Els Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Please, lets not talk about morbidly obese people here. Everyone agrees with the bottom line - obesity, as defined by a BMI > 30, is definitely unhealthy. Yes, you guys don't have to get all defensive. We get that you think a size zero with protruding bones isn't sexy, either. What I am talking about, is the standard that people DO consider attractive. Not size zero, but not a normal healthy weight either. I'm talking Megan Fox. I'm talking Posh Spice. You get the idea. Personal story: I used to have a BMI of 18 or so back in my teens. Not due to any dieting or such - just high metabolism, I suppose, and possibly a really low allowance that led to me eating bread for lunch if I wanted to buy anything. Lots of people said I had a nice, slim figure. Nobody said anything about being underweight (for the uninitiated, a BMI of 18.5 - 24.9 is medically considered the 'normal' healthy range). College came, I could afford to eat better, and I discovered a passion for food. Not binging on daily soda and fries, but simply the occasional fillet mignon in red wine, chocolate fondue with ice cream, etc. My weight rose to 115 lbs. BMI was 21. You wouldn't believe the sort of response I got. My parents became ballistically obsessed about my weight, and insisted on weighing me every week before I left the country. Relatives and even friends made sidelong remarks such as, "Oh, you put on weight." "Pst, E's mom, isn't your daughter a little chubby now?" "Wow, you really filled up, eh?" No more compliments. I felt sad for a while, and then realized, what the heck. I'm in the LOWER PART of the healthy BMI range, and yet to people, this isn't attractive. If a BMI of 21 is 'chubby' to some people, I shudder to think what they will consider me if I was right in the middle of the healthy range. Spare me crap about muscle mass and fat mass. The BMI was created to cater to normal people with normal muscle and fat %, not to athletes, who have their own scale. Yes, it isn't perfectly accurate, but it's a sufficiently good gauge as to whether or not someone's weight is affecting their health negatively. Fortunately my bf, a medical practitioner, happily believes that as long as I'm below 25, all's good. Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why?
bayouboi Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I'm not sure what you're looking for in the form of a response so how about I give you a "There, there..."
You Go Girl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 There are very skinny heroin addicts, alcoholics, pill addicts, heavy smokers, etc. Skinny is no measure of healthy.
Author Els Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 A response in the form of an opinion would be most welcome. This post mainly derived from http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t241200/ , which I did not wish to derail further.
pandagirl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 E, you're Asian, right? Asian families (especially the women!) are known for being quite... "blunt" with their criticisms. Growing up, I was not a petite, little girl. And my family would make comments about it all the time. Not really my mom and dad, but my immediate family. Like, "oh, she's a big girl!" or "She's husky/big boned," etc. I think those comments really played a factor in me having low self-esteem in my teen years. My highest weight was 145, and I'm only 5'3". Now, I've been the same weight for the last 10+ years. I am always in the 115-120 range, no matter what I do. Most people say I'm thin or "little," but my family just says I look healthy.
