, etc. That said, I also find ridiculously picky or controlling people who must direct all people to what they like to do equally tedious. Really, it's a balance of having interests, ideas, and feelings, and asserting them while allowing others to do do the same. That sounds long when I type it, but it's all really natural once you get used to doing it. Most people learn to do it without even thinking about it.

 

The dick can be called a "badboy"... the "nice guy" is marriage material...which by the way isn't what guys are going for.

 

And using guys who are married as good examples of models to follow is lol. They aren't in the dating scene - no offense intended although I'm sure some will be taken.

 

They successfully got what they wanted out of the dating scene, and thus are happily married. They won. These men would say this about themselves as well.

 

Some men actually DO want to be married----at least once they find someone they like well enough to marry (I'm not talking about a space filler, but they hope to find a real partner and are dating partially to that end). And those are the only men I'd date. So, what attracts the girls who'd date fellows who don't want to ever be married. . . well, I'd say treating them like crap might be something that works, because those women are obviously determined to hit their head against some kind of all. (Unless it just so happens she doesn't want to be married herself. I do believe two emotionally healthy adults can not want to have families or be married, but that's a minority that needs even stronger communication to find healthy long-term partners.) But, it's as Mad Max says, the PUA crap you're discussing isn't designed for meaningful relationships.

 

To sum it up, the way you act results in the type of girl you attract. By being a good guy(being nice, but not taking any BS), you will attract a female with self-worth and high self-esteem. If you treat a girl like crap thinking she'll stick like mud, you'll attract a female with no self-esteem.

 

Yes. Precisely.

 

IMO those who advocate treating women like crap are afraid to be themselves around women because A) it doesn't work or B) they don't have the confidence to do it. Regardless its something that they need to improve on and that will happen through time and experience.

 

Once upon a time I was a "nice guy" meaning I was a pushover who lacked confidence but I was able to fix that and I accomplished it without ever having to resort to abusing someone because in a way you are abusing someone if you treat them like crap.

 

Yes, I think this is exactly it. I suppose it's scary for people to be assertive and themselves sometimes. There really isn't any other way to go about being happy that I can see.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Provided that they are also obese women, then the answer to your question would be "yes."

lmao you really need to work on that anger towards overweight people

 

The women is right in not wanting a sexual relationship at work and you don't sound like you want any thing more then a ONS with her anyways? So why put both your jobs at risk for just that in such economicly challenged times?

 

Isent there a bar/club you can go to near by for a good old fashioned hook up or theres always the internet...

[dispatch3d]

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore. They aren't trying to get with new girls or anything - they are trying to manage their own current relationship. If I wanted relationship advice I'd go to them. If I wanted dating advice I definitely wouldn't.

 

as a blanket statement being a dick is going to work way better than being super nice. And if being yourself doesn't work at all I would definitely encourage guys to be less giving to girls without any due reason/being more of a "dick" if you want to call it that.

 

Saying PUA stuff doesn't work on x is complete fabrication from you guys. You don't use the stuff, how the hell would you know? Pickup works better on people with high self esteem. I'm actually very certain it will work even better on the hotter girls than the more average or mundane looking. Mostly saying this from personal experience....

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

[Pyro]

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore. They aren't trying to get with new girls or anything - they are trying to manage their own current relationship. If I wanted relationship advice I'd go to them. If I wanted dating advice I definitely wouldn't.

 

as a blanket statement being a dick is going to work way better than being super nice. And if being yourself doesn't work at all I would definitely encourage guys to be less giving to girls without any due reason/being more of a "dick" if you want to call it that.

 

Saying PUA stuff doesn't work on x is complete fabrication from you guys. You don't use the stuff, how the hell would you know? Pickup works better on people with high self esteem. I'm actually very certain it will work even better on the hotter girls than the more average or mundane looking. Mostly saying this from personal experience....

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

 

but married people have been there before and obviously they have had success.

 

Less giving can mean that the guy has grown a spine and learned not to be a pushover.

 

The guys on here who are saying to use that advice are single and I never hear about them being with a girl.

[Mad Max]

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore. They aren't trying to get with new girls or anything - they are trying to manage their own current relationship. If I wanted relationship advice I'd go to them. If I wanted dating advice I definitely wouldn't.

 

 

Since they're married, they had to date for some time. They have experience.

 

 

as a blanket statement being a dick is going to work way better than being super nice. And if being yourself doesn't work at all I would definitely encourage guys to be less giving to girls without any due reason/being more of a "dick" if you want to call it that.

 

 

There's a middle ground, you know. Being super nice won't work, just as being a dick won't work. But, super nice translates to pushover.

 

 

Saying PUA stuff doesn't work on x is complete fabrication from you guys. You don't use the stuff, how the hell would you know? Pickup works better on people with high self esteem. I'm actually very certain it will work even better on the hotter girls than the more average or mundane looking. Mostly saying this from personal experience....

 

 

I've seen it first hand. It's for initial attraction. Pickup works better on those with high self-esteem? Laughable. Those with half a brain and self-esteem can see right through a PUA. It probably would work on hot women, but many hot women lack self-esteem and are used to being hit on constantly. PUA's are good with initial attraction, but not for relationships.

 

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

 

 

I've seen enough of it to know how it works. If it's so great, become a PUA.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

 

What the heck is a PUA? anyways..

[zengirl]

being married changed the dynamic cooomplleettellly. That's the reason I would never asked a married person for dating advice. They aren't in that frame of mind anymore. They aren't trying to get with new girls or anything - they are trying to manage their own current relationship. If I wanted relationship advice I'd go to them. If I wanted dating advice I definitely wouldn't.

 

as a blanket statement being a dick is going to work way better than being super nice. And if being yourself doesn't work at all I would definitely encourage guys to be less giving to girls without any due reason/being more of a "dick" if you want to call it that.

 

Saying PUA stuff doesn't work on x is complete fabrication from you guys. You don't use the stuff, how the hell would you know? Pickup works better on people with high self esteem. I'm actually very certain it will work even better on the hotter girls than the more average or mundane looking. Mostly saying this from personal experience....

 

which would be exactly why I don't really care what you think of PUA crap. You have 0 experience with it.

 

If you want dating to lead to a relationship, then dating advice is relationship advice. The people who aren't in relationships/married are not currently succeeding, for whatever reason. (Or they're seeking something different. But I addressed that.) Now, that could be as simple as a "time out" in between relationships, or it could be a series of long strike-outs. But the people in happy relationships and marriages, they did something right in dating to get there.

 

You're missing the point about married people. Unless they have some sort of weird mail-order situation, everyone who was married once dated, and successfully stopped dating. Dating is a process, and marriage is its conclusion. I'm not talking about who they are SOLELY in the marriage. I knew most of these kind men when they were dating too and saw them marry their wives (You don't generally make male friends after they're married, if you're a single gal, as a rule; not that I'm against it, but it just is a pretty rare phenomenon for various, understandable reasons). They didn't just suddenly start being kind after they got married.

 

Well, I have loads of experience with PUA crap. . . rejecting the fellows who follow it! But I know that no man immersed in it is going to admit that women have opinions that could ever possibly help them.