Phateless Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Please, lets not talk about morbidly obese people here. Everyone agrees with the bottom line - obesity, as defined by a BMI > 30, is definitely unhealthy. Yes, you guys don't have to get all defensive. We get that you think a size zero with protruding bones isn't sexy, either. What I am talking about, is the standard that people DO consider attractive. Not size zero, but not a normal healthy weight either. I'm talking Megan Fox. I'm talking Posh Spice. You get the idea. Personal story: I used to have a BMI of 18 or so back in my teens. Not due to any dieting or such - just high metabolism, I suppose, and possibly a really low allowance that led to me eating bread for lunch if I wanted to buy anything. Lots of people said I had a nice, slim figure. Nobody said anything about being underweight (for the uninitiated, a BMI of 18.5 - 24.9 is medically considered the 'normal' healthy range). College came, I could afford to eat better, and I discovered a passion for food. Not binging on daily soda and fries, but simply the occasional fillet mignon in red wine, chocolate fondue with ice cream, etc. My weight rose to 115 lbs. BMI was 21. You wouldn't believe the sort of response I got. My parents became ballistically obsessed about my weight, and insisted on weighing me every week before I left the country. Relatives and even friends made sidelong remarks such as, "Oh, you put on weight." "Pst, E's mom, isn't your daughter a little chubby now?" "Wow, you really filled up, eh?" No more compliments. I felt sad for a while, and then realized, what the heck. I'm in the LOWER PART of the healthy BMI range, and yet to people, this isn't attractive. If a BMI of 21 is 'chubby' to some people, I shudder to think what they will consider me if I was right in the middle of the healthy range. Spare me crap about muscle mass and fat mass. The BMI was created to cater to normal people with normal muscle and fat %, not to athletes, who have their own scale. Yes, it isn't perfectly accurate, but it's a sufficiently good gauge as to whether or not someone's weight is affecting their health negatively. Fortunately my bf, a medical practitioner, happily believes that as long as I'm below 25, all's good. Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why? 5' 3" and 115-125 lbs is what I consider the perfect body on a woman. I think those people are psycho to call you chubby.
nddb Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I was going to chime in and say that those people are nuts. But if you are Asian, you are on a different bell curve statistically speaking, and I think you know that. May be that sounds unfair but it is what it is. My wife (also Asian) of 20 years gained less than 10lbs after 2 kids and her family (sisters/brothers) are pretty blunt about teasing her with her weight gain. She's 5'2 and still less than 120lbs even on her heaviest day. I personally like her now even more since there is more softness but believe you me, her sisters are brutal in a funny way. She takes it all in stride though. Family has a special pass and she allows them to tease her and in some ways seems to find it funny and the sisters and mom egg each other on when we have a family reunion. Woe be to me or anyone outside of the family who makes such a comment. But her own sisters and parents, she just laugh them off and never showed that it bothered her in the least.
a_woman Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 5' 3" and 115-125 lbs is what I consider the perfect body on a woman. I think those people are psycho to call you chubby. Absolutely. I think OP your family are intolerant of change. If you are South Asian, the women are often tiny by Western standards. Wouldn't worry about it.
phineas Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I had no idea what a BMI of 30 even looks like on either man or woman. So I googled. Found some photographic info. http://www.naturalphysiques.com/cms/index.php?itemid=144 http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=31392 It looks to me that I am around 30%. maybe a tad under. I've been loosing fat & gaining some muscle at a steady pace so i'm not too worried right now. I want to keep the muscle mass I built so slow & steady wins that race. It looks to me that a BMI of 15% on guys would probably be enough to be considered in shape. The guys without any muscles with low BMI look sickly & gaunt to me.
quankanne Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 good heavens, the guy at 210 looks like a total yum-yum, with just enough meat on him to cuddle. Otherwise, he looked too damn skinny in the "improved body" photos. Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why? because they're prejudiced when it comes to weight and size, all because we're bombarded by images of what's supposed to be "perfect" ... sorry, but stick figures with big balloon heads and E.T. bellies aren't attractive, and I'll often comment "go drink a damn milkshake, girl, you look like crap" because I can see their skeletons, and that's just UGLY. And I don't say that because I'm heavy, but because I know that they're the extreme end of the spectrum from me, and neither looks good. you want my ideal of a gorgeous woman? Look at Cindy Crawford (long and lanky, but with meat on her bones in a healthy way) or Salma Hayak and Scarlett Johansen – beautiful, gorgeous curves. Women are supposed to have flesh on their bones, not look like damn skeletons. and why they don't get it is beyond me ... yes, being unhealthily overweight is a serious thing, but a woman who is a size 10 or 12 doesn't exactly look like a cow, either.
TheBigQuestion Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 good heavens, the guy at 210 looks like a total yum-yum, with just enough meat on him to cuddle. Otherwise, he looked too damn skinny in the "improved body" photos. Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why? because they're prejudiced when it comes to weight and size, all because we're bombarded by images of what's supposed to be "perfect" ... sorry, but stick figures with big balloon heads and E.T. bellies aren't attractive, and I'll often comment "go drink a damn milkshake, girl, you look like crap" because I can see their skeletons, and that's just UGLY. And I don't say that because I'm heavy, but because I know that they're the extreme end of the spectrum from me, and neither looks good. you want my ideal of a gorgeous woman? Look at Cindy Crawford (long and lanky, but with meat on her bones in a healthy way) or Salma Hayak and Scarlett Johansen – beautiful, gorgeous curves. Women are supposed to have flesh on their bones, not look like damn skeletons. and why they don't get it is beyond me ... yes, being unhealthily overweight is a serious thing, but a woman who is a size 10 or 12 doesn't exactly look like a cow, either. The problem is a lot of people are going to tell you that Scarlett Johansson and Salma Hayek are also extremely unattainable and unrealistic body types because they're skinny BUT have great curves.
yah Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I think women criticize themselves more than men. I'm female btw.
quankanne Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I wouldn't call either of them skinny – more like curvy, with realistic curves at that. skinny is any given starlet you can think of, like the Olsen twins or Courtney Cox or even Cameron Diaz. There isn't much variation in their bust to waist to hip proportions. Curvy women have definite variation in their BWH proportions ... and look damn good because of it.
Phateless Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 The problem is a lot of people are going to tell you that Scarlett Johansson and Salma Hayek are also extremely unattainable and unrealistic body types because they're skinny BUT have great curves. What about Drew Berrymore? She's a cutie!
TheBigQuestion Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I wouldn't call either of them skinny – more like curvy, with realistic curves at that. skinny is any given starlet you can think of, like the Olsen twins or Courtney Cox or even Cameron Diaz. There isn't much variation in their bust to waist to hip proportions. Curvy women have definite variation in their BWH proportions ... and look damn good because of it. I agree. I think that family members tend to be the harshest on women when they "put on weight." Why this is, I don't know. Maybe because they see a person putting on any weight as a slippery slope to being genuinely overweight/obese? I mean, one doesn't turn into a blimp overnight. However, this obviously does not excuse being unnecessarily nasty.
Ruby Slippers Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 These images of hyper thin as hot are perpetuated by the media and ad industry, to sell ****. Many people don't think for themselves, so they buy it. The more unattainable the ideal is, the more **** people will buy to try to reach it.
brainygirl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) Posted a reply in the wrong thread, that's what I get for multitasking. OP - I don't think you have anything to worry about, especially if your partner likes you and you are comfortable. Sometimes families are the worst about being critical. Edited August 10, 2010 by brainygirl
djhall Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why? Because "it isn't healthy" sounds a lot better than "you need to change your body to meet my personal preferences." Excluding, as you pointed out in the OP, circumstances where people truly are morbidly obese.
Sphere Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 What about Drew Berrymore? She's a cutie! Minus the herpes. I was called overweight and fat in school when I was 5'6 and 130 lbs because I had a bit of a stomach back then. Now, I've toned up and the same people are saying I'm stick thin, when I'm not. I'm 5'8 and I weight 155 lbs and I'm well defined. Idiots will be idiots, they're best ignored. My stance on weight is that I take care of my body and I cannot be with someone who doesn't take care of themself. Not because it's anything to do with medical reasons (though that's probably a factor for a lot of people), but because I cannot be around people who mutiliate their bodies in such a horrendous way. Fat is unattractive at any age, it seems that standards have slipped in Western Society. When my mother was a small girl the highest dress size they did was a 14, now they cater for women with dress sizes exceeding 18. It's absolutely wrong, which is why I am in favour of taxation on fast food and snacks. In Britain, we pay 20% vat on a lot of goods, for fast food, I'd like to see that tax rise from 20% to 40%. It's the only way to stop this trend across the Western World that fat is acceptable. It isn't acceptable, eventually fat people become a bain on society, people who drain vital resources such as a hospital bed, doctor appointment slots and money.
nddb Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 My stance on weight is that I take care of my body and I cannot be with someone who doesn't take care of themself. Not because it's anything to do with medical reasons (though that's probably a factor for a lot of people), but because I cannot be around people who mutiliate their bodies in such a horrendous way. Fat is unattractive at any age, it seems that standards have slipped in Western Society. When my mother was a small girl the highest dress size they did was a 14, now they cater for women with dress sizes exceeding 18. It's absolutely wrong, which is why I am in favour of taxation on fast food and snacks. In Britain, we pay 20% vat on a lot of goods, for fast food, I'd like to see that tax rise from 20% to 40%. It's the only way to stop this trend across the Western World that fat is acceptable. It isn't acceptable, eventually fat people become a bain on society, people who drain vital resources such as a hospital bed, doctor appointment slots and money. ding ding ding! Say it like it is.
Sphere Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 ding ding ding! Say it like it is. My generation and the younger ones are estimated to die out before our parents, that's how serious things have gotten where I live. Now, this could be hyperbole, it wouldn't surprise me, but in the last fourteen years I have noticed that more people are piling on the pounds, it's becoming a Western epidemic it really is. I see fat children, no less than six, no older than eleven and their parents are buying them fast food, these parents should be imprisoned for child abuse. Our Government says it is child abuse to smoke and drink alcohol around children, yet doesn't condemn fast food restaurants like McDonald's who target children with "Happy Meals". Yet this is because McDonald's, Burger King and KFC are billion pound corporations who "contribute overwhelmingly to our service economy, while at the same time adding more strain to our healthcare system". It's gonna get to the stage where complusory Army Fitness Boot Camps are going to be needed to tackle this horrendous disease that seems to be consuming everyone and anyone. Sorry, I'm ranting, but this whole "It's okay to be fat, you're still beautiful facade makes me angry.
that girl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 What I am talking about, is the standard that people DO consider attractive. Not size zero, but not a normal healthy weight either. I'm talking Megan Fox. I'm talking Posh Spice. I would guess that both of these women could fit into a size zero. I have a hard time believing they wear a US4. My stance on weight is that I take care of my body and I cannot be with someone who doesn't take care of themself. Not because it's anything to do with medical reasons (though that's probably a factor for a lot of people), but because I cannot be around people who mutiliate their bodies in such a horrendous way. The problem is, you can't tell how healthy someone is by their weight. There are people who exercise regularly and eat a reasonable diet yet have high BMIs. I am not saying this is the norm, but you can't tell how healthy someone is by looking at them. If you could, bulimics would have stickers on their foreheads. Fat is unattractive at any age, it seems that standards have slipped in Western Society. When my mother was a small girl the highest dress size they did was a 14, now they cater for women with dress sizes exceeding 18. It's absolutely wrong, which is why I am in favour of taxation on fast food and snacks. Would you rather the fat people go around naked? And really a UK16 (a US12) and a UK18 (US14) is not enormous. Tall women and women with unusually large breasts or butts might need to buy these sizes while still being in the healthy weight range. This is about your aesthetic standards rather than health.
Sphere Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 So a man with a beer belly and a woman with a muffin top are perfectly normal and healthy? Please...
InceptorsRule Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why? No one ever imposed anything on you hon.
that girl Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 So a man with a beer belly and a woman with a muffin top are perfectly normal and healthy? Please... First off, a muffin top has a lot to do with how tight pants are and where the rise is. But yes, someone can be medically healthy without looking like a swimsuit model. A 5'5" woman is considered healthy if her weight is between 112 and 149. A 6'2" man is considered healthy if his weight is between 144 and 194. Those are big ranges and will vary based on muscle mass, build and general proportions. Obesity is a huge health problem, but it really isn't as simple as muffin top = unhealthy.
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